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Ion storms are annoying and useless, some proposed changes
Right now, I'm fairly sure most everyone would agree with me if I said Ion storms don't have a point right now other than to annoy travelers. They aren't particularly dangerous, nor do they do more than add a few kilometers and a loading screen on your route. So, after discussing an entirely other thing in secretive IRC channels and PM's, I sort of came upon and idea to make them a bit more...interesting.
I'm going to start with some quickly written narrative fluff before doing more technical explanation. The quality isn't that great, I'm just writing directly into the postbox without proofreading, but here we go:
The rise of the intrasystem FTL drive in XXXX revolutionized spacetravel as we knew it. Prior, ships had to trek untold months across empty space to reach their destinations while risking themselves against the harsh conditions of outer space. It works by using the gravitic modulation abilities of all ships to literally punch a hole linking distant parts of traditional space. Any matter passed through this tear in space instantly ends up on the other side unharmed, producing a shortcut of sorts.
Early adoption of the drive was slow; while it was possible to send matter through, it was not possible to send information. Thusly, it was impossible to tell the conditions of the other side of the tear. As pinpointing exit locations improved, however, the FTL drive became a favored tool of space pilots to save time and money between destinations. The drive was not without its own set of problems, though.
A few years after widespread adoption of the gravitic FTL drive, the gravitic tears in space time were not leading to the precalculated destination, but into what were later coined as "ion storms", an area of entrancing blue fog and dancing lights that disabled most of a pilots navigation systems. These ion storms nearly caused the usage of the gravitic FTL drive to cease entirely, until an intrepid explorer showed that it was indeed possible to reliable calculate places in the ion storm that the drive could be reactivated to return to a random location in normal space. It was later learned that these ion storms were, in a sense, what science fiction in the past had described as subspace, or hyperspace. In fact, it was often found that ships would pass dangerously close to each other in the mysterious fog that would have otherwise crossed paths thousands of light seconds apart, if at all.
There are a few recorded cases of pilots attempting to use the FTL drives to calculate points in distant star systems, but all attempts have ended in failure. The exact reason is unknown, but scientists theorize that the gravitic drives only function in the local area of a star's massive gravity well.
In recent times, public officials have lamented on the inability to find people who have escaped into subspace via ion storms. Considering the extreme reduction in sensor strength and visibility, this claim is not without merit. There are rumors that some organizations have even set up exclusive settlements in subspace, isolated from anyone who doesn't have the right map.
Essentially, I propose that ion storms not suck you out of warp to specific sectors, but instead bring you to a per-system "subspace" area with the current ion storm effect. This area is accessable only by being caught into an ion storm and being pulled into that area. However, this area is shared by all ion storms in a single system. Furthermore, all entrance and exit points of this area should be the same, leading into a single path of travel for anyone who enters an ion storm. However, when you leave an ion storm via this single exit point, you will be transported to a random non-storm sector in the system. It could be your destination, it could be an empty sector off to the side, or it could be your origin sector. In any case, your navroute would still be pointing towards your destination. Also, each time the exit point is used, the user is thrown to a different random sector. This gives storms an interesting strategical aspect from the viewpoint of fleet movements.
On the other side, since ion storms would pull players into a single sector-like "subspace" area, there is the possibility to hide stations in this area. Factions like the Akan, pirates, or space hermits could set up hidden bases in subspace of various systems, using these places to launch attacks or merely for the purposes of hiding themselves away from society. On this note, the stations would be given a visible waypoint to people in the storm who have completed a mission tree or somewhat in order to ease navigation to those stations. However, these stations would be findable by those without a map, but docking with them might be a different matter depending on the station, faction standing, mission completement, etc.
Since all ion storms lead to the same sector-like subspace area(with the same entrance/exit points for all storms), it would increase player interaction in these areas. As the tips note, ion storms are places pirates often like hiding in, but that's not exactly true as-is. This, coupled with stations existing in some ion storm subspace areas would provide potentially dangerous, but rewarding areas for players.
I'm going to start with some quickly written narrative fluff before doing more technical explanation. The quality isn't that great, I'm just writing directly into the postbox without proofreading, but here we go:
The rise of the intrasystem FTL drive in XXXX revolutionized spacetravel as we knew it. Prior, ships had to trek untold months across empty space to reach their destinations while risking themselves against the harsh conditions of outer space. It works by using the gravitic modulation abilities of all ships to literally punch a hole linking distant parts of traditional space. Any matter passed through this tear in space instantly ends up on the other side unharmed, producing a shortcut of sorts.
Early adoption of the drive was slow; while it was possible to send matter through, it was not possible to send information. Thusly, it was impossible to tell the conditions of the other side of the tear. As pinpointing exit locations improved, however, the FTL drive became a favored tool of space pilots to save time and money between destinations. The drive was not without its own set of problems, though.
A few years after widespread adoption of the gravitic FTL drive, the gravitic tears in space time were not leading to the precalculated destination, but into what were later coined as "ion storms", an area of entrancing blue fog and dancing lights that disabled most of a pilots navigation systems. These ion storms nearly caused the usage of the gravitic FTL drive to cease entirely, until an intrepid explorer showed that it was indeed possible to reliable calculate places in the ion storm that the drive could be reactivated to return to a random location in normal space. It was later learned that these ion storms were, in a sense, what science fiction in the past had described as subspace, or hyperspace. In fact, it was often found that ships would pass dangerously close to each other in the mysterious fog that would have otherwise crossed paths thousands of light seconds apart, if at all.
There are a few recorded cases of pilots attempting to use the FTL drives to calculate points in distant star systems, but all attempts have ended in failure. The exact reason is unknown, but scientists theorize that the gravitic drives only function in the local area of a star's massive gravity well.
In recent times, public officials have lamented on the inability to find people who have escaped into subspace via ion storms. Considering the extreme reduction in sensor strength and visibility, this claim is not without merit. There are rumors that some organizations have even set up exclusive settlements in subspace, isolated from anyone who doesn't have the right map.
Essentially, I propose that ion storms not suck you out of warp to specific sectors, but instead bring you to a per-system "subspace" area with the current ion storm effect. This area is accessable only by being caught into an ion storm and being pulled into that area. However, this area is shared by all ion storms in a single system. Furthermore, all entrance and exit points of this area should be the same, leading into a single path of travel for anyone who enters an ion storm. However, when you leave an ion storm via this single exit point, you will be transported to a random non-storm sector in the system. It could be your destination, it could be an empty sector off to the side, or it could be your origin sector. In any case, your navroute would still be pointing towards your destination. Also, each time the exit point is used, the user is thrown to a different random sector. This gives storms an interesting strategical aspect from the viewpoint of fleet movements.
On the other side, since ion storms would pull players into a single sector-like "subspace" area, there is the possibility to hide stations in this area. Factions like the Akan, pirates, or space hermits could set up hidden bases in subspace of various systems, using these places to launch attacks or merely for the purposes of hiding themselves away from society. On this note, the stations would be given a visible waypoint to people in the storm who have completed a mission tree or somewhat in order to ease navigation to those stations. However, these stations would be findable by those without a map, but docking with them might be a different matter depending on the station, faction standing, mission completement, etc.
Since all ion storms lead to the same sector-like subspace area(with the same entrance/exit points for all storms), it would increase player interaction in these areas. As the tips note, ion storms are places pirates often like hiding in, but that's not exactly true as-is. This, coupled with stations existing in some ion storm subspace areas would provide potentially dangerous, but rewarding areas for players.
Seeing as how Suicidal Lemming is far too lazy to post for himself, here's a neat idea he came up with in IRC in response to the idea as a whole that I think is pretty great.
<Lemming> you know what would be awesome
<Lemming> you're stuck in the subspace goo, flying mindlessly to the exit point
<Lemming> then the hive, which decided it needed to move the bastion, gets dumped in as well
<Lemming> you know what would be awesome
<Lemming> you're stuck in the subspace goo, flying mindlessly to the exit point
<Lemming> then the hive, which decided it needed to move the bastion, gets dumped in as well
I like this. I'm not entirely certain of any reason why we shouldn't do it- as it would make both 'storms' and lying in wait within them actually matter.
If there was a way to disable the sector list within this non-space sector, that would also add to the final product.
If there was a way to disable the sector list within this non-space sector, that would also add to the final product.
can it scuba! the ion storm gives purpose to the raptor!!!!!!!
(ok... nobody uses that but hey...)
(ok... nobody uses that but hey...)
Some implications:
1) Under these rules, you will clearly fail your escort mission the moment you find such a storm as, once your flight group reaches the exit, it will be entirely scattered all over the system. (& some portion of which may likely be returned to the storm entry.) How will you find them all again? How will you protect the ones returned for a second lap through the storm ? Or, who are sent to the storm again trying to regather ?
2) How am I to arrive at a destination that is currently subject to bad weather. Do you expect me to log out in the adjacent sector and wait until morning to deliver my timed cargo mission ?
3) This could result in up to a 3% chance with any in-system jump to an environement far more risky than grey space. Access to storm sensors becomes especially important in this context. New players start with no access to and no prospects of access to storm sensors without a considerable investment in the game. Currently, the tech advantage of established rats over new players results in a substantive attrition rate to new players (especially those who start in UIT); and, consequently, will generate more bad reviews of the game.
4) I estimate that, regardless of the storm frequency rate, I could expect to have my flight path interrupted about 60% to 80% more often than I would under the current rules. As I say, I am just guessing at the cummulative effects of being returned to a sector that is marked as a storm entry with the chance that I am returned further/closer to my intended destination. The actually number aside, it will be appreciably bigger than 1, so this will make all travel, to anywhere, slower and more annoying.
1) Under these rules, you will clearly fail your escort mission the moment you find such a storm as, once your flight group reaches the exit, it will be entirely scattered all over the system. (& some portion of which may likely be returned to the storm entry.) How will you find them all again? How will you protect the ones returned for a second lap through the storm ? Or, who are sent to the storm again trying to regather ?
2) How am I to arrive at a destination that is currently subject to bad weather. Do you expect me to log out in the adjacent sector and wait until morning to deliver my timed cargo mission ?
3) This could result in up to a 3% chance with any in-system jump to an environement far more risky than grey space. Access to storm sensors becomes especially important in this context. New players start with no access to and no prospects of access to storm sensors without a considerable investment in the game. Currently, the tech advantage of established rats over new players results in a substantive attrition rate to new players (especially those who start in UIT); and, consequently, will generate more bad reviews of the game.
4) I estimate that, regardless of the storm frequency rate, I could expect to have my flight path interrupted about 60% to 80% more often than I would under the current rules. As I say, I am just guessing at the cummulative effects of being returned to a sector that is marked as a storm entry with the chance that I am returned further/closer to my intended destination. The actually number aside, it will be appreciably bigger than 1, so this will make all travel, to anywhere, slower and more annoying.
Whatever avalokitty says, I like the idea, scuba. The concept would require some other game changes as avalokitty whined. There needs to be a way to plot around such a misfortune. I propose allowing the leader of the escort party to plot the course before leaving the station.
And this: As the FTL drive functions, it grows more unstable over greater distances. Thus a jump across 10 sectors has a much greater chance (5%) of getting you caught in subspace than a 4 sector jump (0%).
This, or allow groups that exit within a said amount of time of each other to go to the same sector.
That's all for now...
-R IBA 3.14rat
And this: As the FTL drive functions, it grows more unstable over greater distances. Thus a jump across 10 sectors has a much greater chance (5%) of getting you caught in subspace than a 4 sector jump (0%).
This, or allow groups that exit within a said amount of time of each other to go to the same sector.
That's all for now...
-R IBA 3.14rat
can it scuba! the ion storm gives purpose to the raptor!!!!!!!
(ok... nobody uses that but hey...)
Well, uhh, for one the subspace sector will use the storm mechanic, so it'd make raptors even more important.
1) Under these rules, you will clearly fail your escort mission the moment you find such a storm as, once your flight group reaches the exit, it will be entirely scattered all over the system. (& some portion of which may likely be returned to the storm entry.) How will you find them all again? How will you protect the ones returned for a second lap through the storm ? Or, who are sent to the storm again trying to regather ?
That's a good point. I like stackman's idea of having the convoy follow your planned route. This produces an interesting problem for anyone flying escort.
2) How am I to arrive at a destination that is currently subject to bad weather. Do you expect me to log out in the adjacent sector and wait until morning to deliver my timed cargo mission ?
You don't. Because of this it's imperative that current station and wormhole sectors continue to not suffer from ion storms.
3) This could result in up to a 3% chance with any in-system jump to an environement far more risky than grey space. Access to storm sensors becomes especially important in this context. New players start with no access to and no prospects of access to storm sensors without a considerable investment in the game. Currently, the tech advantage of established rats over new players results in a substantive attrition rate to new players (especially those who start in UIT); and, consequently, will generate more bad reviews of the game.
I think this is a nonissue. For one, entrance and exit points inside the subspace sector will continue to be as clearly marked as current ion storms. Right now it's not necessary to have a storm radar extended equipped for general purpose travel, and I don't see how this will make it any different. Where do you get 3% from anyway?
By the way, "storm sensors" are only used to extend radar range and, via wireframe, visible range in storm sectors. Not sense where storms are. Hopefully you weren't confused about that.
4) I estimate that, regardless of the storm frequency rate, I could expect to have my flight path interrupted about 60% to 80% more often than I would under the current rules. As I say, I am just guessing at the cummulative effects of being returned to a sector that is marked as a storm entry with the chance that I am returned further/closer to my intended destination. The actually number aside, it will be appreciably bigger than 1, so this will make all travel, to anywhere, slower and more annoying.
Why would you have your flight interrupted more often? Where do you get these percentages? The current spawning systems of ion storms will still be in place, so they would appear with the same regularity as they do now. I specifically stated in the original post that players should be returned to a non-storm sector; players may have to modify their navroutes to avoid asteroid sectors, yes, or they can gamble and go straight to their destination. All in all, I'm not entirely sure of your reasoning behind this argument. Could you explain it a bit better to me?
And this: As the FTL drive functions, it grows more unstable over greater distances. Thus a jump across 10 sectors has a much greater chance (5%) of getting you caught in subspace than a 4 sector jump (0%).
I prefer the current method of designating certain sectors as ion storm sectors.
If there was a way to disable the sector list within this non-space sector, that would also add to the final product.
This is a good idea.
Scuba wrote some narrative fluff
In general, this is a horrible way to explain how ion storms work in context of the current universe. It's in no way anywhere near canon, nor does it offer a good technical explanation based on current theories of wormholes and Einstein-Rosen bridges in the context of the VO universe. It's a neat way to describe what I'm getting out without bogging people down in technical junk though.
(ok... nobody uses that but hey...)
Well, uhh, for one the subspace sector will use the storm mechanic, so it'd make raptors even more important.
1) Under these rules, you will clearly fail your escort mission the moment you find such a storm as, once your flight group reaches the exit, it will be entirely scattered all over the system. (& some portion of which may likely be returned to the storm entry.) How will you find them all again? How will you protect the ones returned for a second lap through the storm ? Or, who are sent to the storm again trying to regather ?
That's a good point. I like stackman's idea of having the convoy follow your planned route. This produces an interesting problem for anyone flying escort.
2) How am I to arrive at a destination that is currently subject to bad weather. Do you expect me to log out in the adjacent sector and wait until morning to deliver my timed cargo mission ?
You don't. Because of this it's imperative that current station and wormhole sectors continue to not suffer from ion storms.
3) This could result in up to a 3% chance with any in-system jump to an environement far more risky than grey space. Access to storm sensors becomes especially important in this context. New players start with no access to and no prospects of access to storm sensors without a considerable investment in the game. Currently, the tech advantage of established rats over new players results in a substantive attrition rate to new players (especially those who start in UIT); and, consequently, will generate more bad reviews of the game.
I think this is a nonissue. For one, entrance and exit points inside the subspace sector will continue to be as clearly marked as current ion storms. Right now it's not necessary to have a storm radar extended equipped for general purpose travel, and I don't see how this will make it any different. Where do you get 3% from anyway?
By the way, "storm sensors" are only used to extend radar range and, via wireframe, visible range in storm sectors. Not sense where storms are. Hopefully you weren't confused about that.
4) I estimate that, regardless of the storm frequency rate, I could expect to have my flight path interrupted about 60% to 80% more often than I would under the current rules. As I say, I am just guessing at the cummulative effects of being returned to a sector that is marked as a storm entry with the chance that I am returned further/closer to my intended destination. The actually number aside, it will be appreciably bigger than 1, so this will make all travel, to anywhere, slower and more annoying.
Why would you have your flight interrupted more often? Where do you get these percentages? The current spawning systems of ion storms will still be in place, so they would appear with the same regularity as they do now. I specifically stated in the original post that players should be returned to a non-storm sector; players may have to modify their navroutes to avoid asteroid sectors, yes, or they can gamble and go straight to their destination. All in all, I'm not entirely sure of your reasoning behind this argument. Could you explain it a bit better to me?
And this: As the FTL drive functions, it grows more unstable over greater distances. Thus a jump across 10 sectors has a much greater chance (5%) of getting you caught in subspace than a 4 sector jump (0%).
I prefer the current method of designating certain sectors as ion storm sectors.
If there was a way to disable the sector list within this non-space sector, that would also add to the final product.
This is a good idea.
Scuba wrote some narrative fluff
In general, this is a horrible way to explain how ion storms work in context of the current universe. It's in no way anywhere near canon, nor does it offer a good technical explanation based on current theories of wormholes and Einstein-Rosen bridges in the context of the VO universe. It's a neat way to describe what I'm getting out without bogging people down in technical junk though.
Letting a convoy leader plan a route would help, but there's always the chance of hitting a hidden asteroid sector that has a storm. Once this happens, as av pointed out, your mission is basically done with everyone coming out at random points. Now maybe that's acceptable, if new ion storms are supposed to be as disruptive as they sound, especially since if you plan your route carefully the chances of hitting one are very very low.
Or, there are two ways to make the mission still finishable that I see...first as 3.14 suggested figure out some way (timer based may not work, if the timer resets half way through your convoy jumping) to get the whole group to end in the same sector.
Alternatively, along with giving the group leader route-planning capabilities, they could also have the ability to issue orders to individual ships. This would of course take a whole new interface and a lot of work, but simple commands like "Stay here," "go to sector ___" or whatever would make it pretty easy to put your convoy back together after it gets scattered by a storm.
Overall it's an interesting idea. It would certainly be one of those things that brings players closer together, which at this point can only be good. Unfortunately I can imagine that it would take a lot of work on the devs part (especially if stations were put in). I'd like to see what they think, and if maybe the idea could appear in the hazy future.
Or, there are two ways to make the mission still finishable that I see...first as 3.14 suggested figure out some way (timer based may not work, if the timer resets half way through your convoy jumping) to get the whole group to end in the same sector.
Alternatively, along with giving the group leader route-planning capabilities, they could also have the ability to issue orders to individual ships. This would of course take a whole new interface and a lot of work, but simple commands like "Stay here," "go to sector ___" or whatever would make it pretty easy to put your convoy back together after it gets scattered by a storm.
Overall it's an interesting idea. It would certainly be one of those things that brings players closer together, which at this point can only be good. Unfortunately I can imagine that it would take a lot of work on the devs part (especially if stations were put in). I'd like to see what they think, and if maybe the idea could appear in the hazy future.
I like the spirit. Here are my proposed changes
1: There is 1 subspace Ion Storm zone in each system.
2: Ion storms effect the area between two zones, not actual zones, so you can't find the storms by hopping into a zone
3: There is only one exit from the Ion storm & it should have some sort of eye candy associated with it. Maybe a swirlling view of normal space.
4: The Exit requires 100% (Like a worm hole)
5: Power regens at 10% of the normal rate
6: The exit has a 60% chance of dumping you at your desintion, 25% at your origin and 15% in a random zone.
This makes the storm annoying, danagerous if enemies are inside and hard to get out. I'd also propose some changes to how they spawn.
1: They can occur in any zone
2: Sytems have various levels of storm activity
- N00b systems would have almost no storms
- Some grey space would have frequent storms
3: Multiple storms spawn at one time
- In bad weather systems you could have 10-20 storm
lines at once
- Good weather systems may only have 1-2 storm lines.
1: There is 1 subspace Ion Storm zone in each system.
2: Ion storms effect the area between two zones, not actual zones, so you can't find the storms by hopping into a zone
3: There is only one exit from the Ion storm & it should have some sort of eye candy associated with it. Maybe a swirlling view of normal space.
4: The Exit requires 100% (Like a worm hole)
5: Power regens at 10% of the normal rate
6: The exit has a 60% chance of dumping you at your desintion, 25% at your origin and 15% in a random zone.
This makes the storm annoying, danagerous if enemies are inside and hard to get out. I'd also propose some changes to how they spawn.
1: They can occur in any zone
2: Sytems have various levels of storm activity
- N00b systems would have almost no storms
- Some grey space would have frequent storms
3: Multiple storms spawn at one time
- In bad weather systems you could have 10-20 storm
lines at once
- Good weather systems may only have 1-2 storm lines.
I have no problem with ion storms as they are - missions aren't guaranteed success nor is travel guaranteed safe. When hauling cargo in a less-than-speedy ship, hitting a hive-infested ion storm can be quite the adventure. In fact, I'd like to see more viable ways to use ion storms tactically as they are.
1. Make ion storm sectors unmonitored space. This opens up nefarious opportunities even in Serco and Itani space.
2. Give the TPG Raptor the ability to scan for storms either system-wide or in a limited radius around the ship's current sector. Need to be able to find the storms to use them. Also would make the Raptor a good forward-scout for convoys/strike forces. (Along these lines, I second being able to give orders to NPC convoys - it would make escort missions more interactive than going from point A to point B and hoping nothing happens.
3. System-wide ion storm activity reports. Not sector-by-sector but a general idea of the probability for an ion storm in each system (e.g., CAUTION: Latos system has a 25% chance of ion storm activity). Only systems with greater than normal ion storm activity need be listed.
4. Possible to tie ion storms to traffic through the sector? - the more traffic through a sector, the more likely there will be an ion storm. This can be adjusted per sector so that newbie systems won't suffer from this as much as outlying systems. Blame it on the gravitic flux or something.
1. Make ion storm sectors unmonitored space. This opens up nefarious opportunities even in Serco and Itani space.
2. Give the TPG Raptor the ability to scan for storms either system-wide or in a limited radius around the ship's current sector. Need to be able to find the storms to use them. Also would make the Raptor a good forward-scout for convoys/strike forces. (Along these lines, I second being able to give orders to NPC convoys - it would make escort missions more interactive than going from point A to point B and hoping nothing happens.
3. System-wide ion storm activity reports. Not sector-by-sector but a general idea of the probability for an ion storm in each system (e.g., CAUTION: Latos system has a 25% chance of ion storm activity). Only systems with greater than normal ion storm activity need be listed.
4. Possible to tie ion storms to traffic through the sector? - the more traffic through a sector, the more likely there will be an ion storm. This can be adjusted per sector so that newbie systems won't suffer from this as much as outlying systems. Blame it on the gravitic flux or something.
I don't like the idea of being returned to your storm entry point, this forces you into a loop. I do like a single exit point, with the eye candy, and jumping into a random non storm sector. Ideally, other nearby ships won't see where you're going like in regular jumps.
stations inside of storm sectors are a neat idea, as well as good weather/bad weather systems. since storms come and go, maybe have a special sector for the stations that you can jump to only while in a storm, say with special exit coordinates you earn through a mission? It would be nice to have a weather forecast, so you could either avoid storms, or jump into one more reliably.
stations inside of storm sectors are a neat idea, as well as good weather/bad weather systems. since storms come and go, maybe have a special sector for the stations that you can jump to only while in a storm, say with special exit coordinates you earn through a mission? It would be nice to have a weather forecast, so you could either avoid storms, or jump into one more reliably.
THIS THREAD IS ANNOYING