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i was doing some poking around, and i stumbled upon 2 rather interesting questions?
1. what formula is used to calculate how much ore the higher % mining beams will give out?
2. what formula is used to determine duel rankings?
1. what formula is used to calculate how much ore the higher % mining beams will give out?
2. what formula is used to determine duel rankings?
The duel rankings are calculated using the same formula that various chess organizations use to rank their players.
The mining beams? I think they are an increase in the likelihood of mining a particular ore in addition to the content of the roid.
So using an IoPhase beam on a roid with 50% Denic and 50% Ferric would change the ratio from 50% : 50% to something closer to 80% : 20%
On a roid that was 50/50 Lanthanic and Denic you wouldn't notice any change.
The mining beams? I think they are an increase in the likelihood of mining a particular ore in addition to the content of the roid.
So using an IoPhase beam on a roid with 50% Denic and 50% Ferric would change the ratio from 50% : 50% to something closer to 80% : 20%
On a roid that was 50/50 Lanthanic and Denic you wouldn't notice any change.
1. I think it's pretty simple. Say you have a roid that is 30% Denic, 70% Aquean and you mine it with a base mining beam. For each unit mined, you have a 3/10 chance of getting denic and a 7/10 chance of getting aquean. Now you mine it with a 200% denic mining beam. Now you have a 6/10 probability of getting denic and a 4/10 probability of getting aquean.
2. An extremely complicated one "borrowed" from some chess league.
2. An extremely complicated one "borrowed" from some chess league.
but rogue that cant be the case, say what of you about that 80% xith roid using a xith beam?
do i now have a 160% chance of mining xith? wow! go me!
are duel rankings similar to this:?
All new players get a starting rating equal to 1400. The rating calculation is similar to the FIDE rating scheme. The calculation formula consists of three arguments (hey! no arguing here, Ed):
Rn = Rp + C * S
where C (coefficient) is equal to: K = 105 - Rp * 3 / 80
and S (success) is equal to: S = P - 1 / (1 + 10 ^ (( Ro - Rp ) / 400 )
Meanings of the factors are:
Rn = New player's rating,
Rp = Player's rating,
Ro = Opponent's rating,
P = Points in the game (1 = win, 0.5 = draw, 0 = lost)
Decimal places are ignored, so 7.00 = 7, 7.50 = 7 and 7.99 =7.
do i now have a 160% chance of mining xith? wow! go me!
are duel rankings similar to this:?
All new players get a starting rating equal to 1400. The rating calculation is similar to the FIDE rating scheme. The calculation formula consists of three arguments (hey! no arguing here, Ed):
Rn = Rp + C * S
where C (coefficient) is equal to: K = 105 - Rp * 3 / 80
and S (success) is equal to: S = P - 1 / (1 + 10 ^ (( Ro - Rp ) / 400 )
Meanings of the factors are:
Rn = New player's rating,
Rp = Player's rating,
Ro = Opponent's rating,
P = Points in the game (1 = win, 0.5 = draw, 0 = lost)
Decimal places are ignored, so 7.00 = 7, 7.50 = 7 and 7.99 =7.
I've wondered about the mining beams, too. My guess has been that it multiplies the inverse of the mining beams specialty against all ores in the 'roid that are not specialized on - so a 80% Xith 'roid being mined by a 200% Xith Beam would half the probability of getting anything other than Xith, so you have a 90% chance of getting Xith. If this is the case, then it means that the specialized mining beams give diminishing returns - mining a 20% Xith 'roid with a 200% Xith beam would increase the probability of getting Xith to 60%, a 40% increase, but using the 200% Xith mining beam on a 90% Xith 'roid only increases 5% to 95%. So if you're mining for a specific ore at a 'roid that has a high percentage, you might be better off going with a mining beam with a better heat/speed ratio than a specialized beam.
All of this is just my guess, dunno if it's true or not.
All of this is just my guess, dunno if it's true or not.
yep, that sounds right for the mining beams and for the duel rankings.
a1k0n's post explaining duel ratings: http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/1/9370?page=3#108739
""mining a 20% Xith 'roid with a 200% Xith beam would increase the probability of getting Xith to 60%,""
close, 200% is double however, so 20% doubled is 40%.
however, what i suspect it does when mining is the following.
say you have an 80% xith roid, and you are using the 200% Xith beam...your base chances are 8 in 10 of getting xithricite, or 4 out of 5.
assume the game generates a lookup table where randomly generated number 1-4 results in xithricite, and #5 results in whatever..
to increase your chance of getting xith and still make it possible to get other ores, you can add 4 more "xith" lines to the table, making 1-4 & 6-9 xith, 5 is still whatever. your final chance for Xithricite is 8 out of 9. this minimizes the diminishing returns problem.
It also allows you to get the appropriate effect with the beams that are good for multiple ore types, where simply reducing the chance of getting the non-targeted ores would cause problems.
close, 200% is double however, so 20% doubled is 40%.
however, what i suspect it does when mining is the following.
say you have an 80% xith roid, and you are using the 200% Xith beam...your base chances are 8 in 10 of getting xithricite, or 4 out of 5.
assume the game generates a lookup table where randomly generated number 1-4 results in xithricite, and #5 results in whatever..
to increase your chance of getting xith and still make it possible to get other ores, you can add 4 more "xith" lines to the table, making 1-4 & 6-9 xith, 5 is still whatever. your final chance for Xithricite is 8 out of 9. this minimizes the diminishing returns problem.
It also allows you to get the appropriate effect with the beams that are good for multiple ore types, where simply reducing the chance of getting the non-targeted ores would cause problems.
My guess isn't that it doubles the Xith 20%, but that it halfs the not-Xith 80% - so instead of having a 80% chance of not getting the ore, you have a 40% chance of not getting the ore, which means you have a 60% chance of getting it. Does that make any more sense?
It wouldn't be much different for the beams that specialize in multiple ores. Say you're using a IoPhase Mining Beam (Denic 300% Lanthanic 300%), mining a 'roid that's 20% Denic, 10% Lanthanic, 40% Ferric, and 30% Carbonic. So you'd take each of the non-targetted ores, and drop their probability by 1/3, so the Ferric is now 13.33%, and the Carbonic is now 10%. The 46.67% probability that used to yield Ferric or Carbonic is then moved over to the targeted ores, in proportion to their original probabilities (2:1 Denic to Lanthanic ratio in this example), so the probability for Denic would be 20+(2/3 * 46.67)=51.11% and Lanthanic would be 10+(1/3 * 46.67)=25.56%.
It wouldn't be much different for the beams that specialize in multiple ores. Say you're using a IoPhase Mining Beam (Denic 300% Lanthanic 300%), mining a 'roid that's 20% Denic, 10% Lanthanic, 40% Ferric, and 30% Carbonic. So you'd take each of the non-targetted ores, and drop their probability by 1/3, so the Ferric is now 13.33%, and the Carbonic is now 10%. The 46.67% probability that used to yield Ferric or Carbonic is then moved over to the targeted ores, in proportion to their original probabilities (2:1 Denic to Lanthanic ratio in this example), so the probability for Denic would be 20+(2/3 * 46.67)=51.11% and Lanthanic would be 10+(1/3 * 46.67)=25.56%.
I would just like to state again, for the record:
I HATE MATH!
That is all.
I HATE MATH!
That is all.
Any dev want to clarify how the mining beams work?
Well, there's my theory gone... just mined 211 units from a Silicate 38.0%, VanAzek 38.0%, Heliocene 24.0% roid, using the Heliocene 200% beam. According to my theory, that should have given Heliocene 62% of the time, which of the 211 units would have been 131 units, but I actually only got 72 units of Heliocene, which is 34.12%. Spellcast's theory is closer, as it predicted 38.71%, which is within a reasonable margin of error, but it still seems I had bad luck...
/me is still waiting for the Devs to bless him with enlightenment on how the mining beams work...
/me is still waiting for the Devs to bless him with enlightenment on how the mining beams work...
yah devs what is the up with mining beams?
the anticipation of finally knowing is killing me!
ok not literally, but cmon whats the cookie?
ok not literally, but cmon whats the cookie?
Hi. I'd reply with useful information if I remembered how they work. But I.. don't. I can look it up, if no one else remembers.
Spellcast is correct, if I understand him right.
In this case, it'll pick a number between 0 and (38*1 + 38*1 + 24*2) and use the appropriate resource. So the new ratios become 30.6%/30.6%/38.7%. So yes, you got slighly under the expected amount but it's pretty close.
In this case, it'll pick a number between 0 and (38*1 + 38*1 + 24*2) and use the appropriate resource. So the new ratios become 30.6%/30.6%/38.7%. So yes, you got slighly under the expected amount but it's pretty close.
Cool, thanks a1k0n & incarnate.
Miners are notoriusly superstitious, my elderley relative, who used to be a coal-miner would turn for home, if he saw a cross-eyed woman on his way to work.
Similarly hearing a dog bark could be a sign of impending doom, as they were often reported to be heard underground prior to a cave-in (probably the sound of timber supports breaking).
So... a miners explanation of your poor Heliocene yield could be:
- you washed your ship, thereby weakening its mining power - miners used to believe that washing their back would make them weak.
- your ship was the wrong colour
- you didnt say good morning to the first roid you saw that day
- you didnt jettison some ore back into space - taking a full load home is greedy and can anger the spirits of the roids
May your roids be cool and bountiful!
Ming
Similarly hearing a dog bark could be a sign of impending doom, as they were often reported to be heard underground prior to a cave-in (probably the sound of timber supports breaking).
So... a miners explanation of your poor Heliocene yield could be:
- you washed your ship, thereby weakening its mining power - miners used to believe that washing their back would make them weak.
- your ship was the wrong colour
- you didnt say good morning to the first roid you saw that day
- you didnt jettison some ore back into space - taking a full load home is greedy and can anger the spirits of the roids
May your roids be cool and bountiful!
Ming
yea a1k0n.. thats what i meant..
Cool, I was right. thats kinda neat. :)
Cool, I was right. thats kinda neat. :)
Another question about mining beams: we've been told that more mining beams mining the same 'roid are more efficient heating-wise than fewer mining beams, but what's the actual algorithm that determines how fast the 'roid heats up? Cunjo posted here: http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/12162#148179 that only the first beam to hit the 'roid heats it, any subsequent beams don't contribute to the heating at all. Is that actually the case?