Regardless of economic balance, someone will always be rich enough to do this sort of thing.

Regardless of hired guards, someone will still be able to fly in and blow away a bunch of people who are fighting at 1% health. That's the crux of the issue.

Older VO players surely remember the time when SKV had its "military manouvers in Ukari".
It was a RP event (war with Serco SCAR guild) going on for weeks.
We made some players pretty mad, mostly traders who were forced to stop at our blockade for cargo inspection, but at the end everyone joined on the RPing and the whole community had a lot of fun while it lasted. RP stories that accompanied that event were among the best ever.
We did actually disrupt playability of that system/sector in a way but no innocent bystanders were harmed in any way.
There is only one thing you have to remember when planning a RP war and that is - "play nice". And we did just that. Both warring parties had great fun and even traders had their share of fun by playing "blockade runners". It was a real RP event. and nobody was harassed.

Okay so this is where I am seeing a difference. Part of the trouble is that this is a player run event. Okay that is where I was arguing from. But incarnate brings up a good point about NW versus other player events. It involves death and fighting. And a few points in hull damage can make a big difference. I disagree with all the super / godly measures for the idea of general player events which is why I have been saying the different points for player defense. But I do have to say that Nation Wars does have some exceptions for the other arguments. And PaKettle's suggestion is similar to earlier ones regarding "instanced" sectors. Just more structured for this specific event.

Part of this issue is are we now defining NW as a game event, at least partially, versus a player event. It does have some points to it in this case. It has been going on for a long time, and to most people is considered a game event versus a player event.

That actually is what is causing everyone's hackles to rise I think is that it is considered a game event. And in that respect maybe it should get some special treatment.

But putting that same treatment to all player event is what I guess I am actually disagreeing with.

Bojan, your example, while quaint indeed (weirdly, it doesn't seem that long ago to me), is not very persuasive.

Let's alter the recent actions of peypey and whateverhisnoobis, just a bit. They've declared war on TGFT and, while recognizing that the NW is not really a TGFT sponsored event (even though they make sure to state in every RP forum NW post that TGFT helps sponsor it), they announce their intention to attack TGFT pilots whenever and wherever they find them.

So, come NW, they go after Ecka. They respect the lag issues caused by swarms/l-mines and stick to NW approved weapons. But if killed, they return to keep attacking Ecka and any other TGFT pilot left alive.

Is that really different from SKV blowing up a TGFT trader who said "I've had enough with your fucking IT'S RP!!!11 crap, and I'm trading through the Ukari WH and not stoping for you; you guys have gone too far and are being jerks"? And don't say 'awww, we'd have relented and let him pass.' You didn't do that, nor should you have had to.

Following my post on whether NW is a game event versus a player event is some suggestions on how to proceed if it is considered a game event, working off of PaKettle and earlier statements regarding instances.

Use the race station in Sedina H-5 as a base. Players enter the station and register for Nation Wars. Once registered they can adjust their loadout/ship. Then when they leave station, they actually enter the NW sector. Leaving station into the NW sector can prohibited by numerous factors including loadout. Add to this any number of other factors you want such as voluntary donations for the pot and entrance fees.

PaKettle is spot on as for the only effect means for any viable player ran event. If it's a pure player event then it will be ripe for abuse and just begging to get hammered to hell and back. If we have some semi official event then no one would touch it. not with these checks in place. So far I have yet to hear from anyone who would be against checks like this but I have seen plenty of off topic posts.

The cancer that eats and VO is lack of entertainment, bickering among the users and when groups do get together to do events they always get ganked for some reason or another.

The solution is super simple and easy, A basic setup where event managers can register the event for a specific day for a specific time period, say 1-2 hours tops. Allow the event manager to set the parameters of the event (i.e. only x/y/z ships or weapons), allow the manager to control who to boot out in case of disturbances, abuse, trolls, etc and what not.

As for what limits the event manager could impose that's entirely depending upon the event, to put forth strong iron clad restriction on what the manager can't do would defeat the purpose. Quite simple to allow the manager to remove people from the event as they see fit. If the manager abuses things then that would be considered for future events by that manager.

Some events may need a death turret, others may need a group of station guards, others may need a group of hive bots. simply let the event manager(s) determine that up front.

Case in point. I get 6 death turrets in a circle in an empty sector, I conduct nation war in there. everyone not signed up for the event is watchers who has their weapons disabled and any member in the event who wanders outside the turret ring will be toast by the turrets and resigns from the event. No user would be able to interfere with what goes on inside the ring.

Another example, Obsidian's mineral scramble. Set up a cap ship and the first person to scan and mine X cu's of whatever ore wins the event, the roids could be dynamically spawned for the event and the ore would vanish after the event time period. from that you could even make up new ore types for the event, say mine frozen yogurt if you wanted to. After the event hours the yogurt turns to mush and falls through your ship into nothing.

Possibilities are endless.

You could have a wider range of events with a setup like this in place. it would cut down on the abuse and increase the entertainment values quite seriously. Under the current setup it is pure hell on the event managers to run events for any duration, very taxing, stressful and not that rewarding. All I am saying is we can do better.

Making it so you have to 'hire' anyone npc or player is just obscene and would be counter productive to any benefit.

Heh Lecter old boy... Ukari blockade was in 2006.
And you are right, we did not let traders with that kind of attitude you mentioned pass thru our blockade but we left them a free alternative way thru Helios.
Funny but none of TGFT members ever did something like that. They did threaten us with Vipers (hahaha) and even sent some Vipers as a scouting party to test our blockade but after that they turned to negotiations for free passage.
Good old times. :)

Regarding peypey and his wabbits war against TGFT... I agree, war is a war and anything goes but attacking them during traditional event like NW is not "playing nice" or can be justified by RPing.
NW usually lasts for 5-15 mins. There is plenty of time and opportunities to enjoy their little war outside of NW every day. Why ruin the only event that brings VO pvpers together on a weekly basis and has been going on for years?
Only thing they managed to accomplish is to make all NW participants and most of VO playerbase angry.
If that was their goal how would you classify that?

I see this as an issue of game balance. It isn't just that one party wants to hold an event and another party wants to disrupt it, but that the ability to do both is not supported by game mechanics in a balanced fashion. hawk should be allowed to raid, and tgft should be allowed to defend it, and we just need some minor tweeks to balance the defense. most of the ships are fairly well balanced with just a few problem children like the corvus hog and the valk. fit these ships back into a "rock, paper, scissors" relationship and test it and see where we stand.

(1) Why "fix" fast ships to protect one silly event?

(2) Your proposed "fix" wouldn't prevent a Hog II with a tube of swarms from goatfucking NW.

NW, unlike normal events, is a delicate critter.

bojansplash: I cannot argue for peytros, but myself was not aware of the ... ummm ... importance of Nation Wars. But one could say that the benefit of the attack is bring this discussion about.

As I stated I am actually a fairly new player, my play time is about a month total.

Roda Slane: that is part of the issue. But as I said I think the big issue is the importance of Nation War. It is such a long standing tradition that is considered in most people's mind as a game event versus a player event.

@Gulain
You sound like a reasonable guy. You are a new player so no harm done and welcome to VO. :)
People do make mistakes. Only problem is when they do not learn from their mistakes.

Bojan: I don't see the difference, sorry. If they attacked non-TGFT pilots, or used weapons that would disrupt other players, fine--then they're "out to wreck an event." But tell me why TGFT pilots get a pass for the 15 minutes they want to go spend in NW, but they don't get a pass from SKV for their weekly convoy through Ukari that they organized.

The difference is that NW is a once a week thing you opt into; an RP blockade is something that forces you to play along or change your event plans. I really don't see how the logic of the latter (if you don't want your event disrupted, work around the SKV blockade) doesn't apply to the former (if you want to be safe from non-NW pilots during a guild war, make sure you keep the NW location secret).

Let's change the hypo some. NW is a big event, which pretty much has to start on time: you can't hold off, for example, just because some idiot died when he was about to jump in and he was homed back in Sol II/Itan.

What if every week, one hour before NW time rolled around, HAWK set up blockades at both WHs in Latos? They declare that any TGFT passing through will be popped--let's pretend for the moment that HAWK has both the manpower and the skill set to do this ;) So, every week, some chunk of TGFT cannot play in the NW: they get boomed on their way into the system where it's held, and they aren't always homed in Latos, so they can't make it back in time.

Event disruption, or RP blockade?

Nah Lecter, there were no TGFT convoys thru Ukari then. Obsidian run those convoys from Dau and thru Latos or Edras to Odia. But it is beside the point now.
And for that 15 min pass for anyone at NW... why not Lecter?
You and I had our share of long lasting Serco-Itani wars and furballs. Did we ever shoot each other before NW started just because we were on both our guilds KOS list or did we just fight NW?
Did any of Itani or Serco guilds from our time swarm other guilds by jumping in during NW?

Keeping a NW location secret is a good solution but a bit hard to do. Just my 2c.

my fix might not work. but the point is that the problem appears to be an inability to defend an event. fix that issue, and you may very well have fixed this issue.

No, we kept our assholerly confined to an appropriate time and place. I'm just sensitive to the slippery slope here, where new game mechanics are being proposed.

If I'd come in after you with swarms during NW, because all Akanese scum deserve to die whenever and wherever found, I can't believe that SKV's reply would have been to ask for turrets, rather than pwning the shit outta me.

Roda: all other events are already defendable. Only NW, because of its odd set of rules (no returns, only hull you get to work with is the hull you start with), is hard to protect if a hostile can enter the sector.

Interestingly, Deneb Run has a similar set of rules: no dying, or you're out. They never whined about those who camped the route or the station to shoot racers; when they could, the racers struck a bargain with the killers, making the killers a formal part of the event. When they couldn't, they sucked it up and said "inherent risks of racing in VO--first to dock alive wins, and how you died doesn't interest us." NW might benefit from its creators pondering the same approach.

Dr. Lecter: on that note there is a post from LeberMac regarding hunting HAWK's.

Also, with my idea of the old race station in Sedina, many other events could be planned and since it occurs "outside" the known verse because of an instance, any rules can be changed and outside interference can be kept to minimum. Added idea is that any registered event at the station can be posted into the PDA -> Comm -> News section.

H-5 isn't a real station, you can't dock there.

I don't think I would like any idea that made it imposable to mount a disruption of anything that happens in the heart of grey. That being said, I might not mind a slight tweek to enhance conflicts for control of territory. while a hog2 whould still be a suitable delivery of disruption, it isn't to the same effect as the corvus hog. as additional mesure, the devs could add additional performance penalties for weight, making swarms a more compromising armament.

So, I jump in, lock on, and fire at nearby participants.

Then you blow me up because they're heavy.

Whoo! That sure fixed that.

slime73: Exactly! At present it holds no meaning other then the race tubes surrounding it. Make it dockable. Even if no other actions (repair, purchase) are available unless enrolled in an event. If you launch while not enrolled in an event you appear back in h-5 ... if you enroll in the event, when you launch you appear in the event sector. So the event has no physical connection to "real" space. Also because it is a separate sector the rules governing it can be changed, tweaked, or completely rewritten. Example would be the miner challenge mentioned earlier, or my example of restrictions on launch if enrolled, loadouts, ships, etc. You can also set it with a registration fee for some events, or other such things.

So in the "real" verse the change is minimal. Station already exists. We are just activating it for a purpose other then scenery.