10/25/11 19:55:28] [100] IRC <CrazySpence> and my first pk was blaster carrying the gold flgag and he had such raaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaage at me for that
[10/25/11 19:55:54] [100] IRC <CrazySpence> sorry carrying the blue flag, he was gold, cant carry your own! lol
[10/25/11 19:55:58] [100] <yodaofborg> Ah, i found vo on happy penguin too, I think there is still a review on me after alienb locked me in s10 for TWO WHOLE WEEKS.
[10/25/11 19:57:04] [100] <yodaofborg> Then I strolled into s7 in a death coffin with avalons, and it was not nice, lol
*Kagan: Entered radar range. Is at 100% health and is 521m away.
*Kagan: New standings: I:Admire S:Respect U:Admire L:Respect
[10/25/11 19:57:56] yodaofborg destroyed Kagan
Kagan: Left radar range.
[10/25/11 19:57:59] [100] <Straka> my ping is bad today
Kagan: Left the sector.
[10/25/11 19:58:04] [100] IRC <CrazySpence> i dont know why the devs still fear avalons, they are just a 25m/s TU mine and there are far more safeties in station systems than back then heh
[10/25/11 19:58:19] [100] <yodaofborg> Kagan, put neutron blaster and jackhammers on that thing.
[10/25/11 19:58:55] [100] <yodaofborg> Yeah, not defbots are at every station, its not like I could hang in Dau-l10 popping stuff for long.
[10/25/11 19:59:05] [100] <yodaofborg> now*
[10/25/11 19:59:31] [100] IRC <CrazySpence> the problem was then you could fire them all dock reload and do it again, if you killed anything in a station system now (aside from corvus) you'd be factioned our and unable to reload.
[10/25/11 19:59:42] [100] IRC <CrazySpence> out*
[10/25/11 20:00:18] [100] IRC <CrazySpence> they really should just bring them back heh
[10/25/11 20:01:00] [100] <Straka> fuuuuuck
[10/25/11 20:01:05] [100] <Straka> stupid ping!
[10/25/11 20:01:30] [100] <Straka> i just bought a lot of missiles and when i docked at another station i accidentally sold it
[10/25/11 20:01:33] [100] <Straka> ****!
[10/25/11 20:01:41] [100] <Kostya> hehehehehehhe
[10/25/11 20:01:46] [100] <Pirren> lolol
[10/25/11 20:01:50] [100] <yodaofborg> yeah, exactly cs, used to be no problem for me to nuke people as they undock.
[10/25/11 20:01:51] [100] <Straka> ******* ping
[10/25/11 20:02:25] [100] <yodaofborg> ANd infact its still not, If i'm lucky enough to choose the right exit bay, jackhammers do the job better than any avy
[10/25/11 20:02:29] [100] IRC <CrazySpence> s9 was awesome for that i remember for 30 min straight seeing blue avalon explosions across all the docks as 10 people fought it out around the station
[10/25/11 20:02:43] [100] <yodaofborg> But I can only do it once, then I have to run away.

+1. As always.

I would not have expected you of all people to use the chat filter, but cool.

We really should not have to keep fucking repeating ourselves here.

As I understood it, it was the insta-nuking, not the station-nuking that caused the avalon's demise.

yea but rockets have fuses now so that is defeated too!

I'm not really against bringing back avalons, and I was looking at it after Lecter's last thread. Unfortunately, the server that hosted most of the tools we have for changing gameplay (and also maintaining the active player graphs, statistics collection, internal documentation, and blah).. died not too long ago, and I'm in the midst of replacing it. Hopefully it'll be done on Fri. When that is back, I'll look at making capships less hard to craft, followed by avalons (likely to be next week).

Bad to hear about the failed server (however the fact that you didnt go bankrupt like you said such a failure would cause a few years ago is good news)

Glad to hear you are going to fix some terrible stuff and bring back good ol avalons

If the avalons come back in a terrible crafting mission though I will cut you.

+1 to crafted Avalons.

shut up man

-2 to draugath

CrazySpence, while you may not like crafting, there are people who do. As has been commented, these are basically TU mines with boosters on them. It only makes sense to make these an upgrade from the TUs. Plus it would be yet another step towards a greater player economy.

No thanks, too many examples that the devs just make up silly numbers so that only a handful of people will ever bother. Don't need to ruin this to

Capital stations, nation space +4

-10 draugath

+1 to crafted avalons

a tu mine should be the first item required....

Making them crafted makes them useless at the border in the war, where more capital ships explode in one day then they do everywhere else across the galaxy in a week. These are big bombs for bombing big things.

+1 to avalons
-1 to crafted

Give the TU mines a buff to make them more worthwhile to craft. Anything weaker than a skyprom or behemoth should die in one shot to one of those things.

Bad to hear about the failed server (however the fact that you didnt go bankrupt like you said such a failure would cause a few years ago is good news)

This particular server would not have caused that, even years ago. It has been highly inconvenient and a little developmentally worrisome for us, but didn't directly impact the day-to-day functionality of the game. But it has impacted my ability to make changes to the game, which was more related to this thread.

If the avalons come back in a terrible crafting mission though I will cut you.

Yeah, but what if it's an awesome crafting mission? Har har. Seriously though, I haven't given thought to any of this yet, just to weapon tweaks themselves. I'll let you guys continue to debate the relative merits of availability.

Also, they could be made available on successful passage of a mission, without being craftable themselves. Like passing the TU thing or some other mission.

+1 to avalons! Tbh chaos are meant for surprising smaller ships, not killing cap ships.

I don't care if they craftable or require a mission or really expensive or w/e just bring em back asap :)

+1 for mission access, -1,000,000,000 for crafting, including lame ass backdoor crafting such as TU mine mission completion flag.

Further suggestion: a national mission accessable version be sold only in capitol stations in nation space, and barracks stations in GR/Deneb; a Corvus mission accessable version be sold only in Odia M14. Ideally, the Corvus version does more damage or holds more rounds, but is a bit heavier, costs 10x as much to buy initially, and gets you a temp KOS flag when equipped in monitored/guarded Itani/Serco/UIT space.

+1 to crafted avalons.

+1 for mission access, -1,000,000,000 for crafting, including lame ass backdoor crafting such as TU mine mission completion flag.

+1,000,000,000. Crafting as it is with the sucky economy is awful. Way too much time and items to create things: TU mine takes nearly a thousand cu's of stuff and is only 1 cu, for example. Cappie items are more massive than all their components combined.

+1 to crafted avalons.

-1,000,000,000. See above.

I could accept crafting them in grey if the crafting mission wasn't absurd and if they could also be purchased from normal Itani and Serco barracks and/or capitals (but always the barracks in GR and Deneb).

Requiring some kind of authorization mission that grants access to the buyable version doesn't sound like a bad idea. Not some "you have to construct it first" nonsense though - constructing it yourself is to get around having to be authorized and friendly with a nation and buy it from their space. More along the lines of the test pilot missions to get access to the X-1, etc. It could be an "Anti-Capship Tactics and Ordinance Training" mission, where you learn some stuff about the different capships and how to fight them, and then are trained and tested in using an Avalon.

For buying Avalons from the Serco or Itani why not just have five simple requirements in place?

1. Must belong to the nation you are buying from.
2. Must have 850 or higher standing with your nation.
3. Must have negative 850 or lower with opposing nation.
4. Must be member of your nations military.
5. Must have destroyed X amount of capitol ships in border combat.

As for the Gray Space variants... make them cost 10 to 20 times more and give a reasonable mission tree to get access.