And I thank all that is holy for that.

A quick response on the original post..

So there are those that are bypassing the faction system since it's "improvement" or the dialogue never came up (like it didn't for my valent/axia, except i reported it) and people are keeping hush hush about it. So this is one current issue that needs to be looked at.

We did a database search for any character that has double-Admire with the mutually exclusive factions, and did not find any current characters (there are still those who have not logged in, or who have logged off rather than make the enforced faction-choice). Players may be able to flip sides pretty quickly (or other issues we need to address).. I can't speak to that right this instant; but there should be no cases of characters with double-Admire.

If we're missing something on this, please let us know, as it is a bug. There isn't a lot of point in my trying to polish up the faction system if there's an actual exploit of some kind.

Relating to the other stuff.. I'll comment at another time. I welcome ongoing feedback about the current state of the faction system and where we're hurting the most, so to speak.

Users may build their characters in any direction they desire

"This is true, but you actually have to pick a direction. You may be an Itani nationalist, a Serco warrior, or a UIT trader."

That would be three directions and not any direction.

Bungarus, as it is clear that you can only see and understand what is laid out in front of you...

Here is a list of every RP Style/profession/combination I have encountered in my years of VO.

Most Common

Nationalist
Pirate or Privateer
Trader
Miner

Nationalist Privateer
Trader Miner

Less Common

Spy
Thief
Con Artist
Terrorist*
Freedom Fighter*
Saboteur
Mechanic
Vigilante
Explorer
Ship Builder
Diplomat

Trader Spy
Trader Saboteur
Saboteur Spy
Saboteur Thief
Vigilante Trader
Vigilante terrorist*
Vigilante Freedom Fighter*
Explorer Trader
Explorer Miner

Unique (So far as I can recall)**

Mad Miner
Cannibal
Singing Pirate
Nationalist Freedom Fighter Conman Spy
Ignorant Inbred Hillbilly
Cranky Old Scottish Guy
Insane Explorer

* Indicates that the two are the same, separated only buy individual perspective.
** Indicates individual players

I edited this tread to remove useless name-calling.

Good grief. Too much damned regurgitation.

+ 1 for more guild nerfing aka faction limitations as outlined in the op and hopefully intelligently discussed post Bungarus

But for now, I'm gagging out of this thread.

ryan reign,

it was Lecter who reduced the game to three directions.

No, he listed three common directions.

"That would be three directions and not any direction"

You reduced the game to three directions through a general lack of experience, a stunning ignorance, the apparent ability to only see what is pointed out, ignore what doesn't strengthen your perspective and turn the abstract into the literal... (All of which applies to every time you've regurgitated your original point).

I do disagree with whomever it was who suggested that guilds like VPR or individuals combating criminal activities do not represent UIT when they engage 'hostile' elements in that nations space. Unless there is a mechanism (and there have been a number suggested over the years) in place that allows them to act in a defensive manner in UIT space, then by default I believe you are incorporating and validating the faction manipulation currently used by players to 'hunt' or 'pirate' or whatever in that space.

For this reason I support any of the plans that have been presented in other threads that either immediately or progressively prevent any player who reaches a standing of hate from ever achieving above neutral or at most respect (in it's current meaningless form). Any recovery of standing should be excruciatingly difficult as opposed to the current idiocy of a few XC loads of plasteel to the Ukari station.

Now I don't have any problem with a player who wants to use UIT space as a hunting ground, but any faction changes should be designed in such a way that does not lead to the 'pirate' element having higher trade licenses than many 'peaceful' folk. It should also be designed in such a way that an intelligent player can defend against piracy or whatever without the consequence of the faction system being used against them.

Permanent faction penalties are a bad idea. Accidents happen, and it would suck for an honest trader to accidentally permanently lose the ability to be admired. Making it painful to fix is alright though. I agree on that count; it is too easy for me to fix my standings. With the nations, I mean. With the minor factions, it is too easy if you are only disliked, but too hard if you are hated. Make a better way to get out of hateded-ness than throwing escorts at them, and I'll agree to making the rest of the recovery with them harder as well.

The only thing that I would say be permanent is someone who willing delists from the serco/itani military (national disobedience) not "accidents" that happen, It would have to be done in such a way like you joined the military in the first place.

No single player should have high enough standing with both Itani and Serco at the same time to obtain high-end equipment of both factions.

Shifting faction standing from one of the opposing factions to the other should be possible but appropriately difficult.

Standing with one of the opposing factions should not be low enough to trigger the automatic defenses only because the standing with the other opposing faction is high enough to obtain that faction's high-end equipment.

Standing with one of the opposing factions should not be low enough to trigger the automatic defenses only because the standing with the other opposing faction is high enough to obtain that faction's high-end equipment.

Why? The high-end nation exclusive equipment is meant for people whose goals align with the nation in question. In the case of Serco and Itani they aren't too fond of each other, so I don't see why they would give top military equipment to people who are friendly enough with the other side that they can dock and trade there.

I'm with slime73 on this one. Nobody should ever be able to buy a SkyCommand Prometheus or an IDV Valkyrie Vigilant and happily waltz past the enemy's wormhole blockade with the ship they just purchased without being fired at.

+1 to Slime and ARF - and it's a cold day in Hell when I say that.

"Why?"

Because it would nerf multifactional guilds as well as UIT guilds to the extent of preventing a group of members from different factions respectively a group of members where some use Itani equipment and some use Serco equipment from operating in about half of the game universe.

First, for any given pilot, it's about a quarter of the universe, not half. Second, why should "multinational guilds" get any different treatment than individual pilots? If [VPR] wants to have a Serco space response team, those [VPR] should have the approriate Serco standing; ditto for Itani space--it has never been the case that multinational guilds have only worked well when all their members could go everywhere. The only arguable exception is TGFT, which consistently exploited the bloated faction standings system to ensure that killing them anywhere monitored/guarded would always result in the faction standing loss that comes with killing a POS pilot--but that's not what you're whining about as far as I can tell from your stilted English.

You have yet to advance an argument that justifies gutting the enhanced faction system and the useful conflict it generates, when all this could be avoided by any given guild realizing that being a multinational guild doesn't magically make its members nonnationals, and adjusting their approach accordingly.

Now, it may be the case that UIT needs a more militarized top-end ship rather than the maud they have now, so that a UIT who chooses to be neutral with both sides still has a decent (though not SCP or X1 level, given the backstory) option for combat hardware. But that's obviously not an option you've spent any time considering.

+1 Lecter, there's no reason a multifactional guild needs all their members to be able to go to 100% of the universe.

And I'm also confused, exactly why does VPR need to send their same group of players everywhere?

I really can't imagine what business VPR has in itani and serco space...

(But maybe if the VPR's learned a little bit from the pirates they lambast, they'd realize that they can STILL go to 100% of the universe)

"First, for any given pilot, it's about a quarter of the universe"

I was talking of multifactional guilds and UIT guilds, not of single pilots. For the guilds it is half the universe. But I think a quarter of the universe is also awful.

"Second, why should "multinational guilds" get any different treatment than individual pilots?"

There should be no different treatment because a quarter of the universe for a single pilot who does not take part in the faction conflict would be awful enough.

"If [VPR] wants to have a Serco space response team, those [VPR] should have the approriate Serco standing"

Utterly ridiculous. Imagine a guild with 20 members. Say 5 are online at the same time. Say 3 are ready to form a wing. Now imagine a guild with 10 members. You get the picture.

"being a multinational guild doesn't magically make its members nonnationals"

Being of any faction (with being of no faction is no choice in the game) does not justify to be massacred by auto-defense if one does not take part in any faction conflict whatsoever.

Kindly do us all a favor, Bung****, and kill two birds with one stone (so to speak): waltz yourself down to Waziristan and go wander around some. Be sure to drive around in a US military issue vehicle. You won't have to do this too long.

When the locals grab you and put you up on camera in front of a flag, explain to them (if given a chance before they go Nick Berg, et al. on you) that although you're a citizen of Western nation X, you're not taking part in any...conflict whatsoever between them and the West.

Let us know how it goes--or we'll just catch it on YouTube.