Forums » Suggestions
Ok. So, I'm a ... serco. For example.
I proceed to ruin my reputation with serco, itani and gain a lot of reputation with Tunguska. Wouldn't it be nice if I would from this point forward show up as "Tunguska" in the list, and have my channel 11 filtered for Tunguska, rather than Serco (who hate my guts)?
Basically, I suggest:
1) having a player's nation automatically set to whatever faction (s)he has the highest standing with and
2) letting the IFF system determine who's a friend of foe by his or her reputation towards the faction you are actually a part of and
3) rerouting channel 11 (Nation channel) to your current nation.
Maybe even a bit of faction loss/gain for killing a player belonging to a certain faction?
How's that sound?
I proceed to ruin my reputation with serco, itani and gain a lot of reputation with Tunguska. Wouldn't it be nice if I would from this point forward show up as "Tunguska" in the list, and have my channel 11 filtered for Tunguska, rather than Serco (who hate my guts)?
Basically, I suggest:
1) having a player's nation automatically set to whatever faction (s)he has the highest standing with and
2) letting the IFF system determine who's a friend of foe by his or her reputation towards the faction you are actually a part of and
3) rerouting channel 11 (Nation channel) to your current nation.
Maybe even a bit of faction loss/gain for killing a player belonging to a certain faction?
How's that sound?
Way too easy is how that sounds. I think that defecting from one nation/faction to another should involve a long-ish tree of missions used to prove your new allegiance. For some, perhaps even a "donation" of credits would be needed. This can't happen until the limits on the faction system are in place (ie: you can't have Admired with everybody), though.
I definitely agree with Mr. Lazer. Gaining respectability with one nation or faction is an entirely different thing to changing the nationality of ones character. Let's get the faction systems working, first.
Well, I thought I'd get the suggestion out there anyway. Just in case the devs decide they like it - they can keep it in mind and not build themselves into any corners that require large changes.
I'm not sure I like the idea of your standing with one group interfering with your faction from another. Think about mercenaries. Mercs build a reputation of staying bought once you buy them, but being open to play both sides. Reading anything by David Drake or Chris Bunch (I just found out that he passed away on July 4th, 2005. What an amazing life and incredible talent taken away at age 62.) will provide an idea what I mean.
For example: "Star Risk; LTD." by Bunch. Star Risk is hired to fulfill a contract, sometimes by the opposite side as their LAST contract. No one holds a grudge, because the professionalism of Star Risk is understood.
It's entirely possible for a person to be equally respected or hated by all factions. Not too many people speak of Adolph Hitler with much rejoicing, but nearly everyone admires Albert Einstein. Those are just two quick examples from history. I'm sure there are others if one searches enough.
Just my thoughts.
~D.
"Nigel"
For example: "Star Risk; LTD." by Bunch. Star Risk is hired to fulfill a contract, sometimes by the opposite side as their LAST contract. No one holds a grudge, because the professionalism of Star Risk is understood.
It's entirely possible for a person to be equally respected or hated by all factions. Not too many people speak of Adolph Hitler with much rejoicing, but nearly everyone admires Albert Einstein. Those are just two quick examples from history. I'm sure there are others if one searches enough.
Just my thoughts.
~D.
"Nigel"
On the other hand, somebody who gave military aid to the Nazis in World War 2 was not going to be privy to state secrets of the US, were they? Civilians might be able to achieve a measure of standing with opposing factions (although certainly not PoS, and probably not even Admired), but beyond that...
Well, this thread isn't really about the "all-green yes or no" issue - it's about your nation. There's nothing in this suggestion that says you can't have +900 standing with all factions, and +990 with UIT - and thus be identified as a Member of UIT.
(Now, I personally don't like the fact that people can be all green, due to the tremendous potential for abuse it opens up - but that's being dealt with in other threads, and we really don't need to debate it here too.)
And now, back to the scheduled on-topic broadcasts.
(Now, I personally don't like the fact that people can be all green, due to the tremendous potential for abuse it opens up - but that's being dealt with in other threads, and we really don't need to debate it here too.)
And now, back to the scheduled on-topic broadcasts.
I think it's a good idea in general. I'd like to have an alt who's faction showed up on the 'u' page and elsewhere as Xiang Xi or Corvus or TPG or something.
I think this will all be worked out with the faction standing fix, otherwise known as the "13-dimensional hypercube."
LeberMac's Take on Faction Standing
1. We've got 13 factions to keep track of, I think we should add the HIVE as a 14th faction, but that's optional I guess. More on this below.
2. I'm of the opinion that the relations between each and every faction would always be in a state of flux. The average relations standing of all the playerbase and NPC character base would be averaged and weighted to determine the "base" relations between the factions. More below.
3. Players would be able to choose a different faction once they reached a certain level combination, such as a total of 20 levels. Or posssibly they are allowed to complete a specific mission set that allows them to do this. They must always start out as Serco, Itani, or UIT. Once they reach 6/7/7/0/0 or 4/4/4/4/4, they are essentially "free agents" and can switch factions by completing a series of missions, described below.
4. NPC's would be set up with faction standing and would persist throughout the universe. For example "*Spivak Gungan" is generated one day as an Ineubis trader, and he persists from mission to mission, taking breaks and sleeping, etc as described below.
5. Friendly Fire is abolished once you reach a total of 10 levels or a set amount of kills (PK vs. NPK or some kind of weighted ratio) . It's great for learning, but advanced pilots should be able to shoot anyone they want. It would act essentially the same way as the basic combat mission. Once you're at a certain level, the gloves are off.
6. Guilds as Factions.
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OK, the Hive:
I think the Hive should be a faction. I think that certain players would really get into this, for example docking with a Queen or the Leviathan would be interesting. Defending collector bots would be neat, but, like Corvus, being a hive faction would mean you'd need to manually TANK your other faction standings with everyone else before you can attempt the Hive mission. If you succeed, you're welcomed into the collective and you can understand the binary hails, rearm and repair, home inside leviathans, etc. However if all the leviathans are destroyed and you die, you might just drift for a bit until the Void spawns another Levi. Who knows?
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Constantly changing relations dynamics:
I think that the overall "faction" attitude towards another "faction" whould be the avrage of how its citizens feel. If we can create a universe where there are always (numbers for illustrative purposes only) 500 Itani, 500 Serco, 500 UIT, and 100 of every other faction online, then the averages would mean something. When players log in, they displace the most convenient NPC character from their faction (like in the Matrix when an Agent assumes the role of a person). That randomly-selected NPC goes into storage for as long as the player is connected and online, maintaining the artificial population of the universe at a standardized level.
Let's say that out of the 500 Serco players online, there is a Serco guild, let's call it [SAW], with 50 people online at the same time. These 50 players decide to raid all of the BioCom shipments for a week, trashing their BioCom standing by doing so. Let's assume a 1000 point drop in all 50 players. The overall standing betweeen the Serco nation faction and the BioCom corporate faction would suffer due to these attacks.
All Serco players would see a drop their BioCom standing thanks to this, by say, 100 points. As s side effect, Itani players might see a slight rise in their BioCom standings of say, 25 points. BioCom faction players would see a drop in their Serco standing by, say, 50 points. Numbers are for illustrative purposes only, obviously.
I think this would promote a kind of "Cold-War" type of faction alliance, with some factions tending towards Itani, some factions tending towards Serco, and perhaps even some tending towards UIT.
The coolest thing about this is that players could essentially instigate wars between factions by their actions. If Itani traders routinely bring medical supplies to Ineubis stations, the Itani nation and the Ineubis faction will become closer. If Corvus faction players routinely destroy Xang-Xi faction convoys, Xang-Xi may declare all Corvus faction PC's and NPC's KOS. Which boosts realism and allows the players to get more "immersion", which I think is good.
This will affect the economy as well. If Orion faction players blockade an Aeolus station and destroy all transports headed there, Aeolus will have to raise the prices they pay for goods in order to entice traders to attempt to run the blockade. Orion players will lose Aeolus standing, Aeolus players will lose Orion standing, and before you know it open warfare breaks out. Neato! :)
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Choosing a Different Faction
This is pretty straightforward. You should be able to select a different faction. The ways to reach this point could be:
a) You've played for a certain length of time ingame (ingame play hours are over 25 or whatever). We'd need a way to ensure that this is *active* time, not just logging in and leaving your computer run while you go do something else.
b) You've reached a certain level or combination of levels totalling a certain number. I know that the game's direction is to eventually get away from levels, but I throw this in there as a possible set.
c) You've completed a mission set that allows you to make these choices. Probably would have to be some kind of mission that distances you from your selected nation.
But, essentially, once you get that "flag" set in your character, other missions open up to you, that take you down the path of choosing another faction. Your faction standing for your desired faction will have to be, say, +800 or higher before you attempt this, and if at any time while you're completing the mission thread your faction standing drops below that number, your mission thread aborts and you must start over. Something like 6 missions in increasing difficulty to gain acceptance.
Then, once you get accepted into your new faction, that "flag" is un-set. In order to switch again, you'll need to take a series of missions that distance yourself from your current faction again, or you'll need to play 25 hours as your new faction, or you'll need to gain a set number of levels while in your new faction, in order to switch again. This will put a dampner on the "revolving door" syndrome.
Or perhaps you could go factionless? I don't know if that's possible. "Unaligned" players? "Dispossed" players? "Exiled" players? That might be neato. You're treated as having 0 faction with all nations and factions - you get neither benefits nor advantages. If you want to discourage players playing as "factionless", let's say that you can lower your standing but never raise it until you join a faction. That would be interesting.
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NPC's, their factions, and persistence
Like I said before, I think it would be nice if there was a stable population level for the VO universe. Players would account for around 50 of the positions, throughout various factions, and the rest of the population would be NPC "filler."
However, these NPC's would act essentially like players. Their actions would raise and lower standing, their deliveries would raise and lower standing, they would be added into the overall average of nation faction standing, etc.
These NPC's would have roles, and they would respawn just like players, except that at a certain number of deaths (like 250) they would die permanently, and a new NPC would take their place. Their combat levels would increase (their AI would go from the stupid Orun Collector AI up to an AI that dodges really well and mixes up its styles) and their overall levels would increase in the same way that a Player's does. I think this is essentially what Momerath has planned for the NPC code, and I love this direction.
The main issue here is one of permanence: In order to be swayed from one faction to another, NPC's would need to persist longer than a trade run from Dau to Verasi. Keeping them around makes the universe more consistent and reduces the amount of damage a large player guild could do to the faction system. Coming up with a playable average population number would be an important balancing issue.
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Abolish Friendly Fire
Title says it all, mainly. It's useful for a training device, but sometime early in a player's development, it should be taken out. Anyone should be able to damage anyone. There are plenty of times when, due to the broken faction system, I have not been able to kill someone who is certainly able to shoot at me.
You should be able to go below -599 with Corvus. Many people exploit this limitation. Killing someone in Corvus space should be fine, but if they're Corvus Admired, you should be in a heap of trouble, and get shot down to negative standing quickly for repeat offenders.
If you kill someone inside the NFZ, do you get a faction hit? If you don't, that's stupid. Dunno if this has been fixed or not, it's been forever since I've stationkilled anyone.
Additionally, if you kill someone way far away from everything, you should get a faction hit as well, just not a large one.
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Guilds as Factions
This is probably far away, but having the ability for a long-standing guild to become its own faction is probably the holy grail of most guildmembers. If a guild has had a set number of members for a certain length of time, has enough credits in the bank, and meets whatever other requirements that the devs decide to come up with, then this would be neat.
It should, of course, come with its own station and would in every other way be essentially like a small corporation with room to expand. You'd get a small amount of NPC bots that would always be online representing your guild/faction. Essentially these factions would be the third-tier of factions, with the top (Major) factions being Itani, Serco, and UIT. Second-tier are the grayspace and UIT corporations. Third-tier are the guild-faction tiers. Then we'll need more than a 14-dimensional hypercube...
That's it. I may have more to come soon™
LeberMac's Take on Faction Standing
1. We've got 13 factions to keep track of, I think we should add the HIVE as a 14th faction, but that's optional I guess. More on this below.
2. I'm of the opinion that the relations between each and every faction would always be in a state of flux. The average relations standing of all the playerbase and NPC character base would be averaged and weighted to determine the "base" relations between the factions. More below.
3. Players would be able to choose a different faction once they reached a certain level combination, such as a total of 20 levels. Or posssibly they are allowed to complete a specific mission set that allows them to do this. They must always start out as Serco, Itani, or UIT. Once they reach 6/7/7/0/0 or 4/4/4/4/4, they are essentially "free agents" and can switch factions by completing a series of missions, described below.
4. NPC's would be set up with faction standing and would persist throughout the universe. For example "*Spivak Gungan" is generated one day as an Ineubis trader, and he persists from mission to mission, taking breaks and sleeping, etc as described below.
5. Friendly Fire is abolished once you reach a total of 10 levels or a set amount of kills (PK vs. NPK or some kind of weighted ratio) . It's great for learning, but advanced pilots should be able to shoot anyone they want. It would act essentially the same way as the basic combat mission. Once you're at a certain level, the gloves are off.
6. Guilds as Factions.
------------------------------------------------------
OK, the Hive:
I think the Hive should be a faction. I think that certain players would really get into this, for example docking with a Queen or the Leviathan would be interesting. Defending collector bots would be neat, but, like Corvus, being a hive faction would mean you'd need to manually TANK your other faction standings with everyone else before you can attempt the Hive mission. If you succeed, you're welcomed into the collective and you can understand the binary hails, rearm and repair, home inside leviathans, etc. However if all the leviathans are destroyed and you die, you might just drift for a bit until the Void spawns another Levi. Who knows?
----------------------------------------------------
Constantly changing relations dynamics:
I think that the overall "faction" attitude towards another "faction" whould be the avrage of how its citizens feel. If we can create a universe where there are always (numbers for illustrative purposes only) 500 Itani, 500 Serco, 500 UIT, and 100 of every other faction online, then the averages would mean something. When players log in, they displace the most convenient NPC character from their faction (like in the Matrix when an Agent assumes the role of a person). That randomly-selected NPC goes into storage for as long as the player is connected and online, maintaining the artificial population of the universe at a standardized level.
Let's say that out of the 500 Serco players online, there is a Serco guild, let's call it [SAW], with 50 people online at the same time. These 50 players decide to raid all of the BioCom shipments for a week, trashing their BioCom standing by doing so. Let's assume a 1000 point drop in all 50 players. The overall standing betweeen the Serco nation faction and the BioCom corporate faction would suffer due to these attacks.
All Serco players would see a drop their BioCom standing thanks to this, by say, 100 points. As s side effect, Itani players might see a slight rise in their BioCom standings of say, 25 points. BioCom faction players would see a drop in their Serco standing by, say, 50 points. Numbers are for illustrative purposes only, obviously.
I think this would promote a kind of "Cold-War" type of faction alliance, with some factions tending towards Itani, some factions tending towards Serco, and perhaps even some tending towards UIT.
The coolest thing about this is that players could essentially instigate wars between factions by their actions. If Itani traders routinely bring medical supplies to Ineubis stations, the Itani nation and the Ineubis faction will become closer. If Corvus faction players routinely destroy Xang-Xi faction convoys, Xang-Xi may declare all Corvus faction PC's and NPC's KOS. Which boosts realism and allows the players to get more "immersion", which I think is good.
This will affect the economy as well. If Orion faction players blockade an Aeolus station and destroy all transports headed there, Aeolus will have to raise the prices they pay for goods in order to entice traders to attempt to run the blockade. Orion players will lose Aeolus standing, Aeolus players will lose Orion standing, and before you know it open warfare breaks out. Neato! :)
---------------------------------------------
Choosing a Different Faction
This is pretty straightforward. You should be able to select a different faction. The ways to reach this point could be:
a) You've played for a certain length of time ingame (ingame play hours are over 25 or whatever). We'd need a way to ensure that this is *active* time, not just logging in and leaving your computer run while you go do something else.
b) You've reached a certain level or combination of levels totalling a certain number. I know that the game's direction is to eventually get away from levels, but I throw this in there as a possible set.
c) You've completed a mission set that allows you to make these choices. Probably would have to be some kind of mission that distances you from your selected nation.
But, essentially, once you get that "flag" set in your character, other missions open up to you, that take you down the path of choosing another faction. Your faction standing for your desired faction will have to be, say, +800 or higher before you attempt this, and if at any time while you're completing the mission thread your faction standing drops below that number, your mission thread aborts and you must start over. Something like 6 missions in increasing difficulty to gain acceptance.
Then, once you get accepted into your new faction, that "flag" is un-set. In order to switch again, you'll need to take a series of missions that distance yourself from your current faction again, or you'll need to play 25 hours as your new faction, or you'll need to gain a set number of levels while in your new faction, in order to switch again. This will put a dampner on the "revolving door" syndrome.
Or perhaps you could go factionless? I don't know if that's possible. "Unaligned" players? "Dispossed" players? "Exiled" players? That might be neato. You're treated as having 0 faction with all nations and factions - you get neither benefits nor advantages. If you want to discourage players playing as "factionless", let's say that you can lower your standing but never raise it until you join a faction. That would be interesting.
------------------------------------------------
NPC's, their factions, and persistence
Like I said before, I think it would be nice if there was a stable population level for the VO universe. Players would account for around 50 of the positions, throughout various factions, and the rest of the population would be NPC "filler."
However, these NPC's would act essentially like players. Their actions would raise and lower standing, their deliveries would raise and lower standing, they would be added into the overall average of nation faction standing, etc.
These NPC's would have roles, and they would respawn just like players, except that at a certain number of deaths (like 250) they would die permanently, and a new NPC would take their place. Their combat levels would increase (their AI would go from the stupid Orun Collector AI up to an AI that dodges really well and mixes up its styles) and their overall levels would increase in the same way that a Player's does. I think this is essentially what Momerath has planned for the NPC code, and I love this direction.
The main issue here is one of permanence: In order to be swayed from one faction to another, NPC's would need to persist longer than a trade run from Dau to Verasi. Keeping them around makes the universe more consistent and reduces the amount of damage a large player guild could do to the faction system. Coming up with a playable average population number would be an important balancing issue.
-------------------------------------------------
Abolish Friendly Fire
Title says it all, mainly. It's useful for a training device, but sometime early in a player's development, it should be taken out. Anyone should be able to damage anyone. There are plenty of times when, due to the broken faction system, I have not been able to kill someone who is certainly able to shoot at me.
You should be able to go below -599 with Corvus. Many people exploit this limitation. Killing someone in Corvus space should be fine, but if they're Corvus Admired, you should be in a heap of trouble, and get shot down to negative standing quickly for repeat offenders.
If you kill someone inside the NFZ, do you get a faction hit? If you don't, that's stupid. Dunno if this has been fixed or not, it's been forever since I've stationkilled anyone.
Additionally, if you kill someone way far away from everything, you should get a faction hit as well, just not a large one.
-----------------------------------------------------
Guilds as Factions
This is probably far away, but having the ability for a long-standing guild to become its own faction is probably the holy grail of most guildmembers. If a guild has had a set number of members for a certain length of time, has enough credits in the bank, and meets whatever other requirements that the devs decide to come up with, then this would be neat.
It should, of course, come with its own station and would in every other way be essentially like a small corporation with room to expand. You'd get a small amount of NPC bots that would always be online representing your guild/faction. Essentially these factions would be the third-tier of factions, with the top (Major) factions being Itani, Serco, and UIT. Second-tier are the grayspace and UIT corporations. Third-tier are the guild-faction tiers. Then we'll need more than a 14-dimensional hypercube...
That's it. I may have more to come soon™
Specifically, I'd like to see how this whole faction-standing thing would work if levels are abolished and everything becomes mission-oriented, like the devs have indicated is the direction they're going.
I'd add to Leeb's post:
Ability of players to set their/guild's standing to other players/guilds
Simple /playerstanding Splash KOS will prevent pirates to appear green on my radar and will remove the friendly fire problem
Ability of players to set their/guild's standing to other players/guilds
Simple /playerstanding Splash KOS will prevent pirates to appear green on my radar and will remove the friendly fire problem
Eh? Splash KOS?
But Aleksey...im your friendly neighborhood pirate. :(
But Aleksey...im your friendly neighborhood pirate. :(
Lebermac wrote There are plenty of times when, due to the broken faction system, I have not been able to kill someone who is certainly able to shoot at me. What kind of crzay exploit is that??
That's when someone who doesn't care about their standing in a certain sector or near a certain station can blast the crap out of me, and if I return fire and kill them, I'll lose standing.
Which really sucks. And is an exploit. And should be fixed, but I'm sure that the entire system overhaul will tidy things up.
Which really sucks. And is an exploit. And should be fixed, but I'm sure that the entire system overhaul will tidy things up.
Leber, you weren't shot down, man, you rammed the cargo bay because you have tequila on a freaking IV drip!
~D.
"Nigel"
~D.
"Nigel"
Instead of starting a new thread, I used the painful site search function to find this old thread. (It worked for me this time, Whistler! Whaddya know?)
So, since the devs have indicated they are working on this whole faction standing system thingy, will we be able to switch factions soon? See post in this same thread:
http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/14417#181798
I'm itching to be an Orion operative rather than Itani.
So, since the devs have indicated they are working on this whole faction standing system thingy, will we be able to switch factions soon? See post in this same thread:
http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/14417#181798
I'm itching to be an Orion operative rather than Itani.
Firstly, I didn't read all of the preceding posts, so forgive me if I restate anything here.
It's a good idea, but I see several problems that might arise. Should you raise your standing with more than one nation or faction then what filter should be applied to your channel 11, or IFF for example. Many players have more than one POS gold bar, which could complicate things.
Additionally, I agree with Rougelazer that if you tank your standing with one faction, that doesn't mean that another will automatically pick you up as one of their own. I agree that a series of trials and tests of allegiance would be needed to really prove your worth to another nation. On the other hand, seeing as how we already have to work for faction, there might be a short 3-4 mission long tree to make the change a little shorter. Until the tree was run you wouldn't have the ability to say...purchase the other nation's specially designed ships (say your Serco, means no IBG, no X-1).
It's a good idea, but I see several problems that might arise. Should you raise your standing with more than one nation or faction then what filter should be applied to your channel 11, or IFF for example. Many players have more than one POS gold bar, which could complicate things.
Additionally, I agree with Rougelazer that if you tank your standing with one faction, that doesn't mean that another will automatically pick you up as one of their own. I agree that a series of trials and tests of allegiance would be needed to really prove your worth to another nation. On the other hand, seeing as how we already have to work for faction, there might be a short 3-4 mission long tree to make the change a little shorter. Until the tree was run you wouldn't have the ability to say...purchase the other nation's specially designed ships (say your Serco, means no IBG, no X-1).
I'm impressed, Leebs!
Impressed that I found the thread with the search function? Or impressed that I didn't start a whole new one?
LeberMac, I love your ideas about the faction. Its exactly what I would like to see in the Vendetta universe.