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Starfisher :
Nope. My purpose is to tell people lke you to stop being gullible to shiny things. But it turns out that you are just interested in shifting the topic of the conversation so that you back off from your original ethusiastic defense of supporting crackpot theories without conceding too much.
Nope. My purpose is to tell people lke you to stop being gullible to shiny things. But it turns out that you are just interested in shifting the topic of the conversation so that you back off from your original ethusiastic defense of supporting crackpot theories without conceding too much.
Oh. Yes, you beat me in the argument. I concede.
Given the time you dedicated to it, going so far as to value it at $100, I thought you might want to take five and note your falsification of Heim theory to someone active on the wikipedia page. They could note that it was false science, based on the clear mathematical evidence, and then you'd have prevented a whole bunch of people from being gullible to this particular shiny thing.
Or are you, like me, only really interested in this particular internet pissing match? ;P
Given the time you dedicated to it, going so far as to value it at $100, I thought you might want to take five and note your falsification of Heim theory to someone active on the wikipedia page. They could note that it was false science, based on the clear mathematical evidence, and then you'd have prevented a whole bunch of people from being gullible to this particular shiny thing.
Or are you, like me, only really interested in this particular internet pissing match? ;P
I'm lacking the patience to thoroughly read everything in this thread, so I'll just reply to the non-electronic computers post.
That's actually possible i think. Isn't there a way to counteract external magnetic force with another one of the opposite polarity or something? Wouldn't that cancel it out inside the ship and leave the electronics in tact? Only problem i see is if one of those counters fails. ;)
That's actually possible i think. Isn't there a way to counteract external magnetic force with another one of the opposite polarity or something? Wouldn't that cancel it out inside the ship and leave the electronics in tact? Only problem i see is if one of those counters fails. ;)
well, my thinking was the best bet would be opticle computers. there are curently opticle conducters, data storage, and semi-condunctors but development has been slow in part because opticle computers are so far behinde electronic ones that there are virtualy no advantages to using them. also to the best of my knowledge there are no highly reusable opticle datastorage mediums (RAM) presently developed.
anyway, i don't know too much about magnetic fields but the description of how the hyperdrive was supposed to work made me think that if the field were cancled out incide the ship or the ship were shielded from the field there might be a posability of the engin not working or the ship jumps but the computer room remains behinde, that sort of thing. (admitedly this is based on the very sort of "popular sceince/metaphysicle bunk" that Shapenaji, was refitung a couple posts ago.
anyway, i don't know too much about magnetic fields but the description of how the hyperdrive was supposed to work made me think that if the field were cancled out incide the ship or the ship were shielded from the field there might be a posability of the engin not working or the ship jumps but the computer room remains behinde, that sort of thing. (admitedly this is based on the very sort of "popular sceince/metaphysicle bunk" that Shapenaji, was refitung a couple posts ago.
no, that's a reasonable question to ask. If this thing enters hyperdrive, what goes with it?
My hunch is that, IF it worked, the curvature would be such that it would curve all the area nearby, and that curvature is what generates the effect.
Furthermore, if this is not a device which uses curvature to accelerate, but rather to jump (as it suggests) between Earth and Mars, then I see no way to control where the extreme curvature that you create would lead you.
If on the other hand, the device is based on, say, creating curvature in FRONT of the ship, and then allowing matter to do the whole accelerating into the gravitational well thingy. Then I think that the question you raised is also no problem.
I'm not against an idea of manipulating curvature, I'm just a little skeptical of Heim's claims.
My problem is with theories/people that claim to be able to explain EVERYTHING with a new theory that they just mused on for about an hour.
My hunch is that, IF it worked, the curvature would be such that it would curve all the area nearby, and that curvature is what generates the effect.
Furthermore, if this is not a device which uses curvature to accelerate, but rather to jump (as it suggests) between Earth and Mars, then I see no way to control where the extreme curvature that you create would lead you.
If on the other hand, the device is based on, say, creating curvature in FRONT of the ship, and then allowing matter to do the whole accelerating into the gravitational well thingy. Then I think that the question you raised is also no problem.
I'm not against an idea of manipulating curvature, I'm just a little skeptical of Heim's claims.
My problem is with theories/people that claim to be able to explain EVERYTHING with a new theory that they just mused on for about an hour.
Mark Emerson is the equivalent of Heim in my field:
http://www.angelbase.com/
There are some people who praise his work and call it revolutionary. The rest of the world is just sorry for him.
http://www.angelbase.com/
There are some people who praise his work and call it revolutionary. The rest of the world is just sorry for him.
Got lazy there, can you summarize, he kept talking about angels, and I didn't really want to wade through to figure out what the hell his "computing paradigm" is?
"Meritocracy" is a code word for fascism.
the internet will not save social theory.
it is the most hierarchical invention in the history of mankind.
the internet will not save social theory.
it is the most hierarchical invention in the history of mankind.
“We already have the means to travel among the stars, but these technologies are locked up in black projects and it would take an act of God to ever get them out to benefit humanity….. anything you can imagine we already know how to do.”
---
Ben Rich,
former Head of the Lockheed Skunk Works,
in a lecture shortly before he died
---
Ben Rich,
former Head of the Lockheed Skunk Works,
in a lecture shortly before he died
Quite some statement, isn't it?
Isn't that from the SERPO project thing? Where they claim some government source is feeding them information about a bunch of people sent to an alien planet, information that has contradicted all sorts of observations of the planetary system in question?
There's WOW HOLY CRAP crackpot and You're wrong and won't admit it crackpot. SERPO is definately the former.
There's WOW HOLY CRAP crackpot and You're wrong and won't admit it crackpot. SERPO is definately the former.
That phrase I found online, do not remember where. It was confirmed by a friend of mine who worked at NASA for a looong time, from von Braun to Space Shuttle and ISS.
Do not know what serpo is?
Do not know what serpo is?
http://www.serpo.org/
First quote.
Take a browse through the site. It's funny until you realize how much effort has gone into it.
First quote.
Take a browse through the site. It's funny until you realize how much effort has gone into it.
wow indeed. pretty remarkable site. Wondering how much is true of it.
ooh sweet! i always like reading about crackpot conspiracy theories.
here is the original email btw:
------------------------------------
From: "William Hamilton" Astroxplorer@astrosciences.info
To: "Astrosciences" astrosciences@yahoogroups.com
CC: "ufodiscussion" ufodiscussion@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Welcome to Mars express: only a three hour trip
Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2006 06:05:02 -0800
from: http://news.scotsman.com/scitech.cfm?id=16902006
Welcome to Mars express: only a three hour trip
IAN JOHNSTON SCIENCE CORRESPONDENT
AN EXTRAORDINARY "hyperspace" engine that could make interstellar space travel a reality by flying into other dimensions is being investigated by the United States government.
The hypothetical device, which has been outlined in principle but is based on a controversial theory about the fabric of the universe, could potentially allow a spacecraft to travel to Mars in three hours and journey to a star 11 light years away in just 80 days, according to a report in today's New Scientist magazine.
The theoretical engine works by creating an intense magnetic field that, according to ideas first developed by the late scientist Burkhard Heim in the 1950s, would produce a gravitational field and result in thrust for a spacecraft.
Also, if a large enough magnetic field was created, the craft would slip into a different dimension, where the speed of light is faster, allowing incredible speeds to be reached. Switching off the magnetic field would result in the engine reappearing in our current dimension.
The US air force has expressed an interest in the idea and scientists working for the American Department of Energy - which has a device known as the Z Machine that could generate the kind of magnetic fields required to drive the engine - say they may carry out a test if the theory withstands further scrutiny.
Professor Jochem Hauser, one of the scientists who put forward the idea, told The Scotsman that if everything went well a working engine could be tested in about five years.
However, Prof Hauser, a physicist at the Applied Sciences University in Salzgitter, Germany, and a former chief of aerodynamics at the European Space Agency, cautioned it was based on a highly controversial theory that would require a significant change in the current understanding of the laws of physics.
"It would be amazing. I have been working on propulsion systems for quite a while and it would be the most amazing thing. The benefits would be almost unlimited," he said.
"But this thing is not around the corner; we first have to prove the basic science is correct and there are quite a few physicists who have a different opinion.
"It's our job to prove we are right and we are working on that."
He said the engine would enable spaceships to travel to different solar systems. "If the theory is correct then this is not science fiction, it is science fact," Prof Hauser said.
"NASA have contacted me and next week I'm going to see someone from the [US] air force to talk about it further, but it is at a very early stage. I think the best-case scenario would be within the next five years [to build a test device] if the technology works."
The US authorities' attention was attracted after Prof Hauser and an Austrian colleague, Walter Droscher, wrote a paper called "Guidelines for a space propulsion device based on Heim's quantum theory".
------------------------------------
From: "William Hamilton" Astroxplorer@astrosciences.info
To: "Astrosciences" astrosciences@yahoogroups.com
CC: "ufodiscussion" ufodiscussion@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Welcome to Mars express: only a three hour trip
Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2006 06:05:02 -0800
from: http://news.scotsman.com/scitech.cfm?id=16902006
Welcome to Mars express: only a three hour trip
IAN JOHNSTON SCIENCE CORRESPONDENT
AN EXTRAORDINARY "hyperspace" engine that could make interstellar space travel a reality by flying into other dimensions is being investigated by the United States government.
The hypothetical device, which has been outlined in principle but is based on a controversial theory about the fabric of the universe, could potentially allow a spacecraft to travel to Mars in three hours and journey to a star 11 light years away in just 80 days, according to a report in today's New Scientist magazine.
The theoretical engine works by creating an intense magnetic field that, according to ideas first developed by the late scientist Burkhard Heim in the 1950s, would produce a gravitational field and result in thrust for a spacecraft.
Also, if a large enough magnetic field was created, the craft would slip into a different dimension, where the speed of light is faster, allowing incredible speeds to be reached. Switching off the magnetic field would result in the engine reappearing in our current dimension.
The US air force has expressed an interest in the idea and scientists working for the American Department of Energy - which has a device known as the Z Machine that could generate the kind of magnetic fields required to drive the engine - say they may carry out a test if the theory withstands further scrutiny.
Professor Jochem Hauser, one of the scientists who put forward the idea, told The Scotsman that if everything went well a working engine could be tested in about five years.
However, Prof Hauser, a physicist at the Applied Sciences University in Salzgitter, Germany, and a former chief of aerodynamics at the European Space Agency, cautioned it was based on a highly controversial theory that would require a significant change in the current understanding of the laws of physics.
"It would be amazing. I have been working on propulsion systems for quite a while and it would be the most amazing thing. The benefits would be almost unlimited," he said.
"But this thing is not around the corner; we first have to prove the basic science is correct and there are quite a few physicists who have a different opinion.
"It's our job to prove we are right and we are working on that."
He said the engine would enable spaceships to travel to different solar systems. "If the theory is correct then this is not science fiction, it is science fact," Prof Hauser said.
"NASA have contacted me and next week I'm going to see someone from the [US] air force to talk about it further, but it is at a very early stage. I think the best-case scenario would be within the next five years [to build a test device] if the technology works."
The US authorities' attention was attracted after Prof Hauser and an Austrian colleague, Walter Droscher, wrote a paper called "Guidelines for a space propulsion device based on Heim's quantum theory".
This is the paper the article in the Scotsman talks about:
http://www.hpcc-space.de/publications/documents/aiaa2004-3700-a4.pdf
http://www.hpcc-space.de/publications/documents/aiaa2004-3700-a4.pdf
ahh great, thanks for that document.
Read the serpo site posted by Starfisher, very funny, the thing that strikes me is that its also presented as a very American affair(as always). ET always seems to go to the US (maybe for the hamburgers?)
Jamay Cheers
Jamay Cheers
*Asks someone to explain that paper in words he can understand.*