Forums » Suggestions
Yeah, I know. Found that out the hard way :)
One minor tweak I would like to see is to make the Greyspace factions a good deal more corrupt, especially Corvus. As it stands now, a complete n00b can mosey on down to Grey and if they're careful to stay out of the way of our more rapacious players, said n00b can acquire quite decent stuff from Corvus without any real repercussions.
This is most assuredly NOT how it goes if an obvious outsider wombles on down into the bad part of any town I know. Best case scenario here is they get mugged and if they've any sense then high-tail it out of the area.
Corvus in-game is a piratical faction; they ought to be somehow sleazy, the station guards by turns incompetent, indolent and downright mercenery. If you turn up to a Corvus station with low standing and a 'moth, then you ought to briefly see most of the local guard turn out rapidly to kill you and loot your goods; conversely turning up with a well-armed ship ought to get a much less aggressive response. Turning up with decent Corvus standing to Corvus ought to make them more welcoming, BUT high Corvus standing ought to get the pilot repeatedly warned by major factions to behave themselves, or to pay a "surety deposit" for good behaviour or even to get shadowed in nationspace for being a possible subversive. Greyspace guards also need to be shifty, unreliable arses, prone to asking for bribes "to prevent trouble" and so on.
Moreover this sort of thing needs to be variable; a pilot of mostly neutral Serco aspect might be tolerated most times, and aggressively told to keep out if Serco-Itani relations are particularly tense (this tension to reflect the Deneb situation at any one time).
The key here has to be variability.
Finally, we need an element of politics of the "Gunboat Diplomacy" variety. Say one major faction has lost too many convoys through Grey. Assume all VO factions are vaguely democratic, so if too heavy losses are incurred, the High Command of each side will be vigorously encouraged to Do Something About It. Most earthly nations respond by sending out a military task-force to show the flag and generally put the fear into local pirates. VO factions could be reasonably expected to do the same, so occasional patrols-in-force by Itani or Serco battle-groups ought to become a part of life down in Grey; all part of making it a dangerous and exciting place to be.
Sending miitary patrols, BTW, would not require much if any additional code.
This is most assuredly NOT how it goes if an obvious outsider wombles on down into the bad part of any town I know. Best case scenario here is they get mugged and if they've any sense then high-tail it out of the area.
Corvus in-game is a piratical faction; they ought to be somehow sleazy, the station guards by turns incompetent, indolent and downright mercenery. If you turn up to a Corvus station with low standing and a 'moth, then you ought to briefly see most of the local guard turn out rapidly to kill you and loot your goods; conversely turning up with a well-armed ship ought to get a much less aggressive response. Turning up with decent Corvus standing to Corvus ought to make them more welcoming, BUT high Corvus standing ought to get the pilot repeatedly warned by major factions to behave themselves, or to pay a "surety deposit" for good behaviour or even to get shadowed in nationspace for being a possible subversive. Greyspace guards also need to be shifty, unreliable arses, prone to asking for bribes "to prevent trouble" and so on.
Moreover this sort of thing needs to be variable; a pilot of mostly neutral Serco aspect might be tolerated most times, and aggressively told to keep out if Serco-Itani relations are particularly tense (this tension to reflect the Deneb situation at any one time).
The key here has to be variability.
Finally, we need an element of politics of the "Gunboat Diplomacy" variety. Say one major faction has lost too many convoys through Grey. Assume all VO factions are vaguely democratic, so if too heavy losses are incurred, the High Command of each side will be vigorously encouraged to Do Something About It. Most earthly nations respond by sending out a military task-force to show the flag and generally put the fear into local pirates. VO factions could be reasonably expected to do the same, so occasional patrols-in-force by Itani or Serco battle-groups ought to become a part of life down in Grey; all part of making it a dangerous and exciting place to be.
Sending miitary patrols, BTW, would not require much if any additional code.
"or even to get shadowed in nationspace for being a possible subversive."
Heck yeah. Dispatch a half-sized non-hostile strike force to just follow us around and glare at us. That would be awesome. As the faction system and penalty system are improved, it could be based on past history as well. The UIT should really know better by now than to let my wander around their space without an escort.
+4
Heck yeah. Dispatch a half-sized non-hostile strike force to just follow us around and glare at us. That would be awesome. As the faction system and penalty system are improved, it could be based on past history as well. The UIT should really know better by now than to let my wander around their space without an escort.
+4
Not new ideas, but surely better than ever!
-Make Corvus more "pirate"
--> As consequence, make UIT become antagonic to Corvus (mutually exclusive)
((going OT from now on, stop reading if you get offended))
-Make grayspace guards more corrupt, and interactive
-Create border guard, to intercept any incoming player crossing borders (Later scan cargo/contraband)
-Increase number of NPCs in space
-- More large voys, better escorted, with weapons and ship components
-- Alternating military voys crossing gray (Timed so they never meet)
-- More lone haulers, merchants in fast ships with exotic cargos
-- Mining parties
-Make Corvus more "pirate"
--> As consequence, make UIT become antagonic to Corvus (mutually exclusive)
((going OT from now on, stop reading if you get offended))
-Make grayspace guards more corrupt, and interactive
-Create border guard, to intercept any incoming player crossing borders (Later scan cargo/contraband)
-Increase number of NPCs in space
-- More large voys, better escorted, with weapons and ship components
-- Alternating military voys crossing gray (Timed so they never meet)
-- More lone haulers, merchants in fast ships with exotic cargos
-- Mining parties
+1 to every word Wyrm said.
This is totally a fabrication on my part, with absolutely no in-game evidence to back it up, but I've always suspected that the Serco Dominion and the Aeolus Trading Prefectorate have been engaged in a quiet border dispute over mining rights in Helios, instigated by the Dominion expanding their mining operations into sectors which the Prefectorate traditionally considers exclusively claimed for themselves.
I dislike predefinded factions (nations) in MMOGs because I want to decide on my own about my roleplay, my allies, and my enemies - based on experiences I make in the game with individual players or guilds they belong to - instead of having to chose a side when creating a character without knowing anybody and being forced into an artificial conflict.
A focus on player-driven guilds is way more interesting than a focus on predefined factions. With guilds you chose your goals and your company. With factions you just enter a predefined lane, you don't have enemies for any reason other than them being the red team and you being the blue team. I think that's quite shallow.
Thinking with UIT I could stay out of the faction conflicts at first, reading this thread nearly prevented me from subscribing. Since this is the last twitch-based space sim MMOG I subscribed anyway, and I am glad I did because it turned out to be a fine game, but still:
I would be quite shocked if VO should head in the completely wrong direction of enforcing factions and nerfing (especially multifactional) guilds. The latter being able to stay out of the predefined factionalism and enjoy the whole of the game world is a big advantage of VO that should not be jeopardized.
In any case this should not be tweaked to the point where it becomes impossible (or only possible by repeated grinding) for multifactional guilds that don't take part in the faction battles (should they be traders, miners, antigriefers, manufacturers, racers or whatever) to operate in any faction's space.
Exclusive faction-specific equipment I find also questionable. (Factions should be either political entities or manufacturing companies, but not both.) Limiting the potential access to interesting equipment makes a game less attractive. I don't say it should be easy to get high end equipment, but it should stay theoretically possible to get any equipment that suits the strenghts, weaknesses and tastes of the individual player. Everybody likes free choice. Lmiting choices means limiting the fun.
This is the point of view of someone who is new to VO but who played both kinds of MMOGs in the past, with focus on predefined factions and with focus on player-driven guilds.
A focus on player-driven guilds is way more interesting than a focus on predefined factions. With guilds you chose your goals and your company. With factions you just enter a predefined lane, you don't have enemies for any reason other than them being the red team and you being the blue team. I think that's quite shallow.
Thinking with UIT I could stay out of the faction conflicts at first, reading this thread nearly prevented me from subscribing. Since this is the last twitch-based space sim MMOG I subscribed anyway, and I am glad I did because it turned out to be a fine game, but still:
I would be quite shocked if VO should head in the completely wrong direction of enforcing factions and nerfing (especially multifactional) guilds. The latter being able to stay out of the predefined factionalism and enjoy the whole of the game world is a big advantage of VO that should not be jeopardized.
In any case this should not be tweaked to the point where it becomes impossible (or only possible by repeated grinding) for multifactional guilds that don't take part in the faction battles (should they be traders, miners, antigriefers, manufacturers, racers or whatever) to operate in any faction's space.
Exclusive faction-specific equipment I find also questionable. (Factions should be either political entities or manufacturing companies, but not both.) Limiting the potential access to interesting equipment makes a game less attractive. I don't say it should be easy to get high end equipment, but it should stay theoretically possible to get any equipment that suits the strenghts, weaknesses and tastes of the individual player. Everybody likes free choice. Lmiting choices means limiting the fun.
This is the point of view of someone who is new to VO but who played both kinds of MMOGs in the past, with focus on predefined factions and with focus on player-driven guilds.
As a loyal Serco and denizen of Free Gray Space, allow me to say that all non Serco are welcome both in Free Gray Space and Serco space. And if their Itani faction rating is anything above Kill on Sight, they will be killed on sight.
I think we should keep this OOC.
Fine...
As a person who plays a loyal Serco and denizen of Free Gray Space, allow me to say that all people who play non Serco are welcome both in Free Gray Space and Serco space. And if their Itani faction rating is anything above Kill on Sight, they will be killed on sight.
As a person who plays a loyal Serco and denizen of Free Gray Space, allow me to say that all people who play non Serco are welcome both in Free Gray Space and Serco space. And if their Itani faction rating is anything above Kill on Sight, they will be killed on sight.
You made the devs dispensable with a LUA script?
Bungarus:
I agree that we should have the freedom to decide our allegiances... to a degree. No amount of your roleplay should enable you to be friends with everybody (And it's bad roleplay to believe that this would be true. Unless you are the glowing avatar of friendship, shooting rainbows and ending all war...)
Roleplay isn't just doing what you want, it's being self-consistent, and the game should reward consistency of character.
Now, if you want to be neutral with everyone, I think that's fine, I think a lot of the rewards for being itani or serco should be available at a premium price to traders on the black market.
I especially agree about being beholden to your selection of nation at the beginning of the game. I think you should be able to change factions based on your actions. My primary character has wanted to be unaligned with the big 3 nations since beta...
I agree that we should have the freedom to decide our allegiances... to a degree. No amount of your roleplay should enable you to be friends with everybody (And it's bad roleplay to believe that this would be true. Unless you are the glowing avatar of friendship, shooting rainbows and ending all war...)
Roleplay isn't just doing what you want, it's being self-consistent, and the game should reward consistency of character.
Now, if you want to be neutral with everyone, I think that's fine, I think a lot of the rewards for being itani or serco should be available at a premium price to traders on the black market.
I especially agree about being beholden to your selection of nation at the beginning of the game. I think you should be able to change factions based on your actions. My primary character has wanted to be unaligned with the big 3 nations since beta...
Big misunderstanding, I have not the slightest interest to be neutral with everyone, I want a game with interesting conflicts to evolve between naturally antagonizing guilds. It's just, as I tried to point out, that a predefined conflict between red and blue has no meaning to me and bores me.
Bungarus: But the conflict between red and blue is part of the landscape. You don't have to join in, but you can't just ignore that it exists.
Also, I wanted to respond to your comment about limiting gameplay = limiting fun. I don't agree with this, if the universe is isotropic, then it doesn't matter what angle you approach it at.
An unlimited universe would also be homogeneous.
Also, I wanted to respond to your comment about limiting gameplay = limiting fun. I don't agree with this, if the universe is isotropic, then it doesn't matter what angle you approach it at.
An unlimited universe would also be homogeneous.
I think it can be ignored to a degree, and as I understand that is the way VO works for a decade for many in UIT or in multifactional guilds. Without UIT and multifactional guilds never in my life had I subscribed.
Yes there have to be limits in gameplay, for instance ship balance: You can only have a heavily armored, but sluggish ship or a fast, but lightly armored ship. But the limits should apply equally to the players depending on decisions they make in the game, and at least the most interesting elements of the game or big parts of the game world should not be locked away.
Locking space because of easily achieved bad standing can be a disaster for multifactional guilds, preventing their ability to operate in both Serco and Itani space.
Interesting thoughts about a healthy dose of inhomogenity (racetracks here, interesting manufacturing mission there, many different combinations of ships and equipment etc.). But to enjoy that you need access to the different elements of the game world.
Yes there have to be limits in gameplay, for instance ship balance: You can only have a heavily armored, but sluggish ship or a fast, but lightly armored ship. But the limits should apply equally to the players depending on decisions they make in the game, and at least the most interesting elements of the game or big parts of the game world should not be locked away.
Locking space because of easily achieved bad standing can be a disaster for multifactional guilds, preventing their ability to operate in both Serco and Itani space.
Interesting thoughts about a healthy dose of inhomogenity (racetracks here, interesting manufacturing mission there, many different combinations of ships and equipment etc.). But to enjoy that you need access to the different elements of the game world.
Bungarus: Respectfully, the idea that everyone should have access to everything regardless of nation is bad game design; it turns the player's choice of nations into a false one. Games are all about making things entertaining by limiting what a player can do, sometimes based on a player's previous actions. Faction exclusivity does not do anything to harm multi-nationalist or neutral guilds, it simply restricts players from having stances which make no sense when put in the context of the game. UIT have always been about relative neutrality in the Serco-Itani conflict and "playing both sides," but only to a degree. Neutrality does not mean "loved by everyone."
"Locking space because of easily achieved bad standing can be a disaster for multifactional guilds, preventing their ability to operate in both Serco and Itani space."
You are finally absolutely right, congrats... must feel good. Remember how it feels, cherish it... just don't get used to it.
See, you're right locking multi-national guilds out of nation space would be incredibly stupid. Fortunately we have fairly smart Devs who would never do that. See, if a guild has multiple nations represented... that guild can go any where they like, maybe certain members cannot but, so what?
I can't go everywhere I'd like to be able to go.I'd love to stroll over to Itani space, dock and sell off all my crap there... but I cannot.
The faction system is what it is and it's still changing and the general consensus is for the better. You don't like it? Deal with it, or don't... just STFU already.
You are finally absolutely right, congrats... must feel good. Remember how it feels, cherish it... just don't get used to it.
See, you're right locking multi-national guilds out of nation space would be incredibly stupid. Fortunately we have fairly smart Devs who would never do that. See, if a guild has multiple nations represented... that guild can go any where they like, maybe certain members cannot but, so what?
I can't go everywhere I'd like to be able to go.I'd love to stroll over to Itani space, dock and sell off all my crap there... but I cannot.
The faction system is what it is and it's still changing and the general consensus is for the better. You don't like it? Deal with it, or don't... just STFU already.
"See, if a guild has multiple nations represented... that guild can go any where they like, maybe certain members cannot but, so what?
If a multifactional guild can't have a group of members from different factions operating in about half of the game universe it is a severe hampering.
"just STFU"
Speaks for itself.
If a multifactional guild can't have a group of members from different factions operating in about half of the game universe it is a severe hampering.
"just STFU"
Speaks for itself.
To reduce the redundance we should only use the new thread from now on.
Here's an example of player driven conflict:
PaKettle and I were friends, guild mates (in fact, I was council in one of your cherished "multinational guilds") and traders.We traded, battled pirates, battled nationalists, mined... we did a whole lot. There was a ton of player driven conflict.
Some things happened. Then some more things happened. (player driven conflict)
Then I left my council seat and Phoenix Alliance. (player driven conflict)
Much later PA and the BLF were enemies. (player driven conflict)
The BLF made some allies. Which led to... player driven conflict.
We went to war. (player driven conflict)
See, and that's just a small group... most of the conflict we have is player driven. We have the war just gives nationalist (who you don't seem to care about) a reason to shoot each other.
The only "player driven conflict" I have seen you involved in is on the forums.
So...
1. Back off until you are more familiar with VO.
2. Until you join a few guilds, stop assuming.
3. Now and then entertain the idea that vets might not be idiots.
4. Gain experience.
5. Hone your skills.
6. Observe Ch. 100 to get an idea what direction things are going.
7. Learn that its just a game and not everyone will like you.
8. Explore the existing universe and what exists already before you start talking about fixing it.
PaKettle and I were friends, guild mates (in fact, I was council in one of your cherished "multinational guilds") and traders.We traded, battled pirates, battled nationalists, mined... we did a whole lot. There was a ton of player driven conflict.
Some things happened. Then some more things happened. (player driven conflict)
Then I left my council seat and Phoenix Alliance. (player driven conflict)
Much later PA and the BLF were enemies. (player driven conflict)
The BLF made some allies. Which led to... player driven conflict.
We went to war. (player driven conflict)
See, and that's just a small group... most of the conflict we have is player driven. We have the war just gives nationalist (who you don't seem to care about) a reason to shoot each other.
The only "player driven conflict" I have seen you involved in is on the forums.
So...
1. Back off until you are more familiar with VO.
2. Until you join a few guilds, stop assuming.
3. Now and then entertain the idea that vets might not be idiots.
4. Gain experience.
5. Hone your skills.
6. Observe Ch. 100 to get an idea what direction things are going.
7. Learn that its just a game and not everyone will like you.
8. Explore the existing universe and what exists already before you start talking about fixing it.