Forums » Suggestions
[Resource Device] Ion Collector
Diversifying the gathering tool kit with a specialised direction concept :
When reviewing Trade goods and weapons, there are a lot of Ion devices available. It comes to mind eventually an entrepreneurial type should come up with a device to collect Ion particles and associated gases via the freely available, though less predictable Ion Storms.
The application of such a device seems plausible by reversing the manner in which a Repair Gun operates, though offering a limited 'lifespan' which inhibits just sitting in Ion Storms and gathering ad infinitum.
[Use of an Ion Collector]
Place in a Large Slot - Seek out an Ion storm.
Flying through the storm, hold down the associated fire key, and "Charge" the collector. At this point it gathers 30 - 50cu of energy and then needs to be deactivated (safety).
The 'Bottled Lightening' as it were, could accrue a similar value region as Semi-Rare Ore. Being from usually hostile Bot space and the randomness of the storms. Also, pirates know folk may be in said storms, so go hunting. Additionally, it forces traders to keep storage spare "Just In Case" they run into a storm, so there is a trade off.
This offers a curious silver lining to dropping out in a Storm, and also an avenue to introducing another Manufacture mission Ion product theme.
Feedback?
- T.
When reviewing Trade goods and weapons, there are a lot of Ion devices available. It comes to mind eventually an entrepreneurial type should come up with a device to collect Ion particles and associated gases via the freely available, though less predictable Ion Storms.
The application of such a device seems plausible by reversing the manner in which a Repair Gun operates, though offering a limited 'lifespan' which inhibits just sitting in Ion Storms and gathering ad infinitum.
[Use of an Ion Collector]
Place in a Large Slot - Seek out an Ion storm.
Flying through the storm, hold down the associated fire key, and "Charge" the collector. At this point it gathers 30 - 50cu of energy and then needs to be deactivated (safety).
The 'Bottled Lightening' as it were, could accrue a similar value region as Semi-Rare Ore. Being from usually hostile Bot space and the randomness of the storms. Also, pirates know folk may be in said storms, so go hunting. Additionally, it forces traders to keep storage spare "Just In Case" they run into a storm, so there is a trade off.
This offers a curious silver lining to dropping out in a Storm, and also an avenue to introducing another Manufacture mission Ion product theme.
Feedback?
- T.
I think that's a very unique idea.
However, here's the problem:
When you mine, about 50 cu of mining with one beam will take at least thrice, maybe four times as long as the 25 seconds requires for one ion collector to gather it. Therein, the prices would need to be modified accordingly (so that the motivation for mining is not lost), and the Ions you gather should not be worth too much. You did say that it should be worth the value of a semi-rare ore, which seems appropriate, but you can guess already that many people will complain furiously whether or not it is really necessary.
Also, there isn't the issue of 'heat' as there is with a roid; your supply is infinite, and that may be a problem.
That is fairly easy to deal with, and the gun does not seem too complicated to make (conditions for firing are that you are in an Ion storm, no target required, produces Ion that goes directly to your cargo).
I'm confused about whether it takes any energy up, I did assume that the 2/sec charge rate meant you accrue 2 Ions per second, if I'm wrong about that then please correct me or make it clearer. Also, I think the license requirements could be a bit higher (3/3/3/6/6, if you ask me).
Very shiny, good luck.
However, here's the problem:
When you mine, about 50 cu of mining with one beam will take at least thrice, maybe four times as long as the 25 seconds requires for one ion collector to gather it. Therein, the prices would need to be modified accordingly (so that the motivation for mining is not lost), and the Ions you gather should not be worth too much. You did say that it should be worth the value of a semi-rare ore, which seems appropriate, but you can guess already that many people will complain furiously whether or not it is really necessary.
Also, there isn't the issue of 'heat' as there is with a roid; your supply is infinite, and that may be a problem.
That is fairly easy to deal with, and the gun does not seem too complicated to make (conditions for firing are that you are in an Ion storm, no target required, produces Ion that goes directly to your cargo).
I'm confused about whether it takes any energy up, I did assume that the 2/sec charge rate meant you accrue 2 Ions per second, if I'm wrong about that then please correct me or make it clearer. Also, I think the license requirements could be a bit higher (3/3/3/6/6, if you ask me).
Very shiny, good luck.
I like it. Opens up some interesting gameplay...
Storms should be able to be entirely collected with these things. The larger the storm, the more trips it would take.
Let's base it off of jump-in to exit distances, or whatever..
<1000m would take up only 1 50cu load and the storm would go away.
>1000m would take up 2-3 50cu loads
>2000m...
And so on. Being able to clear out ion storms with a PAYOUT would be very interesting for in-game activities (SPACE CLEANERS! WOHOO)
Storms should be able to be entirely collected with these things. The larger the storm, the more trips it would take.
Let's base it off of jump-in to exit distances, or whatever..
<1000m would take up only 1 50cu load and the storm would go away.
>1000m would take up 2-3 50cu loads
>2000m...
And so on. Being able to clear out ion storms with a PAYOUT would be very interesting for in-game activities (SPACE CLEANERS! WOHOO)
You should not be able to use the collector while in turbo. I propose the simplest way to prevent turboing would be to have the collector fully deplete your battery and keep the charge zero while in use. This would also prevent usage of energy weapons while collecting, which I also see as a plus.
meridian: Yes, and mining beams should do that too, though at least with mining beams you're tied to a rock.
Hi Guys,
Thanks for your feedback, good points on usage and limitations. Mostly I am trying to zero in on how best to present this device.
The "Numbers" suggested are pretty broad and open to rounding by veteran gamers whom understand the mechanics more precisely, they certainly are not concrete. The core intention is to nut out the concept, then explore the implementation such as the Death's comment on the 50cu..
Which in retrospect, is a very good point. So quite reasonably, the Collector should only gather about 15 - 20cu per "Charging" ?
The Licence rating is something to be explored further;
-/-/-/6/6
These strike as solid levels certainly. The omission of the Combat/Light/Heavy is open to debate. A rating in Heavy may be more appropriate, due to the scale of the device, though a Combat rating seems off-key. Who needs combat skills to fly in a straight line? ;)
Also the comment on "Heat" is something already addressed and may have been overlooked. The suggestion was for the Ion Collector to become over charged and render it useless, not unlike an Asteroid being cooked. So in a sense, the more you use it, the longer until the Collector can absorb another "Ion Charge" (My imagination sees the gathering mesh becoming super-heated)
Having these clear out an Ion Storm is too extreme. Mostly, this is to take advantage of an otherwise annoying, and limited phenomena, but also encourage storm chasing and a bit of risk doing so if 'Bots are about. (I'm reiterating myself here).
Meridian has a good idea about the non-turbo element. Possibly... As the Collector "Charges", the usage directly drains your battery (Like a Repair Gun). So in essence, this idea could also part limit the continued usage of the Collector. So a Storm dive would take 2 - 3 Collections during your run to finally over charge the device?
In aside, my personal thoughts on mining beams are that they need not attack battery usage, I'd assume power management systems account for the power drain as per your Grid Net. So their slow, continual melting of rock is all accounted for energy wise :)
Thanks for your thoughts so far,
- T.
Thanks for your feedback, good points on usage and limitations. Mostly I am trying to zero in on how best to present this device.
The "Numbers" suggested are pretty broad and open to rounding by veteran gamers whom understand the mechanics more precisely, they certainly are not concrete. The core intention is to nut out the concept, then explore the implementation such as the Death's comment on the 50cu..
Which in retrospect, is a very good point. So quite reasonably, the Collector should only gather about 15 - 20cu per "Charging" ?
The Licence rating is something to be explored further;
-/-/-/6/6
These strike as solid levels certainly. The omission of the Combat/Light/Heavy is open to debate. A rating in Heavy may be more appropriate, due to the scale of the device, though a Combat rating seems off-key. Who needs combat skills to fly in a straight line? ;)
Also the comment on "Heat" is something already addressed and may have been overlooked. The suggestion was for the Ion Collector to become over charged and render it useless, not unlike an Asteroid being cooked. So in a sense, the more you use it, the longer until the Collector can absorb another "Ion Charge" (My imagination sees the gathering mesh becoming super-heated)
Having these clear out an Ion Storm is too extreme. Mostly, this is to take advantage of an otherwise annoying, and limited phenomena, but also encourage storm chasing and a bit of risk doing so if 'Bots are about. (I'm reiterating myself here).
Meridian has a good idea about the non-turbo element. Possibly... As the Collector "Charges", the usage directly drains your battery (Like a Repair Gun). So in essence, this idea could also part limit the continued usage of the Collector. So a Storm dive would take 2 - 3 Collections during your run to finally over charge the device?
In aside, my personal thoughts on mining beams are that they need not attack battery usage, I'd assume power management systems account for the power drain as per your Grid Net. So their slow, continual melting of rock is all accounted for energy wise :)
Thanks for your thoughts so far,
- T.
The ion collector uses 50 energy per second of use, but otherwise has unlimited use.
You must also carry "empty ion bottles" at 1cu each, which will be converted to "filled ion bottle" one at a time, with the rate of conversion based on the type of collector.
each ion bottle has mass about the same as a semi rare ore.
empty ion bottles are not cheap. filled ion bottles sell for more.
a small radar extender, large radar extender, mineral scanner, mining beam(s) will improve collection rate, collectively, with the rate of collection improvement dependent on the specs of the equipment.
ion collectors in use tend to emit a lot of em, including a very bright light, and are extremely visible on radar.
You must also carry "empty ion bottles" at 1cu each, which will be converted to "filled ion bottle" one at a time, with the rate of conversion based on the type of collector.
each ion bottle has mass about the same as a semi rare ore.
empty ion bottles are not cheap. filled ion bottles sell for more.
a small radar extender, large radar extender, mineral scanner, mining beam(s) will improve collection rate, collectively, with the rate of collection improvement dependent on the specs of the equipment.
ion collectors in use tend to emit a lot of em, including a very bright light, and are extremely visible on radar.
Alright, @Roda:
1: Is your comment a command, a question, a clarification, a suggestion, or an insult?
2: We don't buy crates before mining in which to place our ore, though we clearly put it in crates. Let's just do the same with Ions... why make it overly complicated? EDIT: Lol, looking at this twice it sounds like a dev-ishly lazy excuse to not put in everything possible.
3: What do the mineral scanner and mining beam have anything to do with collection rate? I think your idea with the radar extenders is valid, but the mining tech doesn't have anything to do with Ions.
4: I like the last idea, you should be clearly noticeable (past even the natural 500m radar in a storm) if you are using it in a storm.
5: I think you can go even further with the 50 energy/sec, if you say 60/sec then you can guarantee they'll have to take some time with the Ions and with taking them home.
So yeah, I agree with the first and last part of your comment, half of the 5th, and none of the others.
1: Is your comment a command, a question, a clarification, a suggestion, or an insult?
2: We don't buy crates before mining in which to place our ore, though we clearly put it in crates. Let's just do the same with Ions... why make it overly complicated? EDIT: Lol, looking at this twice it sounds like a dev-ishly lazy excuse to not put in everything possible.
3: What do the mineral scanner and mining beam have anything to do with collection rate? I think your idea with the radar extenders is valid, but the mining tech doesn't have anything to do with Ions.
4: I like the last idea, you should be clearly noticeable (past even the natural 500m radar in a storm) if you are using it in a storm.
5: I think you can go even further with the 50 energy/sec, if you say 60/sec then you can guarantee they'll have to take some time with the Ions and with taking them home.
So yeah, I agree with the first and last part of your comment, half of the 5th, and none of the others.
Requiring mining 6 seems a bit extreme. There are plenty of people who have no interest in mining, so why make them do a bunch of mining just to be able to use the ion collector, especially if ions will be used for the manufacture of rare weapons. Ion collecting would require less skill than mining anyway. I could see having a low-level ion collector with poor rates, and then having a better collector that requires mining 6.
I like Roda's suggestion to have the collector emit a bright light. I think visibility up to say 3000m or 5000m would be appropriate. I can see making them detectable on radar for an additional 1000m or so to ensure you don't lose a target lock while engaging them, but I assume once you attack they'd shut off the collector anyway, making extended radar detectability not so necessary.
A possible exploit I foresee is that there isn't a mechanism to prevent someone from traveling 1,000,000m away from the center of the storm sector and collecting ions to their heart's content where no one would find them. A possible remedy would be to make the collector less effective the farther from the center of the sector you go. The problem with that is that once you get too far out there is no good way to determine which direction to go to get back to the center again (apart from jumping out and back in, that is).
Alternatively you could make collecting most effective near the jump point, except that doesn't make much sense logically since that is supposedly the weakest part of the storm.
I like Roda's suggestion to have the collector emit a bright light. I think visibility up to say 3000m or 5000m would be appropriate. I can see making them detectable on radar for an additional 1000m or so to ensure you don't lose a target lock while engaging them, but I assume once you attack they'd shut off the collector anyway, making extended radar detectability not so necessary.
A possible exploit I foresee is that there isn't a mechanism to prevent someone from traveling 1,000,000m away from the center of the storm sector and collecting ions to their heart's content where no one would find them. A possible remedy would be to make the collector less effective the farther from the center of the sector you go. The problem with that is that once you get too far out there is no good way to determine which direction to go to get back to the center again (apart from jumping out and back in, that is).
Alternatively you could make collecting most effective near the jump point, except that doesn't make much sense logically since that is supposedly the weakest part of the storm.
Death Jr:
it is a suggestion.
ore is already a solid, ions are not.
mining beams didn't have anything to do with anything, i just wanted an excuse to throw more equipment in. but then meridian came to my rescue...
50 or 60 or whatever. by having serious energy draw you can drop the issue of using turbo or weapons etc while collecting.
meridian:
Thank you pointing out that you should be in a specific area to collect ions. i now suggest that because ion storms are caused by roids, that you need to be within a specific distance of a roid. this would also help explain the mining levels and the benefits of mining equipment. ions can only be collected at roids, one roid at a time, and it heats the roids up, in addition to any mining activity.
it is a suggestion.
ore is already a solid, ions are not.
mining beams didn't have anything to do with anything, i just wanted an excuse to throw more equipment in. but then meridian came to my rescue...
50 or 60 or whatever. by having serious energy draw you can drop the issue of using turbo or weapons etc while collecting.
meridian:
Thank you pointing out that you should be in a specific area to collect ions. i now suggest that because ion storms are caused by roids, that you need to be within a specific distance of a roid. this would also help explain the mining levels and the benefits of mining equipment. ions can only be collected at roids, one roid at a time, and it heats the roids up, in addition to any mining activity.
Cool, some good feedback there. I'm going to merge several ideas into one and suggest a Reload idea based upon the idea of "buying crates":
Keep this device as simple as buying a Mining Beam. No one like to fuss.
- Buy It.
- Plug it In.
- Find Storm (or it finds you).
- Hold down Fire to charge an Ion Bottle as you pass through storm.
Falling in line with the grades of Mining Beams, 2 types is a good base. An Entry Level and then an Advanced Level device.
------------
Suggestions :
The Heavy Weapon License being required for the Heavy Slot usage.
Basic Ion Collector
An inefficient but durable device, suited to collecting Ions and associated gases.
-/-/1/3/3
Advanced Ion Collector
More focussed and carefully engineered remake of the original Ion Collector design. Very well suited to collecting Ions and associated gases.
-/-/2/5/5
------------
[New Version] Proposed Implementation :
A Heavy Slot Device that is RELOADED. (With Empty Ion Bottles in the fiction)
Activated like an Afterburner, draining Battery.
Each full 'Charge' produces a single Ion Bottle.
30sec Charge Period. (Basic Device) @ 10 Bottles
20sec Charge Period (Advanced Device) @ 20 Bottles
Charged bottles added to Cargo. Sells at Manufacturing Stations very well.
(NEED A PRICE PER BOTTLE). Also, tie in the Basic Ion Collector as a Manufacturing mission giveaway.
The limitations are Danger. Random Storms. "Bottle" reloads.
Why bother?
The goal of this new Device is in offering a silver lining to being caught within an Ion Storm. Much like players utilise Radar Extenders to aid getting out, the Ion Collector actually offers a way to profit from your unexpected 'detour'. There are many "Just in Case" devices, this one actually makes profit from a temporary problem.
The shortened Charge times reflect the Mining Beam extraction progress bar more closely and in play terms, makes the time investment more attractive. On considering the previous full minute charge time, really.. it is overly long. (Possibly followed the Repair Device inspiration too closely)
Abusing the Device
If you are willing to arm two of these, and dive into a Dangerous storm and cruise along at running speed charging the Bottles without defenses. Then you deserve the profit for ducking back and forth to store/reload bottles.
But mostly, this is a device aimed at finding benefit from a usually all round bad circumstance.
I'll put some graphics together so we can visualize the implementation and steer the course of the concept discussion in a more focussed manner before ideas become too disparate. :)
best,
- Taele.
Keep this device as simple as buying a Mining Beam. No one like to fuss.
- Buy It.
- Plug it In.
- Find Storm (or it finds you).
- Hold down Fire to charge an Ion Bottle as you pass through storm.
Falling in line with the grades of Mining Beams, 2 types is a good base. An Entry Level and then an Advanced Level device.
------------
Suggestions :
The Heavy Weapon License being required for the Heavy Slot usage.
Basic Ion Collector
An inefficient but durable device, suited to collecting Ions and associated gases.
-/-/1/3/3
Advanced Ion Collector
More focussed and carefully engineered remake of the original Ion Collector design. Very well suited to collecting Ions and associated gases.
-/-/2/5/5
------------
[New Version] Proposed Implementation :
A Heavy Slot Device that is RELOADED. (With Empty Ion Bottles in the fiction)
Activated like an Afterburner, draining Battery.
Each full 'Charge' produces a single Ion Bottle.
30sec Charge Period. (Basic Device) @ 10 Bottles
20sec Charge Period (Advanced Device) @ 20 Bottles
Charged bottles added to Cargo. Sells at Manufacturing Stations very well.
(NEED A PRICE PER BOTTLE). Also, tie in the Basic Ion Collector as a Manufacturing mission giveaway.
The limitations are Danger. Random Storms. "Bottle" reloads.
Why bother?
The goal of this new Device is in offering a silver lining to being caught within an Ion Storm. Much like players utilise Radar Extenders to aid getting out, the Ion Collector actually offers a way to profit from your unexpected 'detour'. There are many "Just in Case" devices, this one actually makes profit from a temporary problem.
The shortened Charge times reflect the Mining Beam extraction progress bar more closely and in play terms, makes the time investment more attractive. On considering the previous full minute charge time, really.. it is overly long. (Possibly followed the Repair Device inspiration too closely)
Abusing the Device
If you are willing to arm two of these, and dive into a Dangerous storm and cruise along at running speed charging the Bottles without defenses. Then you deserve the profit for ducking back and forth to store/reload bottles.
But mostly, this is a device aimed at finding benefit from a usually all round bad circumstance.
I'll put some graphics together so we can visualize the implementation and steer the course of the concept discussion in a more focussed manner before ideas become too disparate. :)
best,
- Taele.
I guess my suggestion was more of a new type of mining. Not a "something you do on the way through an ion storm".
I said each bottle was 1 cu, so the limit of how many bottles you could convert per trip would be based on the size of your cargo hold.
The price of the empty bottles would be about half the sell price of full bottles. This means that getting pirated on your way to mine ions is still significant loot for the pirate.
Collection time should be perhaps slightly longer than mining a high end ore. The device could work almost exactly like a mining beam, requiring proximity to a roid, heating the roid, suffering extraction penalties according to the heat of the roid, generating any other effects normally associated with mining, etc. You could even go so far as to make the ore type of the ore effect the ion rate, or even make multiple qualities of ion (helios ions anyone?). All in all it could be made to be a major extension of mining.
This is all a far cry from the idea of something you just do on your way through a storm. Which is an idea I am almost completely opposed to. The thing to do on your way through a storm is pick up all the loot from the voys that have been smashed by hive. traders with full holds should just plain avoid ion storms. they are trading. the two large ports on a moth are like an extra 2cu. find a heavy weapon that sells well at your destination and fill the two ports with that.
I said each bottle was 1 cu, so the limit of how many bottles you could convert per trip would be based on the size of your cargo hold.
The price of the empty bottles would be about half the sell price of full bottles. This means that getting pirated on your way to mine ions is still significant loot for the pirate.
Collection time should be perhaps slightly longer than mining a high end ore. The device could work almost exactly like a mining beam, requiring proximity to a roid, heating the roid, suffering extraction penalties according to the heat of the roid, generating any other effects normally associated with mining, etc. You could even go so far as to make the ore type of the ore effect the ion rate, or even make multiple qualities of ion (helios ions anyone?). All in all it could be made to be a major extension of mining.
This is all a far cry from the idea of something you just do on your way through a storm. Which is an idea I am almost completely opposed to. The thing to do on your way through a storm is pick up all the loot from the voys that have been smashed by hive. traders with full holds should just plain avoid ion storms. they are trading. the two large ports on a moth are like an extra 2cu. find a heavy weapon that sells well at your destination and fill the two ports with that.
Mmm.. okay I see where you're coming from Roda.
I just want to clarify, when you suggest 'To Mine' within storms, are you referring to the game mechanic, or actual mining of Asteroids in Ion Storms?
As for effects and limitations.. "Heating of a Roid" can be akin to the device being 'Over Charged'.
My only concern with purchasing bottles like a Commodity, then 'Filling' them... would be if there is a standing precedent already within the game? (Which in turn makes for easier implementation)
In utterly separate commentary.. your suggestion of filling Heavy Slots for trade.. (facepalm).. how utterly obvious and smart business, cheers! I think I'll be doing more of that in future.
- Taele.
I just want to clarify, when you suggest 'To Mine' within storms, are you referring to the game mechanic, or actual mining of Asteroids in Ion Storms?
As for effects and limitations.. "Heating of a Roid" can be akin to the device being 'Over Charged'.
My only concern with purchasing bottles like a Commodity, then 'Filling' them... would be if there is a standing precedent already within the game? (Which in turn makes for easier implementation)
In utterly separate commentary.. your suggestion of filling Heavy Slots for trade.. (facepalm).. how utterly obvious and smart business, cheers! I think I'll be doing more of that in future.
- Taele.
It would be almost exactly like mining asteroids in a storm. The main difference would be that instead of gaining ore, you gain ions, and you have to use your new collector device, and some of the other effects we have discussed like the bright light and ion bottles. But it would mostly be like mining roids, moving from one roid to the next as each one overheats.
I don't like the idea of having to stay near roids, otherwise you might as well not bother with 'Ions' and just introduce a new type of Ore only found in storms.
as meridian was so wise as to point out: you don't want your ion miner to wander out 100k from the jump point. no pirate would ever be able to find them. tie them to the roid, the jump point, or something, so they can't wander out to deep space and still collect ions.
Wouldn't their hold fill up before they could make any large profit?
Okay.. I'll have to disagree Roda :)
The idea of the Collector is for the user to fly through the storm, "Trawling for Ions" as it were. They can do it as a pass thru on their way out, or intentional travel through storms collecting.
However, forcing folks to seek out Asteroids within a storm is simply returning to Mining proper and not introducing a new avenue of resource gathering.
Let alone the effort of finding Asteroids in a storm :D
For now, to introduce a new Gathering device; flying through a Storm is the collection method via charging Bottles as you travel. No physical mining of Asteroids.
But definitely keep the concept similar in simplicity to that of Beam Mining and Missile Reloading (should the idea of buying new bottles as a reload work)
If this finds a niche as a side benefit in storms, or a credible resource avenue, would largely be up to the Developers implementation if they enjoy this concept.
- Taele.
The idea of the Collector is for the user to fly through the storm, "Trawling for Ions" as it were. They can do it as a pass thru on their way out, or intentional travel through storms collecting.
However, forcing folks to seek out Asteroids within a storm is simply returning to Mining proper and not introducing a new avenue of resource gathering.
Let alone the effort of finding Asteroids in a storm :D
For now, to introduce a new Gathering device; flying through a Storm is the collection method via charging Bottles as you travel. No physical mining of Asteroids.
But definitely keep the concept similar in simplicity to that of Beam Mining and Missile Reloading (should the idea of buying new bottles as a reload work)
If this finds a niche as a side benefit in storms, or a credible resource avenue, would largely be up to the Developers implementation if they enjoy this concept.
- Taele.