Forums » Suggestions

Ship flag transponders / Ship avatars

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Sep 27, 2010 Pizzasgood link
How does it do nothing to improve gameplay? Making it easier to quickly know who exactly is around you and where is certainly an improvement. Maybe not a huge improvement, but an improvement nonetheless. And it would be more useful to me than capships. That said I don't recall anybody demanding that this take precedence. It is up to the devs to decide when if ever to do something like this.

I still would rather have an option to make player names hover instead of flags, but flags of some sort are better than nothing.

Flags do offer a potential advantage in recognition speed, but only after they have been strongly associated with a name. The reason is that flags can be more distinct than text. But if you don't already have a strong association between them in your mind, colored names would be faster.

Of course, both could be done at the same time - flags with the name above or below them...
Sep 27, 2010 ryan reign link
Pizza... I jump in and see ten ships. The pilots names and guild tags appear on my HUD. Lets say five PA, two TGFT, one ITAN and two ONE. Before each name, is their guild tag. Before the guild tag is a number (assigned by which is closest). I know that out of that group the biggest danger to me personally is from ITAN, I press the corresponding number and the ITAN pilot is targeted.

I see everyone within range as well as their affiliations, I therefore know who/how dangerous they are and I target the biggest threat. Hence, this adds nothing top the game that doesn't exist already.

I'm glad that you don't especially care about cappies but some of us have been waiting for them for five years and others have been waiting longer.

Also, thank you for not taking the position of "persecuted saviour of VO".
Sep 27, 2010 PaladinOfLancelot link
@ryan reign

[[[Quick question, are you high, stupid or both?]]]

Omg, Is THAT the best You can do ? Trying to insult somebody that is trying to help You (and trying quite hard btw) ?
I expected something better from somebody who supposedly runs the only 2 RP guilds in the game.

Are You sure You are not a troll after all ?

[[[The implementation of this atrocious turd you've polished and called an idea, draws time away from the developers. Time that could be used for, the economy, fixing the faction system, improving conquerable stations, player owned cappies... etc... etc.
Not to mention that your idea... (and I use the term idea in the loosest possible terms here)... does nothing to improve game play.]]]

Wrong, wrong and... wrong.
Again, You only think so because i haven't actually **PRIORITIZED** my suggestions, which is because this is forum **DOES NOT SUPPORT POLLS** or semi-automated **SUGGESTION PRIORIETIZING**.
Which is another of my suggestions, by the way.

So, if there was an automated system for such things (which BY THE WAY is probably supported by major forum systems such as PHPBB/SMF etc.), i would have done so long ago.
So no, I'm not taking ANY implementation/development time from developers, because things can be prioritized and if something is less useful, it can be implemented last, after more important things.

[[[This is actually lose/lose.]]]

You say so.

[[[Don't bother replying if the best you can do is...
(...)
]]]

So now You're angry that I'm telling You the truth ?
You ARE closed-box thinker man. I wonder this game has even survived for this long if people on this forums are always so NEGATIVE to new ideas.

I am really AMAZED of how You can't see this is a good idea. Yes, it is not superb, but still good and it **ABSOLUTELY WILL** improve gameplay.

[[[2. This one is just fucking ridiculous. ]]]

Explain why. I like to watch a big battle and know exactly what is happening and who gets shot by whom.
The visual flag system would be far superior to what it looks now.

[[[3. So, your brain can actually recognize a flag faster than you can recognize a printed name and guild tag? Back that up with fact.]]]

Simple.
Evolution for hundered millions of years allowed the brain to recognize simple symbols (as patterns, colors etc) fast which can be used to detect danger, predators or determine difference between poisonous/healthy foods, in contrary to written word, which is a quite new invention of mankind, so the brain surely hasn't adapted to the changes yet. At least not in the same level as it has adapted to recognizing symbols.
I think no biologist/evolutionist will argue with that.

[[[4. Good list them all.]]]

Perhaps later i will.

[[[By the way, why is it that when ever some one disagrees with you... they are closed minded afraid of change, unable to think outside the box... blah blah, blah? Did you ever consider the possibility that your ideas suck?]]]

Sure, I'm thinking about it all the time.
I have much much much much more ideas, I just don't post them **AT ALL** because some of them either suck or are not compatibile with this game, so I immediately reject them before i even write them down anywhere.
Sep 27, 2010 Pizzasgood link
Knowing distances is nice, being able to look at the battlefield and know how the various forces are distributed across it is even better. Perhaps those who are most dangerous to you are already occupied by a mutual enemy, while some less dangerous foes are slightly outnumbering your allies. In that case it may be better to help defeat the lesser but more immediate threat, and then swoop in as a group on whoever is left from the more dangerous group(s).

I don't have much experience with group tactics so the above may be a bad example, but I hope you see my point. Otherwise we'll have to agree to disagree.

@Paladin: It is much easier to read if you make quoted text italic instead of using [[[ ]]]. See this post.
Sep 27, 2010 ryan reign link
"Are You sure You are not a troll after all ?"

So, I'm a troll when I disagree with your ideas?

"You say so."

Yes, I do.

"You ARE closed-box thinker man. I wonder this game has even survived for this long if people on this forums are always so NEGATIVE to new ideas."

So, again... just so I'm clear. This only applies when I disagree with you? It occurs to me that perhaps you are blinded by what you think are good ideas, thus it is you who are the "closed-box thinker".

"Evolution for hundered millions of years allowed the brain to recognize simple symbols (as patterns, colors etc) fast which can be used to detect danger, predators or determine difference between poisonous/healthy foods, in contrary to written word, which is a quite new invention of mankind, so the brain surely hasn't adapted to the changes yet. At least not in the same level as it has adapted to recognizing symbols."

Silly me. I forgot entirely that letters do not, when grouped together, convey a specific meaning.

"Perhaps later i will."

Sure you will. You made a statement, I challenged you to back it up. You have failed to do so.

[stamp of epic mega fail]
Sep 28, 2010 PaladinOfLancelot link
@ryan

[[[So, I'm a troll when I disagree with your ideas?]]]

It's quite easy to explain. Usually when i see some conception in a certain way, i automatically assume everybody will think of it the same way. That's probably because i try to treat all people in the same way as I would treat myself, so i automatically assume they will think similarly to me (my mistake here, sorry). That is probably why i don't understand why You "can't get it" that this is a great idea.

Also, You just don't give any serious arguments. The arguments You have given are not satisfactory or logical enough to convince me.
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[[[Silly me. I forgot entirely that letters do not, when grouped together, convey a specific meaning.]]]

Invalid/weak argument.

_SIMPLE_ symbols such as flags are simply easier to recognize than letter for many reasons:
1. Less complexity
2. (as already stated) Longer brain evolution & adaptation - the symbols were here for millions of years, letters not.
3. Letters require social LEARNING process to actually read them, while symbols do not. It's very logical that symbols will be much easier to recognize, because the function to do that is HARD-WIRED to our brain, not learned in school like letters.
4. What if somebody is a moron, and can hardly read/read very slow ? (and believe me, i've met such people). Are their brains processing letters at the same speed as symbols ?
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[[[So, again... just so I'm clear. This only applies when I disagree with you? It occurs to me that perhaps you are blinded by what you think are good ideas, thus it is you who are the "closed-box thinker".]]]

No, it happens when people do not give enough arguments and just want the other person to believe they are right because they said so.
So let me do a quick review of Your arguments:

{{{ Your argument number 1. "Pizza... I jump in and see ten ships. The pilots names and guild tags appear on my HUD. Lets say five PA, two TGFT, one ITAN and two ONE. Before each name, is their guild tag. Before the guild tag is a number (assigned by which is closest). I know that out of that group the biggest danger to me personally is from ITAN, I press the corresponding number and the ITAN pilot is targeted." }}}

A logical argument. But let me explain why You are wrong.

Contr-argument: Yes, You see 10 ships. Yes, You have each of them on targetless.
But targetless' way of showing who is who is NOWHERE NEAR AS ACCURATE as the flag system would be because of one simple reason: With the flag system, You always see updated position & alignment of every object on Your screen, WITHOUT the need to read any text or even REMEMBER who is who.
Also, this is easier to read (symbols Vs. text again) and Your brain can accomodate to the changes much faster.

Let me give You an example: What happens if there are 10 players on Your viewscreen, You don't look at the screen for like 30 seconds AND Your distance from all the objects is at least 3000m, and then suddenly all the players change their positions randomly while You were not watching. Will You be able to tell exactly who is who in 2 seconds after You look back at the screen with targetless ?
There is NO WAY You are going to be able to do this. You will need to target every single object one after another to see who is who.

It happens every time any players/bots/object reorganize on the screen at random. A flag system would allow every player to **IMMEDIATELY** tell what is happening on the screen, even if there is large number of randomly moving objects on it.

{{{ Your argument number 2. Quick question, are you high, stupid or both? }}}

Contra: Is that an argument, or You were just trying to insult me ? Because i start to wonder...

{{{ Your argument number 3. The implementation of this atrocious turd you've polished and called an idea, draws time away from the developers }}}

Contra: Invalid argument. I already explained why is that in my previous posts.

{{{ Your argument number 4. This one is just fucking ridiculous. }}}

Would You care to elaborate on this, dear Sir ?
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[[[Sure you will. You made a statement, I challenged you to back it up. You have failed to do so.]]]

Of course i will.
How many discussions like this do You think i had with people on different forums ? Let me tell You: A LOT.
And I
1. Am beginning to get tired of this
2. Don't have all the time in the universe to discuss with You. I have other things, such as real life as well.

So let me tell You how else the flags can be used, because I am just ASSPLODING with ideas (as always).
And FOR THE RECORD - 6 of these ideas i invented while-you-wait and only one i invented yesterday.

1. Stations flags, containing the usual symbols of the faction, and some simple information displayed using symbols. Easy to recognize from distance.
1a.Flagging conquerable stations with flags of the player/guild who owns them.
2. Event item flags, : for event where there is something to capture (the capturable item would be tagged with flag so everybody can quickly see where it is from great distance)
3. Race ship flags. Where flags are used in racing event to tag ships in the same way bolids are tagged on a race course.
3a.Battle event ship flags - for people taking part in an event. Their normal flags are replaced with temporary - event only flag.
3b.Generic event ship flags - winners (or losers) of an event are forced to wear a temporary flag for a period of time (losers are forced, winners have choice) - again: this creates PRESTIGE (and this time the prestige is properly earned).
4. Easy roid identification system : semi-flag like symbols showing what ore does a previously scanned roid have from large distance (probably medicore idea, but I'm giving You an example of how many ideas I'm capable of)

Do You want me to continue, or You had enough ?

Everything i have told You is true - i can actually produce lots of new ideas with BLAZING SPEED while-you-wait. And NO, i DO NOT post a lot of them, because a large number of them either suck, or is not compatibile with this game.

EDIT: Also, I'm totally NOT saying, that all above ideas are good. I'm just saying i can produce a lot of them.
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[[[[stamp of epic mega fail]]]]

[stamp of mega-epic argument fail]
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I hope You are satisfied with my explanation and my post in general, because i just wasted over 50 minutes of my precious sleep time for You. (And when i don't get enough sleep time, i get almost sick)
Oh my god, how i hate this. It happens every time i discuss on the net.
Sep 28, 2010 tarenty link
Paladin, /ignore
Sep 28, 2010 PaladinOfLancelot link
@tarenty

[[[Paladin, /ignore]]]

Ah yeah whatever, just kick my newbie's ass and keep having the space-quake you like so much.

I'm outta here.

/logout
Sep 28, 2010 PaKettle link
Having players upload images is problematic at best. There are a large number of legal and company image issues that Guild wants to avoid.

There is a way around the problem tho.
A plug-in could be tied to a central server to handle the images and the rest should be doable in lua.

Using a plug-in keeps Guild off the hook for the image problems and allows the player base to handle those issues instead.
Sep 28, 2010 Dr. Lecter link
I'm outta here.

/logout


That's the only intelligent thing you've managed to say in two pages of gibberish. Kudos.

And please, please . . . don't get sick. That would break my [DELETED BY WHISTLER]ing heart.
Sep 28, 2010 Pizzasgood link
You say you are tired of arguing with people on the net. There is a simple solution. Don't argue with them. State your points clearly once. If they don't get it, elaborate a little. But don't bother going into an endless debate. You cannot make everybody agree with you, regardless of whether you're correct.

If it seems that somebody is insulting you, don't even bother with that person, because they probably aren't going to do anything else besides continue to insult you.

@PaKettle: Good point, I hadn't thought about the potential copyright and trademark problems. I tend to forget how anal some people are.

I would be happy to build a hovering-names plugin, if I had some way to obtain ship positions via Lua. (I assume we can already render text at arbitrary locations, but I could be wrong.) I don't care enough about flags to bother with making a flag plugin though. Not sure I could make it smoothly keep up with ship motion either.
Sep 28, 2010 Alloh link
Pizza, what about making a flag for each nation, and major/active guilds? Few simple flags (images) using existing VO elements, distributed inside plugin file?

I think of it as shifting the forward radar to main display. but with a more detailled status than friend|foe.

Player receives his nation's flag, or his guild's flag if affiliated.

Then, if it works, moves towards Pakettle's idea, with a player-run flag repository, permiting also personal and event flags.

In a later stage, make that player can select which flag wear in the repository, to use his own flag, or an event's flag. And server keep a list of (login,flag) read by plugin. complete with one web form with a field for playername and a droplist of flags (normal,teamA,teamB,...).

For me, even one letter inside a solid color rectangle near each ship would do a good job towards OP...
Sep 28, 2010 Dr. Lecter link
if I had some way to obtain ship positions via Lua

You have no idea what problems that would cause, do you?

Also, because Polelickin'Lancemelots really asked for it with that last screed:

Sep 28, 2010 tarenty link
Ignoring trolls would make VO a lot more fun for you, Paladin.

Though we don't have a space quake. Ship transponders aren't really that important, and the devs' time is limited.
Sep 28, 2010 ryan reign link
Lets see if this sinks in.

1. I do not like your idea.
2. I do not believe it will add anything to game play.
3. I am not required to explain myself (though I have) and no amount of you re-explaining your idea is going to make me (or any one else that does not like it, suddenly like it.).
4. People would respond better to you if you didn't read that they do not like your ideas and then try to explain why they are wrong and or troll based on the fact they do not like your idea.
5. Just a point of curiosity, do you spend a lot of time nailed to a cross? I only ask because you have a very obvious Christ Complex. Not an especially serious disorder, though this would be the first time I have seen it applied to a video game.
Sep 28, 2010 ryan reign link
[Deleted due to double post]