Forums » Suggestions
Eleminate the "space boredom" coming from its emptyness. Huge idea.
Hello Vendetta,
I would like to propose something that would (in my opinion) fix the main of Vendetta's problems, which torments all of space-based simulation games.
I think that the reasons for which Vendetta (and all of space-based simulation games) is not so intensively addictive as other MMO's such as World of Warcraft or Silkroad Online are as follows:
a) Reason I (all space-based simulation games): Space is empty. Space is boring. There's mostly nothing in space, so it does not feed the senses and the mind with data as You travel/fight/trade/mine, so the senses become bored.
b) Reason II (Vendetta specifically): Vendetta is not grindable enough to be so addictive as most MMO's games.
While we can't do much about b) (as Vendetta is real-skill based, not grinding based), i think we can do a lot about a). The problem is that space is just too damn empty.
.
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There (i think) are 2 sollutions to space-emptiness problem:
1. Sollution (I) - Very easy to implement.
- Inform the players where something "is happening". Make the systems in which most of people are blink, pulse, wave or something on the map. This will close players together, as they will know where most people is and come to play with them ;). I often happen to notice that people don't know if there is anybody in the game, so they ask on the chat. That is because the space has this kinda "emptynees-feeling" which makes one wonder if there is anybody there while there is no activity on chat.
Explanation:
This is what the Vendetta Star Map looks like now:
And this is what it would like after my suggestion would be implemented:
- Of course, to prevent abuses, only the top 3 or top 5 systems should blink.
- Another limitation could be that if there are not enough people at the game, this feature does not work. Perhaps 5 people in the game at one time should be minimum.
- Another abuse-prevention measure could be that it works with 5-minutes delay, so cannot be used to track people's movement effectively.
- There could be 3 or more levels of signalling as marked on the map. For example: Green = X <= 5 players, Aqua = X > 5, X <= 15 players in the sector, Red = X > 15 players in the sector.
The explanation can be that a lot of spaceship engines running in the same system sends a lot of muon/other exotic particles radiation, which travels faster than light and can be detected from anywhere in the galaxy. The radiation however has limited speed, so it takes for it 5 minutes to reach entire galaxy (which gives us explanation for the delay balancement)
.
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2. Sollution (II) - Difficult to implement:
The sollution from non-space MMO's: Make space actually less empty, fill most of space with bots. Let the player be attacked by (even weak) bots almost everywhere he goes. This will also make trading and every other player activity more challenging & more interesting. Just look at WOW. When You play WOW or Silkroad Online (and MMO's like it), you are constantly attacked by everything just once You get out of Your safe haven (city/town).
Details:
A) Multiply the number of convoys by 50 times (so there is CONSTANT MOVEMENT everywhere). The stations should actually LOOK as REAL space stations with REALLY HEAVY TRAFFIC. Several ships per second should enter and exit the station.
B) Create bot-NPC pirates. (has been suggested before)
C) Make hive bots constantly attack all stations (even in the protected space). All stations should be constantly attacked by the hive. The stations in Itani/UIT/Serco space will be protected effectively though, so no bots will get near the station (they will be destroyed by turrets long before they get there). But the stations in grey space will not have enough protection, so players will need to fight or escape bots just to enter/leave the station.
D) To give the brain even more nourishment, everything should be constantly changed at random. Part of the roid fields could be moving in-and-out of the sector (as the real roids do). That would also create new mining opportunities by the way. Perhaps the stations should move and change position veeeeeeeeery slowly.
I would like to propose something that would (in my opinion) fix the main of Vendetta's problems, which torments all of space-based simulation games.
I think that the reasons for which Vendetta (and all of space-based simulation games) is not so intensively addictive as other MMO's such as World of Warcraft or Silkroad Online are as follows:
a) Reason I (all space-based simulation games): Space is empty. Space is boring. There's mostly nothing in space, so it does not feed the senses and the mind with data as You travel/fight/trade/mine, so the senses become bored.
b) Reason II (Vendetta specifically): Vendetta is not grindable enough to be so addictive as most MMO's games.
While we can't do much about b) (as Vendetta is real-skill based, not grinding based), i think we can do a lot about a). The problem is that space is just too damn empty.
.
.
There (i think) are 2 sollutions to space-emptiness problem:
1. Sollution (I) - Very easy to implement.
- Inform the players where something "is happening". Make the systems in which most of people are blink, pulse, wave or something on the map. This will close players together, as they will know where most people is and come to play with them ;). I often happen to notice that people don't know if there is anybody in the game, so they ask on the chat. That is because the space has this kinda "emptynees-feeling" which makes one wonder if there is anybody there while there is no activity on chat.
Explanation:
This is what the Vendetta Star Map looks like now:
And this is what it would like after my suggestion would be implemented:
- Of course, to prevent abuses, only the top 3 or top 5 systems should blink.
- Another limitation could be that if there are not enough people at the game, this feature does not work. Perhaps 5 people in the game at one time should be minimum.
- Another abuse-prevention measure could be that it works with 5-minutes delay, so cannot be used to track people's movement effectively.
- There could be 3 or more levels of signalling as marked on the map. For example: Green = X <= 5 players, Aqua = X > 5, X <= 15 players in the sector, Red = X > 15 players in the sector.
The explanation can be that a lot of spaceship engines running in the same system sends a lot of muon/other exotic particles radiation, which travels faster than light and can be detected from anywhere in the galaxy. The radiation however has limited speed, so it takes for it 5 minutes to reach entire galaxy (which gives us explanation for the delay balancement)
.
.
2. Sollution (II) - Difficult to implement:
The sollution from non-space MMO's: Make space actually less empty, fill most of space with bots. Let the player be attacked by (even weak) bots almost everywhere he goes. This will also make trading and every other player activity more challenging & more interesting. Just look at WOW. When You play WOW or Silkroad Online (and MMO's like it), you are constantly attacked by everything just once You get out of Your safe haven (city/town).
Details:
A) Multiply the number of convoys by 50 times (so there is CONSTANT MOVEMENT everywhere). The stations should actually LOOK as REAL space stations with REALLY HEAVY TRAFFIC. Several ships per second should enter and exit the station.
B) Create bot-NPC pirates. (has been suggested before)
C) Make hive bots constantly attack all stations (even in the protected space). All stations should be constantly attacked by the hive. The stations in Itani/UIT/Serco space will be protected effectively though, so no bots will get near the station (they will be destroyed by turrets long before they get there). But the stations in grey space will not have enough protection, so players will need to fight or escape bots just to enter/leave the station.
D) To give the brain even more nourishment, everything should be constantly changed at random. Part of the roid fields could be moving in-and-out of the sector (as the real roids do). That would also create new mining opportunities by the way. Perhaps the stations should move and change position veeeeeeeeery slowly.
I dunno about C or D, but A and B have been planned for a very long time. There were some technical caveats they have delayed "A" a bit.. we had some efficiency problems with large numbers of ships for awhile, and there were some general convoy-tracking issues (we still haven't resolved the whole convoy+storm jump position issue).
But yes, at the very least, Capitol stations should have a constant flow of traffic going to and fro. Smaller stations to a lesser extent.
I also totally agree with the need for helping people find one another within the game. We have some plans for this (group matchmaking, among other things), and there is clearly a necessity to help people see that stuff "is going on". The blinking sector thing will tend to give away a lot of information, I guess I have some concerns over it showing more than people want to broadcast about their whereabouts. But it might work under certain circumstances, or perhaps over a particular player-density threshold.
But yes, at the very least, Capitol stations should have a constant flow of traffic going to and fro. Smaller stations to a lesser extent.
I also totally agree with the need for helping people find one another within the game. We have some plans for this (group matchmaking, among other things), and there is clearly a necessity to help people see that stuff "is going on". The blinking sector thing will tend to give away a lot of information, I guess I have some concerns over it showing more than people want to broadcast about their whereabouts. But it might work under certain circumstances, or perhaps over a particular player-density threshold.
I'm happy to hear that You are already working on most of my suggestions here... It seems we share a common idea about how this game should look like.
So what about the implementation of on-map system blinking ?
I mean this is REALLY little work (like maximum 2-3 hours for a programmer), and it could REALLY improve the game.
I feel that after few algorithm tweaks it will function very well. Of course there is a risk of players abusing it, but this can be solved using adjustments of delay and minimum player threshold parameters. Almost everything is a matter of proper balancement.
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EDIT:
Another possible improvement: The places where EVENTS are happening should also blink in a different way (or a different color).
So what about the implementation of on-map system blinking ?
I mean this is REALLY little work (like maximum 2-3 hours for a programmer), and it could REALLY improve the game.
I feel that after few algorithm tweaks it will function very well. Of course there is a risk of players abusing it, but this can be solved using adjustments of delay and minimum player threshold parameters. Almost everything is a matter of proper balancement.
---------
EDIT:
Another possible improvement: The places where EVENTS are happening should also blink in a different way (or a different color).
Some old, some new ideas, but all good ideas!
Title says "huge", let me think bigger:
1) HotSpots: Instead of blinking maps, we could have nations issuing "NOTAM"s about piracy, combats, hive, storms, etc., based on other players reports.
I consider a sort of BBS more immersive than map's systems blinking...
A) Convoys: Just double it, where players are present. Make that if a convoy reaches any sector 2 jumps away from any player it no longer does the journey crossing sector threads, but uses an engine shortcut. And if no one is present at destination (or 1-jump-away), complete convoy witout docking.
So we keep rendered traffic active only near real people.
B) BotRats: Make small packs of hive bots act like hunter-gathered party. They attack anyone, and take cargo and scraps back to queen.
Seems easier to implement/justify/balance than NPC rats. And a logical consequence of Hive need for resources.
C) Hive vs Stations: Check (B). Botrats predates human ships. Humans scraps bots... resources flow.
D) Moving Roids: All roids should be moving, allways. They are in orbit, never static. Not readily feasible in VO.
First make all roids rotate, slowly. Most much slower than now rotating ones, but rotating, like 1...3 rotations per hour. The bigger the slower.
Then make all them have a simple closed path inside same sector, moving slowly in random directions, almost like a gravitacionally bound system.
This would add immediate life to universe.
--> Already proposed, but can integrate:
E) BBS tab: One easy to read, with news, bounties, offers, sales, etc... and where players and Guilds could post ads, report piracy, challenge duels, trade offers, etc.
This would be simple to develop, test and deploy adapting existing web tools. Ad board, messaging, some auto-fill content (races, war, ctc, bounty news), book of records, whatever.
Then just add a simple WAP (or html) render tab to client and we're set.
Make VO players more connected in-game...
Title says "huge", let me think bigger:
1) HotSpots: Instead of blinking maps, we could have nations issuing "NOTAM"s about piracy, combats, hive, storms, etc., based on other players reports.
I consider a sort of BBS more immersive than map's systems blinking...
A) Convoys: Just double it, where players are present. Make that if a convoy reaches any sector 2 jumps away from any player it no longer does the journey crossing sector threads, but uses an engine shortcut. And if no one is present at destination (or 1-jump-away), complete convoy witout docking.
So we keep rendered traffic active only near real people.
B) BotRats: Make small packs of hive bots act like hunter-gathered party. They attack anyone, and take cargo and scraps back to queen.
Seems easier to implement/justify/balance than NPC rats. And a logical consequence of Hive need for resources.
C) Hive vs Stations: Check (B). Botrats predates human ships. Humans scraps bots... resources flow.
D) Moving Roids: All roids should be moving, allways. They are in orbit, never static. Not readily feasible in VO.
First make all roids rotate, slowly. Most much slower than now rotating ones, but rotating, like 1...3 rotations per hour. The bigger the slower.
Then make all them have a simple closed path inside same sector, moving slowly in random directions, almost like a gravitacionally bound system.
This would add immediate life to universe.
--> Already proposed, but can integrate:
E) BBS tab: One easy to read, with news, bounties, offers, sales, etc... and where players and Guilds could post ads, report piracy, challenge duels, trade offers, etc.
This would be simple to develop, test and deploy adapting existing web tools. Ad board, messaging, some auto-fill content (races, war, ctc, bounty news), book of records, whatever.
Then just add a simple WAP (or html) render tab to client and we're set.
Make VO players more connected in-game...
WoW's monster density is more annoying than damp socks. Granted, it is occasionally amusing to visit a low-level area and massacre things, or to activate Thorns and watch anything that touches me die. But in general, not being able to move more than a few meters without aggroing some brainless mob makes me want to turn it off, fire up VO, and murder people.
That said I wouldn't be opposed to the hive being a bit more aggressive, trying to attack the occasional station (including player owned stations) and having to be exterminated. But not the constant assault on our senses that you describe.
That said I wouldn't be opposed to the hive being a bit more aggressive, trying to attack the occasional station (including player owned stations) and having to be exterminated. But not the constant assault on our senses that you describe.
@Pizzasgood
[[[WoW's monster density is more annoying than damp socks.]]]
Yes, that's why we don't have to make it as dense as WoW. But 20-40% of WoW's density would be nice.
[[[But not the constant assault on our senses that you describe.]]]
The constant assault is not so absolutely necessary.
The general idea is to make things "happening" a lot, and to fill the space with something moving. So for example it could be filled with a lot of convoys/trade/some random travelling ships, NPC pirates, and little less of bots attacking everything.
.
.
.
@Alloh:
In general, Your improvements are a matter for a different topic. you should repost them to a new one.
[[[HotSpots: Instead of blinking maps, we could have nations issuing "NOTAM"s about piracy, combats, hive, storms, etc., based on other players reports.
I consider a sort of BBS more immersive than map's systems blinking... ]]]
This is not a bad idea, however it will not always work. There are times when there is some certain number of people in a single sector/system, and they are not doing ANYTHING at all (so no NOTAM's).
The feature You are talking about is a different one from mine.
Same thing with BBS - it is a completely different feature than the one I'm talking about.
[[[WoW's monster density is more annoying than damp socks.]]]
Yes, that's why we don't have to make it as dense as WoW. But 20-40% of WoW's density would be nice.
[[[But not the constant assault on our senses that you describe.]]]
The constant assault is not so absolutely necessary.
The general idea is to make things "happening" a lot, and to fill the space with something moving. So for example it could be filled with a lot of convoys/trade/some random travelling ships, NPC pirates, and little less of bots attacking everything.
.
.
.
@Alloh:
In general, Your improvements are a matter for a different topic. you should repost them to a new one.
[[[HotSpots: Instead of blinking maps, we could have nations issuing "NOTAM"s about piracy, combats, hive, storms, etc., based on other players reports.
I consider a sort of BBS more immersive than map's systems blinking... ]]]
This is not a bad idea, however it will not always work. There are times when there is some certain number of people in a single sector/system, and they are not doing ANYTHING at all (so no NOTAM's).
The feature You are talking about is a different one from mine.
Same thing with BBS - it is a completely different feature than the one I'm talking about.
Mea Culpa... OT, but related...
The stations should actually LOOK as REAL space stations with REALLY HEAVY TRAFFIC.
I would caution against applying any sort of mimetic injunction to VO, considering that VO itself is not only a fiction and thus not bound to what we commonly refer to as "reality," but also that we have only one space station at the moment, and traffic to and fro is quite barren. We have no "real" space station with which to compare VO, but by all accounts, "real" space civilization would probably be even more barren than VO. Now, I agree that we need a more lively, populated game, but I just want to make sure that we want it for the right reasons. Mimesis is not one of them.
+1 to bot pirates / maurading groups
+1 to more station traffic
I wouldn't mind having a kind of FPS-style "Seidl fragged CrazySpence" somewhere on the HUD.
Btw, a Fallout 3-style group of radio stations would certainly make space a lot more interesting. I could dig me Galaxy News Radio.
I would caution against applying any sort of mimetic injunction to VO, considering that VO itself is not only a fiction and thus not bound to what we commonly refer to as "reality," but also that we have only one space station at the moment, and traffic to and fro is quite barren. We have no "real" space station with which to compare VO, but by all accounts, "real" space civilization would probably be even more barren than VO. Now, I agree that we need a more lively, populated game, but I just want to make sure that we want it for the right reasons. Mimesis is not one of them.
+1 to bot pirates / maurading groups
+1 to more station traffic
I wouldn't mind having a kind of FPS-style "Seidl fragged CrazySpence" somewhere on the HUD.
Btw, a Fallout 3-style group of radio stations would certainly make space a lot more interesting. I could dig me Galaxy News Radio.
There are hundreds of billions of people in the VO verse. A 4 billion massacre at sol II wasn't enough to cripple the serco population on that planet, that should give a reference to the populations on large planets and stations. The large human population combined with the smallness of VO's ships (a moth is effectively a big truck rather than a super tanker) is justification enough for trade traffic worthy of a big city traffic jam..Now I don't want something quite so busy, but it'll be nice to see a convoy go out of a station every 10-30 seconds or so. Actually, I wouldn't mind if the bigger space stations grew as well.