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1.2.3.4 Balance tweaks discussion

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Jun 18, 2005 Fnugget link
big trade ships shouldnt have infini turbo over 180. no atlas should have infini turbo 200 or more. This would make some busses quite useful, since their purpose is, all-purpose.

we do need a courier/personal transport ship. if not the cent mk2, make it the cent mk 1. 230 seemed a good speed. below the top fighters, and above the top infiniboosters.

I see no complaints about the hornet, except mine alone. I lagged horribly, yet i managed to slaughter pilots. Maybe I'm just that good with hornet?

I think centaur need to lose their 200 infini turbo, and let the now useless maud take it's place as the 200 infini. it is, afterall, the ultimate cargo ship. Besides, the centaur has 2 medium looking engine things (i guess you cant call them exhausts), while the maud has 6 small ones around the ship. It would look accurate if it could go faster, and turn faster. if no other cargo ship except a bus could infini turbo at 200, the maud would truly take it's place.
Jun 18, 2005 Nya13 link
Hornet is the worst ship in game for long.

we still waiting the change on it.

hope the Hornet will have a big armor (around 15 000)
and a better thrust.

it's supposed to be a armored light/medium ship.
17 m lenght make it easy to hit.
Jun 18, 2005 Arolte link
AFAIK most people continue to equip Hornets with missiles and rockets only. But I found a way to make them useful with energy weapons too. And I'm not talking about gauss cannons either. I've been botting with it using nothing more than quad neutrons or positrons. With positrons especially you can keep the Hornet pretty light and still pack a mean punch. And even in the previous version they were quite effective. Here's what I did to make Hornets more deadly...

I went into the config files and turned off mouselook. Then I bumped the mouse sensitivity up to something like 400. Well it actually depends on your OS settings. For me OS X has pretty crappy mouse tracking with my Logitech mouse, so I gotta turn it ALL the way up. And lastly I bumped the roll rate, using a bind, up to 600. The ship flies beautifully without all the wobbling of mouselook. Turning mouselook off may take some time getting used to, and can become somewhat annoying when you can't look around during boost, but you'll eventually see tons of benefits that you wish you had before.

I haven't tried fighting any players with my new controls. But I do know that it kicks major bot ass during missions. As long as you've got the bots within sight and not all around you, you can dodge incoming fire and take bots down quite easily. It's much easier to dodge enemy fire because you get a better idea of how the ship is oriented with mouselook off. Oh and also make sure you ease up at the controls and leave autoaim on. Like I said it takes getting used to, but you'll find your accuracy go up by a lot once you get the hang of it.

Anyway, just thought I'd mention that. And if you're like me, who is someone that is still frustrated by the wobble of the Hornet and wants to use the cool ship without having to load it up with tons of missiles, you might want to give this configuration a try. It's helped me regain interest in the Hornet again, and it's also helped my fly some of the heavier ships also.
Jun 18, 2005 SirCamps link
My biased opinions*:

Ships
The Marauder, like the Centuar and Behemoth, should have infiniboost, but since it is a "special" ship, it should have a higher top boosting speed than either.

The Hornet has always been a bastard ship. Not as bad as the Rag, but not as good as the Valk. I think where it's at now is good.

Weapons

The low-class rockets need serious help. How deadly is a popper with eight rounds? I think we should flip the ammo capacities of the ice/star-flares and the sunflare. The sunflare should have 8 - 10 rounds capacity, and the ice/star-flares should have 18 - 24. Moreover, it wouldn't be a bad idea to limit the individual ammo capacities of each ship (or more controversially, each slot :-P). That would truly make using a Ragnarok, say, for use as anti-fighter support ship a serious option. It could carry more swarms than a Wart Hog, and flares than a Centurion. Likewise, a Rev C would not be able to carry 16 (or 10) sunflares per tube.

* Biased by what, you ask? How I think VO should be. :-p
Jun 18, 2005 Phaserlight link
...or we could make the iceflares/starflares available at level 0 and HW 1.
Jun 18, 2005 CrippledPidgeon link
Hey Phaser, those rockets are light weapons.
Jun 18, 2005 yodaofborg link
Ya know, I kinda like the *Have less, and do less damage, have more and kill stuff, but be heavy as sin** balance of the flares. I think maybe stars should get 12 though, but I actually use stars sometimes, makes a valk a lil better at popping mines, while your nt blaster takes em out (and if your light enough in a valk, well, they aint getting away) nuff said.

*I said Sin, i dont know how heavy Syn are, I have never weighed them.

[Edit]

Infiniboost = Evil!
Jun 18, 2005 nuthou5e link
Most of the balances make sense.

Light fighters shouldn't have infiniboost, no matter how easy it makes getting around the universe. It will be missed. Too many people (myself included) were using small fighters for ctc. This will encourage more team work to get the job done.

Warthogs needed enhancement, now they are valuable for ctc.

Proms needed downgrading.

Valkries needed upgrading.

Transports and some heavy ship variants should have infiniboost.

What I don't agree with is the sidelining if the Marauder. It needs a 10m/s boost to make it desirable and unique. It did have a lot of armor for its mass, that really should be on the cargo side of the equation. But it should be the cargo runner of choice for outrunning pirates.
Jun 19, 2005 Nya13 link
no it's already unique.

just look at his lenght : 12 m
+
<< The Marauder is the best ship a trader can get. The UIT sell the original version of it, but many other factions which are off shoots of the UIT sell their own variants, most notably Tunguska. The main variant has 3 small weapon ports and 48 cargo storage units. There are other variants that can hold up 60 units of cargo >>

the corvus "assault" has 220 max speed.

the new stats are fine.

if you increase the max speed. pleople will use it once again to do CtC. the speed + turbo is the main advantage.
and the Marauder is able to transport 48 + CU...
Jun 19, 2005 Sun Tzu link
"The Marauder is the best ship a trader can get."
That quote is outdated. The Maud is just the worst ship a trader can get. A behemoth or a centaur are way better. The only variant that is not absolutely crappy at the moment is the Tunguska special, if you are not in a hurry (its top speed is still inferior to a behemoth, can you believe that???). All but the Tung have less thrust than centurions... They behave like loaded trucks on an ice pool if they use half their cargo capacity. Another effect: they are sitting ducks for improved hive bots when they pick up CtC cargo in any storm. I used to live in a TPG X, but it became more and more useless as the other ships were tweaked. A number of guys showed that the Corvus maud could be used for fighting with the new flares, but they were largely relying on armor to compensate for a so-so maneuverability; now it has been cut down, what remains of them?
Jun 19, 2005 Renegade ++RIP++ link
hey i used the nice elite tpg maud :(. It kicks matauder butt even the corvus one :D. But loaded the marauder is crappy, unloaded it might beat an ibg. I would like to reiterate my point from months ago about giving every tradeship a certain weight before adding more cargoweight on it affects it manouvringability. Making it poossible to balance a loaded loadout with a empty one.

anyway jumping in and out. If people are complaining about a scoutership.

Well in stead of making a ship like the cent have infiniboost what about a fast moving ship with no weaponports? Since a scout is a scout right? He is there to check stuff out, not fight. Also give it like 0 -1 cargospace and like a infiniturbo of 300. Hull like one of the aerna seekers.

Heck give me an aerna seeker as scoutship :D.
Jun 19, 2005 Nya13 link
Sun tzu :
The Maud is just the worst ship a trader can get. A behemoth or a centaur are way better. The only variant that is not absolutely crappy at the moment is the Tunguska special, if you are not in a hurry.

****************************************************************

Centaur
http://www.vo-wiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Centaur

Marauder
http://www.vo-wiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Marauder

Behemot
http://www.vo-wiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Behemot

the Marauder is an unique ship
better than the centaur because it's not a heavy ship.

Centaur and Behemot are heavy transport ship

while the Marauder is light/medium transport ship

not a light assault ship. (unless the Corvus variant)
Jun 19, 2005 Phaserlight link
Rene: Well in stead of making a ship like the cent have infiniboost what about a fast moving ship with no weaponports? Since a scout is a scout right? He is there to check stuff out, not fight. Also give it like 0 -1 cargospace and like a infiniturbo of 300. Hull like one of the aerna seekers.

This is too drastic. What about a centurion variant with 240 m/s infiniboost, no weapon ports, 3 cargo space, and 6500 armor?

Sun Tzu: its top speed is still inferior to a behemoth, can you believe that???

Gotta give you that. I've been saying for a long time that the behemoth's top speed oughta be nerfed (and I fly the moth all the time). It has so much armor it's virtually unstoppable. Whatever happened to trade ships needing escorts? I think the behemoth's top speed should be nerfed down to 160 m/s.
Jun 19, 2005 yodaofborg link
160 = Pirate fodder.

170 = Maybe getting away

180 = Good chance of getting away, even against two.

190 = WTF?

Sorry, I am a pirate, but I feel it should be hard to pirate, but not impossible, Centaurs laugh away my valk right now and run to the nearest station (or some even turn round and whoop me, hehe, takes guts, but it happens), as for behemoths? Unless I get lucky and chase one into a *few* storms in a row, its getting away. unless the pilot is stupid enough to turn round and fire missiles /agt/whatever at me its getting away, heck, I know one moth pilot who runs happily from azek to odia all day long, and gets kills (and bounties) along the way, has done for some time.

Its been hard to be a *good* pirate since aerna seekers were introduced (its not our fault they dont always work), and its getting harder all the time, thats a good thing, even in my books, but its time to say "Noooo Devs, this isnt care bears R us, Stop it!"

One of you guide/dev types should try pirate nowadays. stop making it harder, maybe put beam guns on stations though, heh.
Jun 19, 2005 Phaserlight link
With 1.2.3.4 the Warthog has definitely taken a bold step into a new role. Before the vulture used to be the "sprint" fighter with a high top speed and high drain, now I think the warthog TD is the fastest fighter in the game, but only over short distances.
Jun 19, 2005 CrippledPidgeon link
kinda funny that it's a medium fighter though.
Jun 19, 2005 jexkerome link
Getting back to Marauders for a moment, I remember looking forward to them when I started down that dark path towards trading for a living. I did the faction grinds and pre-Guild-Mission trade runs until I finally got my hand on the first of the mauds. I tried that one for a while, trading across safespace and greyspace; then I tried all the other variations of the maud, used them to trade and fight. Once I was convinced my experiences were not all due to my crappy skills, I ditched them and went back to the centaur, never looked back.

Now the maud is so frail not even the Corvus variation is any good if you run across harm's way, while the centaur can laugh off pirate attacks. Guess which ship I'll be using.
Jun 20, 2005 Renegade ++RIP++ link
phaser...

I object, have you seen the guides move in that little zippy thing... I want to have one too...

And as long as it has no weaponports nor has any cargoports we aren't hurting anyone with its creation. Heck prolly most people would not even bother buying it. And it would fortify the idea about different ships :D and a speciality.

Besides its not like you can really use its advantage that notoriously... most warpholes are very short making the speed at which you top out practically of 0 importance, since iy only matters another 2 seconds.

cheers
Jun 20, 2005 LeberMac link
Some wormhole distances are over 10,000 m, Rene.
That's why people used the Cent Mk2 for the long-distance Deneb run race. 230 m/s was not the fastest, but on the average, the infiniboost capabilities were FAR more important than a high top speed.

In Yoda's defense, it's REALLY hard to stop a behemoth with a pilot who knows what he/she is doing. Warp into the WH sector, wait for FC batt to recharge, aim nose at WH, BOOST, hit activate when you reach WH, laugh at pirates. You'd need I estimate about 4 folks with heavy missile ships to bring down an undamaged 'moth.

I still like my IDF Valk methinks. Since there's no reason to use the NON-Infiniboost Rune Valk.
Jun 20, 2005 Renegade ++RIP++ link
the point is leber,

what is the hurt in creating a ship with no weaponports, no cargoports and that speed, heck give it 3k hull for all i care. But the point is, it is a scout. it offers a quick survey of a sector, a quick exit even. But it is not unbalanced since practically nobody is going to use it to haul cargo, to fight people and get out. Sorry but I really don't see the problem in the creation of it. Its not like it is a ubercent with uberdodgingcapabilities while being able to whittle a person down...

Besids those are some sectors, I was speaking about the majority of sectors. On all my trips there were like 8 or 10 sectors with alonger distance then 5k (make that it is like 2 - 5% of all the sectors).

Beside it was logical why infiniboost was more important then being the fastest. Since the difference between infiniboost and topspeed is so little (240 max, 230 infini). Put a ship with 190 infiniboost and a ship with 240 maxpeed (like the valk) beside each other, i'm sure that we can say that the infiniboost is then not the winner...