Forums » Suggestions
Disableing...
After my first player battle last night I got this rather cool idea. Wouldn't ship disabling be awsome? Being able to target an apponents weapons or engines to disable their ship. Of course anyone being disabled would hate the idea... The idea of floating through space unable to do anything to save your self. While your attacker hovers just off your bow flipping you off and hitting the fire button.
But think of it this way. If you play dead you might just get that shot you wanted while they act all cool hovering at your bow...
And what about tractor beams... For towing ones friend to a station for a repair. Or for throwing off your apponent with a sudden change of direction.
These are just a couple of ideas I had while I was floating as space debre. At least if I was disabled I might have been able to shoot that last shot I needed to win. Oh well.
But think of it this way. If you play dead you might just get that shot you wanted while they act all cool hovering at your bow...
And what about tractor beams... For towing ones friend to a station for a repair. Or for throwing off your apponent with a sudden change of direction.
These are just a couple of ideas I had while I was floating as space debre. At least if I was disabled I might have been able to shoot that last shot I needed to win. Oh well.
I doubt we'll ever be able to completely disable a ship's engines. Although maybe if it only disabled boosting, but left cruising alone, that might work. Or what about oxygen leaks when the hull is breached? You'll have a certain amount of time to dock and repair before you run out of oxygen. That'd be cool.
Both ideas have been discussed at some length. My position is summarized as:
Disabling works well for single player games. It works less well for multiplayer games.
Disabling in a multiplayer game needs to be much more limited in scope so that you reduce the aggravation of someone who finds his ship disabled and has to cope with his helplessness. I favor limited disablization over full disablization. I would support weapons that caused a ship to work 'less well' rather than one which stopped a ship from working entirely. They would still accomplish all the RP/strategy concepts you want in 'disabling', but they would be less frustrating.
If I had a weapon that made your engines work only half as well, or caused some of your weapons to stop working for a few minutes, I still can yell - 'Surrender dog, or I'll turn you into a diffuse particulate cloud!' - and you if you know what is good for you better listen, or you can die trying to fight to the bitter end against insane odds (and maybe even win once in a blue moon).
Everyone loves the idea of being able to disable something. Few people focus on the fact that you can be disabled. How would you like Bots regularly disabling you and leaving your ship helpless in space?
"But think of it this way. If you play dead you might just get that shot you wanted while they act all cool hovering at your bow... "
Yeah, right. Real gamers aren't regularly as stupid as the villians in movies are consistantly. It's never going to happen.
"And what about tractor beams... "
Also been talked about. Could be cool. A couple of different implementations have been discussed. Feel free to discuss the details that you would like to see.
Disabling works well for single player games. It works less well for multiplayer games.
Disabling in a multiplayer game needs to be much more limited in scope so that you reduce the aggravation of someone who finds his ship disabled and has to cope with his helplessness. I favor limited disablization over full disablization. I would support weapons that caused a ship to work 'less well' rather than one which stopped a ship from working entirely. They would still accomplish all the RP/strategy concepts you want in 'disabling', but they would be less frustrating.
If I had a weapon that made your engines work only half as well, or caused some of your weapons to stop working for a few minutes, I still can yell - 'Surrender dog, or I'll turn you into a diffuse particulate cloud!' - and you if you know what is good for you better listen, or you can die trying to fight to the bitter end against insane odds (and maybe even win once in a blue moon).
Everyone loves the idea of being able to disable something. Few people focus on the fact that you can be disabled. How would you like Bots regularly disabling you and leaving your ship helpless in space?
"But think of it this way. If you play dead you might just get that shot you wanted while they act all cool hovering at your bow... "
Yeah, right. Real gamers aren't regularly as stupid as the villians in movies are consistantly. It's never going to happen.
"And what about tractor beams... "
Also been talked about. Could be cool. A couple of different implementations have been discussed. Feel free to discuss the details that you would like to see.
I'm sure this has also been discussed before at length, but on a similar note systems damage would be a very interesting concept to implement. As your ship is brought down in armor points, there is a greater and greater chance that your ship's systems will be damaged. Any of the following could happen, perhaps depending on where your ship is hit:
Thruster damage: forward thrust/torque halved
Engine damage: top regular speed halved
Booster damage: turbo thrust/top speed halved
Capacitor damage: battery capacity is halved
Battery damage: recharge rate is halved
Cargo Bay damage: cargo capacity halved (all cargo over bay limit would be automatically jettisoned)
Radar damage: radar range is halved
Hud damage: hud flickers on and off every few seconds
Targeting Computer damage: player could no longer target objects
Weapon Port damage: a random weapon port is destroyed
Weapon System damage: weapons fire intermittently (refire rate is effectively doubled)
Docking Gear damage: Docking range is halved
Fuel Cell damage: (if fuel is ever implemented) Fuel effeciency is halved.
Shield Generator damage: (if shields are ever implemented) Shields fail.
*Critical System Failures*
Hull Breach: armor drains at the rate of 500 points per second until the ship explodes.
Fuel Leak: fuel drains until empty. depending on the ship's armor (i.e. if it's flaming or not) there is a chance every second that it will explode. (if fuel is implemented)
Battery Overload: ship explodes nuke-style ;)
Life Support: player dies within 10 seconds and respawns in the station. The ship continues to drift as a derelict. The derelict would belong to a special "Derelict nation" and no kill would be granted for killing it. (not sure about this one, but thought I'd throw it out there anyway)
Any of the above wouldn't force the player to just sit there waiting for rescue, but it would make fighting with a damaged ship all the more interesting besides a few neat graphical effects. This opens up a lot of other possibilities such as EMP weapons that are more likely to damage the ship's electrical systems (radar, hud, weapon systems, capacitors, battery, targeting comp, shield generator), or a "toy" that was a self-contained repair system and would gradually repair systems over time. Perhaps when you docked at a station system damage would cost more to repair than regular armor.
Thruster damage: forward thrust/torque halved
Engine damage: top regular speed halved
Booster damage: turbo thrust/top speed halved
Capacitor damage: battery capacity is halved
Battery damage: recharge rate is halved
Cargo Bay damage: cargo capacity halved (all cargo over bay limit would be automatically jettisoned)
Radar damage: radar range is halved
Hud damage: hud flickers on and off every few seconds
Targeting Computer damage: player could no longer target objects
Weapon Port damage: a random weapon port is destroyed
Weapon System damage: weapons fire intermittently (refire rate is effectively doubled)
Docking Gear damage: Docking range is halved
Fuel Cell damage: (if fuel is ever implemented) Fuel effeciency is halved.
Shield Generator damage: (if shields are ever implemented) Shields fail.
*Critical System Failures*
Hull Breach: armor drains at the rate of 500 points per second until the ship explodes.
Fuel Leak: fuel drains until empty. depending on the ship's armor (i.e. if it's flaming or not) there is a chance every second that it will explode. (if fuel is implemented)
Battery Overload: ship explodes nuke-style ;)
Life Support: player dies within 10 seconds and respawns in the station. The ship continues to drift as a derelict. The derelict would belong to a special "Derelict nation" and no kill would be granted for killing it. (not sure about this one, but thought I'd throw it out there anyway)
Any of the above wouldn't force the player to just sit there waiting for rescue, but it would make fighting with a damaged ship all the more interesting besides a few neat graphical effects. This opens up a lot of other possibilities such as EMP weapons that are more likely to damage the ship's electrical systems (radar, hud, weapon systems, capacitors, battery, targeting comp, shield generator), or a "toy" that was a self-contained repair system and would gradually repair systems over time. Perhaps when you docked at a station system damage would cost more to repair than regular armor.
The "life support" critical would be friggin' awesome if you could board and take over derelict ships (after repairing life support, of course). Imagine finding a derelict Furie... Of course, to counter this, you'd need random events for derelict ships, like EVN (there's a chance that a fleet of pirates will attack when you board a derelict ship [it was a trap]) or even Frozen Heart (if you boarded a certain derelict ship, you would get this plague thing, which put you into a mission thread)... *drools*
How can you have a fuel leak if there's no fuel to leak?
If you're suggesting that the game should have a fuel system, I'll have to say poop to that.
=b
If you're suggesting that the game should have a fuel system, I'll have to say poop to that.
=b
I say poop to that as well...
mabye battery acids leak?
corroding your ship's engne until it goes critical and explodes?
mabye battery acids leak?
corroding your ship's engne until it goes critical and explodes?
there IS the possibility of a battery "leaking".
a) as humpy said, the battery acid can leak. (EVERY energy storage device has to have a medium to store it in per definitionem, don't get smart with me =)
b) over time, batteries (accumulator cells, more precisely) will have waning performance rates. the time factor of a battery would be nice. say, if you have flown a ship for 2 weeks and used it heavily, you would get an indicator that said "please replace your battery within the next x days. if a battery ran out, you could still cruise, but not boost.
on disabling:
credits cannot be stolen or only to a certain amount (say, 5 or 10% of the disabled player's cash with a ceiling of 100k or so)
ships cannot be taken over
for the time i'm boarding the other ship, the two floating in space like lovesick flies, both are defenseless, and thus can be boarded themselves, obliterated (the other ship that was boarded would most likely blow up sympathetically, so no saving your chums)
on what celebrim said about disabling: of course you yourself could be disabled. it adds spice to the game imho, and with protective mechanisms it could be really fun, like that when you are disabled, bots cannot attack you, only players.
the being disabled could also work on a temporary basis, like your ship being frozen for a set amount of time, maybe just enough for the other to board, maybe not. after that, you are able to move again, and if shot again, you would be destroyed (as you would be at present anyway).
the bots could pose a real problem. like in s17, e.g. when disabled, the bots would return immediately, disabling you again, effectively wasting your time.
the ai could have a prohibitor that would keep them from attacking ships that have been disabled, this prohibitor reset if you leave and reenter the system/sector or dock (and repair. if you forget to reps, shame on you, you will be disabled again so you won't forget next time
a) as humpy said, the battery acid can leak. (EVERY energy storage device has to have a medium to store it in per definitionem, don't get smart with me =)
b) over time, batteries (accumulator cells, more precisely) will have waning performance rates. the time factor of a battery would be nice. say, if you have flown a ship for 2 weeks and used it heavily, you would get an indicator that said "please replace your battery within the next x days. if a battery ran out, you could still cruise, but not boost.
on disabling:
credits cannot be stolen or only to a certain amount (say, 5 or 10% of the disabled player's cash with a ceiling of 100k or so)
ships cannot be taken over
for the time i'm boarding the other ship, the two floating in space like lovesick flies, both are defenseless, and thus can be boarded themselves, obliterated (the other ship that was boarded would most likely blow up sympathetically, so no saving your chums)
on what celebrim said about disabling: of course you yourself could be disabled. it adds spice to the game imho, and with protective mechanisms it could be really fun, like that when you are disabled, bots cannot attack you, only players.
the being disabled could also work on a temporary basis, like your ship being frozen for a set amount of time, maybe just enough for the other to board, maybe not. after that, you are able to move again, and if shot again, you would be destroyed (as you would be at present anyway).
the bots could pose a real problem. like in s17, e.g. when disabled, the bots would return immediately, disabling you again, effectively wasting your time.
the ai could have a prohibitor that would keep them from attacking ships that have been disabled, this prohibitor reset if you leave and reenter the system/sector or dock (and repair. if you forget to reps, shame on you, you will be disabled again so you won't forget next time
toshiro, I do see a potential problem wsith a) and b). If battery energy were to drain over time, what happens if you are stuck in a sector with no station? You are screwed, that's what. You would never be able to jump. The same problem would go for my "fuel leak" idea.
b) is a really cool idea, but how about the battery recharge rate starts to gradually decrease over time rather than have your battery suddenly give out leaving you stranded. You could still fly around/boost/jump with a corroded battery, but only with a 1/second recharge rate :P.
As for "stealing credits" from a disabled ship, I really don't think this would work very well. How do you know how many credits were actually on the ship? What happens if you are in the middle of buying something and then all of a sudden you lose 100k credits because someone boarded your disabled ship halfway across the galaxy? Are credits an actual physical currency or simply data recorded by computers? If the latter it seems like "stealing credits" would be the job of a hacker, and wouldn't necessarily be related to boarding a disabled ship.
"both are defenseless, and thus can be boarded themselves"
Why would you be defenseless against boarding? Do you actually physically leave your own spacecraft and "get in" the spacecraft you just disabled? Seems unlikely if the damaged spacecraft is incapable of supporting life. Perhaps it could be done by a "Derelict raider" bot that you could buy. It would fly to the disabled ship, retreive as much cargo/weapons as it could carry, and fly back to your ship.
"being disabled could also work on a temporary basis, like your ship being frozen for a set amount of time"
I am strongly against leaving a player absolutely defenseless and free floating in space with nothing to do but wait or /explode. This would be more frustrating than fun. No matter how a ship gets "disabled" the player should already be dead and gone.
"when disabled, the bots would return immediately, disabling you again, effectively wasting your time."
My point exactly. Never leave a player with nothing to do but sit and stare at the skybox. It's a waste of time.
I don't mean to come off too strong, it's 9:00 AM and I'm still a little groggy. I really like the idea of having batteries lose preformance over time unless they are maintained. (this could work for a variety of other things as well, engines, weapons, radar etc.) But I am strongly against anything that would leave a player trapped or absolutely defenseless. Just think about what it would actually mean for a few minutes.
b) is a really cool idea, but how about the battery recharge rate starts to gradually decrease over time rather than have your battery suddenly give out leaving you stranded. You could still fly around/boost/jump with a corroded battery, but only with a 1/second recharge rate :P.
As for "stealing credits" from a disabled ship, I really don't think this would work very well. How do you know how many credits were actually on the ship? What happens if you are in the middle of buying something and then all of a sudden you lose 100k credits because someone boarded your disabled ship halfway across the galaxy? Are credits an actual physical currency or simply data recorded by computers? If the latter it seems like "stealing credits" would be the job of a hacker, and wouldn't necessarily be related to boarding a disabled ship.
"both are defenseless, and thus can be boarded themselves"
Why would you be defenseless against boarding? Do you actually physically leave your own spacecraft and "get in" the spacecraft you just disabled? Seems unlikely if the damaged spacecraft is incapable of supporting life. Perhaps it could be done by a "Derelict raider" bot that you could buy. It would fly to the disabled ship, retreive as much cargo/weapons as it could carry, and fly back to your ship.
"being disabled could also work on a temporary basis, like your ship being frozen for a set amount of time"
I am strongly against leaving a player absolutely defenseless and free floating in space with nothing to do but wait or /explode. This would be more frustrating than fun. No matter how a ship gets "disabled" the player should already be dead and gone.
"when disabled, the bots would return immediately, disabling you again, effectively wasting your time."
My point exactly. Never leave a player with nothing to do but sit and stare at the skybox. It's a waste of time.
I don't mean to come off too strong, it's 9:00 AM and I'm still a little groggy. I really like the idea of having batteries lose preformance over time unless they are maintained. (this could work for a variety of other things as well, engines, weapons, radar etc.) But I am strongly against anything that would leave a player trapped or absolutely defenseless. Just think about what it would actually mean for a few minutes.
You're right about being screwed over if you're in a sector without a station. I'd also hate to be 20km away from the nearest statoin without boosters.
I do however like the other ideas that were listed: weapon performance drop, agility/speed reduction, changes in flight dynamics, etc.
I do however like the other ideas that were listed: weapon performance drop, agility/speed reduction, changes in flight dynamics, etc.
I believe disabling has appeared in many semi-related topics, and reading through them I've come up with a sort of idea for "disabling"
1. When a ship is disabled, it acts like the char has been killed. He/she is sent back to their home station as if it is gone.
2. The cargo/equipment is left intact, and has a chance of being stolen by a passerby. There is also a chance that you run into the ships defence systems, which deal damage to the boarder. This could mean kill, this could mean just damage, or this could mean that the ship is suddenly controlled by a bot, and begins to attack you. Same hull damage of course.
3. You can capture the ship as well. This requires you to correctly hack the security. If you can hack the security, you have two options. Take the ship as your own, damage and all, or send the ship back to your home base. If you take the ship as your own, you original ship gets sent back to the home base. Wether this means that it dissapears and is suddenly "home", or if it flys off to the base by normal means is something I have decided yet, but I rather like the latter.
4. The chances of ship/cargo stealing are decided by the levels of the ship you're trying to capture, and the levels of your ship.* The higher the difference, the harder it is. The cargo "test" for fail/success is tested for each one you try.
* This may instead be decided by a variable something like "security" if the devs decide disabling is worth while, and they decide to use my version, or something similar.
5. Capturing your own ship is massivly easier then capturing someone elses. It would make sense, you know your own security. This means that if your in a group, and you get disabled, you might be able to get back to your ship, before someone boards it.
6. A ship is able to be boarded as long as it is disabled, hasn't attacked you, hasn't been destroyed, or hasn't been captured.
The possiblity of using specific weapons to disable ships is something to be invesigated, as is the "running light damage" as I call it, which is the hardware/software performance drop.
1. When a ship is disabled, it acts like the char has been killed. He/she is sent back to their home station as if it is gone.
2. The cargo/equipment is left intact, and has a chance of being stolen by a passerby. There is also a chance that you run into the ships defence systems, which deal damage to the boarder. This could mean kill, this could mean just damage, or this could mean that the ship is suddenly controlled by a bot, and begins to attack you. Same hull damage of course.
3. You can capture the ship as well. This requires you to correctly hack the security. If you can hack the security, you have two options. Take the ship as your own, damage and all, or send the ship back to your home base. If you take the ship as your own, you original ship gets sent back to the home base. Wether this means that it dissapears and is suddenly "home", or if it flys off to the base by normal means is something I have decided yet, but I rather like the latter.
4. The chances of ship/cargo stealing are decided by the levels of the ship you're trying to capture, and the levels of your ship.* The higher the difference, the harder it is. The cargo "test" for fail/success is tested for each one you try.
* This may instead be decided by a variable something like "security" if the devs decide disabling is worth while, and they decide to use my version, or something similar.
5. Capturing your own ship is massivly easier then capturing someone elses. It would make sense, you know your own security. This means that if your in a group, and you get disabled, you might be able to get back to your ship, before someone boards it.
6. A ship is able to be boarded as long as it is disabled, hasn't attacked you, hasn't been destroyed, or hasn't been captured.
The possiblity of using specific weapons to disable ships is something to be invesigated, as is the "running light damage" as I call it, which is the hardware/software performance drop.