Forums » Suggestions

Contraband: illegal weapons and goods, the black market, and cargo scanning.

12»
Mar 02, 2005 Phaserlight link
Two preambles to this thread...

On trading eq between players (yay neutIIIs for UIT!);
http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/9232

On looting eq from bots and players;
http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/7295

The main problem with these two suggestions is: how do you keep high level players from stockpiling these weapons and giving them to low level players?

I would like to discuss the concept of contraband weapons and goods, and how it could solve this problem and add to the excitement and immersiveness of the Vendetta universe.

First of all, it seems to make the most sense that a weapon or piece of equipment would be considered contraband by a particular faction if you did not meet that faction's license requirements for the weapon. For example, if I bought a chaos swarm launcher in Corvus space at level 4 and flew into UIT guarded territory with it... the chaos swarm launcher would be considered contraband. If I blew up a orun guardian at level 1 and looted its gatling turret (presuming looting was ever implemented) pretty much anywhere I flew the weapon would be considered contraband.

Second, station guards would occasionally scan ships that entered a station's no-fire zone. They would first message the incoming player something like "This is <guard>, standby for a cargo scan" then they would fly within 500m and hit them with the scanner. If the ship carried no contraband the guard would say "All clear <playername>, welcome to <faction> space."

A player that was selected for a cargo scan would not be allowed to dock with the station until they completed the scan, or left the sector. If the scan turned up contraband in the cargo hold or equipped in the ship ports, the guard would sic the strike force on them.

The guards would not always scan an incoming ship... only if they weren't otherwise occupied. This could lead to some interesting tactics: "You distract the guards.. I'll slip in with the contraband and we'll split the profit! muahaha."

Third, there could be some types of goods that are considered contraband to some factions, but not to others. You could buy spacecrack or holopr0n in Odia and make a fortune smuggling it into Itani, UIT, or Serco space... but if you got scanned with the contraband in your cargo you would be summarily destroyed, and the guards would recover the cargo for 'evidence.'

Fourth, some guards could be bribed. When they gave you the "standby for scanning" message if you immediately slipped them 50,000 credits or so (the actual number would depend on your faction standing, the amount of contraband you are carrying, and the morality of the faction in question... you would have to make a guess at what amount would do it) then if the bribe was successful after the guard scanned you they would give you the "all clear.. go about your buisiness... *wink*" message.

Imagine sweating bullets as you wait for the Initros station guard to scan your behemoth. Will they notice those 20 cu's of spacecrack beneath all those inert chemicals? Did you bribe them enough? Or will you have to run for dear life with the strike force on your tail back to Corvus space?

Smuggling and the black market plays a big part in many different space sagas (take star wars for example... who doesn't want to be Han Solo?) and would be a lot of fun in the Vendetta universe. It would give context to the ability to buy weapons ahead of normal license levels in corvus space, and it would allow new features like player trading and eq looting to be implemented by giving the devs a good RP way to keep things in check.
Mar 02, 2005 johnhawl218 link
The main problem with these two suggestions is: how do you keep high level players from stockpiling these weapons and giving them to low level players?

-- It shouldn't be a problem at all with the current system still in place. Those who do not meet the license requirements can not use them. If they are ment for Serco/Itani only (NeutIII) then they are confiscated in Monitored Territory by guards or seekers, and told that they will be used for reverse-engineering by the factions (UIT) research facilities.

I would like to discuss the concept of contraband weapons and goods, and how it could solve this problem and add to the excitement and immersiveness of the Vendetta universe.

First of all, a weapon or piece of equipment would be considered contraband by a particular faction if you did not meet that faction's license requirements for the weapon. For example, if I bought a chaos swarm launcher in Corvus space at level 4 and flew into UIT guarded territory with it... the chaos swarm launcher would be considered contraband. If I blew up a orun guardian at level 1 and looted its gatling turret (presuming looting was ever implemented) pretty much anywhere I flew the weapon would be considered contraband. If Icarus sold me (a UIT) a neutIII, it would be considered contraband (neutIII license requirement for UIT = infinity).


-- I don't think that because you simply do not meet the requirements for a weapon that it should be considered "contraband", your simply no qualified to use the tech yet.

Second, station guards would occasionally scan ships that entered a station's no-fire zone. They would first message the incoming player "This is <guard>, standby for a cargo scan" then they would fly within 500m and hit them with the scanner. If the ship carried no contraband the guard would say "All clear <playername>, welcome to <faction> space."

A player that was selected for a cargo scan would not be allowed to dock with the station until they completed the scan, or left the sector. If the scan turned up contraband in the cargo hold or equipped in the ship ports, the guard would sic the strike force on them.

The guards would not always scan an incoming ship... only if they weren't otherwise occupied. This could lead to some interesting tactics: "You distract the guards.. I'll slip in with the contraband and we'll split the profit! muahaha."


-- I love the idea that you have to gain permission to dock. I've been trying to come up with a good reason for this myself. Though I don't think that having items that are lower license level becomeing contraband is a good idea, I do think that having some kind of widget that you can purchase only in Corvos, or perhaps goods that have been obtainded through killing npc traders being tagged as "contraband" or "stolen goods" and if they show up in a scan then you are either charged a fee equal to the item or they are confiscated and a small faction his is taken, though taking goods aquired by killing an npc to Corvos stations will not be considered "stolen goods" simply because they operate under the "Don't ask Don't tell" policy.

Third, there could be some types of goods that are considered contraband to some factions, but not to others. You could buy spacecrack or holopr0n in Odia and make a fortune smuggling it into Itani, UIT, or Serco space... but if you got scanned with the contraband in your cargo you would be summarily destroyed, and the guards would recover the cargo for 'evidence.'

-- I love this idea!!!! There already exists "luxury goods", which are the money sinks of the 21st cent. and "Personal Defense Systems" which are small arms and other personal defense devices, perhaps call them "Luxury Goods*" and "Personal Defense Systems*", with the "*" meaning that it is considered contraband.

Fourth, some guards could be bribed. When they gave you the "standby for scanning" message if you immediately slipped them 50,000 credits or so (the actual number would depend on your faction standing, the amount of contraband you are carrying, and the morality of the faction in question... you would have to make a guess at what amount would do it) then if the bribe was successful after the guard scanned you they would give you the "all clear.. go about your buisiness... *wink*" message.

Imagine sweating bullets as you wait for the Initros station guard to scan your behemoth. Will they notice those 20 cu's of spacecrack beneath all those inert chemicals? Did you bribe them enough? Or will you have to run for dear life with the strike force on your tail back to Corvus space?

Smuggling and the black market plays a big part in many different space sagas (take star wars for example) and would be a lot of fun in the Vendetta universe. It would give context to the ability to buy weapons ahead of normal license levels in corvus space, and it would allow new features like player trading and eq looting to be implemented by giving the devs a good RP way to keep things in check.


-- I like bribing!! =) works wonders when you need something. Having said that, trying to time that command, before being hijacked doesn't seem realistic, perhaps a simple /bribe command would start an interaction tree before the guard takes your goods and sends the message saying "he has contraband, confiscating now" or what ever, that would allow you to haggle your way out of the situation, perhaps a bid war for how much it will take to dock, with an opt out to run if you can't make the price. Of course they should chase you. Some stations could be known more so for having corruped guards.
Mar 02, 2005 yodaofborg link
Overall I like phaserlights idea, it should be a random pulling, just like in that othergame, uhum, real life, and in this game if you are caught uhum, flying a ship you are not licensed to drive, you are penalised, and having a gun you are not licensed to shoot gets you in hella trouble, why should this not be the case in the vendetta loonyverse?

[gets my stomp of approval]

[Edit]

A first move could be a 3 in 10 chance of the station guards in monitored space pulling you for flying a ship you bought in corvus/a gun you got there, *We have checked your license, and you are carring equipment you are not licensed to have* - sic em seekers. We all know it means hitting turbo and getting the hell out of there, adds a new level of RP IMHO
Mar 02, 2005 ananzi link
i really dont give a poot about gun running, drug dealing, or as some have mentioned in 100, human trafficking (ie slavery and prostitution). we already have murdering, bounty hunting, pirating, ambush, theft, war, cop killing, gangs, vigilantism, etc etc etc.

there needs to be more constructive & creative stuff before any more darkness and evil... unless you really want to make it into "Grand Theft Spaceship". if that happens i will cancel (stop cheering).
Mar 02, 2005 Shapenaji link
Haha, I like that you're suggesting this Phaserlight, you VPR you! :P

But all the same, I like the ideas
Mar 02, 2005 ArAsH link
ofcourse military and police forces (read guilds, like IDF, VPR...) are allowed too use every gun they see fit to handle a situation :P
Mar 02, 2005 ananzi link
vpr is not a police force. it is a vigilante gang.

police forces are part of a legal & justice system, which is part of a civil government, of which there is none in vendetta.
Mar 02, 2005 ArAsH link
yes, i know, it was actually more kind of a wild suggestion towards the future. I kinda liked games like elite, where you could choose for a millitary carreer and get millitary grade weapons at your disposal. Its kinda logical, and when i started this game, i was under the impression that it was possible to join millitary forces to gain acces to better weapons. To do this guilds need to be officially recognised by the games governments and I kinda envisioned Vipers as a police, special unit type of guild for the UIT who don't have a military. Anyway, I'm drifting verry off-topic here, sorry for that :)
Mar 03, 2005 Solra Bizna link
I like this idea. Carting bio-weapons through Federation space was fun (EV:Nova) especially since I knew that my precious "Upstanding Citizen" legal status would disappear and that my Leviathan would be unable to defend itself if I gave them a chance to scan me...
Silly me for trying to outrun the Federation interceptors in a Leviathan. :/
-:sigma.SB
Mar 04, 2005 Phaserlight link
"Grand Theft Spaceship" lolz. Well, the content could be different while keeping the nature of contraband gameplay the same. For example, I would imagine bioweapons or dangerous toxins would be a lot less controversial than prostitutes or drugs.

Also, this game already has a "T" rating for the backstory.
Mar 04, 2005 Demonen link
@ananzi: I'd love to hear your suggestions for "more constructive & creative stuff".

Allthough I'd really like to see the universe full of smuggleing and such, I feel it should be really, really hard.

What if Corvus wouldn't sell you bulk drugs unless you have a > +890 standing?
What if that standing would drop to 0 (aka "I don't know the guy! Honestly!") if you got cought?

It'd be grat fun to smuggle, but if vendetta becomes a smuggling game I'm with ananzi.
I allready think it's becoming a bit too centered on piracy.

Ok, let's see what there is to do in the game:
1) Trading
2) Mining
3) Botting
4) CTC
5) Piracy

I'd like to see crafting, setting up my own "booth" and selling stuff, exploring new systems, becoming a police officer etc.

I know exploring is coming, so please implement that before smuggeling and bribery, but please get to smuggeling and bribery eventually :D

ananzi: Please back me up here in coming up with stuff to do that does not involve becoming a criminal...
Mar 04, 2005 ananzi link
'space janitor':
u target sections of stations and fire a 'cleaning beam'.
dirtiness is a function of number of visitors.

space fire fighter:
put out fires on stations and so forth with special equipment.

also artistic possibilites. some kind of weaponry that
is just for artistic purposes, perhaps paint guns..
ice/water guns that 'build up' structure as you shoot...
spark shower sprayers, glinty shard droppers (since its kind
of hard to drop a lot of cargo in an organized pattern)
in various colors.... mines that are light sources...

races. race tracks. obstacle courses.

organized dueling ranges.. sort of like the difference of
philosophy between gang street fighting, and tae kwan do
or fencing at the olympics. in fact, maybe there should
be a kind of olympics, where all nations are invited.

more diversity and freedom in the trading and mining system
behemoth is a great example of this. but also passenger
services, ship ferrying, equipment transport, easier
ability to ferry other players cargo for them.. give
players access to each others station holds... with the
'license' being applied to the ability to equip weapons or drive
ships, not the ability to ferry them (as stated in another
wonderful thread)

player involvement in creating billboards and news stories.
i know this would be moderator hell but maybe if players could
vote on the submitted stories (like at kuro5hin)...

i am not against smuggling etc but i agree with demonen.
it should be difficult. and if u can deal drugs then there
should be junkie NPCs that go nuts and kill people, and
suppliers that squeeze you, and rival NPC drug dealers that
try to kill you. not to mention the cops. and 'crack stations'
that have the lights all messed up and big pieces of
synthplywood stapled onto the outside.

in fact, when the player drug dealers sell too many drugs
to a station, the station starts to slowly transform into
a 'crack station'. it begins to charge outrageous prices
for equipment and trade goods... it also stops selling
certain items.. and it only repairs your ship halfway
instead of 100% when you dock.. when you buy 50 crates
of something the junkie deck hands will only load
40.. and so forth. near the very end it starts begging you
for money when you dock, and the only thing for sale are
standard busses and aquean ore, and they cost 20,000 credits each.

of course, then there can be a 'rehab' role for players..
where they transport counselors and new personell to a station,
scan the station for drugs using scanning beams,
call in the janitors to clean it up with their cleaning beams,
and transport junkies back to rehab units on sol II
or wherever.

Mar 04, 2005 Borb II link
I suport contraband 100%
Mar 04, 2005 roguelazer link
The only parts of ananzi's most recent posting that I agree with are the fourth, sixth and seventh paragraphs. To the rest I say, "THIS IS A GAME. WE'RE NOT HAVING REHAB CENTERS AND JANITORS." I like the idea of painting and all, but it'd add major lag and then we'd have to have content police to make sure that every roid in Dau G-11 didn't have a giant penis painted on it.
Mar 04, 2005 Demonen link
Let's say the TPG ship manufacturing plant have 140 EC-88 ships ready for transport to various stations for newbie handout.
Assuming the EC-88 takes up 100cu when it's disassembled for transport the Moth can carry it.

That's a job I'd do.

Also, I'd like to see long-term trade agreements.

"Bring us 40000 crates of foo per month"
If you make it, bonuses are paid in addition to the fact that it would also be a rather lucrative trade route to begin with.
Like trading with no mission now, only made into a contract.
It would be nice to have multiple such contracts at a time.

Restocking Odia M-14 with plasma cores, 30000 crates a month, no bad things will happen if it's not met, so pirates have no reason not to attack. That would be some good fun provided that the closest source is in Ukari or something similarly distant from the target sector.
Mar 04, 2005 roguelazer link
30000? That's, uhh, 250 trips with a full Behemoth. Ouch.
Mar 04, 2005 Beolach link
Hmmm.... 30 days a month, 250 trips, makes 8 & 1/3 trips a day. Possible, but a bit too much of a pain for me to be interested, thanks. But, if it was 10000 cu's, that'd be less than 3 trips a day, which would be much more attractive to me.

Another thing that could make this really cool, is if they required you to pick up that 10000 cargo from a specific station, and take it to a specific station ("We have an exclusive contract with <Faction X>, we can only accept <Cargo Type> from them."). And then, Corvus Prime could sell information on what players are doing which routes. Hello, Meeester Pie-Rat! I'm just SO surprised to see you!
Mar 05, 2005 Demonen link
Exacly.
The best paying traderoutes shoud be so dangerous your hair starts falling out.
Mar 05, 2005 Big Mike85 link
I kind of like this in a way but then again I kind of dont. Obviously illegal/contraband goods are a part of everyday life. I along with many of you think that there should also be these sorts of items in the game. As of right now all we have is a Corvus. Which merely allows you to get stuff before youre supposed to. Also there is not penalty for this. The only drawback is that you have to purchase from Corvus. (DUH!) I feel that there should be more items that are/can be considered contraband. Items that would not be available on the market anywhere anytime. (Like illegaly modified plasma cannons that make N3s look like pea shooters) However that being said there needs to be two things introduced with this. 1. A high purchase cost. And I dont mean a few thousand. Maybe a few hundred thousand for teh good stuff. 2. There needs to be a really large penalty. Icluding faction loss for the faction that catches you, temporary KOS, and potentially faction loss for the faction that you purchased the goods from for being caught. Also maybe a nice lil hefty fine. And if you get caught a bunch or if you acrue alot of fines then the faction could put a bounty on yer head.

Thats all I can think of right now. Ill edit late maybe.
Mar 12, 2005 roguelazer link
I've been thinking it over, and that contracts idea is the best one I've heard in a long time. Not only would it be a cool new aspect of gameplay, but it'd be a way to let players take multiple missions at the same time. Demonen, if you're reading this, can you start a new thread for the idea?