Forums » Suggestions
-If we do have a specialty slot/equipment slot/optional slot then there should be a cloaking field where enemies would only be able to see you at 1500m instead of 2000m.
-Then have a energy supply like when ur out of energy u can use a energy recharge and it charges ur energy half way but can only use it once then u have to recharge it back at a station.
-How about side boosters? like if theres rockets coming at you press tab and d together or something then it would boost sideways? that way people who ram would have a hard time ramming.hehe
- An energy weapon amplifier would be nice. an equip item where you add maybe 250 or 100 extra damage to energy weapons(very good if u have a flechette cannon) but increases energy comsumption.
- A SHIELD!!!! have a shield which would add 2500 or 1500 armor points to ur ship. Might need something else to it though like a shield defense system like if u get hit too much at a time then have an overheat thing then the shield shuts down for a period of time.
Thats all i've thought up of but most prolly wont work for vendetta
-Then have a energy supply like when ur out of energy u can use a energy recharge and it charges ur energy half way but can only use it once then u have to recharge it back at a station.
-How about side boosters? like if theres rockets coming at you press tab and d together or something then it would boost sideways? that way people who ram would have a hard time ramming.hehe
- An energy weapon amplifier would be nice. an equip item where you add maybe 250 or 100 extra damage to energy weapons(very good if u have a flechette cannon) but increases energy comsumption.
- A SHIELD!!!! have a shield which would add 2500 or 1500 armor points to ur ship. Might need something else to it though like a shield defense system like if u get hit too much at a time then have an overheat thing then the shield shuts down for a period of time.
Thats all i've thought up of but most prolly wont work for vendetta
If we do have -any- of this, it NEEDS to be mission-based. You shouldn't be able to just "buy" a shield, you should need to work for it!
"- A SHIELD!!!! have a shield which would add 2500 or 1500 armor points to ur ship. Might need something else to it though like a shield defense system like if u get hit too much at a time then have an overheat thing then the shield shuts down for a period of time." - Trigger
Hmmm... The shield would (I assume) use battery charge. Maybe to discourage its over use it could use charge slowly while enabled and faster when getting hit. that way you can't really run and shield at the same time or just turn it on and hunt for n00bs who dont-know/cant-afford.
Maybe damage to it could also damage charge. Decreasing the max charge capacity till repaired... might effect wormhole use though... more thought needed...errg... brain hurt....
Hmmm... The shield would (I assume) use battery charge. Maybe to discourage its over use it could use charge slowly while enabled and faster when getting hit. that way you can't really run and shield at the same time or just turn it on and hunt for n00bs who dont-know/cant-afford.
Maybe damage to it could also damage charge. Decreasing the max charge capacity till repaired... might effect wormhole use though... more thought needed...errg... brain hurt....
"- A SHIELD!!!!..."
This is one of the most common requests in the suggestions forum. You'll find a thread on shields or that mentions shields on about every other page in forum. About the only requests that are more common are for rear firing turrets and 'flares'.
Everyone has thier own unique take on how shields would work. Your 'shields are just more hit points' take is one of the simpliest and also least common. Most people want more complex shields, with the 'shields are like a hit point battery' being the most common opinion - probably because that is the way shields work in the most common space combat games. My take is alot more esoteric, and I humbly (or not) submit that it is the most complex system anyone has proposed, but I'm willing to defend its reasoning.
Sage talks about damage types...
http://vendetta.guildsoftware.com/?action=msgboard&thread=2258
General questioning of why we should even bother having shields...
http://vendetta.guildsoftware.com/?action=msgboard&thread=1435
Detailed description of the 'armor' system I advocate based on how armor is handled in most modern pen and paper RPG's. Reading this is essential for understanding my favorite take on how shields should work...
http://vendetta.guildsoftware.com/?action=msgboard&thread=1416
Overview of 'shields' as I envision them. Note that I principally see the purpose of the shield as a means of making combat with ships larger than fighter size interesting...
http://vendetta.guildsoftware.com/?action=msgboard&thread=2314
This is one of the most common requests in the suggestions forum. You'll find a thread on shields or that mentions shields on about every other page in forum. About the only requests that are more common are for rear firing turrets and 'flares'.
Everyone has thier own unique take on how shields would work. Your 'shields are just more hit points' take is one of the simpliest and also least common. Most people want more complex shields, with the 'shields are like a hit point battery' being the most common opinion - probably because that is the way shields work in the most common space combat games. My take is alot more esoteric, and I humbly (or not) submit that it is the most complex system anyone has proposed, but I'm willing to defend its reasoning.
Sage talks about damage types...
http://vendetta.guildsoftware.com/?action=msgboard&thread=2258
General questioning of why we should even bother having shields...
http://vendetta.guildsoftware.com/?action=msgboard&thread=1435
Detailed description of the 'armor' system I advocate based on how armor is handled in most modern pen and paper RPG's. Reading this is essential for understanding my favorite take on how shields should work...
http://vendetta.guildsoftware.com/?action=msgboard&thread=1416
Overview of 'shields' as I envision them. Note that I principally see the purpose of the shield as a means of making combat with ships larger than fighter size interesting...
http://vendetta.guildsoftware.com/?action=msgboard&thread=2314
The Ultimate Defense/Countermeasures System: PDS turrets and/or Flares and Chaff launcher that fires electrically charged chaff and some heat flares out to foil the heads of incoming missiles making them detonate early. What would be kinda cool is if the missile went "dumb" became wayward and then could slam into any craft and cause damage. Kinda like in Colony Wars 3 if anyone has ever played it.
I actualy don't like PDS systems. It seems kinda idodical to mount a large, probably bulky, anti-missile turret. It seems to me like a waste of a good weapon. I vastly prefere jamming, chaff/flare, evasion. Maybe just caus thats what i've learned from all my flight sims. It seems more likely that we will carry our existing tech into space rather then come up with "PDS" turrets.
Jamming presents a new level to the game, one that balences out the missiles, instead of completely nerfing the missiles like a PDS system would probably do. Jamming presents an effect, it doesn't require energy or aiming, but it does require PERFICT TIMING. You had better know then exactly to turn that jammer on so that the missile has a) not enough time to figure a way around the jamming and b) not come too close where it's locked on so jamming becomes null. I don't want another weapon port taken up by a stupid antimissile system that simply automaticly takes away all my missile problems. I want to have an added layer of skill, that yes if you are good at timing, you can get rid of the missile.
Jamming presents a new level to the game, one that balences out the missiles, instead of completely nerfing the missiles like a PDS system would probably do. Jamming presents an effect, it doesn't require energy or aiming, but it does require PERFICT TIMING. You had better know then exactly to turn that jammer on so that the missile has a) not enough time to figure a way around the jamming and b) not come too close where it's locked on so jamming becomes null. I don't want another weapon port taken up by a stupid antimissile system that simply automaticly takes away all my missile problems. I want to have an added layer of skill, that yes if you are good at timing, you can get rid of the missile.
Skyfox, I agree with you entirely. Although Jamming does have one inherant flaw, Timing. The skill taken to perfect the timing would take too long and newbs who would really need the PDSs most would be still, at a disadvantage.
Flares and Chaff as I expressed earlier would be nice as a standard outfit for all craft. It wouldn't take a Hardpoint up but you could make it consume ammo so that missiles would still be worth buying. Also, not all missiles would be deflected by the flares and chaff, maybe only 5% would get through...Who knows...see my PDS thread for more on Chaff and Flares
[SDF] Black 1
CO, SDF
Head Engineer SST (Serco Systems Technologies)
Flares and Chaff as I expressed earlier would be nice as a standard outfit for all craft. It wouldn't take a Hardpoint up but you could make it consume ammo so that missiles would still be worth buying. Also, not all missiles would be deflected by the flares and chaff, maybe only 5% would get through...Who knows...see my PDS thread for more on Chaff and Flares
[SDF] Black 1
CO, SDF
Head Engineer SST (Serco Systems Technologies)
Skyfox, I agree with you entirely. Although Jamming does have one inherant flaw, Timing. The skill taken to perfect the timing would take too long and newbs who would really need the PDSs most would be still, at a disadvantage.
Flares and Chaff as I expressed earlier would be nice as a standard outfit for all craft. It wouldn't take a Hardpoint up but you could make it consume ammo so that missiles would still be worth buying. Also, not all missiles would be deflected by the flares and chaff, maybe only 5% would get through...Who knows...see my PDS thread for more on Chaff and Flares
[SDF] Black 1
CO, SDF
Head Engineer SST (Serco Systems Technologies)
Flares and Chaff as I expressed earlier would be nice as a standard outfit for all craft. It wouldn't take a Hardpoint up but you could make it consume ammo so that missiles would still be worth buying. Also, not all missiles would be deflected by the flares and chaff, maybe only 5% would get through...Who knows...see my PDS thread for more on Chaff and Flares
[SDF] Black 1
CO, SDF
Head Engineer SST (Serco Systems Technologies)
*bump* so that roguelazer is content
Coutnermeasures is nessisary if we want to keep guided missiles in the game. Being wiped out by somthing you simply can't avoid no matter how good you are is no fun at all. I think that there should be two types of ECM.
Much like modern day aircraft, (Falcon 4 is awsome game, practicly all thats used is missiles, yet for the most part awsome for the skill required to fight right.) we have flares/chaff, which is held in a certian quantity in a small hold to be released upon pushing a button. The chaff/flare creats a massive signature which the missile will immidiatly home into. This is a sort of "last resort" if the main ECM - jamming, fails. The jamming uses multiple frequency waves to distrupt the missiles tracking system, now this isn't always the fixer, a lot of times a missile will find its way around the system, and if you turn on the system too late, then it will do no good. Basicly, if you leave it on too long, it fails, if you put it on too late, it fails. Proper usage of the jamming system will result in your getting away safely. Lazy, and unskilled use will do you practicly nothing.
Also, whenever we get enough sectors, to make special outfits/toys specific to far, out of reach, high tech systems where it costs a lot of money- you can get a very good jammer, then you have your crap jammers back in normal space.
I want there to be MORE seeker missiles and stuff. Although, with those seekers, there need to be an effective anti missile system so that fighting remians interesting.
Much like modern day aircraft, (Falcon 4 is awsome game, practicly all thats used is missiles, yet for the most part awsome for the skill required to fight right.) we have flares/chaff, which is held in a certian quantity in a small hold to be released upon pushing a button. The chaff/flare creats a massive signature which the missile will immidiatly home into. This is a sort of "last resort" if the main ECM - jamming, fails. The jamming uses multiple frequency waves to distrupt the missiles tracking system, now this isn't always the fixer, a lot of times a missile will find its way around the system, and if you turn on the system too late, then it will do no good. Basicly, if you leave it on too long, it fails, if you put it on too late, it fails. Proper usage of the jamming system will result in your getting away safely. Lazy, and unskilled use will do you practicly nothing.
Also, whenever we get enough sectors, to make special outfits/toys specific to far, out of reach, high tech systems where it costs a lot of money- you can get a very good jammer, then you have your crap jammers back in normal space.
I want there to be MORE seeker missiles and stuff. Although, with those seekers, there need to be an effective anti missile system so that fighting remians interesting.
Skyfox: Some would say now that the guided missiles in the game are so easy to avoid that we don't need countermeasures, but I agree with you that before we make any better guided missiles (see the toys thread for some examples) we need countermeasures for just the reason you state.
One solution to 'rocket ramming' that doesn't get mentioned much anymore is having 'gizmos' that can be installed on a ship that would reduce the chances of enemy missile weapons succesfully attacking your ship. Most of these gizmos would fit an 'equipment slot' where non-weapon systems could be mounted. Generally speaking, we've always discussed these things in conjuction with guided weapons, but some of the 'gizmos' that have been thought up are equally applicable to rockets.
So here I'm going to list some of the major anti-missile systems (my favorites at least) that various people have mentioned.
1) ECM: This is my personal favorite. Most people don't quite understand what I'm mean when I use this phrase because they are thinking of only 'jamming' technologies which cause guided weapons to lose thier guidance - which I might call 'dumb ECM'. Instead of 'dumb ECM', I'm thinking of 'smart ECM' that attempts to 'hack' the enemy munition's sensors or processors and fool it about its target. We already have this technology and I would assume that as time goes on it will only become more and more prevelent.
To give you the idea in detail, I'll quote from Jim Dunnigan's excellent website www.strategypage.com:
"A lot of little known, but very useful, equipment got its first real workout in Iraq. One of these was the fifty pound Shortstop Electronic Protection System (SEPS). This is a 50 pound, vehicle mounted system that detects the radar signals transmitted by proximity fuzes in artillery and mortar shells, and rockets. A proximity fuze enables a shell or rocket to detonate above the ground, thus showering troops with fragments. Without the proximity fuze, the shell hits the ground, and that's [where] a lot of the fragments end up right away. SEPS will broadcast a signal that will fool the enemy proximity fuze into going off prematurely, leaving nearly all the fragments to fall harmlessly to the ground. Because of the weak signal from proximity fuzes, SEPS can only protect an area about 250 meters out, and even then, only about half the enemy proximity fuzes will be detonated prematurely. Even with those limitations, the $250,000 SEPS units, which can set up and in action within 30 seconds, were popular with the troops. They could often see another unit getting hammered by enemy artillery, and the premature shell detonations were pretty obvious."
That's exactly the sort of ECM I have in mind when I mention ECM. Those of you familiar with the works of Ian M. Banks and Gordon R. Dickson are probably already familiar with this sort of ECM in a sci-fi context.
The system I envision would work something like the following ( although there are probably better implementations that could be thought up, which is why I'm reopening the discussion). Each ship with an active ECM gizmo would be surrounded by two intangible spheroids at roughly 30m and 60m for fighter grade ECM, and at 50m and 100m for capital ship grade ECM. A missile weapon crossing each sphere would have a base 50% chance of detonating (ideally depending on the weapon type and quality), causing reduced or no damage to the target (and potentially blowing up the weapon in the face of the firer). The ECM could be toggled on or off - since weapons would be easier to dodge with it off. While on it would consume a small ammount of continious power - say 5 energy/sec for fighter grade and 50 energy/sec for capital ship grade.
2) Jamming Beam: This is the 'dumb ECM' version. Essentially it works like the above, but only works on guided weapons. Guided weapons entering the invisible spheroid around the target lose thier target.
3) Counter-measure dispencer: Counter-measures is a general term, but I can't think of a better one for the kind of system I'm thinking of here. Basically when active, the counter measure dispencer automatically fires a small short range high velocity homing missile at any missile type munition that gets within a certain range (say 100m). In addition to chasing down its target, the munition tries to get guided missiles to chase it instead of thier target.
4) Chaff dispenser: One of the more frequently discussed types of counter measures, this doesn't necessarily have to be literal metal 'chaff' but rather a dropable counter measure of some sort that attempts to electromagnetically trick guided missiles into believing that it is thier target. How successful it is depends on how close the target and chaff are the missile. It's possible that the chaff dispencer only works on particular kinds of guided munitions. It's also possible that chaff might cause a confusing double image on radar. Because its of relatively limited use, it should be cheap and readily available.
5) Flares: The standard counterpart to chaff in most games of this type, flares is another missile countermeasure based on 1960's technology that is sort of anachronistic in a sci-fi game but still might have a place if only to keep n00bs for asking why we don't have flares. Basically, this is a very cheap and readily available countermeasure that only works on a very limited class of guided munitions - namely 'heat seeking' ones like the Gemini's, and tricks them into believing thier target is the flare and not the ship.
6) ECM rockets: A small weapon slot countermeasure that works like 'smart ECM' above but the 'ECM sphere' is tied to a relatively high speed rocket. Possibly, useful for defeating head on rocket attacks.
7) ECM mines: A small weapon slot countermeasure that works like 'smart ECM' above but the ECM sphere is tied to a relatively long duration stationary mine. Useful as terrain for dodging rockets, and for preventing overrun attacks with rockets - ei a so called 'rocket rammer' makes an attack pass, you dodge the rocket, and drop behind a mine which potentially catches the firer in his own barrage if he isn't careful.
8) 'Wild Weasel': A term borrowed from SFB which is in turn borrowed from the name a particular type of US electronic warfare plane, 'Wild Weasel' refers to using a powerful electronic signal to fool all of the guided munitions in the area (for our purposes lets say 600m) into thinking you are thier target. Basically, useful in a specialized electonic warfare ship, this would allow you to protect your allies from attack at presumably a reasonably high cost in continious energy. Of course, you better have a good means of protecting yourself as well. :)
9) Anti-missile system: General term for the various 'laser' or gatling type means of shooting down incoming missile munitions (similar I suppose to the US Phlanyx system) that have been suggested by a large number of people. I don't particularly favor this idea because in effect it does the same thing as the 'Smart ECM' system but appears to me to require alot more video processing, server calculations, and bandwidth usage. Therefore, I'd just as soon use the 'Smart ECM' implementation.
10) Radar Jammer: While not technically a missile countermeasure, if various classes of guided missiles are introduced which require 'locks' or point to point guidance, a radar jammer (whether dumb or smart, and in this case dumb) would be an effective countermeasure against them. Basically, this is a means of rendering all enemy radars 'blind' to all targets except those broadcasting jamming signals within a certain range at some cost in continious power. If a particular guided missile requires a radar lock to function, then obviously 'blinding' the firing weapons radar is an effective means of protecting all of your allies in range from those weapons. Also generally useful even if the opponents aren't using those types of weapons, because it means your friends are more likely to be able to blindside thier targets. Of course, with a 'dumb jammer' the jamming vessel shows up like a sore thumb, but a 'smart jammer' that 'gets in the head' of the radar and basically turns it off might prove to powerful (it has no real drawback compared to the enormous advantage it provides).
So here I'm going to list some of the major anti-missile systems (my favorites at least) that various people have mentioned.
1) ECM: This is my personal favorite. Most people don't quite understand what I'm mean when I use this phrase because they are thinking of only 'jamming' technologies which cause guided weapons to lose thier guidance - which I might call 'dumb ECM'. Instead of 'dumb ECM', I'm thinking of 'smart ECM' that attempts to 'hack' the enemy munition's sensors or processors and fool it about its target. We already have this technology and I would assume that as time goes on it will only become more and more prevelent.
To give you the idea in detail, I'll quote from Jim Dunnigan's excellent website www.strategypage.com:
"A lot of little known, but very useful, equipment got its first real workout in Iraq. One of these was the fifty pound Shortstop Electronic Protection System (SEPS). This is a 50 pound, vehicle mounted system that detects the radar signals transmitted by proximity fuzes in artillery and mortar shells, and rockets. A proximity fuze enables a shell or rocket to detonate above the ground, thus showering troops with fragments. Without the proximity fuze, the shell hits the ground, and that's [where] a lot of the fragments end up right away. SEPS will broadcast a signal that will fool the enemy proximity fuze into going off prematurely, leaving nearly all the fragments to fall harmlessly to the ground. Because of the weak signal from proximity fuzes, SEPS can only protect an area about 250 meters out, and even then, only about half the enemy proximity fuzes will be detonated prematurely. Even with those limitations, the $250,000 SEPS units, which can set up and in action within 30 seconds, were popular with the troops. They could often see another unit getting hammered by enemy artillery, and the premature shell detonations were pretty obvious."
That's exactly the sort of ECM I have in mind when I mention ECM. Those of you familiar with the works of Ian M. Banks and Gordon R. Dickson are probably already familiar with this sort of ECM in a sci-fi context.
The system I envision would work something like the following ( although there are probably better implementations that could be thought up, which is why I'm reopening the discussion). Each ship with an active ECM gizmo would be surrounded by two intangible spheroids at roughly 30m and 60m for fighter grade ECM, and at 50m and 100m for capital ship grade ECM. A missile weapon crossing each sphere would have a base 50% chance of detonating (ideally depending on the weapon type and quality), causing reduced or no damage to the target (and potentially blowing up the weapon in the face of the firer). The ECM could be toggled on or off - since weapons would be easier to dodge with it off. While on it would consume a small ammount of continious power - say 5 energy/sec for fighter grade and 50 energy/sec for capital ship grade.
2) Jamming Beam: This is the 'dumb ECM' version. Essentially it works like the above, but only works on guided weapons. Guided weapons entering the invisible spheroid around the target lose thier target.
3) Counter-measure dispencer: Counter-measures is a general term, but I can't think of a better one for the kind of system I'm thinking of here. Basically when active, the counter measure dispencer automatically fires a small short range high velocity homing missile at any missile type munition that gets within a certain range (say 100m). In addition to chasing down its target, the munition tries to get guided missiles to chase it instead of thier target.
4) Chaff dispenser: One of the more frequently discussed types of counter measures, this doesn't necessarily have to be literal metal 'chaff' but rather a dropable counter measure of some sort that attempts to electromagnetically trick guided missiles into believing that it is thier target. How successful it is depends on how close the target and chaff are the missile. It's possible that the chaff dispencer only works on particular kinds of guided munitions. It's also possible that chaff might cause a confusing double image on radar. Because its of relatively limited use, it should be cheap and readily available.
5) Flares: The standard counterpart to chaff in most games of this type, flares is another missile countermeasure based on 1960's technology that is sort of anachronistic in a sci-fi game but still might have a place if only to keep n00bs for asking why we don't have flares. Basically, this is a very cheap and readily available countermeasure that only works on a very limited class of guided munitions - namely 'heat seeking' ones like the Gemini's, and tricks them into believing thier target is the flare and not the ship.
6) ECM rockets: A small weapon slot countermeasure that works like 'smart ECM' above but the 'ECM sphere' is tied to a relatively high speed rocket. Possibly, useful for defeating head on rocket attacks.
7) ECM mines: A small weapon slot countermeasure that works like 'smart ECM' above but the ECM sphere is tied to a relatively long duration stationary mine. Useful as terrain for dodging rockets, and for preventing overrun attacks with rockets - ei a so called 'rocket rammer' makes an attack pass, you dodge the rocket, and drop behind a mine which potentially catches the firer in his own barrage if he isn't careful.
8) 'Wild Weasel': A term borrowed from SFB which is in turn borrowed from the name a particular type of US electronic warfare plane, 'Wild Weasel' refers to using a powerful electronic signal to fool all of the guided munitions in the area (for our purposes lets say 600m) into thinking you are thier target. Basically, useful in a specialized electonic warfare ship, this would allow you to protect your allies from attack at presumably a reasonably high cost in continious energy. Of course, you better have a good means of protecting yourself as well. :)
9) Anti-missile system: General term for the various 'laser' or gatling type means of shooting down incoming missile munitions (similar I suppose to the US Phlanyx system) that have been suggested by a large number of people. I don't particularly favor this idea because in effect it does the same thing as the 'Smart ECM' system but appears to me to require alot more video processing, server calculations, and bandwidth usage. Therefore, I'd just as soon use the 'Smart ECM' implementation.
10) Radar Jammer: While not technically a missile countermeasure, if various classes of guided missiles are introduced which require 'locks' or point to point guidance, a radar jammer (whether dumb or smart, and in this case dumb) would be an effective countermeasure against them. Basically, this is a means of rendering all enemy radars 'blind' to all targets except those broadcasting jamming signals within a certain range at some cost in continious power. If a particular guided missile requires a radar lock to function, then obviously 'blinding' the firing weapons radar is an effective means of protecting all of your allies in range from those weapons. Also generally useful even if the opponents aren't using those types of weapons, because it means your friends are more likely to be able to blindside thier targets. Of course, with a 'dumb jammer' the jamming vessel shows up like a sore thumb, but a 'smart jammer' that 'gets in the head' of the radar and basically turns it off might prove to powerful (it has no real drawback compared to the enormous advantage it provides).
I like it!
/me puts "n00bs stamp of approval" on celebrim's post
/me puts "n00bs stamp of approval" on celebrim's post
I love the ECM idea!! think about how easy it would be to use nukes on fighters and stuff!! just think!!! instead of a 10m prox radius, it would have 50m!
Sorry Cele, i just had to. I would think it would be better if it confused the missle's prox range, so it thought it was no where near hitting, unless got withing 1/2 the normal prox range
Sorry Cele, i just had to. I would think it would be better if it confused the missle's prox range, so it thought it was no where near hitting, unless got withing 1/2 the normal prox range
if we have ECM, we need ECCM, else the guided weapons aren't any good at all.
make them take up more space (less missiles per rack) or fire less frequently (eccm has to warm up or something).
we can't just nerf the whole missile menu.
make them take up more space (less missiles per rack) or fire less frequently (eccm has to warm up or something).
we can't just nerf the whole missile menu.
I'm not even sure this is necessary. If Rockets were targetable and destructible the problem would be solved
Urza: "Sorry Cele, i just had to."
What are you sorry for? Bring it on.
"I love the ECM idea!! think about how easy it would be to use nukes on fighters and stuff!! just think!!! instead of a 10m prox radius, it would have 50m!"
And in this case I don't even have to make up a responce. I can just quote myself:
"The ECM could be toggled on or off - since weapons would be easier to dodge with it off. While on it would consume a small ammount of continious power - say 5 energy/sec for fighter grade and 50 energy/sec for capital ship grade."
Hmmm, you think maybe I had thought of that? Hmmm, seeing how I'm all the time saying 'balance', 'balance', 'balance' like a broken record you think maybe that I might not suggest anything with a powerful effect if I didn't think it had a drawback?
"I would think it would be better if it confused the missle's prox range, so it thought it was no where near hitting..."
That might work OK for centurians and valkyries, but it probably wouldn't be so nice for larger and less manueverable ships. Besides which, if it worked the way you suggest it would be too good. It would be basically impossible to hit a Valk with a rocket, but the same could not be said of a Valks ability to hit something else with a rocket.
Sage: "If Rockets were targetable and destructible the problem would be solved."
I don't think targetable rockets would change a damn thing. I can't think of many if any fights I've been involved in where the ability to target the rocket would have been all that important.
toshiro: The guided weapons aren't that good already, which is fitting of a weapon that takes little or no skill to fire. Before you can have good guided weapons, you have to have things like 'radar locks' or active guidance or point to point guidance so that some skill is required to use the weapon (and players are given a chance to screw them up).
What are you sorry for? Bring it on.
"I love the ECM idea!! think about how easy it would be to use nukes on fighters and stuff!! just think!!! instead of a 10m prox radius, it would have 50m!"
And in this case I don't even have to make up a responce. I can just quote myself:
"The ECM could be toggled on or off - since weapons would be easier to dodge with it off. While on it would consume a small ammount of continious power - say 5 energy/sec for fighter grade and 50 energy/sec for capital ship grade."
Hmmm, you think maybe I had thought of that? Hmmm, seeing how I'm all the time saying 'balance', 'balance', 'balance' like a broken record you think maybe that I might not suggest anything with a powerful effect if I didn't think it had a drawback?
"I would think it would be better if it confused the missle's prox range, so it thought it was no where near hitting..."
That might work OK for centurians and valkyries, but it probably wouldn't be so nice for larger and less manueverable ships. Besides which, if it worked the way you suggest it would be too good. It would be basically impossible to hit a Valk with a rocket, but the same could not be said of a Valks ability to hit something else with a rocket.
Sage: "If Rockets were targetable and destructible the problem would be solved."
I don't think targetable rockets would change a damn thing. I can't think of many if any fights I've been involved in where the ability to target the rocket would have been all that important.
toshiro: The guided weapons aren't that good already, which is fitting of a weapon that takes little or no skill to fire. Before you can have good guided weapons, you have to have things like 'radar locks' or active guidance or point to point guidance so that some skill is required to use the weapon (and players are given a chance to screw them up).
i have seen people who have done many forgetful things (forget to set up weapons, forget to spot a nuke heading at the astroid near them, ect) SO what makes you so sure people would remember to turn it off? The odds are they wouldn't.
As for valks and rockets, well..
A) no equiptment slots in it
B) Dont forget that it's only a 50% chance or so that this might happen
C) there is no C for now.
As for valks and rockets, well..
A) no equiptment slots in it
B) Dont forget that it's only a 50% chance or so that this might happen
C) there is no C for now.
ecm and jammers and chaff & flares are nice and all, but how about a weapon slot item "decoy missile"
decoy missile
size - small
ammo - 6 (1 shot fires 1 missile)
fuel - 20 seconds
effect - when launched, the missile immidiately begins a series of random doges, while emitting a false set of electronic signals that confuses enemy radar into thinking the missile is you. all ships and missiles locked onto you when the decoy is fired have a 50% chance of locking onto the decoy instead.
adv decoy missile
size - large
ammo - 5 (1 shot fires 1 missile)
fuel - 15 seconds
effect - same as basic decoy rockets, except that all missiles, and ships locked onto you when you fire have a 95% chance of locking onto the decoy instead of you.
obviously this would do nothing versus rockets as they are unguided, and visually the decoy image could still appear as a missile so it wouldnt do much good in an in your face dogfight. but against guided missiles or if you can get more than 350-400m from an opponent, it could be useful.
decoy missile
size - small
ammo - 6 (1 shot fires 1 missile)
fuel - 20 seconds
effect - when launched, the missile immidiately begins a series of random doges, while emitting a false set of electronic signals that confuses enemy radar into thinking the missile is you. all ships and missiles locked onto you when the decoy is fired have a 50% chance of locking onto the decoy instead.
adv decoy missile
size - large
ammo - 5 (1 shot fires 1 missile)
fuel - 15 seconds
effect - same as basic decoy rockets, except that all missiles, and ships locked onto you when you fire have a 95% chance of locking onto the decoy instead of you.
obviously this would do nothing versus rockets as they are unguided, and visually the decoy image could still appear as a missile so it wouldnt do much good in an in your face dogfight. but against guided missiles or if you can get more than 350-400m from an opponent, it could be useful.
Urza: "i have seen people who have done many forgetful things (forget to set up weapons, forget to spot a nuke heading at the astroid near them, ect) SO what makes you so sure people would remember to turn it off? The odds are they wouldn't."
I guess that's one of the ways we'd separate the skillful, awake experienced pilots, from the unskillful, inattentive, rookie pilots, right?
Gee, you think making the pilot show some skill is a bad idea?
Spellcast: Nice idea, but basically that's what the 'counter measure dispencer' does, only the counter measure dispencer also has a back up plan in the event that it can't fool the incoming munitions or they are unguided.
Still, weapon slot counter measures wouldn't be bad. I think the advanced decoy is too good though. It's all the advantages of a 'Wild Weasel' and none of the drawbacks.
I guess that's one of the ways we'd separate the skillful, awake experienced pilots, from the unskillful, inattentive, rookie pilots, right?
Gee, you think making the pilot show some skill is a bad idea?
Spellcast: Nice idea, but basically that's what the 'counter measure dispencer' does, only the counter measure dispencer also has a back up plan in the event that it can't fool the incoming munitions or they are unguided.
Still, weapon slot counter measures wouldn't be bad. I think the advanced decoy is too good though. It's all the advantages of a 'Wild Weasel' and none of the drawbacks.