It's kind of ridiculous how in space, where there's supposedly no friction, the rotation of your ship always slows down on one point. It makes it very difficult to pilot smoothly, as the rate at which your nose moves is always jumping around. At least without a joystick, it's nearly impossible to get even turns unless those turns are at full speed. More so, it's frustrating because the game assumes that when your mouse stops moving, it means you want your nose to quit moving. This is a friendly way to teach newbies flying, but it limits the potential of an experienced pilot. I liken the auto-correcting done to flight assist, which I always prefer off.

So, 'aim assist' off would make it so that your ship would keep its momentum when aiming. If you moved the mouse to the right, your ship would turn right, and keep turning, until you centered it again. The same could go for CW and CCW rotations, as I spend more time with those on in combat than I do them off. Naturally, a sort of centering function would be nice, one that stop your ship spinning, like the 'brakes' do for velocity, but if not then binding such a key would be easy enough.

I want the mouse to basically function like a joy stick. When it's centered on the middle, nothing moves, but when it moves away from the center, it constantly inputs the message to turn in that direction. I've tried to bind something like this together, but either I'm not smart enough, or I don't have the appropriate commands to do so. Regardless, I think pilots with mice should have the equal advantage of those with joysticks. There's just no comparison with having to constantly drag something along, to just a single quick movement that can determine angle, and to what degree.

Basically, full Newtonian physics?

It might be neat to have as an option, but I wouldn't get rid of the current setup if this was added.

I always thought it'd be a cool option.

Pilots with mice-or trackpads-do just fine, genius. It's not the game, it's you.

I don't make any claims to be a fantastic pilot, but still it's not uncommon to hear the sentiments that those with joysticks somehow have an advantage. No doubt both methods have their pros and cons. I just believe that it'd be nice, as an option, for many people to have this little function, especially for a game noted for its physics.

Besides, don't you use a joystick Hannibal?

Edit: But this isn't supposed to be a sissy fit over joysticks vs. mouse and keyboard. In fact, I'd say this system would be more accurate than either.

lecty is keyboard/trackpad user.

he owns my sorry little ass any time (and he likes it more than i do), and i use a dual-stick + buttons pad.

it's you. as it was me. and lag time.

edit: the system has been discussed many times over.

Have you tried flying with the mouse but with mouselook off, by chance? It's much "smoother", but it still isn't what you want. Or maybe that is what you're talking about.

I absolutely hate the type of control you describe, where the mouse position on the screen dictates the rotation inputs. I suppose some people could get used to it over time but I never could. One thing about our game that will make it really hard to aim at anything is that there's non-trivial rotational inertia, so the ship's rotation will always lag your inputs, and centering the mouse on the screen doesn't immediately stop your rotation. A recentering bind would probably help considerably, but I think it'd be extremely tough to aim at anything with this system. But you'd fly very smoothly, I'll give you that.

Aiming at stuff is what mouselook was designed for, at the expense of smooth flight, and aiming at stuff is mostly what you want to do in the game. And I totally disagree that people with joysticks have an advantage. The mouselook system is much more precise IMO, but I'm biased as I came up with it.

That doesn't mean we can't or won't implement that idea, as it is something that other games have used and thus might be good for familiarity's sake.

i want my mac laptop's motion sensor to be used for flying around. then i can run around my living room making "vrrrr pioo pioo pssh!" sounds as i swirl around the expensive bugger.

I also have been aggravated by having to constantly pick up the mouse and move it over, so that I can continue a turn. I have considered a system such as you describe, and envision it to be about as intuitive as the current system.

In the current system, you use your mouse to look at the target, and the ship attempts to match your mouse. The motion of the mouse is absolute. If your ship gets knocked into a spin, your mouse is still looking at whatever you where last looking at.

You are talking about relative mouse control. where the ship still tries to follow the mouse, but the mouse position fights just as hard to stay away from the orientation of the ship. If you place the mouse 10 degrees to the left, the ship arcs to match it, but the mouse always stays at 10 degrees, until you move it. People will still look at their target, and as the ship moves around to match, it will shove the mouse away from the target. players will then automatically track the target with the mouse. you have added the step of active tracking, which is not currently needed for stationary target. but this is ok, because players are naturally good at this anyway.

I would like to see an option for this control input method.

Vote: AYE

I use a trackpad on a Powerbook G4.

a while ago i forwarded to mom a mac framework to use the wiimote as input device. (i actually use it once in a while in moments of pure boredom or extreme geekyness)

any progress on that mom? even if it's unsupported? :p

me too, lecter. it works especially well for botting. you only have to move your finger to recontrol the ship reticule.

Question: wasn't there some kind of manual override for the inertial dampeners on the ship's rotation? Shouldn't it be possible through adjusting the inertial dampening and mouse sensativity, to make the ship behave... more or less, like the model he's describing? it still wouldn't be the same thing, and I do think Roda's idea has some merit, and would like to see it implemented, however such a hack solution could be enough to hold some players over in the meantime.

What I'm thinking is basically the same as with mouselook off, but when I stop moving the mouse, it doesn't let my ship stop turning. It keeps going at the rate that it was at the time that I let go. The only way to stop, essentially, would be to turn in the opposite direction just enough. The difference between this and how Roda put it is that if you got hit by flares or ran into a station wall, your ship wouldn't try to correct itself. Rather, it'd try to hold whatever momentum it has, as it would in a true frictionless environment. I hope that makes sense.

Perhaps that's how 'aim assist' could function without mouselook, and how Roda described would function with mouselook on. Either method would be a blessing though. Oh, and play around with those dampeners Cunjo, I forgot about those. Thanks.

Thanks for explaining better, Lakche. Your idea sounds very good.

The merit of this system is that it'd be less strain on the wrist to get those smooth turns to work. The current system is fantastic for pinpointing a direction in space, but combat is rarely so static. In order to get a controlled turn, you have to keep the mouse in motion. In contrast, this idea would allow you to keep your turns in motion with a static, one time movement of the mouse. Given the physical limitations of how slightly a human can drag the mouse, vs. running out of pad to track with, I'd say this method would offer more control.

sounds like a good idea to me, sorta like being able to use a trackpad or a mouse like a joystick. this would be great if its possible to implement. and i could turn off mouselooks finally.

"A recentering bind would probably help considerably, but I think it'd be extremely tough to aim at anything with this system. But you'd fly very smoothly, I'll give you that."

Maybe it'd be helpful for piloting Cappies as well.

inertia is not your friend:

http://www.x-plane.com/SpaceCombat.html