"losing Xp is a good idea to grief a griefer."

Thanks Nya13 you proved my point. The bounty system is now a grief system. Traders can easily grief a pirate out of this game with the new bounty system. Why try and fight the pirates when you can just pool your money and place a bounty and knock them down a license or two. Maybe the placer of the bounty needs to also lose 5% skill points across the board.

Who is going to be a bounty hunter if it IS easy? If I want easy, I'll go fight collector bots.

Pirate does NOT necessarily mean griefer. They'd only be a griefer if they repeatedly targeted one player & caused that one player to have grief. I have only occasionally encountered pirates as I've traded, and either they killed me, end of story, or I've killed them, end of story, or I've succeeded at running away, end of story. I have never felt like I was specifically being targetted, and unless I ever feel that way I won't consider the pirate to be a griefer.

It will kick out the pirates. Shape has just stated that the XP loss makes him so unhappy he isn't enjoying the game, and may not be playing much with the situation as it stands.

i dont agree with the xp loss at all. It discourages PvP, and without PvP Vendetta is completely pointless.

Im not sure that bounties should be initiated by players, i think that the governments should have a 'most-wanted' system where those with low faction (or who have killed lots of their citizens) have a bounty placed (possibly players could contribute to the 'pot' of reward).

Shape is certaintly not a griefer, i've fought him a couple of times and he is one of the most honourable pilots around (even staying (and returning) to fight despite being outnumbered 3-1 in one instance).

Press Release - TUNGUSKA HOSPITAL OFFERS THERAPY TO DEPRESSED PIRATES

Tungunska Central, AD4432-12-8 - The Tungunska medical community is aware of the depressing effects of reincarnation and decided to offer special therapy courses after the implementation of a Bounty system that creates a major health issue in the grey territories.

"We know what it feels when you got killed one time too many" said Dr Sun™, CEO of the Tungunska Hospital, "You lose karma and self-confidence and they don't give you social security for pirating. Our program is for you. Don't type '/explode' and see what our hospital can offer to you, victims of bounty hunters".

Tungunska Hospital offers two healing programs. "With the LONG JOHN cure, you can recover lost combat points without shooting; just sit comfortably and relax while we do the job for you. The FRANCIS DRAKE program enables you to promptly recover your dear trade points: all you need to do is indicate your station and make a few 50m trips in your Centaur; we can provide additional protection if you are afraid to go out alone in the dark".

Fees are available on demand.

TUNGUNSKA HOSPITAL [TUHO] is a company listed on the Dau stock market. Dr Sun™ heals everything including bank accounts.

"TUNGUSKA HOSPITAL: you will YAAARRR again".

Seems we now know what we are supposed to really be spending our excessive forutunes on, and truly reveals the reason for the name of the game. This isn't a game about space, or trading, or pirates....its about feuding, and the bounty system is a very effective way of cutting players to the quick, to the place they really live, which is not pixel-cash or cargo or ships, and in the process incites real vendetta between players, not just their characters. Among the questions we need to ask:

1) What kind of person would want to play a game like that?
2) Who among us are that kind of person?

Apparently Shape thought he was that kind of person, until he was on the receiving end of grief he could not possibly defend himself against.

Bring on the bounties you pathetic, useless, good-for-nothing, Itani / UIT trader scumbags...

Yarrrr!!!!!

Okay, so 5% of high levels is quite a lot, but if you think about it, so's a million credits. Not a lot of people have so many millions of credits that they're willing to part with it that quickly.

With player death having no meaning (as mentioned earlier) isn't the bounty system an artificial way to create meaning?

Player death isn't important, and isn't even inconvientient if you use it right (i've used suicide to make trade runs faster). The 5% XP is just a way to make dying an issue, but I think it might be in the wrong place.

With the bouny system as is, it doesn't make death an issue, it makes pissing off someone with money an issue. I sure don't want to spend the time to bot for XP I already earned unless there is a damn good reason.

Just seems to be a fix for the wrong problem.

Like one guy said, getting the million also takes some time, maybe not as much for some as for others. I always said, and im sure somebody could quote me on this, uhum, the best pirates are low leveled ones and keep their levels low for a reason. <-- refused to go above level 4 for a while.

Maybe rather than 5% across the board, it should be simply combat levels affected, i also hate botting for hours/trading for cash, and would hate to loose 5% of my trade/mining levels, as i really dont want to do them again.

Also how exaclty do you upset a nation? I tried several times today to get a nation generated bounty, including shooting several station guards, a marshal, and a player outside a UIT station, but inside the no fire zone, no bounty?

I did actually say ingame yesterday i think that bounty bot did not work either, and thats what this looks like to me, the nation generated bounties fine, not so sure about player based ones <-- Loosing all my levels sounds like a real fun thing to do, not, but if im constantly shooting people in nation space, i think i deserve to...

...the only other option is for me to bot/trade my standing to +600 UIT/Itani to protect myself from bounties. Hmmm, look for me /exploding near you soon! heh

[knocked back 5% to Suggestions]

I think that taking away experience is a less-than-ideal method. I would suggest a percentage value of your cash would be more appropriate.

Lone Post:

I tend to think the problem is not with the penalty, but is related to how much people hate botting.

Maybe make pvp worth good chunks of combat experience? Make botting quicker?

I don't know. The reason this 5% thing scares people is because it was so annoying to gain the experience in the first place, that's the problem to fix.

Bounties need to hurt in some non-monetary fashion or they are totally exploitable and dumb. Can anyone think of a way other than an experience hit?

<ot>
>You traders want a pirate free universe? Go get an excel
>spreadsheet and fill it with random prices, separate them by 10
>thousand cells (to give you that nice "traveling" feeling), then
>you can sell back and forth, if you'd like I could give you a
>price equation based on how much you've sold.

Hahahahahaha! separate them by 10 thousand cells
Hahahahahahahaha!

Now I can play Vendetta at work and the boss will think I'm doing accounting. Awesome! What cell did I leave my ascii Atlas in \==>
</ot>

Ouch 1,000,000 to dock someone else 5%.

Shape you said 1 bot is too many, what about 1 PVP kill?
Just an example but say you lose 5% due to a bounty being collected on you but [1,2,or 5] PVP kills later you have gained 5% back.

The general idea being make your experience level (at least in combat) a more fluid and unstable value. It goes up easy, it goes down easy as well. I am not sure it would be a good idea but what do others think?

[edit] take to long to compose an idea and someone else says it better, heh.

[edit2] Sounds like solutions are in the works.
http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/7997#93406

So if I get what you are saying, the bounty system didn't solve any game play issues - just made new ones.

I'm completely shocked. Just shocked, I tell you.

*rolls eyes*

I bet the bounty is going to be useless soon.

According to me the 5% lost is fine.

problem is the bountie Hunter statut = lose nothing.

plz do not listen carebears!
You already secure all stations for them.
reason why there are not real pirates (or only few) in game.
and no real FvF (unless the CtC).

bounty is a good idea.
with the 5% or 1% lose.

the problem come from your bountie hunter statut.
being a bountie hunter you have no risk.
so if everybody are bountie hunters i feel why Shape is worried.
killing somone make them only lose a lit moneys and send them to homestation. But they will come back after you 30 sec later.
So if you have a bountie on your head you will fall.

I like the idea of getting combat experience for PvP. We really, really need that. Perhaps have it commensurate with level differences, the player's PK ration and ships?

For example, each combat level below you knocks 500 off the standard amount (I dunno, 1000?) Each combat level above you adds 500 exp.

Then ship classes are ranked, etc.

*drools and twists his long Serco moustache*

Hummmmm...

and it appears i dont have to post my concerns after all. thanks shape, this is exactly what i was worried about, but couldnt figure out how to phrase it last night, so i deferred posting until today.

A few possible solutions.

1. You cant collect a bounty inside a no-fire area, or in a sector monitored by a faction that the person who has the bounty isnt KOS with.

2. Give the 5% loss a hard cap, eg (5% or ####xp, whichever is lower.)

3. make the license levels "hard" levels, so that once you have passed them you cant drop back below that XP level, but instead take a monetary hit, or are forced to respawn in one of your nations capital stations.

4. Provide some penalty for bounty hunting, perhaps make it an active mission where you cant be in another mission when doing it.
----4b Give the bounty hunter an XP loss if he/she is killed by someone who's bounty s/he can collect.
----4C Make hunters concentrate on 1 or 2 bounties. They have to declare who they are hunting, and only so many people can choose to hunt the same bounties. Once those bounties have the max hunters, they are marked on that bounty list as unhuntable. (make it a basis of the total bounty, 1 possible hunter per million credit bounty? a person with a 3mil bounty can have a max of 3 hunters)

5. Seperate the nations as far as bounty hunting is concerned. Give each nation/faction its own bounty hunter list, that way you have to buy the licensing fee seperately for each nation and have to choose which nation you are hunting for at any given time.

I am a true PvPer.

True PvPer like idea of losing something when he die.
and win something when he kill (loot)

PvP = fear of death.

You won't never lure PvPers if the game is too easy and peaceful.

all PvP games that followed the peaceful death go down.

i understand why people dislike when they die and lose stuffs.
But for Pvpers it's the reason why they love it.

New to Vendetta but old enough to have played on every computer and console since the ZX spectrum.Highly impressed with VO, and last night's introduction of a bounty system was a step in the right direction. In purely role-playing terms I cannot imagine a society that would allow its citizens to be constantly and repeatedly murdered without some sort of reprisal. Any romantic notion of the dashing, heroic, swashbuckling buccaneer was, and still is, complete rubbish - Pirates are essentially thieves and murderers, and should be treated as such. State sponsored Bounty hunting/private sector assassination is inevitable, where the governments lack the resources,the will, or the skilled professionals to do the job themselves.(cf. modern day US bail/bounty system). Pre-bounty pirates had nothing to lose, now they have their precious levels at stake (not to mention their egos)-thats the one that really hurts! happy hunting!!

I think the best way to solve this would be either

a) pretty large combat XP gains from PvP kills

or

b) once you have gained a licence level you cannot lose it, although you may go below the XP threshold.

more likely the first one or the first + the second together

Well, I've gotten my UIT Bounty Hunters license and have looked for shape myself to collect that juicy 1mill bounty, but everyone is correct, the way it has been implemented in not the best way to do it. I myself don't know how to make it that much better but there were a few suggestions already that I think are worth flushing out. Such as:

%xp or "x" ammount of xp, wichever is smaller for death by bounty.

Each faction/nation has there own bounty list and you can only collect bounties from factions you are registered. (x number or able registrations, not all)

if bounty hunter is killed by bounty, the bounty hunter would incur a % of the %loss that the bounty would incur. (say 50%)

if you loose xp that takes you below a license level you do not loose the level, but have to regain the xp before you can continue to the next license level. (regain of lossed xp without loss of level as pertains to a bounty kill)

If people don't like having bounties on there heads, they should think about how they treat those that they pillage in space more carefully. There are quite a few player killers out there and you don't see bounties on there heads, I wonder why??