just occured to me there is an option that could be implemented very easily, sort of a "sub capitol ship".

theres a type of Moth that isnt currently player owned. it has turrets and looks as though it has the standard two large ports on the front sides. since the player base isnt very large the turrets could be controlled the way they currently are with an AI crew.

im sure it has its own stats but maybe they could be tweaked a bit to make it fit a "sub cappie", say give it 500 cu for storage, a bit more armor...ect...ect...

anyways it could help with the transition to player owned cappies and give us traders/miners some thing new, the pirates would have better targets and better loot collecting ships, VIPER would have more people to escort. its easy and its win win .

Ryan, I like your train of thought, but one fault I see.

Capital-class ships are engineered to serve that role, and the Moth definitely isn't. Even with tweaked engines, a 500cu Moth would be next to totally impossible to fly. Acceleration and maneuvering would be almost zero, and your turrets, I don't know if it's possible for AI targeting yet on a player owned vessel (plus, it could be inadvertently bloody if the AI starts shooting at a non-hostile craft just because standing was off).

Agreed.

Yes I think that 500cu of space full would be impossible.

Back when Heavy Gatling Turrets were accidentally introduced, they were 10,000 to the cu.

Don't even get me started on how hard it was to get from Border Skirmish back to Sedina in that.

ok not 500...(unless the ships size and current stats were seriously tweaked). the moth i have now, i believe its an XC? has 200cu and handles pretty well, if a bit on the slower side. so maybe, 400 cu or even 350?

there are other things that could be done I suppose, like giving it 2 or more battery ports, or boosting the thrust a bit to compensate for the increased mass...etc...etc...

That is what would realistically be done, yes. If you wanted to tow 5 tons with a truck you were building, but it wouldn't budge, you wouldn't say: "Huh, I guess you can't do that," if you could add more horsepower to the engine. (This assumes you're Ford, or Chevy, or whatever)

(You would also have to do a lot of work to the frame and suspension and drivetrain and such, if upgrading a truck intended to pull X, to instead pull X^2 or whatever)

The base idea isn't bad, but I'm not sure how I feel about it. Will cogitate. Feel free to keep the ideas/feedback coming.

what if it was a variant of the turret moth? twice the size, better engine, same speed but more thrust so it could get up to speed quicker with the same amount...or only two turrets...(rear and top or bottom) the increased size would make it more cappie like and presumably give it better armor/cargo room while maintianing balance because it would move like a moth and be a huge target that REALLY hard to miss. you could even experiment with giving it shields...nothing to overwhelming, maybe 2-3 times its actual hull points for shields. with either no recharge, slow recharge with heavy power drain or no recharge untill shields hit zero. the turrets wouldnt even really need to be AI...(though it would be the best way to do it, so multiple ships could be targeted)...they could be tied into the main/secondary triggers.

edit: okay, I didn't mean to hijack this thread... initially I thought you were suggesting a multi-player version of the moth, now on re-reading I'm not sure. A single player ship with AI turrets would be interesting, however I think multi-player vessels would be a more radical development.

I love this idea.

I recommend making it tied to the group system, so that if you and a grouped player were docked at the same station, you would both be able to see and activate the (purchased) moth heavy. The ship's owner/captain could show up in parenthesis next to it.

When the owner launched, everyone who had the moth heavy activated would launch along with him, then passengers would get a cap ship interface and be able to select one of the turrets.

You could transport passengers, give 'star tours', etc. etc.

Since there are no docking ports it would be nice to give passengers the option to 'jump back' to their home station at any time.

What happens when the captain wants to dock at a station of hostile faction to one of the passengers?
The faction of all passengers would be checked before the captain was allowed to dock, all passengers must have disliked faction or better

How many PKs does killing one of these count for?
Just one, the pilot. Passengers would still get one death and be sent back home

What happens if the captain logs off?
The ship disappears and passengers all get booted home

What happens if someone leaves the group mid-flight?
Next time the captain docks, they would be left behind

Who or what is "VIPER"?

hat happens when the captain wants to dock at a station of hostile faction to one of the passengers?
The faction of all passengers would be checked before the captain was allowed to dock, all passengers must have disliked faction or better

or if the passenger is KoS, the passenger dies on the station

How many PKs does killing one of these count for?
Just one, the pilot. Passengers would still get one death and be sent back home

I would think 1pk for every active turret + the pilot

I like the mutli player idea to, but right now the player base might be to small to make it viable. another way to do it could be AI turrets with player use as an option or even allow the pilot to turret jump while the ship goes on auto pilot...(like the actual cappies do)

another way you could handle the weapons is the way its currently done. just do different buttons for the various weapons groupings/turrets.

Hauling 500 cu of something isn't at all infeasible. The stats of the ships just need to be adjusted to match. For example, if you simply increase the thrust of a moth to compensate for 500cu of cargo, you end up with an empty moth that handles like a centurion. But, if you increase the MASS of the moth and the thrust accordingly, you get a moth that is barely adversely affected by increased mass, and yet still handles like a moth while empty. Example, a 1 million kg moth with thrust to match would hardly be effected by an additional 500 cu of cargo that massed only 40000kg.

It seems to me the game mechanics are uniquely suited to this situation. The available adjustable stats of ships in the game make it completely possibly to build a moth that can hold 500 or even 5000cu of cargo and still perform the same way.

I like this idea alot........

how about a version of this with the raptor? or with the teradon?
double the size, several AI turrets, double the mass, double the thrust, and a system of flagging enemies with their kill priority - ( a list with players, factions, guilds the AI system will try to destroy or attack with utmost to least priority)

and a way to turn off the AI turrets and a way to temporarily point them all at one target

well Inc likes this idea and is thinking about it. its basically a way to test the use of player owned capital ships...(and later stations)...but ultimately its just a simple means to an end. a way to tinker with an existing large ship and guage the in game reaction with little difficulty in the area of implimentation as there is already a Moth that fit could be tinkered with to fit a "sub cap ship" role.

Actually, acceleration and maneuvering would be just about exactly the same. This is assuming that a moth x times heavier would have x times the thrust and x times the spin torque, with the same density anyways.

I just figured, increase the thrust because of the size/mass/wieght so it wouldnt take forever to get up to a good speed.

to make it more caplike, in the rear there appears to be a door. it could be replaced by a small docking port and the smaller ships could then dock...(1 fighter per Moth)...the pilot of the fighter would have to have the proper faction standing for the Moths pilot,
or the Moths pilot could simply jettison the fighter/pilot.
thus enebling another player to man the turrets...(though I'm still in favor of AI turrets.)
with AI turrets, each one could target a different ship or concetrate fire on one ship.

with the current amount of players online at any given moment, the AI seems the way to go. or perhaps the turrets could operate under various trigger keys.

another thing, awhile back some one suggested a capital class mining ship...and the idea was well liked. it seems to me this moth could be the answer to that ship as well. with 2 large mining beams, a mineral scanner and 3 or 4 turret mounted mining beams...it could target multiple roids, or if the multi targeting is to difficult to impliment then it would simply make mining single roids more efficient by all turrets + 2 large beams targeting 1 roid.

I see everyone wants to use the Moth as the subcapital ship. Howabout me and Ryan Statis come up with ideas/models for the ships? I just downloaded Paintshop pro, and I'll start drawing.