Forums » Suggestions
Pretty simple, probably been suggested before, but in protest of the horribly antiquated forums I refuse to use it!
Anyway, two things:
1. Corvus stations need to be accessible by anyone, so that they can always dock somewhere.
2. Corvus stations really shouldn't let someone who just minutes before waxed their entire strike force dock at that station.
So I would suggest time sensitive standing loss. Might also go well with the other factions. For instance if you were UIT, and had managed Respected with Serco, well maybe over the years if you didn't keep it up it would slowly revert back to neutral as administrations changed, politics evolved, etc.
Anyway, two things:
1. Corvus stations need to be accessible by anyone, so that they can always dock somewhere.
2. Corvus stations really shouldn't let someone who just minutes before waxed their entire strike force dock at that station.
So I would suggest time sensitive standing loss. Might also go well with the other factions. For instance if you were UIT, and had managed Respected with Serco, well maybe over the years if you didn't keep it up it would slowly revert back to neutral as administrations changed, politics evolved, etc.
I'm not sure if the "two things" are related to your second statement or not. There is a temp KoS concept being installed, for some limited-time factional penalty, after which the original standing is restored.
But, in your paragraph you seem to be referring more to having standing be "continually depleted" at a slow rate? That's also an interesting concept. I'm sure people would approach it with mixed feelings, but it follows the sort of "Yes, but what have you done for me lately" outlook from the individual factions.
More feedback welcome.
But, in your paragraph you seem to be referring more to having standing be "continually depleted" at a slow rate? That's also an interesting concept. I'm sure people would approach it with mixed feelings, but it follows the sort of "Yes, but what have you done for me lately" outlook from the individual factions.
More feedback welcome.
Sorry, the inherent problems with posting whilst ingame (on one hand wanting to get the idea on paper/forum, and on the other, wanting to get back ingame asap).
Ok I'll clean it up a bit; Two ideas:
1. The Temp KOS idea you speak of is exactly what I'm getting at. Specifically speaking, in the context of Corvus stations. It's understandable that all other factions would, for the most part, be quite happy with permanent standing loss (although this ties into part two). It's widly accepted that Corvus should always remain non-partisan to local NFZ violations due to the inherent game-play-mechanic needs of docking and whatnot. That said, I don't think they should just sit idly by while some rogue rat goes around popping their strike forces. They would likely ban them from docking for a short or long period of time to drive the point home. If this inconveniences said pilot, so be it. Point made.
2. Long term standing loss (and gain). Basically as I said, every nation/faction has the regular change of guard. Papers get lost, secretaries retire, presidents get assasinated, etc. Not to mention statute of limitations (Lecter help me here) and whatnot. If one was to manage a "respected" or "hated" level, well, their deeds might eventually be forgotten (or forgiven). "Respected" would slowly gravitate back to "Neutral", as might "hated".
Possible stats:
1. Corvus (short term): 4 hours to a clean record.
2. Regular Faction (long term): 3 points per day.
While number 2 might seem a bit extreme, it will actually take 10 months of complete inactivity (in the context of standing gain) to go from +999 to +100 (roughly), which would result in a "neutral" standing, which is where the faction loss would stop.
Better yet it could be a formulaic situation where faction loss was slower the higher it was. Something perhaps like:
a -/+ ([3/a] * 10^3)
That would end up with a loss (or gain) of 30 points per day for people with faction of +100/-100. A bit much maybe, maybe not. I was shooting for a loss (or gain) of 3 points per day for someone with +999 (-999)... and my art degree is not helping here... This would of course need to be calculated every 24 hours as opposed to continuously, else no-one would ever get past a faction standing of 1.
This would obviously create a daily break even point (roughly 55 standing a day in this instance).
Anyway...
Ok I'll clean it up a bit; Two ideas:
1. The Temp KOS idea you speak of is exactly what I'm getting at. Specifically speaking, in the context of Corvus stations. It's understandable that all other factions would, for the most part, be quite happy with permanent standing loss (although this ties into part two). It's widly accepted that Corvus should always remain non-partisan to local NFZ violations due to the inherent game-play-mechanic needs of docking and whatnot. That said, I don't think they should just sit idly by while some rogue rat goes around popping their strike forces. They would likely ban them from docking for a short or long period of time to drive the point home. If this inconveniences said pilot, so be it. Point made.
2. Long term standing loss (and gain). Basically as I said, every nation/faction has the regular change of guard. Papers get lost, secretaries retire, presidents get assasinated, etc. Not to mention statute of limitations (Lecter help me here) and whatnot. If one was to manage a "respected" or "hated" level, well, their deeds might eventually be forgotten (or forgiven). "Respected" would slowly gravitate back to "Neutral", as might "hated".
Possible stats:
1. Corvus (short term): 4 hours to a clean record.
2. Regular Faction (long term): 3 points per day.
While number 2 might seem a bit extreme, it will actually take 10 months of complete inactivity (in the context of standing gain) to go from +999 to +100 (roughly), which would result in a "neutral" standing, which is where the faction loss would stop.
Better yet it could be a formulaic situation where faction loss was slower the higher it was. Something perhaps like:
a -/+ ([3/a] * 10^3)
That would end up with a loss (or gain) of 30 points per day for people with faction of +100/-100. A bit much maybe, maybe not. I was shooting for a loss (or gain) of 3 points per day for someone with +999 (-999)... and my art degree is not helping here... This would of course need to be calculated every 24 hours as opposed to continuously, else no-one would ever get past a faction standing of 1.
This would obviously create a daily break even point (roughly 55 standing a day in this instance).
Anyway...
If I follow you correctly, then you are asking every dedicated merchant in the game to commit to doing 13 procurements a day, every day, just to maintain their proffit ratios.
Nothing to do with profit loss. You wouldn't lose any credits. Just faction/standing loss/gain. Like I said, those numbers might be high (or low), and were pretty much just for an example.
POS comes with a monetary benefit. Can't remember exactly what it is, something like 5%. Also, if you did this, it would have to be easier to regain POS, if you're going to automatically lose it every day. I would think a more realistic scenario would be starting to lose standing after a period of no contact with a faction. If you're doing trading runs between a couple stations, the factions of those stations are obviously going to remember you, you're docking a lot and staying in the system. If, however, you are, say, Ineubis admired, and then don't even dock at an Ineubis station for weeks, it would make more sense to start losing faction. You're not bringing anything in, you're off the radar, that sort of thing.
This suggestion, imo, is flawed in the sense that it requires the player to continuously accept and complete missions, at all important factions to them, every day. It starts to revolve into doing a job that the player wishes not to do just for the sake of faction points. Lets not make VO a job that you pay for.
This idea is also hard on the people that don't have time to play the game during school months, are of to another country for a few weeks, their house burns down, their hard rive get ruined, or they are just a sporadic player in general.
While it is realistic, it could have the effect of ruining the game for some people. For instance someone may have worked all summer to get their Orion and Valent up to PoS, but then when they get back on after not playing it all school year they would have practically nothing.
While it is realistic, it could have the effect of ruining the game for some people. For instance someone may have worked all summer to get their Orion and Valent up to PoS, but then when they get back on after not playing it all school year they would have practically nothing.
Hmm, must have just been thinking this, I thought I put it down. POS wouldn't be effected by this, as you could consider that to be legendary enough that they would remember you.
And yeah, it would make sense that as long as you remained in contact with the faction, you wouldn't lose standing, or else not as much. Standing as it is right now is ridiculously easy to get (not POS necessarily which is why you would not lose standing through this if you got there).
And as far as inactive players go, with these numbers it would take 10 months to lose 900 standing. I'm not even arguing for those numbers; the rate could be even slower. We're talking almost a year if you're loved throughout the galaxy.
The main reason I proposed this is because I'm an opponent of staleness, and want things to be dynamic as possible within the realm of good gameplay. Like I said, I'm not attached to anything suggested, and variations on this are more than welcome.
And yeah, it would make sense that as long as you remained in contact with the faction, you wouldn't lose standing, or else not as much. Standing as it is right now is ridiculously easy to get (not POS necessarily which is why you would not lose standing through this if you got there).
And as far as inactive players go, with these numbers it would take 10 months to lose 900 standing. I'm not even arguing for those numbers; the rate could be even slower. We're talking almost a year if you're loved throughout the galaxy.
The main reason I proposed this is because I'm an opponent of staleness, and want things to be dynamic as possible within the realm of good gameplay. Like I said, I'm not attached to anything suggested, and variations on this are more than welcome.
Some considerations on a practical implementation for this:
1. POS: As it is not possible to get higher than +1000 (under current implementation), then POS should be very resistant to errosion or not erode at all.
--> side effect: getting POS gains an increased value to players under these rules.
2. KOS: Permanent KOS should be similarly resistant, as you cannot be worse off than -1000.
--> side effect: it becomes possible to restore [faction] standing much more easily than before by doing an escort mission to [faction] [ie: just enough to reach -999] and then ignoring that faction until you reach -599. Thus, KOS becomes much less of a handicap than it is now.
3. Decay rate: Players have an extremely variable time to devote to the game and any given player may have more time to play in some months compared to others. Thus, any delay to decay or rate of decay should be tied to login time, rather than to clock time.
1. POS: As it is not possible to get higher than +1000 (under current implementation), then POS should be very resistant to errosion or not erode at all.
--> side effect: getting POS gains an increased value to players under these rules.
2. KOS: Permanent KOS should be similarly resistant, as you cannot be worse off than -1000.
--> side effect: it becomes possible to restore [faction] standing much more easily than before by doing an escort mission to [faction] [ie: just enough to reach -999] and then ignoring that faction until you reach -599. Thus, KOS becomes much less of a handicap than it is now.
3. Decay rate: Players have an extremely variable time to devote to the game and any given player may have more time to play in some months compared to others. Thus, any delay to decay or rate of decay should be tied to login time, rather than to clock time.
interesting idea.
How about per-faction medals as kind of a breaking point?
Example:
You run 200 units of food to a starving UIT station, you would gain a medal for this activity, limiting the depletion to ~300
You retain this medal (and all that comes with it) until you do something (kill a UIT ship), in which case the medal is revoked for a time (probably days/weeks) along with the drop in standing. The only way to get this medal back is to run the mission again, only with an increased difficulty level (in this example, say 300 units of food and 100 of water) to give people a reason to really care about their current standings.
For players who go off-line for extended periods, this would keep them from loosing standing beyond a specific point, and could add a bit of added depth to the game (station malfunctions, riots in fringe stations, ect).
Edit:
About POS/KOS: Depending on the faction, I would think POS would decay much more slowly than KOS would. Your image may decay with the people over time, but being a known killer/rat/whatever wouldn't decay as quickly, and would more than likely remain for much longer than POS.
How about per-faction medals as kind of a breaking point?
Example:
You run 200 units of food to a starving UIT station, you would gain a medal for this activity, limiting the depletion to ~300
You retain this medal (and all that comes with it) until you do something (kill a UIT ship), in which case the medal is revoked for a time (probably days/weeks) along with the drop in standing. The only way to get this medal back is to run the mission again, only with an increased difficulty level (in this example, say 300 units of food and 100 of water) to give people a reason to really care about their current standings.
For players who go off-line for extended periods, this would keep them from loosing standing beyond a specific point, and could add a bit of added depth to the game (station malfunctions, riots in fringe stations, ect).
Edit:
About POS/KOS: Depending on the faction, I would think POS would decay much more slowly than KOS would. Your image may decay with the people over time, but being a known killer/rat/whatever wouldn't decay as quickly, and would more than likely remain for much longer than POS.
We are talking about institutional memory which isn't quite as leaky as personal memory here. Seriously, someone who is a felon to the State isn't going to rehabilitate his or her record/reputation by sitting at home drinking tea. Likewise, the record of someone who has served a community selflessly and tirelessly isn't wiped clean just because he or she had to take a job over the border for awhile.
In any case, it sounds like the upcoming Faction system changes are going to make standings more dynamic: That along with closing the holes which make gaining Faction too easily may be enough to render this discussion moot.
In any case, it sounds like the upcoming Faction system changes are going to make standings more dynamic: That along with closing the holes which make gaining Faction too easily may be enough to render this discussion moot.
Except for those felons (KOS), or selfless community service types (POS), then I disagree. If you do a small job to gain a small amount of favour from an administration (especially a democratic one), you can bet there's a good chance if you go away for awhile and a change of guard occurs, your little bit of faction isn't going to necessarily be remembered by the new faces.
Likewise, for small crimes, there's plenty of places where statute of limitations comes into effect.
All of which is why I proposed the sliding scale, making it harder to lose and gain standing the closer you were to either extreme, with none being lost or gained once you fully achieve either (KOS or POS).
I think avalokitty's idea about having it tied to in-game time as opposed to actual time might be worth considering, although I think with the proper equation used to slow down and speed up the relative standings, it would be a moot point as it would take around a year to lose all of your standing (and perhaps longer to gain it on the flipside as krilliner says). Not really something one is going to bother exploiting unless they are ridiculously patient :P
Likewise, for small crimes, there's plenty of places where statute of limitations comes into effect.
All of which is why I proposed the sliding scale, making it harder to lose and gain standing the closer you were to either extreme, with none being lost or gained once you fully achieve either (KOS or POS).
I think avalokitty's idea about having it tied to in-game time as opposed to actual time might be worth considering, although I think with the proper equation used to slow down and speed up the relative standings, it would be a moot point as it would take around a year to lose all of your standing (and perhaps longer to gain it on the flipside as krilliner says). Not really something one is going to bother exploiting unless they are ridiculously patient :P
I have been thinking along the same lines as Snax's point about long term standing. I have POS with all 13 factions, however, I can't recall the last time I did anything in Itani space.
I don't agree with the idea of losing 3 points per day (or any set amount), mainly because it would turn the game pointless maintenance duty. I'd suggest possibly if a player hasn't at least docked with the faction in a month, they should lose 50 points- not to go below the admire/respect threshold. And perhaps the reverse for those with hate or kos standing, again not to go above the hate/dislike threshold.
However, standing should have some maintenance requirement. Especially for the minor, unimportant factions. I suggest that a player need to have some interaction with a faction in order to sustain a high standing. Whether its taking a mission, selling widgets or ore, or just simply docking with a faction station.
I don't agree with the idea of losing 3 points per day (or any set amount), mainly because it would turn the game pointless maintenance duty. I'd suggest possibly if a player hasn't at least docked with the faction in a month, they should lose 50 points- not to go below the admire/respect threshold. And perhaps the reverse for those with hate or kos standing, again not to go above the hate/dislike threshold.
However, standing should have some maintenance requirement. Especially for the minor, unimportant factions. I suggest that a player need to have some interaction with a faction in order to sustain a high standing. Whether its taking a mission, selling widgets or ore, or just simply docking with a faction station.
"...isn't going to necessarily be remembered by the new faces."
That's what writing is for.
That's what writing is for.
The beauty of VO is how laid back the game is. I can play all through summer, and the occasional weekend, and not lose anything. But if I disappear for a while I shouldn't start losing faction! It's hard enough to raise it from 900 to 1000, let alone with it dropping on a daily basis!
I believe this can be worked out, but with so many factions and so little time, this is just a bad idea as-is.
I believe this can be worked out, but with so many factions and so little time, this is just a bad idea as-is.
Sorry for the thread necromancy, but, upon recently resubbing, I was ruminating on how strange it was that every faction in the 'verse still regarded me in the same manner as when I left. Perhaps this isn't an issue for some, but for myself, I find it stagnant.
I think a formulaic solution would appease most complaints in this thread. The lower your faction, the quicker you lose it (<100 for instance might be back at 0 in a month), the higher, the slower, up to POS where you don't lose it at all. The reverse being true for the opposite end of the spectrum, down to KOS, where one would regain no standing.
Perhaps the base/bottom for this calculation could be set differently for different factions depending upon the default starting faction levels for each Nation.
One thing that would be needed would be appropriate notifications upon login: "You've lost X standing with so-and-so", so that players wouldn't be in the dark as to why they could no longer obtain super-item-X, when they could 39 months ago.
I think a formulaic solution would appease most complaints in this thread. The lower your faction, the quicker you lose it (<100 for instance might be back at 0 in a month), the higher, the slower, up to POS where you don't lose it at all. The reverse being true for the opposite end of the spectrum, down to KOS, where one would regain no standing.
Perhaps the base/bottom for this calculation could be set differently for different factions depending upon the default starting faction levels for each Nation.
One thing that would be needed would be appropriate notifications upon login: "You've lost X standing with so-and-so", so that players wouldn't be in the dark as to why they could no longer obtain super-item-X, when they could 39 months ago.
Perhaps this isn't an issue for some, but for myself, I find it stagnant.
Yeah, you're pretty much the only one who doesn't think this idea is worse than a flaming bag of rancid dog shit stuck to their shoe.
Yeah, you're pretty much the only one who doesn't think this idea is worse than a flaming bag of rancid dog shit stuck to their shoe.
ye better be not messing with my KOS!
I sort of like this idea, I figure after an extended period the factions would go down but, as most don't like the 3/what ever points per day... (which I feel is actually reasonable)... suppose that you are PoS with Serco, if you don't do at least one mission every few weeks for them, even a simple escort or HS your faction begins to slip? I don't see it going below neutral though.