Forums » Suggestions
Hey,
while some people create rage threads on the General forum, I'd like to adress something that bothered me for quite a while (and is one of the reasons I don't subscribe).
That 'something' is the lack of transparency when it comes to what is planned, there is no 'What we are working on' point in the sidebar and also no 'Roadmap'. Sure, I/you/we can ask Incarnate (or one of the other people at VO) what's going on or what is planned but that get's annoying for both sides as time goes on. Also, another problem, some people in the community want to have feature X or bug Y fixed, which, in most cases, won't happen close in time since the developers are occupied with other stuff.
Now, my proposal to solve this mess once and for all would be to create a vote once/timeframe (quarter/month/bi-weekly, whatever timeframe is appropiate) on what should be secondary 'projects' for that timeframe. Meaning if there is a primary project 'porting VO to iPad' going on, a fraction of the total development time available is spend on that secondary 'project' and it'll be put into the game at the end of the timeframe (if all goes well) and a new vote will be cast.
Every subscribed(!) person has one vote to cast per timeframe and whatever get's the most votes will be the secondary project for the next timeframe.
Example for projects could be stuff like TRS's complain about the price of gatling guns (http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/1/27552?page=2#334287) (since I haven't played VO for some time I don't know if that's really a problem, but I'll take it as an example)
The timeframe is either fixed (meaning even if it's a small task, it'll be the only one for the timeframe) or is decided by GuildSoftware for each task after the voting ended. If something is on the voting list that'd take far too long or too complex as a secondary project GuildSoftware can remove the item from the voting list.
As to how project ideas to vote on would be submitted...I'm not sure. The list shouldn't be that big (less than 5 items/timeframe) but the decision which ideas are on there have to be decided somewhere. Maybe randomized out of all ideas?
Also ideas should be structured, for example, like this:
What should be done? (the idea itself)
Why should it be done? (simply put: what will be the desired effect and, if it isn't self explaining, why that needs to be done)
tl;dr GuildSoftware should sometimes do something the paying community wants even when a big project is going on.
while some people create rage threads on the General forum, I'd like to adress something that bothered me for quite a while (and is one of the reasons I don't subscribe).
That 'something' is the lack of transparency when it comes to what is planned, there is no 'What we are working on' point in the sidebar and also no 'Roadmap'. Sure, I/you/we can ask Incarnate (or one of the other people at VO) what's going on or what is planned but that get's annoying for both sides as time goes on. Also, another problem, some people in the community want to have feature X or bug Y fixed, which, in most cases, won't happen close in time since the developers are occupied with other stuff.
Now, my proposal to solve this mess once and for all would be to create a vote once/timeframe (quarter/month/bi-weekly, whatever timeframe is appropiate) on what should be secondary 'projects' for that timeframe. Meaning if there is a primary project 'porting VO to iPad' going on, a fraction of the total development time available is spend on that secondary 'project' and it'll be put into the game at the end of the timeframe (if all goes well) and a new vote will be cast.
Every subscribed(!) person has one vote to cast per timeframe and whatever get's the most votes will be the secondary project for the next timeframe.
Example for projects could be stuff like TRS's complain about the price of gatling guns (http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/1/27552?page=2#334287) (since I haven't played VO for some time I don't know if that's really a problem, but I'll take it as an example)
The timeframe is either fixed (meaning even if it's a small task, it'll be the only one for the timeframe) or is decided by GuildSoftware for each task after the voting ended. If something is on the voting list that'd take far too long or too complex as a secondary project GuildSoftware can remove the item from the voting list.
As to how project ideas to vote on would be submitted...I'm not sure. The list shouldn't be that big (less than 5 items/timeframe) but the decision which ideas are on there have to be decided somewhere. Maybe randomized out of all ideas?
Also ideas should be structured, for example, like this:
What should be done? (the idea itself)
Why should it be done? (simply put: what will be the desired effect and, if it isn't self explaining, why that needs to be done)
tl;dr GuildSoftware should sometimes do something the paying community wants even when a big project is going on.
Yes the gatling gun thing is still stupid, but I made a thread for us to post all the simple value tweaks that we think should occur:
http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/27563
http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/27563
hmm, maybe one could, if the majority of playing people agrees, make that complete list a secondary project. If this suggestion is well received, of course.
The criteria for inclusion in the game is whether or not it fits into Incarnate's vision. This game would be fricking terrible if the most popular suggestions were the ones that got implemented.
"This game would be fricking terrible if the most popular suggestions were the ones that got implemented."
As the biggest/most vocal guilds are care bears, +1.
As for the OP, as much as I would love to have a say in game direction... (more than we all have)... the devs, although they anger me with many choices they make... they make decisions based on VO continuing to exist.
As the biggest/most vocal guilds are care bears, +1.
As for the OP, as much as I would love to have a say in game direction... (more than we all have)... the devs, although they anger me with many choices they make... they make decisions based on VO continuing to exist.
Yeah star citizen looks like the standard dealio in terms of implement whatever is popular and charge a micro transaction for it. All the monetization is based on hype and popularity and it isn't even a game yet. VO is a lovely contrast.
their money bags approach to SC is really turning me off, I don't see VO being horribly stomped out of existence by them anymore each time they post a new beg for money and disguise it as feature update
-1. I'd rather have Incarnate steer the game.
I think we all agree that a game is not designed by committee, let alone by a plebiscite.
However, as Inc recently said, people pay money for this game at least partly based on what we think it could become. We see the potential, and we understand the limits (and benefits!) of the indie-developer nature of GS, and we thoroughly enjoy the game and community as it is already. But still, it would be nice to feel less in-the-dark about the direction (and speed) of progress.
The two are not mutually exclusive. We have a forum where everyone can post stupid and brilliant ideas, and this is very active and contains good ideas and a lot of consensus.
What would be nice is a list of improvements that Inc is planning on making to the game, and the ability to comment, vote (non-binding), and donate to specific goals. That way, we have a sense of participating and can give feedback that GS can use or ignore at their own discretion, without taking the steering wheel out of their hands. This forum should probably only be open to subscribers, or at least the comments and votes.
However, as Inc recently said, people pay money for this game at least partly based on what we think it could become. We see the potential, and we understand the limits (and benefits!) of the indie-developer nature of GS, and we thoroughly enjoy the game and community as it is already. But still, it would be nice to feel less in-the-dark about the direction (and speed) of progress.
The two are not mutually exclusive. We have a forum where everyone can post stupid and brilliant ideas, and this is very active and contains good ideas and a lot of consensus.
What would be nice is a list of improvements that Inc is planning on making to the game, and the ability to comment, vote (non-binding), and donate to specific goals. That way, we have a sense of participating and can give feedback that GS can use or ignore at their own discretion, without taking the steering wheel out of their hands. This forum should probably only be open to subscribers, or at least the comments and votes.
That 'something' is the lack of transparency when it comes to what is planned, there is no 'What we are working on' point in the sidebar and also no 'Roadmap'.
Lack of transparency? Incarnate has said many times the roadmap is the same as the kickstarter goals, but without the infusion of operating funds, they'll be needing a lot more pitstops on that road.
I patently disagree that a team of 4 people should have their punch list prioritized by popular vote.
Lack of transparency? Incarnate has said many times the roadmap is the same as the kickstarter goals, but without the infusion of operating funds, they'll be needing a lot more pitstops on that road.
I patently disagree that a team of 4 people should have their punch list prioritized by popular vote.
One of the things they've been claiming is "Coming Soon" (for about 6 years now) is a tracking system to show what's open and where it is. I leave it to you to decide how likely you are to see that pop up before the next mobile platform is announced.
vote
-1
-1
One of the things they've been claiming is "Coming Soon" (for about 6 years now) is a tracking system to show what's open and where it is. I leave it to you to decide how likely you are to see that pop up before the next mobile platform is announced.
It was a goal in the Kickstarter. It would basically take me a month of doing nothing else, to put it together. I still want to do that, as it would really help a lot of our communication challenges with the playerbase that result in some of the frustration-threads. But, I don't know exactly when I'll be able to produce it. I think a half-assed version might just make things worse, which is why it's been stalled for so long.
Also, we have no other mobile platforms planned, unless you include like iPhone eventually or whatever (and you were one of the people who asked for iOS support, multiple times).
Back to the topic at hand.. I've long been kicking around the idea of making the Suggestions forum a subscriber-only posting area, and allowing subscribers to vote on suggestions. It would require some significant changes to how it all worked for that to function in a useful way, and the number of "votes" would by no means imply that I would agree with (or implement) the suggestion or not, but rather it would be an easier way for people to support ideas they thought had merit. People basically do this anyway with the whole "+/-" posting thing, this would just give it some more structure.
But that's not really a high priority, particularly compared to having some kind of online wiki / trac that shows where we're going and what we're doing.
It was a goal in the Kickstarter. It would basically take me a month of doing nothing else, to put it together. I still want to do that, as it would really help a lot of our communication challenges with the playerbase that result in some of the frustration-threads. But, I don't know exactly when I'll be able to produce it. I think a half-assed version might just make things worse, which is why it's been stalled for so long.
Also, we have no other mobile platforms planned, unless you include like iPhone eventually or whatever (and you were one of the people who asked for iOS support, multiple times).
Back to the topic at hand.. I've long been kicking around the idea of making the Suggestions forum a subscriber-only posting area, and allowing subscribers to vote on suggestions. It would require some significant changes to how it all worked for that to function in a useful way, and the number of "votes" would by no means imply that I would agree with (or implement) the suggestion or not, but rather it would be an easier way for people to support ideas they thought had merit. People basically do this anyway with the whole "+/-" posting thing, this would just give it some more structure.
But that's not really a high priority, particularly compared to having some kind of online wiki / trac that shows where we're going and what we're doing.
the idea of making the Suggestions forum a subscriber-only posting area
+1
+1
It was a goal in the Kickstarter.
It was broached just a bit earlier than that:
Hopefully I can crank out a lot of stuff on the Trac system over the next week or so, and then just post it publicly for everyone to read.
-Inc., circa December 2006. http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/15640?page=2#197731
It was broached just a bit earlier than that:
Hopefully I can crank out a lot of stuff on the Trac system over the next week or so, and then just post it publicly for everyone to read.
-Inc., circa December 2006. http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/15640?page=2#197731
In case you missed it Lecter:
I think a half-assed version might just make things worse, which is why it's been stalled for so long.
- Inc., circa today.
I think a half-assed version might just make things worse, which is why it's been stalled for so long.
- Inc., circa today.
If you need 6+ years to generate a non half-assed version of anything, you're doing something wrong.
-Me, circa now.
-Me, circa now.
"I've long been kicking around the idea of making the Suggestions forum a subscriber-only posting area"
+1
"and allowing subscribers to vote on suggestions."
-0.25, assuming you mean a simple rating system for the thread, to show which threads people like. If you mean a typical forum poll system, then -3.
+1
"and allowing subscribers to vote on suggestions."
-0.25, assuming you mean a simple rating system for the thread, to show which threads people like. If you mean a typical forum poll system, then -3.
It was broached just a bit earlier than that:
Thank you Sherlock, I was mentioning the Kickstarter to point out that it was still something on the very-recent goal list.
If you need 6+ years to generate a non half-assed version of anything, you're doing something wrong.
You're right, trying to make bloody MMO with 3-4 people is probably doing something wrong.
It was de-prioritized, in case that isn't stunningly frigging obvious, usually in favor of things that kept money coming in, or had a hope of maybe making money come in, or staving off some kind of catastrophic game failure. I would'ave liked to have re-done the sound effects six years ago too, or half the graphics. Yes, I was optimistic about when it would get done six years ago. I'm clearly a deranged goddamn optimist or I wouldn't have tried making this game like MacGyver with roll of toilet paper and a rock. I would have just stopped, or given up, like everyone else.
Part of the problem is the scale of what I was trying to do with exposing the whole Trac system, and the ramifications that has for requiring everyone else to constantly update their development progress in a particular way (which they refuse to do), and be aware of what information can be public and what will violate NDA, and so on. There ended up being a lot of challenges, inter-personal and organizational and otherwise, which were just WAY freakin' more than I had time for. Getting the stupid Trac online was NOT more important than keeping us in business, and I am in no way apologizing for my (correct, sane) retrospective priority choices.
Maybe my capacity is limited by my diminished health, but I am pretty much at my weekly limit for dealing with self-righteously embittered douchebaggery; so I leave the ongoing discussion to the userbase. I'm going to avoid the forums for a few days and perhaps get some actual work done.
Thank you Sherlock, I was mentioning the Kickstarter to point out that it was still something on the very-recent goal list.
If you need 6+ years to generate a non half-assed version of anything, you're doing something wrong.
You're right, trying to make bloody MMO with 3-4 people is probably doing something wrong.
It was de-prioritized, in case that isn't stunningly frigging obvious, usually in favor of things that kept money coming in, or had a hope of maybe making money come in, or staving off some kind of catastrophic game failure. I would'ave liked to have re-done the sound effects six years ago too, or half the graphics. Yes, I was optimistic about when it would get done six years ago. I'm clearly a deranged goddamn optimist or I wouldn't have tried making this game like MacGyver with roll of toilet paper and a rock. I would have just stopped, or given up, like everyone else.
Part of the problem is the scale of what I was trying to do with exposing the whole Trac system, and the ramifications that has for requiring everyone else to constantly update their development progress in a particular way (which they refuse to do), and be aware of what information can be public and what will violate NDA, and so on. There ended up being a lot of challenges, inter-personal and organizational and otherwise, which were just WAY freakin' more than I had time for. Getting the stupid Trac online was NOT more important than keeping us in business, and I am in no way apologizing for my (correct, sane) retrospective priority choices.
Maybe my capacity is limited by my diminished health, but I am pretty much at my weekly limit for dealing with self-righteously embittered douchebaggery; so I leave the ongoing discussion to the userbase. I'm going to avoid the forums for a few days and perhaps get some actual work done.
Kick ass Incarnate, new from Mattel, batteries not included.
Only $9.99 with your purchase of self-righteously embittered douchebaggery!
That was awesome.
Only $9.99 with your purchase of self-righteously embittered douchebaggery!
That was awesome.