Forums » Suggestions
Rather than having a bunch of independent ships that all have to replicate a bunch of propulsion equipment, navigation gear, etc., and instead of massive single ships which come with many of their own drawbacks, some transport agencies might prefer the oldschool train approach - multiple dumb storage containers with bare minimum tech, linked together and connected to a pulling module (or several if it's large) which drags it through space.
One issue is stopping - the cars cannot contribute since the whole point is to avoid placing any unneeded tech in them. If they could fly independently they would use a convoy formation rather than a train. The lead ship also cannot us its brakes, because the trailing cars would just swing around.
That also brings up another issue: turning. I'm not certain but I think turns of a flexible train would probably be very hard to control in space due to inertia.
Solution: Make the train rigid rather than flexible. A space train has lots of room and doesn't use a track, so it has no need for flexible connections. Limitation: In real life turning a long rigid train in place with only thrusters on one end (or even both ends) would put massive stress on the linkages, and on the cars themselves.
If you ignore the pesky physics, however, having a rigid train allows the engine to be on either the front or back (technically any position at all, but you'd want an endpoint for maximum leverage during a turn) and to either push or pull, with no flailing train cars to worry about. If it's an extra long train, use two engines, one on each end. That helps with maneuverability (now it can rotate in place) as well. Another advantage is if one of the cars becomes damaged, splitting the train in two, each end is still connected to an engine. Whereas with only one engine, the split cars would be dead in space.
Advantages vs. normal convoys: cheaper, as the cars are just dumb storage containers with minimal tech (health readouts and internal lighting mainly, as the cargo crates apparently come with their own refrigeration or heating units). Also, no issues with stragglers spreading out the convoy making things hard for the escorts, since the train is rigidly linked together.
Disadvantages vs. normal convoys: as engines are the only parts with thrusters, destroying them or separating them from the train leaves the rest of the cars stranded, whereas with a convoy each individual ship is capable of completing the journey under its own power. The train can also be very long, while a convoy could potentially fly in a compact formation.
Advantages vs. large capships: ease of construction, price, and flexibility. The train is modular. Want more cargo capacity? Add more cars. Cars are dirt cheap to produce as they are just dumb containers. And to help defend the train, every tenth car or whatever could be a turret module rather than a cargo module, with turrets on all faces except the front and back (which of course have the linkages to the adjacent cars). Need more security on a particular train? Increase the ratio of turret modules vs. cargo modules. Need more pushing power? Add more engine modules, or use a more powerful engine module. And for storage, the individual cars can be unlinked and stacked up, rather than having to deal with a single massive ship.
Disadvantages vs. capships: no shields, less maneuverability, less compact shape. The train can potentially be cut off from the engine.
..
Initially, trains could be handled like capital ships, warping into the starting sector and warping out of the destination sector. But ideally, they would park themselves a km or so from the station and wait as NPCs from the station come out remove or add cars, taking them to and from the station as needed. Also, they would ideally not make single point-to-point trips like convoys do. They would follow routes, picking up and dropping off cars along the way. Maybe dedicated "train stations" could be created at the points where they stop to provide greater protection and loading efficiency (think a long station with many docking ports and turrets spaced evenly along the length. Trains would pull up parallel to the station.)
Since trains would be a more periodic persistent type of critter, with potentially lots of valuable goodies, they'd probably mostly operate in nation space (an occasional random heavily guarded train into or through Grey would be believable), and would have some system for retrieving lost chains of cars. For example, if I snuck into Azek and destroyed the engine of a train, once the train system realized something was amiss (perhaps immediately) they'd dispatch a task force to check on the train, along with a fresh engine that would try to link up to the remaining cars. So I'd have a limited amount of time to loot and plunder before having to worry about them coming back in force to retrieve the rest of it. We're talking about a lot of loot, so I'd be unable to simply kill the whole thing and steal everything. One thing I could do is cut the train into several modules, so that the new engine could only pull away one of the new sub-trains, buying me a little more time while they send another engine or two. But the attack they launch against me should be pretty big and nasty, because like I said, it's a lot of loot. I'm talking 10-20 ships at least, all focused on turning me into a pile of glowing embers.
The train system would also remember attacks and for a period of time increase security in that region of the system. E.g. more turret modules, more escorts, perhaps smaller trains or faster engines. Those measures cost more money though, so they'd only do it temporarily if I stopped harassing them. If I kept attacking, they'd keep enhancing security until they felt they'd reached a point where it would not be worth the added cost to protect the cargo. Theoretically my successful attacks would diminish as their security rises as well, so it should hit an equilibrium, and should adapt to pirate behaviour in general.
And of course, player-owned trains are a must! I mean, what good is a space game without player owned trains? We will never be taken seriously until we have them. And once we do, all those people who don't play right now will magically play and all our problems will be solved!
... Okay, other than that last bit, I'm serious about this. Of course, I don't think this is anything that should have a huge priority. At least get cappies sorted out first (and I mean properly sorted out, e.g. in several months or so when they hopefully have shields and stuff) and maybe fix other things too like factions or whatever. This is just for later when you're thinking, "What else can we do to add more traffic flying around?"
One issue is stopping - the cars cannot contribute since the whole point is to avoid placing any unneeded tech in them. If they could fly independently they would use a convoy formation rather than a train. The lead ship also cannot us its brakes, because the trailing cars would just swing around.
That also brings up another issue: turning. I'm not certain but I think turns of a flexible train would probably be very hard to control in space due to inertia.
Solution: Make the train rigid rather than flexible. A space train has lots of room and doesn't use a track, so it has no need for flexible connections. Limitation: In real life turning a long rigid train in place with only thrusters on one end (or even both ends) would put massive stress on the linkages, and on the cars themselves.
If you ignore the pesky physics, however, having a rigid train allows the engine to be on either the front or back (technically any position at all, but you'd want an endpoint for maximum leverage during a turn) and to either push or pull, with no flailing train cars to worry about. If it's an extra long train, use two engines, one on each end. That helps with maneuverability (now it can rotate in place) as well. Another advantage is if one of the cars becomes damaged, splitting the train in two, each end is still connected to an engine. Whereas with only one engine, the split cars would be dead in space.
Advantages vs. normal convoys: cheaper, as the cars are just dumb storage containers with minimal tech (health readouts and internal lighting mainly, as the cargo crates apparently come with their own refrigeration or heating units). Also, no issues with stragglers spreading out the convoy making things hard for the escorts, since the train is rigidly linked together.
Disadvantages vs. normal convoys: as engines are the only parts with thrusters, destroying them or separating them from the train leaves the rest of the cars stranded, whereas with a convoy each individual ship is capable of completing the journey under its own power. The train can also be very long, while a convoy could potentially fly in a compact formation.
Advantages vs. large capships: ease of construction, price, and flexibility. The train is modular. Want more cargo capacity? Add more cars. Cars are dirt cheap to produce as they are just dumb containers. And to help defend the train, every tenth car or whatever could be a turret module rather than a cargo module, with turrets on all faces except the front and back (which of course have the linkages to the adjacent cars). Need more security on a particular train? Increase the ratio of turret modules vs. cargo modules. Need more pushing power? Add more engine modules, or use a more powerful engine module. And for storage, the individual cars can be unlinked and stacked up, rather than having to deal with a single massive ship.
Disadvantages vs. capships: no shields, less maneuverability, less compact shape. The train can potentially be cut off from the engine.
..
Initially, trains could be handled like capital ships, warping into the starting sector and warping out of the destination sector. But ideally, they would park themselves a km or so from the station and wait as NPCs from the station come out remove or add cars, taking them to and from the station as needed. Also, they would ideally not make single point-to-point trips like convoys do. They would follow routes, picking up and dropping off cars along the way. Maybe dedicated "train stations" could be created at the points where they stop to provide greater protection and loading efficiency (think a long station with many docking ports and turrets spaced evenly along the length. Trains would pull up parallel to the station.)
Since trains would be a more periodic persistent type of critter, with potentially lots of valuable goodies, they'd probably mostly operate in nation space (an occasional random heavily guarded train into or through Grey would be believable), and would have some system for retrieving lost chains of cars. For example, if I snuck into Azek and destroyed the engine of a train, once the train system realized something was amiss (perhaps immediately) they'd dispatch a task force to check on the train, along with a fresh engine that would try to link up to the remaining cars. So I'd have a limited amount of time to loot and plunder before having to worry about them coming back in force to retrieve the rest of it. We're talking about a lot of loot, so I'd be unable to simply kill the whole thing and steal everything. One thing I could do is cut the train into several modules, so that the new engine could only pull away one of the new sub-trains, buying me a little more time while they send another engine or two. But the attack they launch against me should be pretty big and nasty, because like I said, it's a lot of loot. I'm talking 10-20 ships at least, all focused on turning me into a pile of glowing embers.
The train system would also remember attacks and for a period of time increase security in that region of the system. E.g. more turret modules, more escorts, perhaps smaller trains or faster engines. Those measures cost more money though, so they'd only do it temporarily if I stopped harassing them. If I kept attacking, they'd keep enhancing security until they felt they'd reached a point where it would not be worth the added cost to protect the cargo. Theoretically my successful attacks would diminish as their security rises as well, so it should hit an equilibrium, and should adapt to pirate behaviour in general.
And of course, player-owned trains are a must! I mean, what good is a space game without player owned trains? We will never be taken seriously until we have them. And once we do, all those people who don't play right now will magically play and all our problems will be solved!
... Okay, other than that last bit, I'm serious about this. Of course, I don't think this is anything that should have a huge priority. At least get cappies sorted out first (and I mean properly sorted out, e.g. in several months or so when they hopefully have shields and stuff) and maybe fix other things too like factions or whatever. This is just for later when you're thinking, "What else can we do to add more traffic flying around?"
It might be cool if marauders which I think are supposed to assume some level of modularity at some point could tie into something like this.
Yeah, IIRC... the Marauder was meant to have storage modules that could be added or removed. Anyway, it would be cool if the Marauder lived up to the Debs original vision of it.
I was expecting this post to be all about how VPRs enjoy getting a train run on them. Ah well.
I think any practical attempt at this would actually require a chain of interlocking shipping containers with a "tug" at both ends, each equipped with linked retrorockets for maneuverability, so as not to wrap itself around space stations, etc.
-CR
-CR
Heh, if this got implemented there could also be an addon for grappling on to train cars with your ship and hauling them away to blow them up later and take what's inside.
I'm imagining the cars being the size of an XC, with maybe 250 cu capacities (no engines, so they can fit more in the same volume). So towing them away with a small ship would be difficult unless they were hauling very lightweight goodies. But I would like for it to be possible to try, certainly. And of course, I'd like to be able to buy my own train engine that I could use to tow a nice chunk of a train that got separated from its engine. Probably normal train engines wouldn't have any kind of weapons since you can't aim while pulling a train, but they might have turrets, and I would expect there would be a Corvus or XX varient that would give up some of the turbo thrust in exchange for a few weapon ports to use for train-jacking :)
The train engines themselves should of course be crap for fighting. They would need very massive amounts of turbo thrust and a 50 e/s or less drain, but they should have low turbo and non-turbo velocities. Max velocity is pretty much irrelevant when actually pulling/pushing a train, because the thing will be so heavy they'll make it to the jump point before they can achieve full speed.
The train engines themselves should of course be crap for fighting. They would need very massive amounts of turbo thrust and a 50 e/s or less drain, but they should have low turbo and non-turbo velocities. Max velocity is pretty much irrelevant when actually pulling/pushing a train, because the thing will be so heavy they'll make it to the jump point before they can achieve full speed.
+ 1 to OP
This is actually quite close to my tractor beam idea.
Some time ago I proposed a tractor beam devices which could be installed on ship like any other device/weapon.
The general conception is that people should be able to tow things in space. Train is actually a logical extension of tractor beam. Using such tractor beam, one could travel with one ship, carrying other ships attached.
Perhaps the cars should be connected with tractor beams, which get disrupted when travelling through some weather conditions (such as ion storms). After encountering a storm the cars get detached and float in space, so the "Locomotive" would have to reattach all the cars again, and then make a jump.
This would actually be MUCH MUCH MUCH more fun than capships alltogether. I wonder how it happened that nobody before had the idea of tractor beam similiar to mine.
This is actually quite close to my tractor beam idea.
Some time ago I proposed a tractor beam devices which could be installed on ship like any other device/weapon.
The general conception is that people should be able to tow things in space. Train is actually a logical extension of tractor beam. Using such tractor beam, one could travel with one ship, carrying other ships attached.
Perhaps the cars should be connected with tractor beams, which get disrupted when travelling through some weather conditions (such as ion storms). After encountering a storm the cars get detached and float in space, so the "Locomotive" would have to reattach all the cars again, and then make a jump.
This would actually be MUCH MUCH MUCH more fun than capships alltogether. I wonder how it happened that nobody before had the idea of tractor beam similiar to mine.
PoL stop hijacking threads to plug your ideas that have been shot down.
"Perhaps the cars should be connected with tractor beams,"
Yeah, a moth hauling a bunch of other loaded ships would be so great. Top speed of maybe 10m/s. Worst idea you've had yet.
"This would actually be MUCH MUCH MUCH more fun than capships alltogether."
No.
" I wonder how it happened that nobody before had the idea of tractor beam similiar to mine."
Because you are a genius. No wait, it has been suggested... Dozens of times, in better fashions than you have suggested. Your suggestion is as impractical as it is feeble.
"Perhaps the cars should be connected with tractor beams,"
Yeah, a moth hauling a bunch of other loaded ships would be so great. Top speed of maybe 10m/s. Worst idea you've had yet.
"This would actually be MUCH MUCH MUCH more fun than capships alltogether."
No.
" I wonder how it happened that nobody before had the idea of tractor beam similiar to mine."
Because you are a genius. No wait, it has been suggested... Dozens of times, in better fashions than you have suggested. Your suggestion is as impractical as it is feeble.
@ryan
[[[Because you are a genius. No wait, it has been suggested... Dozens of times, in better fashions than you have suggested. Your suggestion is as impractical as it is feeble.]]]
[[["This would actually be MUCH MUCH MUCH more fun than capships alltogether." No.]]]
I do not even plan on discussing if this is a good idea with you anymore - i find it pointless.
There are some things in life you can discuss, the others you just know. And most of my ideas for Vendetta i just know they are right. You see, after playing multiple games of different types over 15 years, i know exactly what is "the essence" that makes games successful.
None of my (or similiar) ideas got ever implemented and look in what state VO is now.
I think you would do best for the game by simply supporting me, instead of fighting & trolling me.
[[[Because you are a genius. No wait, it has been suggested... Dozens of times, in better fashions than you have suggested. Your suggestion is as impractical as it is feeble.]]]
[[["This would actually be MUCH MUCH MUCH more fun than capships alltogether." No.]]]
I do not even plan on discussing if this is a good idea with you anymore - i find it pointless.
There are some things in life you can discuss, the others you just know. And most of my ideas for Vendetta i just know they are right. You see, after playing multiple games of different types over 15 years, i know exactly what is "the essence" that makes games successful.
None of my (or similiar) ideas got ever implemented and look in what state VO is now.
I think you would do best for the game by simply supporting me, instead of fighting & trolling me.
The Dave Koresh of VO has spoken.
And after playing many video games for over 26 years, I know that if your ideas were so great that...
A. Nearly all of them would not be universally hated
and
B. If they would in fact improve VO infinitely they would have been implemented.
As for..."I think you would do best for the game by simply supporting me, instead of fighting & trolling me."
Why is it that I (and others) are trolling you when we disagree? What harm to the game does disagreeing with you do? What exactly are the consequences? See, VO had been around nearly 10 years before you and your ego signed on, in the 6+ years that I've been here... I've seen the game evolve and get better. I've seen a lot of players ideas get implemented... including mine, Lecter's and even Alloh's. Far too many to list... and each idea improved the game or added to it. Conversely, I have seen none of your ideas,despite your bumping threads, hijacking threads, making threads with lists of your previously shot down ideas and explaining how VO has potential,but only you and your ideas can save it.
Right... your ideas will save a game that has been around nearly 10 years, has the greatest... (not to mention most loyal)... community out of any MMO I've ever played. Yes, only you and your ideas can save VO from the players who enjoy it and the developers who have KEPT IT GOING FOR NEARLY TEN YEARS. Only YOU the great and omnipotent "PaladinOfLancelot" can save VO and fix all its issues. Because ONLY YOU realize the potential being wasted by the players and developers, both of which groups are evidently, in your opinion... such mouth breathing, knuckle dragging, drooling fucking retards that they do not realize the shining brilliance of your ideas, as is evident by the rate at which you shining brilliant ideas are dismissed by all parties involved.
Yeah, that's probably it.
Well, either that or your ideas are insipid, idiotic and would do more harm than good to the game. Your ideas are so atrociously bad... that I often wonder if you work for a rival company trying to destroy GS or if you are actually as uneducated and egotistical as you seem.
And after playing many video games for over 26 years, I know that if your ideas were so great that...
A. Nearly all of them would not be universally hated
and
B. If they would in fact improve VO infinitely they would have been implemented.
As for..."I think you would do best for the game by simply supporting me, instead of fighting & trolling me."
Why is it that I (and others) are trolling you when we disagree? What harm to the game does disagreeing with you do? What exactly are the consequences? See, VO had been around nearly 10 years before you and your ego signed on, in the 6+ years that I've been here... I've seen the game evolve and get better. I've seen a lot of players ideas get implemented... including mine, Lecter's and even Alloh's. Far too many to list... and each idea improved the game or added to it. Conversely, I have seen none of your ideas,despite your bumping threads, hijacking threads, making threads with lists of your previously shot down ideas and explaining how VO has potential,but only you and your ideas can save it.
Right... your ideas will save a game that has been around nearly 10 years, has the greatest... (not to mention most loyal)... community out of any MMO I've ever played. Yes, only you and your ideas can save VO from the players who enjoy it and the developers who have KEPT IT GOING FOR NEARLY TEN YEARS. Only YOU the great and omnipotent "PaladinOfLancelot" can save VO and fix all its issues. Because ONLY YOU realize the potential being wasted by the players and developers, both of which groups are evidently, in your opinion... such mouth breathing, knuckle dragging, drooling fucking retards that they do not realize the shining brilliance of your ideas, as is evident by the rate at which you shining brilliant ideas are dismissed by all parties involved.
Yeah, that's probably it.
Well, either that or your ideas are insipid, idiotic and would do more harm than good to the game. Your ideas are so atrociously bad... that I often wonder if you work for a rival company trying to destroy GS or if you are actually as uneducated and egotistical as you seem.
@ryan
Sorry, I no longer have the incentive to try to convince with you.
You can't be changed, this community and this game can't be fixed. With this approach you are forever condemnded to what you have know - i hope you like it.
So keep dying in slow agony while you watch new cool android features pop up. I hope they really help to bring more people in the game, because if they don't - the situation is not going to get any better.
----
Ah, and for the record - several of my ideas were positively voted, and incarnate himself confirmed that he is working on some of them.
So much for "insipid, idiotic and would do more harm than good to the game".
Sorry, I no longer have the incentive to try to convince with you.
You can't be changed, this community and this game can't be fixed. With this approach you are forever condemnded to what you have know - i hope you like it.
So keep dying in slow agony while you watch new cool android features pop up. I hope they really help to bring more people in the game, because if they don't - the situation is not going to get any better.
----
Ah, and for the record - several of my ideas were positively voted, and incarnate himself confirmed that he is working on some of them.
So much for "insipid, idiotic and would do more harm than good to the game".
I know, I voted positively for at least one or two of your ideas that were not utterly moronic (You may recall those as the ones where you did not call me a troll.) and yes, Inc confirmed that some of what you suggested was similar to things they had planned long before you arrived, yes. Big deal. All that means is you are not a COMPLETE idiot. The point is, if your ideas were in fact the last great hope of this game that has been around for nearly 10 years, at least one of your original ideas would be in game... how ever, none of them are. Your ideas that are similar to things GS planned already aren't even in game.
I wish I could have phrased all this in a more monosyllabic fashion so you'd understand that you are not in fact the last great hope of VO, but I didn't.
Maybe you learn in a more visual fashion...
A quick and accurate guide to the communities reaction to your great game saving ideas...
I wish I could have phrased all this in a more monosyllabic fashion so you'd understand that you are not in fact the last great hope of VO, but I didn't.
Maybe you learn in a more visual fashion...
A quick and accurate guide to the communities reaction to your great game saving ideas...
Oh noes, mah train done got jacked!
"None of my (or similiar) ideas got ever implemented and look in what state VO is now."
You talk about the game like it's falling apart and not worth playing. I simply do not understand. I was playing last night and was having so much fun that my face literally got sore from smiling so much. It was amazing.
Are you one of those guys who wanders the streets telling us this Friday is the end of the world? Lighten up, have some fun.
"None of my (or similiar) ideas got ever implemented and look in what state VO is now."
You talk about the game like it's falling apart and not worth playing. I simply do not understand. I was playing last night and was having so much fun that my face literally got sore from smiling so much. It was amazing.
Are you one of those guys who wanders the streets telling us this Friday is the end of the world? Lighten up, have some fun.
Seriously, in the last few weeks I have...
Gotten lost looking for the cappie station
Gotten trapped inside the cappie station
Had some GREAT fights
Defended some stations
Mentored/advised a bunch of newbs
Nearly choked laughing at the random craziness on 100
Done a few furballs
Accidentally gave away secret BLF plans witha wc
And did some top secret stuff.
Thats just the stuff that comes readily to mind. VO is doing well and is still a great way to kill a few hours.
If your ideas are so great, go make your own game. Then, just to utterly and completely fail... try to get VO's player base to jump ship and join your game.
Gotten lost looking for the cappie station
Gotten trapped inside the cappie station
Had some GREAT fights
Defended some stations
Mentored/advised a bunch of newbs
Nearly choked laughing at the random craziness on 100
Done a few furballs
Accidentally gave away secret BLF plans witha wc
And did some top secret stuff.
Thats just the stuff that comes readily to mind. VO is doing well and is still a great way to kill a few hours.
If your ideas are so great, go make your own game. Then, just to utterly and completely fail... try to get VO's player base to jump ship and join your game.
@ryan
You know, actually I'm starting to think you are right.
I am a moron. And that is because i am pointlessly wasting time here that could be spent on doing something that actually has any chance of producing any results.
Discussing with you closed-box thinkers is like trying to convince a boa snake to go vegan (not that i am pro-vegetarian, i love meat).
I have already seen enough of your opinions to conclude that, if people like you are the elite of this game, it is never going improve in a way it could attract masses of players (and as far as i understand, getting masses to play VO is the goal of the developers, istn't it ?).
The android version is for nothing.
Advertising is for nothing
Convincing others to come and play is for nothing.
99,9% of people will come, see that there is not much interesting to do in here, and leave. It is as simple as that. Only a very tiny percent of people with very specific mindset (similiar to yours) will stay.
You know, actually I'm starting to think you are right.
I am a moron. And that is because i am pointlessly wasting time here that could be spent on doing something that actually has any chance of producing any results.
Discussing with you closed-box thinkers is like trying to convince a boa snake to go vegan (not that i am pro-vegetarian, i love meat).
I have already seen enough of your opinions to conclude that, if people like you are the elite of this game, it is never going improve in a way it could attract masses of players (and as far as i understand, getting masses to play VO is the goal of the developers, istn't it ?).
The android version is for nothing.
Advertising is for nothing
Convincing others to come and play is for nothing.
99,9% of people will come, see that there is not much interesting to do in here, and leave. It is as simple as that. Only a very tiny percent of people with very specific mindset (similiar to yours) will stay.
"and as far as i understand, getting masses to play VO is the goal of the developers, istn't it ?"
A goal, not the goal. They are trying to create a specific type of game, and to make it fun. The bulk of the people in the world have no interest in the kind of game that Guild Software is creating here. That is okay, because there are enough who do. Trying to change this game to appeal to the majority of the humans out there would be a horrible thing to do - this would become just another generic game like all the others.
My opinion is that amongst all humanity, the common denominator is poop. If you create a product that attempts to please everybody, it will be crap, no way around it. Only by eschewing the quest for universal popularity and focusing on a specific audience can something become truly great, and it would only be considered great by that audience and a few people outside it who happen to be open minded enough to recognize the greatness despite their own disinterest in the product. (For example, there is a lot of music that I acknowledge is very good stuff, despite my having no interest in listening to it. I can tell it is very good, but it doesn't appeal to me personally.) The smaller your audience, the better the project can theoretically be. Of course, going too narrow results in not enough funding or not enough people to play with, so there is balancing.
I realize your intentions are good, but the problem is that you are overreacting. For one thing, you only see this project from the outside, not the inside. So while some things might seem obvious to you, you are likely missing significant details that make them more complex. Sure, you might have plenty of experience, but so do the people who have been working on this game for a decade. Secondly, you don't even play anymore, so you have no actual knowledge of the current state of the game (and you have not been around long enough to see any so-called decline - in fact things have been improving since you left (coincidence I am sure ;)). You are operating based on extrapolations from what you experienced when you did play and from what people have said in the forums. Thirdly, I doubt you played long enough to actually begin to appreciate the true beauty of VO as a PVP platform, so you don't even understand the very game you are trying to save.
Yes, some of your ideas would improve the game. They have not been implemented yet. So what? Your ideas are not the only ideas. The devs have more than ten years worth of their own ideas piled up, plus volumes of ideas that people have posted on these forums over the years. They will get around to it. Or not. Doesn't matter much, none of your ideas were as critical as you seem to think.
Your intentions are good, but this is Guild Software's game, not yours, so it is their problem to worry about, not yours. I can understand that you are worried it will fail, but you should relax. They have stated several times that they're currently on the best financial ground they've been on in a very long time (ever? I forget). It will work out. If it doesn't, tough cookies.
"I think you would do best for the game by simply supporting me, instead of fighting & trolling me."
Actually, the best thing you can do for this or any game is to play the game. Ryan actually does that, as do I.
A goal, not the goal. They are trying to create a specific type of game, and to make it fun. The bulk of the people in the world have no interest in the kind of game that Guild Software is creating here. That is okay, because there are enough who do. Trying to change this game to appeal to the majority of the humans out there would be a horrible thing to do - this would become just another generic game like all the others.
My opinion is that amongst all humanity, the common denominator is poop. If you create a product that attempts to please everybody, it will be crap, no way around it. Only by eschewing the quest for universal popularity and focusing on a specific audience can something become truly great, and it would only be considered great by that audience and a few people outside it who happen to be open minded enough to recognize the greatness despite their own disinterest in the product. (For example, there is a lot of music that I acknowledge is very good stuff, despite my having no interest in listening to it. I can tell it is very good, but it doesn't appeal to me personally.) The smaller your audience, the better the project can theoretically be. Of course, going too narrow results in not enough funding or not enough people to play with, so there is balancing.
I realize your intentions are good, but the problem is that you are overreacting. For one thing, you only see this project from the outside, not the inside. So while some things might seem obvious to you, you are likely missing significant details that make them more complex. Sure, you might have plenty of experience, but so do the people who have been working on this game for a decade. Secondly, you don't even play anymore, so you have no actual knowledge of the current state of the game (and you have not been around long enough to see any so-called decline - in fact things have been improving since you left (coincidence I am sure ;)). You are operating based on extrapolations from what you experienced when you did play and from what people have said in the forums. Thirdly, I doubt you played long enough to actually begin to appreciate the true beauty of VO as a PVP platform, so you don't even understand the very game you are trying to save.
Yes, some of your ideas would improve the game. They have not been implemented yet. So what? Your ideas are not the only ideas. The devs have more than ten years worth of their own ideas piled up, plus volumes of ideas that people have posted on these forums over the years. They will get around to it. Or not. Doesn't matter much, none of your ideas were as critical as you seem to think.
Your intentions are good, but this is Guild Software's game, not yours, so it is their problem to worry about, not yours. I can understand that you are worried it will fail, but you should relax. They have stated several times that they're currently on the best financial ground they've been on in a very long time (ever? I forget). It will work out. If it doesn't, tough cookies.
"I think you would do best for the game by simply supporting me, instead of fighting & trolling me."
Actually, the best thing you can do for this or any game is to play the game. Ryan actually does that, as do I.
@Pizzasgood
[[[A goal, not the goal. They are trying to create a specific type of game, and to make it fun. The bulk of the people in the world have no interest in the kind of game that Guild Software is creating here. That is okay, because there are enough who do.]]]
Well, the universe still feels too empty when flying around.
Increasing number of players is one way to fix that. But there are others, also suggested.
.
.
.
[[[Trying to change this game to appeal to the majority of the humans out there would be a horrible thing to do - this would become just another generic game like all the others.]]]
Nobody is making the game become like any other generic game.
That would be a real tragedy and total waste of resources.
The goal is (or should be ?) to create unique, wonderful, deep game, than people can get into, and completely get lost in it's beauty.
However that is not what Vendetta is now. Let's sum it up:
- Technical = [EXCELLENT] Technically, Vendetta is excellent. The engine is very well written, and very stable, works on multiple platforms.
- Community = [EXCELLENT] VO has a great community, very helpful people. I have experienced it myself.
- Graphic design = [GOOD ENOUGH] Of course, could be better. The ships are a little rough, but graphics is not what makes a game good. Example: Minecraft
So what is missing ?
- "Grindability" [BAD] Of course, VO is real-skill-based, not statistics-based, so traditional grindability like that in WOW, Silkroad Online, Guild Wars etc is not possible here, as it would destroy gameplay. Of course, there are the skills, but that is not enough. There are certain different types of grindability that can be implemented however. For example:
---- Economic grindability. Vendetta already has some of this, but not well thought over. Yes, you can earn billions of cash. But what for ? There is nothing special to buy for it so it doesn't have real value. Perhaps you should be able to buy and create large things (like capships, stations, planets, armadas of ships that work for you) that actually cost enough to give one incentive to grind the cash needed for it.
---- More skill grindability. More skills/licenses except the basic 5 could be added to the game. I already suggested engineering (which allows free repairs, ship/capship/station construction). But there surely can be more ideas.
- Achievements [POOR] This matter is directly related to grindability. After few months of gameplay, there is not much "new", "fresh" to do in this game, if you are not a pirate and/or tired of PVP. And as most of people are not pirates, this sucks. More things to do could be added, for example:
---- Exploration: If Vendetta universe was more random, like locations could change randomly (more roids, derelict stations, weird random objects, random inventories), then there would be a point in actual exploration of the universe. That would give people incentive to fly around and try things, giving them new occupation to do except pirating & PVP.
---- Construction: I suggested adding new skill: engineering to the existing 5. It would give players whole range of completely new, interesting things to do. Perhaps building large things like capships, stations etc should be possible. That would give people incentive to achieve higher skill levels and earn more cash.
---- Ship trading: Allow ship trading through implementation of tractor beam. That would give people a lot new things to do, new goals to achieve. Also, many great opportunities for pirates.
- Unpredictability [UNEXISTANT]. VO is almost completely predictable. It totally lacks randomness. Every time you go somewhere, you can expect that everything there will be exactly the same as you left it (except human player activity of course, but there is not much activity, as there isn't many players around). I especially mean roids, bot activity, lack of random events, lack of random objects, lack of anything that is unpredictable.
- World scale [BAD]. VO is small. It is space-based, but it feels like travelling inside somebody's house. There are "rooms" (sectors), and "doors" (wormholes). The actual spaces that you can travel in that contain objects are relatively extremely small (like dozens of kilometers). Except that there is nothing. Well of course, you can fly in one direction for days, but that still feels like pushing a wall in the room, because there is simply nothing in there. So please don't give me the "hey, i can fly for xxx hours in one direction" bullshit. The VO world is small. Period.
---- I suggested multiple ways to fix that:
Random sectors / uncharted sectors
Eleminate the "space boredom" coming from its emptyness. Huge idea.
- "Mind feeding" [VERY BAD]. Space is mostly empty. Space is boring. That is the trouble of all space-based flight games. Comparing to traditional, WOW-like MMORPG's, where your mind is constantly fed with colors, sounds, shapes, characters, space does not feed the senses with information. This can be fixed, using few of my suggestions. Actually, incarnate confirmed that he is working on some of them.
http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/23854
http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/23863
.
.
.
[[[My opinion is that amongst all humanity, the common denominator is poop. If you create a product that attempts to please everybody, it will be crap, no way around it. Only by eschewing the quest for universal popularity and focusing on a specific audience can something become truly great, and it would only be considered great by that audience and a few people outside it who happen to be open minded enough to recognize the greatness despite their own disinterest in the product. (For example, there is a lot of music that I acknowledge is very good stuff, despite my having no interest in listening to it. I can tell it is very good, but it doesn't appeal to me personally.) ]]]
You are absolutely correct. However that is not what I am proposing.
What I am trying to suggest is making the game deeper and more grindable (but not in a classic MMORPG way, as it would destroy current skill-based gameplay), so there are much more things to do.
Look at the example of Minecraft. You actually can create a great game without promotion, advertisements, millions of dollars and bringing to "common human denominator".
With the suggestions I proposed, Vendetta can be a great game without breaking any of the things that are making it good game now.
.
.
.
[[[The smaller your audience, the better the project can theoretically be.]]]
[Citation needed]
I don't think there is any actual corelation like that. Give me some proof.
.
.
.
[[[So while some things might seem obvious to you, you are likely missing significant details that make them more complex. Sure, you might have plenty of experience, but so do the people who have been working on this game for a decade. Secondly, you don't even play anymore, so you have no actual knowledge of the current state of the game (and you have not been around long enough to see any so-called decline - in fact things have been improving since you left (coincidence I am sure ;)). You are operating based on extrapolations from what you experienced when you did play and from what people have said in the forums.]]]
Well, i know that 99% of updates are about android - only features and I also know that capships have not yet been implemented. I also know, that there are only 2 people actively developing the game.
That is more than enough to come to certain conclusions.
.
.
.
[[[Thirdly, I doubt you played long enough to actually begin to appreciate the true beauty of VO as a PVP platform, so you don't even understand the very game you are trying to save.]]]
Well, PVP is not my speciality, and that is probably why i have left. I don't feel like PVPing all the time.
I would like to have some other occupation, but the truth is that in VO, if you don't PVP, there is nothing much to do.
Botting ? Becomes boring after few months.
Mine ? Boring like hell.
Trading ? Averagely interesting to boring, but still there isn't enough expensive things to buy after you get your first 5.000.000 credits.
I also proposed how to fix that above. There is nothing obvious to do with large amounts of cash in this game. Unbalanced.
.
.
.
[[[Yes, some of your ideas would improve the game. They have not been implemented yet. So what? Your ideas are not the only ideas. The devs have more than ten years worth of their own ideas piled up, plus volumes of ideas that people have posted on these forums over the years. They will get around to it. Or not. Doesn't matter much, none of your ideas were as critical as you seem to think.]]]
Well, some of them were more critical than you think and so easy to implement, that should be done years ago.
.
.
.
[[[Your intentions are good, but this is Guild Software's game, not yours, so it is their problem to worry about, not yours. I can understand that you are worried it will fail, but you should relax. They have stated several times that they're currently on the best financial ground they've been on in a very long time (ever? I forget). It will work out. If it doesn't, tough cookies.]]]
So they should stop tempting me with "Have a suggestion ? Share it on suggestion forums !" texts. That is annoying because i come here and share my ideas just to be trolled and bashed endlessly.
.
.
.
[[[Actually, the best thing you can do for this or any game is to play the game. Ryan actually does that, as do I.]]]
I will, as soon as capships show up.
Then, i will stay for few months, and conclude there is nothing really interesting to do anymore, and leave.
The usual.
[[[A goal, not the goal. They are trying to create a specific type of game, and to make it fun. The bulk of the people in the world have no interest in the kind of game that Guild Software is creating here. That is okay, because there are enough who do.]]]
Well, the universe still feels too empty when flying around.
Increasing number of players is one way to fix that. But there are others, also suggested.
.
.
.
[[[Trying to change this game to appeal to the majority of the humans out there would be a horrible thing to do - this would become just another generic game like all the others.]]]
Nobody is making the game become like any other generic game.
That would be a real tragedy and total waste of resources.
The goal is (or should be ?) to create unique, wonderful, deep game, than people can get into, and completely get lost in it's beauty.
However that is not what Vendetta is now. Let's sum it up:
- Technical = [EXCELLENT] Technically, Vendetta is excellent. The engine is very well written, and very stable, works on multiple platforms.
- Community = [EXCELLENT] VO has a great community, very helpful people. I have experienced it myself.
- Graphic design = [GOOD ENOUGH] Of course, could be better. The ships are a little rough, but graphics is not what makes a game good. Example: Minecraft
So what is missing ?
- "Grindability" [BAD] Of course, VO is real-skill-based, not statistics-based, so traditional grindability like that in WOW, Silkroad Online, Guild Wars etc is not possible here, as it would destroy gameplay. Of course, there are the skills, but that is not enough. There are certain different types of grindability that can be implemented however. For example:
---- Economic grindability. Vendetta already has some of this, but not well thought over. Yes, you can earn billions of cash. But what for ? There is nothing special to buy for it so it doesn't have real value. Perhaps you should be able to buy and create large things (like capships, stations, planets, armadas of ships that work for you) that actually cost enough to give one incentive to grind the cash needed for it.
---- More skill grindability. More skills/licenses except the basic 5 could be added to the game. I already suggested engineering (which allows free repairs, ship/capship/station construction). But there surely can be more ideas.
- Achievements [POOR] This matter is directly related to grindability. After few months of gameplay, there is not much "new", "fresh" to do in this game, if you are not a pirate and/or tired of PVP. And as most of people are not pirates, this sucks. More things to do could be added, for example:
---- Exploration: If Vendetta universe was more random, like locations could change randomly (more roids, derelict stations, weird random objects, random inventories), then there would be a point in actual exploration of the universe. That would give people incentive to fly around and try things, giving them new occupation to do except pirating & PVP.
---- Construction: I suggested adding new skill: engineering to the existing 5. It would give players whole range of completely new, interesting things to do. Perhaps building large things like capships, stations etc should be possible. That would give people incentive to achieve higher skill levels and earn more cash.
---- Ship trading: Allow ship trading through implementation of tractor beam. That would give people a lot new things to do, new goals to achieve. Also, many great opportunities for pirates.
- Unpredictability [UNEXISTANT]. VO is almost completely predictable. It totally lacks randomness. Every time you go somewhere, you can expect that everything there will be exactly the same as you left it (except human player activity of course, but there is not much activity, as there isn't many players around). I especially mean roids, bot activity, lack of random events, lack of random objects, lack of anything that is unpredictable.
- World scale [BAD]. VO is small. It is space-based, but it feels like travelling inside somebody's house. There are "rooms" (sectors), and "doors" (wormholes). The actual spaces that you can travel in that contain objects are relatively extremely small (like dozens of kilometers). Except that there is nothing. Well of course, you can fly in one direction for days, but that still feels like pushing a wall in the room, because there is simply nothing in there. So please don't give me the "hey, i can fly for xxx hours in one direction" bullshit. The VO world is small. Period.
---- I suggested multiple ways to fix that:
Random sectors / uncharted sectors
Eleminate the "space boredom" coming from its emptyness. Huge idea.
- "Mind feeding" [VERY BAD]. Space is mostly empty. Space is boring. That is the trouble of all space-based flight games. Comparing to traditional, WOW-like MMORPG's, where your mind is constantly fed with colors, sounds, shapes, characters, space does not feed the senses with information. This can be fixed, using few of my suggestions. Actually, incarnate confirmed that he is working on some of them.
http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/23854
http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/23863
.
.
.
[[[My opinion is that amongst all humanity, the common denominator is poop. If you create a product that attempts to please everybody, it will be crap, no way around it. Only by eschewing the quest for universal popularity and focusing on a specific audience can something become truly great, and it would only be considered great by that audience and a few people outside it who happen to be open minded enough to recognize the greatness despite their own disinterest in the product. (For example, there is a lot of music that I acknowledge is very good stuff, despite my having no interest in listening to it. I can tell it is very good, but it doesn't appeal to me personally.) ]]]
You are absolutely correct. However that is not what I am proposing.
What I am trying to suggest is making the game deeper and more grindable (but not in a classic MMORPG way, as it would destroy current skill-based gameplay), so there are much more things to do.
Look at the example of Minecraft. You actually can create a great game without promotion, advertisements, millions of dollars and bringing to "common human denominator".
With the suggestions I proposed, Vendetta can be a great game without breaking any of the things that are making it good game now.
.
.
.
[[[The smaller your audience, the better the project can theoretically be.]]]
[Citation needed]
I don't think there is any actual corelation like that. Give me some proof.
.
.
.
[[[So while some things might seem obvious to you, you are likely missing significant details that make them more complex. Sure, you might have plenty of experience, but so do the people who have been working on this game for a decade. Secondly, you don't even play anymore, so you have no actual knowledge of the current state of the game (and you have not been around long enough to see any so-called decline - in fact things have been improving since you left (coincidence I am sure ;)). You are operating based on extrapolations from what you experienced when you did play and from what people have said in the forums.]]]
Well, i know that 99% of updates are about android - only features and I also know that capships have not yet been implemented. I also know, that there are only 2 people actively developing the game.
That is more than enough to come to certain conclusions.
.
.
.
[[[Thirdly, I doubt you played long enough to actually begin to appreciate the true beauty of VO as a PVP platform, so you don't even understand the very game you are trying to save.]]]
Well, PVP is not my speciality, and that is probably why i have left. I don't feel like PVPing all the time.
I would like to have some other occupation, but the truth is that in VO, if you don't PVP, there is nothing much to do.
Botting ? Becomes boring after few months.
Mine ? Boring like hell.
Trading ? Averagely interesting to boring, but still there isn't enough expensive things to buy after you get your first 5.000.000 credits.
I also proposed how to fix that above. There is nothing obvious to do with large amounts of cash in this game. Unbalanced.
.
.
.
[[[Yes, some of your ideas would improve the game. They have not been implemented yet. So what? Your ideas are not the only ideas. The devs have more than ten years worth of their own ideas piled up, plus volumes of ideas that people have posted on these forums over the years. They will get around to it. Or not. Doesn't matter much, none of your ideas were as critical as you seem to think.]]]
Well, some of them were more critical than you think and so easy to implement, that should be done years ago.
.
.
.
[[[Your intentions are good, but this is Guild Software's game, not yours, so it is their problem to worry about, not yours. I can understand that you are worried it will fail, but you should relax. They have stated several times that they're currently on the best financial ground they've been on in a very long time (ever? I forget). It will work out. If it doesn't, tough cookies.]]]
So they should stop tempting me with "Have a suggestion ? Share it on suggestion forums !" texts. That is annoying because i come here and share my ideas just to be trolled and bashed endlessly.
.
.
.
[[[Actually, the best thing you can do for this or any game is to play the game. Ryan actually does that, as do I.]]]
I will, as soon as capships show up.
Then, i will stay for few months, and conclude there is nothing really interesting to do anymore, and leave.
The usual.
You are so completely full of yourself... maybe VO is dull for you but, the two biggest guilds are not PvP based.
TGFT is trade and they have a load of fun.
PA is _________ based and they have a load of fun.
ORE, somehow finds delight in mining... must be a zen thing.
EMS, is vehemently ANTI violence, and they have a blast. More than that, its fun to interact with them.
ONE and ITAN are PvP but... there is politics, espionage... etc... etc...
I personally and the BLF (all three active members) are more into the RP aspect of the game, and we have a blast. We raid the enemy, work with others to further our goals, do a brisk weapons trade with those we trust. Hell, we recently destroyed a systems economy on several levels.
I understand that YOU do not care for PvP, but if PvP is all you see when you play... you are not paying attention. The majority of us do our thing and have a blast doing it.
As for your ideas being trolled constantly... I've agreed with about one third of your ideas. Lecters even agreed with at least one. You really need to lose the mind set that everyone who disagrees with you is trolling you. Sure, it gets heated... but, when a person disagrees and then you explain in no uncertain terms that they are idiots for not realizing how brilliant your ideas are... guess what, they will get offended and say mean things.
Ninety percent of ideas will likely never make it in game. Even the ideas that make it in game don't always make it in "as is" many are modified. You need to accept that. It wouldn't hurt either to accept that people who have been playing 5 to 10 year or people who have had ideas implemented MIGHT, just maybe... know what the hell they are talking about and not trolling you, rather reacting to your insistence that you are right and they are idiots.
TGFT is trade and they have a load of fun.
PA is _________ based and they have a load of fun.
ORE, somehow finds delight in mining... must be a zen thing.
EMS, is vehemently ANTI violence, and they have a blast. More than that, its fun to interact with them.
ONE and ITAN are PvP but... there is politics, espionage... etc... etc...
I personally and the BLF (all three active members) are more into the RP aspect of the game, and we have a blast. We raid the enemy, work with others to further our goals, do a brisk weapons trade with those we trust. Hell, we recently destroyed a systems economy on several levels.
I understand that YOU do not care for PvP, but if PvP is all you see when you play... you are not paying attention. The majority of us do our thing and have a blast doing it.
As for your ideas being trolled constantly... I've agreed with about one third of your ideas. Lecters even agreed with at least one. You really need to lose the mind set that everyone who disagrees with you is trolling you. Sure, it gets heated... but, when a person disagrees and then you explain in no uncertain terms that they are idiots for not realizing how brilliant your ideas are... guess what, they will get offended and say mean things.
Ninety percent of ideas will likely never make it in game. Even the ideas that make it in game don't always make it in "as is" many are modified. You need to accept that. It wouldn't hurt either to accept that people who have been playing 5 to 10 year or people who have had ideas implemented MIGHT, just maybe... know what the hell they are talking about and not trolling you, rather reacting to your insistence that you are right and they are idiots.
@ryan
[[[You are so completely full of yourself... maybe VO is dull for you]]]
Oh it's not that VO is dull. It's just that everything is relative.
Times change, new games come and it creates new standards & competition between game makers.
VO is a good game, definately not dull, if you like PVP very much. perhaps 8 years ago i would say it'scompletely outstanding and rules everything. But during the last 10 years of VO development, a lot happened in other games - they went much forward with playability and now it is simply matter of very strong competition that makes non-pvp aspects of VO feel dull.
.
.
[[[but, the two biggest guilds are not PvP based.
TGFT is trade and they have a load of fun.
PA is _________ based and they have a load of fun.
(...)
I personally and the BLF (all three active members) are more into the RP aspect of the game, and we have a blast. We raid the enemy, work with others to further our goals, do a brisk weapons trade with those we trust. Hell, we recently destroyed a systems economy on several levels.]]]
That is correct, but still there are very few people who get entertained by the current VO features. People mostly come and go, and only small fraction stays for longer. As I said earlier - "people with specific mindset, like yours".
There is at most (50-60 ?) people online at any time.
This is far from for example, EVE online. This game has potential to attract thousands with proper adjustements, yet it attracts so few.
Minecraft has shown that it is possible to attract thousands or even millions of players without spending millions on advertisement, having 20kk dollar budget and definately without making a game which is targetted at the so called "mainstream audience".
This is why i believe that VO can be made absolutely outstanding game - it just needs proper set of ideas to be implemented.
.
.
[[[I understand that YOU do not care for PvP, but if PvP is all you see when you play... you are not paying attention. The majority of us do our thing and have a blast doing it.]]]
There are other things than PVP, of course.... But they are mostly too boring to entertain me.
.
.
[[[As for your ideas being trolled constantly... I've agreed with about one third of your ideas. Lecters even agreed with at least one. You really need to lose the mind set that everyone who disagrees with you is trolling you. Sure, it gets heated... but, when a person disagrees and then you explain in no uncertain terms that they are idiots for not realizing how brilliant your ideas are... guess what, they will get offended and say mean things.]]]
Correct, I definately am talking everything too seriously.
I often wonder why is that.
.
.
[[[Ninety percent of ideas will likely never make it in game. Even the ideas that make it in game don't always make it in "as is" many are modified. You need to accept that.]]]
I accept that. But for now, none of my ideas got implemented, even the ones that were extremely easy to implement and incarnate himself said he liked it (sic !).
.
.
[[[It wouldn't hurt either to accept that people who have been playing 5 to 10 year or people who have had ideas implemented MIGHT, just maybe... know what the hell they are talking about and not trolling you, rather reacting to your insistence that you are right and they are idiots.]]]
I never said they were idiots.
Just think about it for a moment. If you have been in this game for so many years, would you rather think how to improve what is already in it, or devise something completely new & revolutionary ?
That is what i call "closed box thinking". You are so used to this game and to the CURRENT way of playing, that you only see the game for what IT IS NOW, instead for what it COULD BE.
Only few adjustments can make this game ORDER OF MAGNITUDE more interesting for players who don't specialize in pvp.
[[[You are so completely full of yourself... maybe VO is dull for you]]]
Oh it's not that VO is dull. It's just that everything is relative.
Times change, new games come and it creates new standards & competition between game makers.
VO is a good game, definately not dull, if you like PVP very much. perhaps 8 years ago i would say it'scompletely outstanding and rules everything. But during the last 10 years of VO development, a lot happened in other games - they went much forward with playability and now it is simply matter of very strong competition that makes non-pvp aspects of VO feel dull.
.
.
[[[but, the two biggest guilds are not PvP based.
TGFT is trade and they have a load of fun.
PA is _________ based and they have a load of fun.
(...)
I personally and the BLF (all three active members) are more into the RP aspect of the game, and we have a blast. We raid the enemy, work with others to further our goals, do a brisk weapons trade with those we trust. Hell, we recently destroyed a systems economy on several levels.]]]
That is correct, but still there are very few people who get entertained by the current VO features. People mostly come and go, and only small fraction stays for longer. As I said earlier - "people with specific mindset, like yours".
There is at most (50-60 ?) people online at any time.
This is far from for example, EVE online. This game has potential to attract thousands with proper adjustements, yet it attracts so few.
Minecraft has shown that it is possible to attract thousands or even millions of players without spending millions on advertisement, having 20kk dollar budget and definately without making a game which is targetted at the so called "mainstream audience".
This is why i believe that VO can be made absolutely outstanding game - it just needs proper set of ideas to be implemented.
.
.
[[[I understand that YOU do not care for PvP, but if PvP is all you see when you play... you are not paying attention. The majority of us do our thing and have a blast doing it.]]]
There are other things than PVP, of course.... But they are mostly too boring to entertain me.
.
.
[[[As for your ideas being trolled constantly... I've agreed with about one third of your ideas. Lecters even agreed with at least one. You really need to lose the mind set that everyone who disagrees with you is trolling you. Sure, it gets heated... but, when a person disagrees and then you explain in no uncertain terms that they are idiots for not realizing how brilliant your ideas are... guess what, they will get offended and say mean things.]]]
Correct, I definately am talking everything too seriously.
I often wonder why is that.
.
.
[[[Ninety percent of ideas will likely never make it in game. Even the ideas that make it in game don't always make it in "as is" many are modified. You need to accept that.]]]
I accept that. But for now, none of my ideas got implemented, even the ones that were extremely easy to implement and incarnate himself said he liked it (sic !).
.
.
[[[It wouldn't hurt either to accept that people who have been playing 5 to 10 year or people who have had ideas implemented MIGHT, just maybe... know what the hell they are talking about and not trolling you, rather reacting to your insistence that you are right and they are idiots.]]]
I never said they were idiots.
Just think about it for a moment. If you have been in this game for so many years, would you rather think how to improve what is already in it, or devise something completely new & revolutionary ?
That is what i call "closed box thinking". You are so used to this game and to the CURRENT way of playing, that you only see the game for what IT IS NOW, instead for what it COULD BE.
Only few adjustments can make this game ORDER OF MAGNITUDE more interesting for players who don't specialize in pvp.