Forums » General
i don't know that all the ship models need replacing. i mean i actualy like the redone hog better than the rapter. granted some ships are cartoonish at best but i still think the prom, valk and hog, look prety good and chances are they only need tweeking to "update" them.
but also,
i think it isn't a mater of not understanding the development cycle (heck i've been on the "it's comming i sware, this stuff takes time" side of the divide before) but from the perspective of the userbase it does get frustrating when we hear promices of new interfaces, and new missions, etc. and don't actualy see the new content. we can take it on faith that it is beoing worked on but every time we hear "i'm still working on it it should be comming soon" it increasingly sounds like "we'll release it sometime beforwe the apocalypse... if we get around to it" and truthfully there isn't anything that can be done about that (asside from magicaly accelerate development beyond a pace that is humany possable).
but also,
i think it isn't a mater of not understanding the development cycle (heck i've been on the "it's comming i sware, this stuff takes time" side of the divide before) but from the perspective of the userbase it does get frustrating when we hear promices of new interfaces, and new missions, etc. and don't actualy see the new content. we can take it on faith that it is beoing worked on but every time we hear "i'm still working on it it should be comming soon" it increasingly sounds like "we'll release it sometime beforwe the apocalypse... if we get around to it" and truthfully there isn't anything that can be done about that (asside from magicaly accelerate development beyond a pace that is humany possable).
Heyas .... I'm a new player and figured I'd chime in with a fresh perspective.
The game looks neat. It's what I'd expect from a "space" game thus far visually. Nothing really blows me away (other than for ship explosions ... very neat) but nothing whole heartedly disappoints me either. The ships are neat and make me want to go grab the next License/Level so I can buy the next bigger badder ship/upgrade (at least in the short term).
Given how small this MMOG is, I'd have to say that I've been pleasantly surprised thus far.
Oh and I also work for a Fortune 100 company as one of their web developers and I can totally sympathize with how long things can take to develop in a production environment (3 years to redesign a website .... sheesh!).
Cheers!
-Kruunch
P.S. - This is obviously a very newbie perspective.
The game looks neat. It's what I'd expect from a "space" game thus far visually. Nothing really blows me away (other than for ship explosions ... very neat) but nothing whole heartedly disappoints me either. The ships are neat and make me want to go grab the next License/Level so I can buy the next bigger badder ship/upgrade (at least in the short term).
Given how small this MMOG is, I'd have to say that I've been pleasantly surprised thus far.
Oh and I also work for a Fortune 100 company as one of their web developers and I can totally sympathize with how long things can take to develop in a production environment (3 years to redesign a website .... sheesh!).
Cheers!
-Kruunch
P.S. - This is obviously a very newbie perspective.
Hey, newbie perspectives are welcome.
Overall, I'm impressed with the quality of the responses in this thread. They're all over over two lines long, and are generally well thought out.
Y'know, one thing that could possibly stave off the slavering masses is to post a few more UI screenshots, the ones you have minor usability questions about, and see if the rest of the community sees the same things you do, or misses them, or sees other things entirely.
Overall, I'm impressed with the quality of the responses in this thread. They're all over over two lines long, and are generally well thought out.
Y'know, one thing that could possibly stave off the slavering masses is to post a few more UI screenshots, the ones you have minor usability questions about, and see if the rest of the community sees the same things you do, or misses them, or sees other things entirely.
Well, to be honest, and I always try to be, I see no problem with the current directions things are taking, and to be honest? I kinda wish it would have been possible for them to happen months ago.
The hornet is crap, its a low poly triangle, if anything (im not debating its usabilty, of course it got made usable), and yeah, I did hear Inc. say it would eventually be replaced, well, some people like it (even if I, or indeed Inc. doesnt) so maybe a buffing is all it needs. I'm still waiting for hidden wormholes, and stuff like that to come back, and i'll be waiting for more stuff after that too, prolly :)
One thing that I have to say, besides my recent *bitching* is that no *game* or *project* has held my attention for over 2 years, besides Vendetta, that has got to mean something to you guys :)
The hornet is crap, its a low poly triangle, if anything (im not debating its usabilty, of course it got made usable), and yeah, I did hear Inc. say it would eventually be replaced, well, some people like it (even if I, or indeed Inc. doesnt) so maybe a buffing is all it needs. I'm still waiting for hidden wormholes, and stuff like that to come back, and i'll be waiting for more stuff after that too, prolly :)
One thing that I have to say, besides my recent *bitching* is that no *game* or *project* has held my attention for over 2 years, besides Vendetta, that has got to mean something to you guys :)
Thanks for the support everyone. I apologize for generalizing, and for coming off as a bit frustrated. I've been somewhat stressed of late.
Anyway, we'll see what happens with the whole ship replacement and everything else. If that does take place (and I do want to at least replace the EC-88, so the new user sees a more attractive ship upon trying the game).. I would like to basically make "redux" versions of the same ships. Reinterpretations of the same shape/design that make only minor changes to the distribution of mass and collidable area, and don't impact gameplay/balance very much. But, we'll see how that goes.
As for the whole "real ship HUD" thing, we decided not to do that a long time ago, but I'm not against having it as an optional look or whatever. Luis wanted to make something like that, so perhaps we will and just leave an option to disable it. It's not going to be my top priority, as I see a lot of other gameplay and graphical issues as being more important (and that sense of priority is often where people disagree with me.. but.. we do what we think is best overall, for the players, the game and the company).
Anyway, we'll see what happens with the whole ship replacement and everything else. If that does take place (and I do want to at least replace the EC-88, so the new user sees a more attractive ship upon trying the game).. I would like to basically make "redux" versions of the same ships. Reinterpretations of the same shape/design that make only minor changes to the distribution of mass and collidable area, and don't impact gameplay/balance very much. But, we'll see how that goes.
As for the whole "real ship HUD" thing, we decided not to do that a long time ago, but I'm not against having it as an optional look or whatever. Luis wanted to make something like that, so perhaps we will and just leave an option to disable it. It's not going to be my top priority, as I see a lot of other gameplay and graphical issues as being more important (and that sense of priority is often where people disagree with me.. but.. we do what we think is best overall, for the players, the game and the company).
if you made the hog look even more like the Viper Mark VII than it already does id be ok with that ;)
No problem Incarnate, What might be a good idea is to rebuild the ships in an order from the start of the players time in game to the end.
Starting with the serveral versions of the ec-88 which do need a look improvement, and maybe even an eventual remodeling of the design.
Next would be the wraith, or the vulture, both which look kinda simple and cartoonie to a certain extent. I think all that really is needed here is re-texturing, and maybe some lightly detailing the vulture and wraith using bump mapping.
Basically if it were me I would build the ships in order of apperance to new players, Not rebuilding the valk or other high level ships which only the current user base really use's. overall I think it would be a good thing to redo all the ships like the warthog and the raptor/ new cap ship. Maybe even a slightly more realistic texturing on the stations, maybe just dirtying them up alittle bit.
I left Vendetta nearly 6 months ago and due to the new warthog and ship remakes, I came back. Your heading in the right direction, Hopefully in two years you'll be whiping the ass out of eve-online and World of warcraft. :) Would be nice to see vendetta-online killing the competition.
Starting with the serveral versions of the ec-88 which do need a look improvement, and maybe even an eventual remodeling of the design.
Next would be the wraith, or the vulture, both which look kinda simple and cartoonie to a certain extent. I think all that really is needed here is re-texturing, and maybe some lightly detailing the vulture and wraith using bump mapping.
Basically if it were me I would build the ships in order of apperance to new players, Not rebuilding the valk or other high level ships which only the current user base really use's. overall I think it would be a good thing to redo all the ships like the warthog and the raptor/ new cap ship. Maybe even a slightly more realistic texturing on the stations, maybe just dirtying them up alittle bit.
I left Vendetta nearly 6 months ago and due to the new warthog and ship remakes, I came back. Your heading in the right direction, Hopefully in two years you'll be whiping the ass out of eve-online and World of warcraft. :) Would be nice to see vendetta-online killing the competition.
Just in case you're looking for possible revamp suggestions...
First: PLEASE! OH PLEASE! Keep the ec-88's bus form as an option! It's cute like a VW van... please?
2nd: I would say the Cent is more in need of a revamp than the Vult...
3rd: Hornet?!?! There IS a way to make it cooler...
4th: A little bit of Sharpening on almost everything... I think the Cent could benefit from this the most. The Hog looks REALLY nice right now... as does the Prom.
5th: I trust the judgement of the Devs... considering that Fun is one of their main goals.
First: PLEASE! OH PLEASE! Keep the ec-88's bus form as an option! It's cute like a VW van... please?
2nd: I would say the Cent is more in need of a revamp than the Vult...
3rd: Hornet?!?! There IS a way to make it cooler...
4th: A little bit of Sharpening on almost everything... I think the Cent could benefit from this the most. The Hog looks REALLY nice right now... as does the Prom.
5th: I trust the judgement of the Devs... considering that Fun is one of their main goals.
Oh noooooooooooooes! Incarnate said "shape"... ack!
really all that needs to be done is for the devs to literally throw some browns into the texture files.
Hey incarnate, in all honesty, I can empathize with you on the feeling frustrated part.. Please dont get to frustrated, however, just follow the old adage of "Don't let it get under your skin" and ignore the naysayers. You do whatever it is you wish with -your- game, as long as there is progress, most of us will stick around, we may leave a while and come back, but we'll come back. trust me.
Eize Ryda
Eize Ryda
That looks awesome Inc.
(Some of) You newer players need to step back on ragging on the devs so much. This isn't the first time in VO's development that the playerbase has had to wait with vague reassurements that there is progress(VTest/Alpha 3.1 -> 3.2 comes in mind). The development client has progressed so far beyond what the normal client that if it was released, everything would break. And due to the method the devs have used in development over the years makes it nearly impossible to release a client update without releasing the stuff in the development client.
In other words: A client update while the development client is somewhat broken means that VO as a whole gets broken. If VO is broken, many many of you will leave instead of wait out however long it will take to fix. That in turn would put our friendly devs out of business and kill VO.
Just let the devs do their jobs. They'll get everything done "soon" and then release what looks to be turning out to be a massive improvement overall. Pay your $10 a month to keep them running and the devs will pay you back with an awesome game.
[/rant]
(Some of) You newer players need to step back on ragging on the devs so much. This isn't the first time in VO's development that the playerbase has had to wait with vague reassurements that there is progress(VTest/Alpha 3.1 -> 3.2 comes in mind). The development client has progressed so far beyond what the normal client that if it was released, everything would break. And due to the method the devs have used in development over the years makes it nearly impossible to release a client update without releasing the stuff in the development client.
In other words: A client update while the development client is somewhat broken means that VO as a whole gets broken. If VO is broken, many many of you will leave instead of wait out however long it will take to fix. That in turn would put our friendly devs out of business and kill VO.
Just let the devs do their jobs. They'll get everything done "soon" and then release what looks to be turning out to be a massive improvement overall. Pay your $10 a month to keep them running and the devs will pay you back with an awesome game.
[/rant]
I guess I'll chime in with my .02 here...
I don't think it's a good idea to 'ignore the naysayers'. Most of the naysayers that I've seen are paying members. They want the game to do well, and they're frustrated at a perceived lack of direction.
I'm one of them.
I don't want to be harsh, but I've been here over a year now, and I've seen future developments change directions more often than a weather vane in a hurricane. Mission editors, crafting systems, the hive, new missions, new UIs, and now new ships. And there may be a coherent pattern to all this, and I hope there is. So I have one simple request....
Share the plan. Let us know what the steps are, what's coming, and what has to happen. Let us in on the roadmap. A lot of us have supported this game for a long time, and I think sharing the plan with us is reasonable request.
I don't think it's a good idea to 'ignore the naysayers'. Most of the naysayers that I've seen are paying members. They want the game to do well, and they're frustrated at a perceived lack of direction.
I'm one of them.
I don't want to be harsh, but I've been here over a year now, and I've seen future developments change directions more often than a weather vane in a hurricane. Mission editors, crafting systems, the hive, new missions, new UIs, and now new ships. And there may be a coherent pattern to all this, and I hope there is. So I have one simple request....
Share the plan. Let us know what the steps are, what's coming, and what has to happen. Let us in on the roadmap. A lot of us have supported this game for a long time, and I think sharing the plan with us is reasonable request.
They have, on many occasions. The overall goal is to make the game more fun (see the development wiki, Hive section). The first step was the hive, which ended up requiring a rewrite of LISA and the invention of DELIVERATOR. To facilitate making fun missions, the mission editor was begun, using ingame widgets. Those were found to be too hard to use, so ray started the UI redux (just about done now). Once there was some kind of working mission creation system, some dev realized that hive missions would be much more fun if the AI and the mission system understood groups well. Thus the trade convoy missions. Trade convoys were also part of John's long-term plans from the start. As for ships, well, that's just something that's going on on the side (and has been for some time) and which John is just starting to get results from. Crafting systems were never really mentioned. That is a long-long (post-capships) term plan, afaik. There was an economy redux planned, but that never happened.
The biggest current blocker is that the UI redux has meant that while the devs can make changes, most of their changes aren't visible to users because they can't release a new version of the client until the new UI works perfectly. In hindsight, it probably would have been wise for them to modularize things so that they could change one part of the code (the UI) without making it impossible to build other sections. But what's done is done, and now we get to wait.
What I think we can see in the near future is (in this order): improved Hive behavior and some improved missions, webinterface mission creator actually working, new UI, redone textures on old ships, new ships, user-purchasable midsize ships, capital ship interface (Homeworld-style), user purchasable capital ships, basic crafting system, some kind of ingame UID (this might come sooner, what with the new UI), and the Exploration addon.
Of course, I know no more than anybody else. Those are just my personal guesses.
The biggest current blocker is that the UI redux has meant that while the devs can make changes, most of their changes aren't visible to users because they can't release a new version of the client until the new UI works perfectly. In hindsight, it probably would have been wise for them to modularize things so that they could change one part of the code (the UI) without making it impossible to build other sections. But what's done is done, and now we get to wait.
What I think we can see in the near future is (in this order): improved Hive behavior and some improved missions, webinterface mission creator actually working, new UI, redone textures on old ships, new ships, user-purchasable midsize ships, capital ship interface (Homeworld-style), user purchasable capital ships, basic crafting system, some kind of ingame UID (this might come sooner, what with the new UI), and the Exploration addon.
Of course, I know no more than anybody else. Those are just my personal guesses.
Oh on a side note here some pretty screens I took earlier to today.
EDIT: this is the current in game warthog
Close up of warthog
full image
EDIT: this is the current in game warthog
Close up of warthog
full image
Well, there is a certain nostalgia attached to the EC-88, Incarnate. What if it was kept as a "special" ship or something while new players get some slightly more stylish, if similarly matched, spacecraft?
On the plus side, it would make getting bus kills something that players would have to actively try to do.
On the plus side, it would make getting bus kills something that players would have to actively try to do.
Hey Incarnate. could you maybe upload that to the screenshots section?
i don't know that the EC-88 needs to be replaced i mean iot is fairly common for the starting ship to be a boxy shuttel like craft. but if it is replaced as the starting ship, perhaps the EC-88 could become the default capitle ship support shuttelcraft (like the van like shuttesl from Star Trek TNG)
Perhaps it could also be a kind of escape pod for capital ship vessels
In opposition to Lord Q:
Escape Velocity Nova's Shuttlecraft was created with great care, I still like looking at the 3d version*.
So I join the chorus: By all means, make a nice bus! But please consider the aforementioned nostalgia and gives us the option of getting the 'old' ec-88, pretty please?
* link: http://www.macgamer.com/reviews/evn/images/evn17.jpg
Escape Velocity Nova's Shuttlecraft was created with great care, I still like looking at the 3d version*.
So I join the chorus: By all means, make a nice bus! But please consider the aforementioned nostalgia and gives us the option of getting the 'old' ec-88, pretty please?
* link: http://www.macgamer.com/reviews/evn/images/evn17.jpg