There is no way a convoy needs a payed escort unless it is going somewhere unsafe. Don't tell me that ion storms are a threat to convoy's as we all know ion storms are a waste of space. Maybe help maybe make grey space fun again by only sending escort missions _to_ a grey space location?

I mean c'mon, people are farming not just cash but xp too by flying escort missions in XC's loaded with cargo - in what is now safe space - and they aint even staying with the convoy, they avoid storms, so do not bring up storms as an argument.

The reason escorts are needed in nation space, is because of Ion storms. Many of the hive sectors pose a significant risk to the safety of the transports.

Seriously, you have a reasonable point. This is a good idea for Itani and Serco convoys. I don't really think its needed in UIT space since any non UIT voy is an easy target. That is if your purpose is hunting voys. If the goal is to get more players into Grey, I think your better off making the better proc missions run through Grey space instead.

At least have more from-nation-to-grey escort options. Right now there are very few from Itani or Serco space.

As far as I know Atice, there are none from Serco or Itani space, and only a few into them. I would mark this as necessary. I would also like to see Serco <-> UIT and Itani <-> UIT runs as well.

However, we still need to have escorts in place in nation space to ensure the safety of transports if they have the misfortune of hitting an ion storm with hostile hive.

When there are no more XC's escorting ships in Dau then there will be no more traders. Crippling the traders will only result in their leaving VO.

I agree with your sentiment Pa. I don't have time for a lengthy sermon about reward => (effort + risk) atm. I do think your going to catch a lot of flack for your first sentence though, because I'm not sure I fully understand what your intending.

I will say this, the true problem isn't that traders are hiding in UIT space or any other. Its simply that there just aren't enough players period. The weekday average seems to be currently around 20-30 players less bots, and 40-50 at the highpoint on the weekend. Presumably the march towards 2.0 is addressing the reasons so many new players leave within a week to a couple of months. I was a bit surprised that we peaked during last Decembers promotion at only a bit over 100 players, I'm sure we still have a few, but most have moved on. Hopefully the devs got a decent financial boost as people subbed to give the game a try past the extended demo.

Something about VO just does not yet have the ability to capture peoples imagination to the point that they stick around and more, encourage their friends and friends friends to play. TBH, I don't believe the problem is the community, because I've seen the community bend over backwards to be helpful to new players and also go out of their way to be absolute ass holes to new players with negligible results. I'm not saying this to be negative because as far as I'm concerned this is the best game out there for the type of mmorpg I want to play. Show me something else that has a linux platform and is twitch based without being just a fps and I'd love to check it out.

And as far as that goes, I'd rather have a low population and a monthly fee than one of those 'free' games where to actually be competitive you have to buy the good stuff, because I would be so gone.

I dunno, I think that we should assign relative "danger" to convoys dynamically, and let the station AI control when it thinks it needs escorts, and when it does not. This would be tied into the entire new economy and new faction thing that the devs have been working on. Let me explain, the process for doing so might go like this:

1. Eliminate all convoy escorts from all convoys galaxy-wide for a short testing period, a month maybe.
2. Keep track of which convoys come under fire, their goods, their starting points and their destinations.
3. Over a period of, oh, say, a month, track this data.
4. Add in some kind of "danger" quotient to the trips that can be modified as time goes on. (Say, a shipment of water from Itan to Eo might have zero danger quotient, would require NO escorts, and no escort missions to players would be offered. Conversely, a shipment of LuxGoods from Dau to Odia might have a "100" danger quotient, would take as many player escorts as could be hired, plus they might send along a teradon just in case.)
5. Continually update the "danger" quotient based on daily shipping/trading records. Multiply a standard escort reward based on the danger quotient and the skill of the player.

When there are no more XC's escorting ships in Dau then there will be no more traders.

How insanely stupid is that statement? By definition, you cannot escort in an XC: it has no weapon ports. This is stupid whining: "Wahhh! If you make us go out and have to work with and against other players by having to trade outside nation space, we'll quit!!"

I don't think the answer is to make all the traders go to the pirates, I think the pirates should be going after the traders. Make safe space a little less 'safe', and maybe pirates would stop whining and actually attack in so call 'safe' areas.

If you draw everyone to grey space then the pirates can just sit and wait for people to turn up. there are only a few choke-points in/out of grey, so that can just sit in wormhole systems and wait for the money to come to them.

If you make it easier for them to come into nation territory, then at least it is a wide area and they still need to actively search for voys and traders. Just leave capital systems (or even just stations) well guarded.

Or... If we're looking for changes that can be made quickly... Why not just design another type of escort mission? The current ones tend to go AROUND greyspace, taking a longer route if they can do it.

We could instead shift over to the PCC and test out some new missions revolving around escorts. These could be escort missions that have to be completed fast, and as such, they will not avoid greyspace. Heck, we could even put in some RP reason to have them travel in greyspace MORE (less traffic).

Then, we could lower the pay on the first missions, and up the pay on the new ones.
Bang, we have the old escorts, used for a safe hitch, and the new ones, which should actually BE faster, and give a higher payoff, but go through greyspace and key sectors (B8?) most of the time.

I'm actually sick of all the action being in B-8 and nowhere else, I need space to hunt.

Anyways, I say just make money harder to get in nation space. The defenses are put in place to defend newbs and newbies actually don't need that much money. When players move on to the higher end ships then they need to get out of nation space to pay for it. Simple as that.

Attacking the traders is only going to have the opposite effect from what you want. There will be fewer traders everywhere including grey. If you really want trader traffic in grey to increase then you need to make VO more appealing to them.

Its ok Lecter. The concept was to hard for a lawyer. Theres no shame in your failure.

The concept was to hard for a lawyer.

And apparently the basic precepts of the English language are too hard for whatever GED-requiring task you perform in life.

But let's recap:

(1) Traders are in Nation Space because it's currently too easy to pirate (see how that whole "too/to" thing works?) them in Grey Space;
(2) Traders, if forced to leave Nation Space by making it very unprofitable to trade/escort there, will not go to Grey Space were opportunity abounds, but will instead quit VO -- because pirates are just that damn scary;
(3) And don't even think about coming into Nation Space and hunting traders there, otherwise the traders will (I'm sensing a theme here) quit VO.

So, PaK, your only solution is what? Does make VO more appealing to traders mean "make it impossible to pirate people who are conducting highly lucrative activities in expensive and very vulnerable ships"?

I hate when these pansy make the game interesting for boring riskless fools convos start

I dont know if you super fluffy traders are paying attention but the game is called

Here it comes

*drumroll*

Wait for it!

*fireworks*

VEN *BOOM*
DET *FLASH BOOM CRACKLE*
TA *FLASH BOOM CRACKLE WHISTLE NOISE*

*end fireworks*

Online.

You are supposed to be at risk all the time and be getting killed or killing.

The rewards should be greater the higher the risk, NOT greater inside a military protected nation where everyone can sip tea and activate their turbo aliases so they can simultaneously play nintendogs on their DS while trading with no fears whatsoever and barely ever actually looking at their screens!

Is it just me or is this whole trader vs pirate thing getting old? Same old complaints and whining from both sides.

And because I can't resist eliciting a Lecter waggle... Make VO fun or traders will quit. Crushing profit in nation space isn't going to drive the traders into Grey. Make Grey truly more profitable and greed will do the job just fine. Try to force traders into Grey and they'll quit VO.

Edit: CrazySpence, you are describing a FPS not an RPG. Why would I knowingly log on day after day to play a role that does nothing more than provide either an income or a target for another player? Should there always be a measure of risk? Absolutely. Should playing a role I enjoy mandate that I knowingly fly my defenseless ship through multiple bottlenecks where enemies can just sit and demand credits? I'm going to go with no on this one. Am I going to pay the pirate thats done the work or had the good fortune to find me when I'm in a weak position? Sure. Its all part of the rp. I am not however, going to play that role when that is my only purpose.

Next I don't know what your talking about with "I hate when these pansy make the game interesting for boring riskless fools convos start". There was a good discussion going about changing Voys to encourage more folk into Grey. And while I agree with the sentiments of PaKettle, I think he phrased it poorly and derailed the discussion.

Finally ShankTank, I feel your frustration. Sadly my suggestion of changing / moving / adding stations and station types in Grey was booed down. So that means that Sedina, Odia, Bractus, Pelatus and Edras all in particular are poor places to actively trade for any length of time. The rest of the systems are only marginally better, and currently no better than nation space.

sell tridents in grey. that'll do it

I just hope Lecter is not this easy to provoke in court....

Last time I checked convoys to Grey do pay a lot more then ones that stay in nation space - But it didnt work did it? Traffic through Grey did not increase did it?

Can anyone here say RPG? Yes it is Vendetta Online and NOT pirates Online. I mine and trade.... Get over it.

I take voys from Azek m4 to Pelatus and almost never run into pirates it makes me sad

Why would I knowingly log on day after day to play a role that does nothing more than provide either an income or a target for another player?

Because (a) there's not so many of the other players that you run into them that often, (b) if you agree to reasonable rates, you get to make lots of profits even though you do run into pirates, and (c) if you don't agree to reasonable rates upon running into pirates, you lose your ship and the investment in your cargo.

The choice is yours -- we surely don't want to stop you from trading and mining -- but there's no reason other players should log on day after day to just to fly around in an armed interceptor and ignore your running about making money in a defenseless barge.

In a nutshell, PaK, you're asking to be protected from the otherwise natural interaction with other players: let us make lots and lots of credits, but don't let anyone interfere with that activity. You'll notice pirates are asking for a game dynamic that forces players into the same space where interaction can occur... we're not asking to dictate the terms of those interactions. You, however, are. That's not how life works, and that's not how VO works.

If pirates were saying "MOAR TRADERZ!" and "by the way, we're going to charge waayy more for passage than these guys could hope to make," I'd say you have a point in refusing to play ball. That's not what happens, though: we routinely ask for far less than the value of the ship, much less the ship and cargo -- and we usually leave people alone, sometimes a whole fucking guild of us, for a whole playing session during which a trader can make tens of millions of credits... in exchange for that one measly payment. In return for this sort of rational offer, we get lectured about how credits are free in VO and how (contradictorily) you'll never pay a pirate on principle.

The pirate's version that attitude of 'I don't like how you play the game so I'll refuse to interact with you' is to never let a trader conduct his business in exchange for a rational price, instead killing him on sight 100% of the time. That's how pirates refuse to play ball and you guys are increasingly seeing that from us -- amusingly, you whine about that and rant more about how you'll never pay a pirate.

So be it: http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/7/22173

w00t