Forums » Suggestions
Territory- Definition, Aqusition, and Control of Such
While making long winded posts in http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/19555 , I broke discussion off onto some odd tangents that really should go into their own Suggestions thread. This is that thread, with intense copypaste action and some wall of text content (Parents Strongly Cautioned).
Territory- Defining in VO
As anyone who's taken a gander at the universe view of the VO navmap can attest, each nation has certain systems under their control as their territory. However, exactly how this territory is "owned" has never been clearly laid out. Space is empty. Very empty. There's nothing to plant a flag on in most of it. So, exactly how did these owned systems come to be owned by these nations? I believe I've found an answer.
Sensor webs.
Considering the nature of the mining bots, I think it is both realistic and consistent with the VO lore to have some systems completely blanketed with sensors. We already have self-replicating machines established as viable for mining activity, even if they're not quite completely reliable. Given that the nation home systems have been occupied for thousands of years, there's really no reason that they couldn't have completely saturated the local space with unmanned automatic sensor drones. When you've got centuries to work on something, you tend to be able to make significant progress, especially when dealing with machines that increase in number akin to microbial population curves.
To me, it thus makes perfect sense for systems that have been occupied for centuries to have extensive monitoring networks. It also makes sense for said systems to be fairly resource-poor as a consequence, as nearly all useful materials have already been acquired and put to use. Combined, these two consequences of long-term habitation should make the core systems of the nations very safe, yet unrewarding to stay in.
What I envision is a "Holy big numbers Batman!" quantity of incredibly dumb and mostly inert sensor bricks. All they do is sit there with a little solar cell, an ID number, a transmitter, and a motion detector/radar unit, waiting for something to move quickly enough/close by enough to trigger them. When such activity takes place, the brick starts screaming its number and a direction, alerting a somewhat less dumb and more developed regional sensor satellite, which would swing around and take a closer look at whatever was making the brick cry. IFF systems kick in and the object is categorized as friend/foe/other, and it passes the information on if needed. Simple, effective with the right density, and infinitely scalable- everything needed to cover a whole system if you're willing to wait a few generations for enough sensors to be made and distributed by your mining bots (which hopefully are making sensors, and not plans for universal domination).
This sensor webwork would be one of the main factors in determining exactly who "owns" a system, or an individual sector. By having built and distributed the sensor network, that nation/faction has gained full knowledge of who or what enters, leaves, and conducts activity inside the area of the network. Coupled with a nearby station from which they can launch combat craft, or a patrolling fleet of capships, said area of space is effectively under their control at all times. It has, in essence, become their territory in a very recognizable sense because they have control of the only worthwhile "good" in space- information. We thus have a measurable means by which to gauge ownership, which is reflected in-game by a change in the status of that sector from "Unmonitored" to "Monitored" and the change in ownership from "Unaligned" to the faction that built the sensor web.
Territory- Acquisition
A new system has just been discovered, and the "land rush" is on. The first ships in are simple explorers, given a [Survey Mission] by the discovering faction to scan the system for important features. A basic system map can then be drawn and added to the grand map of the galaxy, with every sector set to Unaligned/Unmonitored.
Next come the nation/faction ships, ready to get down to the business of claiming the system for the greater glory of the Itani/Serco/UIT/their corporate faction/their guild. They take an [Expand Territory] mission from their nearest established station, and start scattering around sensor bricks in the various sectors of the new system that contain something useful to claim. Once enough sensor bricks are in that sector, a sector satellite can be placed to finally start sending back the information gathered. That sector then switches from "Unaligned" to the faction that completed the sensor network, and gains "Monitored" status.
If a series of sectors is of sufficient value to a faction, they can invest a very substantial quantity of resources into the construction of a new station to look over their holdings. Construction of a station would take time, resources, money, and protection, but once finished, would take the place of whatever sensor natwork had been in the sector prior, since I would assume the station alone has all the instrumentation needed to provide full sector monitoring.
[Survey Mission]- Available from the faction that found the wormhole leading to the new system. Takers are randomly assigned a block of sectors, and explore them within a given time. To successfully explore a sector, the player must fly through it and scan all the roids found within. Once all sectors in their block have been scanned, or their time expires, the taker returns to the issuing station to report their findings. The "reward" would be different from normal- aside from the usual momentary gift, if there's anything of interest in what the taker found, they get first shot at naming the feature. For features that span multiple sectors (asteroid belts & clusters, large planets), the first one to successfully report back on part of it get the naming chance.
[Expand Territory]- The taker gets a large number of sensor bricks to distribute to a sector of their choice in the new system. The goal is to arrive in the sector, and jettison the bricks at regular intervals such that the bricks are at a reasonable distance from each other. The mission is cumulative, with each success adding to a total count of sensors found within the sector, even as the old sensors despawn. Once a fairly high threshold value is reached, the mission changes so a sector satellite can be deployed to establish ownership.
Territory- Control & Maintenance
Simply claiming territory doesn't mean you fully control it. Even though your faction is now monitoring the area, any response to unfriendly activity has to be launched from the nearest station, which could be a considerable distance. Not only that, enemies could be working to actively [Wrest Control] of the sector, or even simply scour the space of all sensors by searching out and destroying bricks until the sector can't be effectively monitored. More sensors would have to be scattered at regular intervals to replace those lost, damaged, or destroyed, and the sector satellite would need to be defended.
If a faction ignores or can't effectively keep up their sensor network, they can lose the benefits of such. If the sector satellite is taken out, or too many sensor bricks are lost, the sector becomes Unmonitored until replacements can be put in place. If another faction can successfully [Wrest Control], the sector ownership switches. If an extreme number of sensor bricks are lost, the sector switches back to being Unaligned/Unmonitored regardless of the presence of a sector satellite, and can once again be claimed by anyone. Having a station nearby would greatly reduce the chance of this happening thanks to the nearby armed presence, but if the station itself is taken over, well, don't expect the nearby sectors to last very long.
Not all sector ownership need be changed though hostile means. Sale of territory could be arranged, though the price would be steep for just an empty sector, and be steeper still for sectors with useful objects in them. Nations would likely not sell territory at all. However, individual corporations and guilds may do so quite frequently, to consolidate holdings, greatly boost profits, improve their prestige, or salvage some of their investment if they decide they can't hold onto the territory.
[Wrest Control]- Mission takers are sent to accomplish three tasks: 1) Destroy the current sector satellite, 2) Place one of their own, and 3) Hold the sector long enough that the sensor brick IDs can all be reregistered for the new satellite. From the completion of 1 to completion of 3, the sector is unmonitored, though the controlling faction will be seeking to replace their satellite and chase off the intruders. Completion time for phase 3 varies depending on the number of sensor bricks in the sector, with more bricks meaning a longer timer. This mission is clearly an act of war, and will only be available when the offering faction is on hostile or worse terms with the target faction.
The corporate factions would offer a variant of this mission, which is simply to go and eliminate a certain number of sensors from a competitor's sector. The goal here is to eventually return the sector to Unaligned/Unmonitored status, at which point they could hopefully jump in and "re-civilize" the area, or keep their competition wasting resources on claiming areas instead of exploiting the resources therein. Some pirate factions (Corvus, pirate guilds) may simply want to keep the area unmonitored so their activities can continue unhindered, and the Hive is always going to be after those sensor bricks and satellites for the yummy finished components inside.
Territory- Q&A and Conclusions
So, why bother claiming territory if it won't actually stop anyone from moving through it?
National pride, the right to build stations, it's a prerequisite to having automated NPC mining of the area for your faction, strike forces can only be summoned if the sensors are working, the list can go on and on.
Won't all this sensor bricks in the sectors overload the servers and generate massive lag?
If they were permanent features, yes, they would. I envision the sensors themselves would vanish into a by-sector counter, with only a tiny part of the total active at any given time. They could even be nothing more than persistent cargo crates or mines- immobile, minimum resource objects that won't even "exist" outside of the counter unless a player is there to see them. When a new one is dropped, the oldest one vanishes into the sector count, and when an existing one is picked up/shot, a new one is randomly dropped in from the sector count. The sensors are always implied to be there, but, as little mostly inert bricks, they aren't very easy to detect unless they're active.
Claiming/keeping/taking territory sounds like a ton of work!
Indeed, though your faction won't be sitting on its laurels. Most of the day-to-day maintenance should be automated, with NPC convoys departing to go and fix up the networks. Other faction NPCs would expand territory to unclaimed sectors adjoining those already under their control. These would work much like the current Escort and Hive Skirmish missions, where activity goes on even without a player around- just at much reduced chances of success. The maintenance convoys could be intercepted, and enemy/pirate/Hive activity could thwart expansion attempts, all because they lacked a skilled pair of hands.
Couldn't entire systems wind up being claimed, and force out everyone else?
Yes! That's the dream of every explorer to ever lay a claim for their nation. I'd certainly hope that a system found by the Serco, with no known connections to other systems occupied by opposing factions, would wind up fully controlled by the Serco and turn a lovely shade of red on the universe map. However, even a fully owned system would still have a mere fraction of the sensor network found inside the core systems, possibly by three or four orders of magnitude. A large-scale attack by an Akanese fleet at a later date could severely shake up the system, or even wipe the Serco out entirely. Not to mention what might happen if a few Leviathans and their entourages drift into the system after crossing the interstellar void the hard way...
If sectors can be sold, won't TGFT just buy up the universe?
Only if everyone else is willing to sell. While TGFT may have the funds to do it, if the current owner doesn't want to sell, they can't buy it. Hostile takeovers are an option with the [Wrest Control] mission, but really, we're talking about TGFT here. Make profit, not war.
Isn't this a little early? The expanded universe is years off!
That it is, most likely. However, progress is being made in that direction, and it's actually better to make suggestions on the finished form of the expanded universe earlier rather than later. It is easier to incorporate new ideas into a plan when the most concrete thing you have thus far is itself an idea.
This territory idea sucks!
Well, that's, like, your opinion, man.
Territory- Defining in VO
As anyone who's taken a gander at the universe view of the VO navmap can attest, each nation has certain systems under their control as their territory. However, exactly how this territory is "owned" has never been clearly laid out. Space is empty. Very empty. There's nothing to plant a flag on in most of it. So, exactly how did these owned systems come to be owned by these nations? I believe I've found an answer.
Sensor webs.
Considering the nature of the mining bots, I think it is both realistic and consistent with the VO lore to have some systems completely blanketed with sensors. We already have self-replicating machines established as viable for mining activity, even if they're not quite completely reliable. Given that the nation home systems have been occupied for thousands of years, there's really no reason that they couldn't have completely saturated the local space with unmanned automatic sensor drones. When you've got centuries to work on something, you tend to be able to make significant progress, especially when dealing with machines that increase in number akin to microbial population curves.
To me, it thus makes perfect sense for systems that have been occupied for centuries to have extensive monitoring networks. It also makes sense for said systems to be fairly resource-poor as a consequence, as nearly all useful materials have already been acquired and put to use. Combined, these two consequences of long-term habitation should make the core systems of the nations very safe, yet unrewarding to stay in.
What I envision is a "Holy big numbers Batman!" quantity of incredibly dumb and mostly inert sensor bricks. All they do is sit there with a little solar cell, an ID number, a transmitter, and a motion detector/radar unit, waiting for something to move quickly enough/close by enough to trigger them. When such activity takes place, the brick starts screaming its number and a direction, alerting a somewhat less dumb and more developed regional sensor satellite, which would swing around and take a closer look at whatever was making the brick cry. IFF systems kick in and the object is categorized as friend/foe/other, and it passes the information on if needed. Simple, effective with the right density, and infinitely scalable- everything needed to cover a whole system if you're willing to wait a few generations for enough sensors to be made and distributed by your mining bots (which hopefully are making sensors, and not plans for universal domination).
This sensor webwork would be one of the main factors in determining exactly who "owns" a system, or an individual sector. By having built and distributed the sensor network, that nation/faction has gained full knowledge of who or what enters, leaves, and conducts activity inside the area of the network. Coupled with a nearby station from which they can launch combat craft, or a patrolling fleet of capships, said area of space is effectively under their control at all times. It has, in essence, become their territory in a very recognizable sense because they have control of the only worthwhile "good" in space- information. We thus have a measurable means by which to gauge ownership, which is reflected in-game by a change in the status of that sector from "Unmonitored" to "Monitored" and the change in ownership from "Unaligned" to the faction that built the sensor web.
Territory- Acquisition
A new system has just been discovered, and the "land rush" is on. The first ships in are simple explorers, given a [Survey Mission] by the discovering faction to scan the system for important features. A basic system map can then be drawn and added to the grand map of the galaxy, with every sector set to Unaligned/Unmonitored.
Next come the nation/faction ships, ready to get down to the business of claiming the system for the greater glory of the Itani/Serco/UIT/their corporate faction/their guild. They take an [Expand Territory] mission from their nearest established station, and start scattering around sensor bricks in the various sectors of the new system that contain something useful to claim. Once enough sensor bricks are in that sector, a sector satellite can be placed to finally start sending back the information gathered. That sector then switches from "Unaligned" to the faction that completed the sensor network, and gains "Monitored" status.
If a series of sectors is of sufficient value to a faction, they can invest a very substantial quantity of resources into the construction of a new station to look over their holdings. Construction of a station would take time, resources, money, and protection, but once finished, would take the place of whatever sensor natwork had been in the sector prior, since I would assume the station alone has all the instrumentation needed to provide full sector monitoring.
[Survey Mission]- Available from the faction that found the wormhole leading to the new system. Takers are randomly assigned a block of sectors, and explore them within a given time. To successfully explore a sector, the player must fly through it and scan all the roids found within. Once all sectors in their block have been scanned, or their time expires, the taker returns to the issuing station to report their findings. The "reward" would be different from normal- aside from the usual momentary gift, if there's anything of interest in what the taker found, they get first shot at naming the feature. For features that span multiple sectors (asteroid belts & clusters, large planets), the first one to successfully report back on part of it get the naming chance.
[Expand Territory]- The taker gets a large number of sensor bricks to distribute to a sector of their choice in the new system. The goal is to arrive in the sector, and jettison the bricks at regular intervals such that the bricks are at a reasonable distance from each other. The mission is cumulative, with each success adding to a total count of sensors found within the sector, even as the old sensors despawn. Once a fairly high threshold value is reached, the mission changes so a sector satellite can be deployed to establish ownership.
Territory- Control & Maintenance
Simply claiming territory doesn't mean you fully control it. Even though your faction is now monitoring the area, any response to unfriendly activity has to be launched from the nearest station, which could be a considerable distance. Not only that, enemies could be working to actively [Wrest Control] of the sector, or even simply scour the space of all sensors by searching out and destroying bricks until the sector can't be effectively monitored. More sensors would have to be scattered at regular intervals to replace those lost, damaged, or destroyed, and the sector satellite would need to be defended.
If a faction ignores or can't effectively keep up their sensor network, they can lose the benefits of such. If the sector satellite is taken out, or too many sensor bricks are lost, the sector becomes Unmonitored until replacements can be put in place. If another faction can successfully [Wrest Control], the sector ownership switches. If an extreme number of sensor bricks are lost, the sector switches back to being Unaligned/Unmonitored regardless of the presence of a sector satellite, and can once again be claimed by anyone. Having a station nearby would greatly reduce the chance of this happening thanks to the nearby armed presence, but if the station itself is taken over, well, don't expect the nearby sectors to last very long.
Not all sector ownership need be changed though hostile means. Sale of territory could be arranged, though the price would be steep for just an empty sector, and be steeper still for sectors with useful objects in them. Nations would likely not sell territory at all. However, individual corporations and guilds may do so quite frequently, to consolidate holdings, greatly boost profits, improve their prestige, or salvage some of their investment if they decide they can't hold onto the territory.
[Wrest Control]- Mission takers are sent to accomplish three tasks: 1) Destroy the current sector satellite, 2) Place one of their own, and 3) Hold the sector long enough that the sensor brick IDs can all be reregistered for the new satellite. From the completion of 1 to completion of 3, the sector is unmonitored, though the controlling faction will be seeking to replace their satellite and chase off the intruders. Completion time for phase 3 varies depending on the number of sensor bricks in the sector, with more bricks meaning a longer timer. This mission is clearly an act of war, and will only be available when the offering faction is on hostile or worse terms with the target faction.
The corporate factions would offer a variant of this mission, which is simply to go and eliminate a certain number of sensors from a competitor's sector. The goal here is to eventually return the sector to Unaligned/Unmonitored status, at which point they could hopefully jump in and "re-civilize" the area, or keep their competition wasting resources on claiming areas instead of exploiting the resources therein. Some pirate factions (Corvus, pirate guilds) may simply want to keep the area unmonitored so their activities can continue unhindered, and the Hive is always going to be after those sensor bricks and satellites for the yummy finished components inside.
Territory- Q&A and Conclusions
So, why bother claiming territory if it won't actually stop anyone from moving through it?
National pride, the right to build stations, it's a prerequisite to having automated NPC mining of the area for your faction, strike forces can only be summoned if the sensors are working, the list can go on and on.
Won't all this sensor bricks in the sectors overload the servers and generate massive lag?
If they were permanent features, yes, they would. I envision the sensors themselves would vanish into a by-sector counter, with only a tiny part of the total active at any given time. They could even be nothing more than persistent cargo crates or mines- immobile, minimum resource objects that won't even "exist" outside of the counter unless a player is there to see them. When a new one is dropped, the oldest one vanishes into the sector count, and when an existing one is picked up/shot, a new one is randomly dropped in from the sector count. The sensors are always implied to be there, but, as little mostly inert bricks, they aren't very easy to detect unless they're active.
Claiming/keeping/taking territory sounds like a ton of work!
Indeed, though your faction won't be sitting on its laurels. Most of the day-to-day maintenance should be automated, with NPC convoys departing to go and fix up the networks. Other faction NPCs would expand territory to unclaimed sectors adjoining those already under their control. These would work much like the current Escort and Hive Skirmish missions, where activity goes on even without a player around- just at much reduced chances of success. The maintenance convoys could be intercepted, and enemy/pirate/Hive activity could thwart expansion attempts, all because they lacked a skilled pair of hands.
Couldn't entire systems wind up being claimed, and force out everyone else?
Yes! That's the dream of every explorer to ever lay a claim for their nation. I'd certainly hope that a system found by the Serco, with no known connections to other systems occupied by opposing factions, would wind up fully controlled by the Serco and turn a lovely shade of red on the universe map. However, even a fully owned system would still have a mere fraction of the sensor network found inside the core systems, possibly by three or four orders of magnitude. A large-scale attack by an Akanese fleet at a later date could severely shake up the system, or even wipe the Serco out entirely. Not to mention what might happen if a few Leviathans and their entourages drift into the system after crossing the interstellar void the hard way...
If sectors can be sold, won't TGFT just buy up the universe?
Only if everyone else is willing to sell. While TGFT may have the funds to do it, if the current owner doesn't want to sell, they can't buy it. Hostile takeovers are an option with the [Wrest Control] mission, but really, we're talking about TGFT here. Make profit, not war.
Isn't this a little early? The expanded universe is years off!
That it is, most likely. However, progress is being made in that direction, and it's actually better to make suggestions on the finished form of the expanded universe earlier rather than later. It is easier to incorporate new ideas into a plan when the most concrete thing you have thus far is itself an idea.
This territory idea sucks!
Well, that's, like, your opinion, man.
Hmm, not bad. Makes sense, and could potentially work quite well.
Personally, I see official "ownership" of a system to require the prerequisite of holding both wormholes and at least so great a percentage of the sectors.
Personally, I see official "ownership" of a system to require the prerequisite of holding both wormholes and at least so great a percentage of the sectors.
I like the idea, a lot. I'm not sure about the specific implementation mechanics of sensor bricks, but I like the concept behind them as well. I don't really have anything to add other than, "this is neat idea".
Yea, sweet man. Nice work.
Very well written, IRS, and I agree wholeheartedly. Player ownership would be a driving force behind role play. Guilds and players would have reason to deal with each other. If a mission or trade route took you through another's territory, and they were there to defend, you may end up paying a tax to pass. Guilds could have fights with each other and attack in force. Fleet warfare has always been something I've enjoyed. One on one's are fun, but 5 on 5's or ten on ten's are magnificent. Throw in a capship or two and, by God, we've got a war.
Perhaps we could also let players create industries for their bases. They can create commodities and equipment that is only available at their base. The equip can be guild specific (mining guilds have sweet mining beams, bounty hunters have more powerful missiles, etc.) and sold to only those the guild approves of.
Perhaps we could also let players create industries for their bases. They can create commodities and equipment that is only available at their base. The equip can be guild specific (mining guilds have sweet mining beams, bounty hunters have more powerful missiles, etc.) and sold to only those the guild approves of.