Forums » Suggestions
Waypoints
Have the feeling this is an old one, but this is really needed people. Its very annoying to be busy tring to find the right spot to get 3000 clicks away from something in order to jump.
So I say, waypoints, way to go!
So I say, waypoints, way to go!
It IS an old one, and if you search for a bit, you'll find out why THERE ARE NO WAYPOINTS HERE ON PURPOSE.
But there should be. Why? Because it's the far flung future, and high technology allows space travel, but for some reason doesn't allow you to remember it. It doesn't make sense.
This was taken out for a game mechanics reason, not an RP one as far as I know. People can use waypoints and make bots to trade for them while they sleep.
Which would be SWEET. The devs talked about being able to hire NPCs to trade for you, this is not much different.
I don't think it would be as much of a problem if you weren't able to directly access the data of the waypoints. That is to say, that you would have to do some serious reverse engineering to get to the information, which would be a violation of the EULA.
I know that you could get the data by image analysis, too, but that would take quite some effort, even though it might still be within the boundaries of legality.
Really, I still fail to see why there is any need to get so worked up about them. I say, if it's possible to shield the user's eyes from the direct info, waypoints ought to make it into the game.
Or, you could make it so that they have a limited lifespan. Say, 30 minutes if users remain in the sector, 15 or 10 if the sector is empty. Utilizability for bot-trading would be greatly decreased.
I know that you could get the data by image analysis, too, but that would take quite some effort, even though it might still be within the boundaries of legality.
Really, I still fail to see why there is any need to get so worked up about them. I say, if it's possible to shield the user's eyes from the direct info, waypoints ought to make it into the game.
Or, you could make it so that they have a limited lifespan. Say, 30 minutes if users remain in the sector, 15 or 10 if the sector is empty. Utilizability for bot-trading would be greatly decreased.
If they disappear after a while, then I think the point disappears with them.
How about doing some other artificial limit, like only having three per sector?
With Lua opening up in the (near?) future, waypoints will be the least of the devs worries as to safeguarding against illegal bots/"macroing".
How about doing some other artificial limit, like only having three per sector?
With Lua opening up in the (near?) future, waypoints will be the least of the devs worries as to safeguarding against illegal bots/"macroing".
Well, better to do the "opening up of Lua" NOW, before they start publicising this game. 'Cause most of us here will take advantage of an exploit for a day or two and then report it, worst case.
If they wait to open up the code when there are thousands of players, it'll be a security nightmare.
I don't mind macros. They can't prevent someone shooting at you and killing you. Seriously, if waypoints are introduced, I'll be taking ScurvyMac on regular tours of mining - and - trader space just to kill the macro-using players. Hell, I'm sure yoda will team up with me.
If they wait to open up the code when there are thousands of players, it'll be a security nightmare.
I don't mind macros. They can't prevent someone shooting at you and killing you. Seriously, if waypoints are introduced, I'll be taking ScurvyMac on regular tours of mining - and - trader space just to kill the macro-using players. Hell, I'm sure yoda will team up with me.
hell I'LL team up with you for that leber..
macro users are a serious irritant to me in any online game. as far as i'm concerned if you are to lazy to play your own game then you shouldnt get any in-game rewards from being logged on. :)
(personal beef from all the way back when UO was first out and all the good mining spots were always tapped out from macrominers)
macro users are a serious irritant to me in any online game. as far as i'm concerned if you are to lazy to play your own game then you shouldnt get any in-game rewards from being logged on. :)
(personal beef from all the way back when UO was first out and all the good mining spots were always tapped out from macrominers)
Hmm...A lot of frustration shows up. Ur all talking bout bouys/navpoints, Thatz not what I ment.
"The Waypoint ment was merely to direct one to a certain direction in a sector, just that (Really, like when you need to take the 3000 clicks before warping, to direct one into the right direction to fly).
People that played the Freelancer and Wing Commander Privateer series know what I am talking bout.
http://www.game7.de/048-freelancer/viewshot.php?view=2113&sid=6dff29cf8dfa3a46559dd3c89d56dcb9
Take a look at the screenshot (the purple indicator box in the middle is the waypoint).
"The Waypoint ment was merely to direct one to a certain direction in a sector, just that (Really, like when you need to take the 3000 clicks before warping, to direct one into the right direction to fly).
People that played the Freelancer and Wing Commander Privateer series know what I am talking bout.
http://www.game7.de/048-freelancer/viewshot.php?view=2113&sid=6dff29cf8dfa3a46559dd3c89d56dcb9
Take a look at the screenshot (the purple indicator box in the middle is the waypoint).
Yes. Waypoints should be like that. Simple symbols that you have to navigate to.
The problem is, you have to tell the client computer (the gamer) where the waypoint is relative to their position.
You can do that 2 ways:
1. Via a hard coordinate system (like, waypoint is at 12000 x, 2300 y, 810 z), broadcast it to the client computer and let the client code plot the waypoint location. This opens up ALL KINDS of bot-making opportunities. But it would not slow down the servers.
or
2. Via a relative coordinate system (like, waypoint is +8000 x, -600 y, +500 z , ASSUMING your ship is at 4000 x, 2900 y, 310 z). BUT, this would need to be done server-side and the calculations would slow everything down I think. But it would not open up as many security holes... or would it? I guess it would just be more work for the person making the "bot", to do 2 calculations every time instead of one.
I think that, speaking from an RP perspective, it's the 45th century and for Eo's SAKE, we should have galactic GPS that tells us everything about how to get from point A to point B, with automated assistants to get us there.
Speaking from an end-user, gamer's perspective, I really really really want to be able to plot as many waypoints/navigation beacons/buoys/whatever, and also to be able to share that info like extended GPS (i.e have the coordinates, who made the coordinates, and their comments about these coordinates, be able to leave small amounts of cargo in the buoys, and password-protect them if possible) We could have little treasure hunts like GPS clubs do now with "geocaching."
However, I can see the developers' viewpoint on this one. Providing any way to allow end-users to automate their characters (or their alts) detracts from the game. As it is now, there are just not enough good places to mine and trade, and if we someday have 1,000 (or 10,000!) users online, well, we're gonna have to increase the amount of available good mining roids by several orders of magnitude, and increase the economy through more and more traderoutes to capture.
In a way, NPC bots *DO* act as macrominers and macrotraders. They're easy pickings, and apparently they already TAKE trade missions offered in stations by deliverator, meaning that a player CANNOT take that mission now. (Right, Momerath?) Now if a station needs Pentric ore, I think soon that we'll see NPC miners heating up our favorite asteroids. If the players can get used to NPC bots and NPC traders/miners stealing their trade routes and heating up their asteroids, then there's no reason to ban macromining and macrotrading, and the developers should make waypoints available.
You all thought IGPK or RoidBoilers were bad - wait until the NPC's start mining activities.
And, yes, Spellcast, when/if players start making macros to do simple mining, I'm all for teaming up to make a [MS] guild - Macro Slayers. They'll patrol all of known space, killing the AFK amongst us. Muaahahaahahahaaa!
The problem is, you have to tell the client computer (the gamer) where the waypoint is relative to their position.
You can do that 2 ways:
1. Via a hard coordinate system (like, waypoint is at 12000 x, 2300 y, 810 z), broadcast it to the client computer and let the client code plot the waypoint location. This opens up ALL KINDS of bot-making opportunities. But it would not slow down the servers.
or
2. Via a relative coordinate system (like, waypoint is +8000 x, -600 y, +500 z , ASSUMING your ship is at 4000 x, 2900 y, 310 z). BUT, this would need to be done server-side and the calculations would slow everything down I think. But it would not open up as many security holes... or would it? I guess it would just be more work for the person making the "bot", to do 2 calculations every time instead of one.
I think that, speaking from an RP perspective, it's the 45th century and for Eo's SAKE, we should have galactic GPS that tells us everything about how to get from point A to point B, with automated assistants to get us there.
Speaking from an end-user, gamer's perspective, I really really really want to be able to plot as many waypoints/navigation beacons/buoys/whatever, and also to be able to share that info like extended GPS (i.e have the coordinates, who made the coordinates, and their comments about these coordinates, be able to leave small amounts of cargo in the buoys, and password-protect them if possible) We could have little treasure hunts like GPS clubs do now with "geocaching."
However, I can see the developers' viewpoint on this one. Providing any way to allow end-users to automate their characters (or their alts) detracts from the game. As it is now, there are just not enough good places to mine and trade, and if we someday have 1,000 (or 10,000!) users online, well, we're gonna have to increase the amount of available good mining roids by several orders of magnitude, and increase the economy through more and more traderoutes to capture.
In a way, NPC bots *DO* act as macrominers and macrotraders. They're easy pickings, and apparently they already TAKE trade missions offered in stations by deliverator, meaning that a player CANNOT take that mission now. (Right, Momerath?) Now if a station needs Pentric ore, I think soon that we'll see NPC miners heating up our favorite asteroids. If the players can get used to NPC bots and NPC traders/miners stealing their trade routes and heating up their asteroids, then there's no reason to ban macromining and macrotrading, and the developers should make waypoints available.
You all thought IGPK or RoidBoilers were bad - wait until the NPC's start mining activities.
And, yes, Spellcast, when/if players start making macros to do simple mining, I'm all for teaming up to make a [MS] guild - Macro Slayers. They'll patrol all of known space, killing the AFK amongst us. Muaahahaahahahaaa!
UBB tags don't work in VO boards, LeberMac.
clickable link:
http://www.geocaching.com/
Other than that, I'm all for what you said. Especially the MS guild, I could enjoy that.
clickable link:
http://www.geocaching.com/
Other than that, I'm all for what you said. Especially the MS guild, I could enjoy that.
I do geocaching with my dad!