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I was reading the Sense of Scale thread, and decided that something is wrong.
Capitol ships move too stinkin fast.
It's downright IMPOSSIBLE for noobs to dock with a HAC when it is moving at max speed.
I'm sure everyone here has seen Star Wars. Well, you know that feeling that you get when all of the fighters are zipping around the capitol ships, using the capitol ship as the only boundaries in space that there are? Well this is a sense of speed that we don't have in VO. Our light fighters just plain aren't fast. They go slow in RL and in relation to large ships. There isn't much maneuvering taking place around the HAC since its just so hard to keep it aligned with your movement.
I think that capitol ships should have a max speed of whatever they want.
Yet, they should take about 5 minutes to even reach 40 m/s. (without turbo, if they have that)
Capitol ships would be alot cooler as slowly moving static objects. (the big ones at least)
Now of course there's the Trident and such, and that's fine if it moves alot faster. But we need something like the HAC OR some other large ship to zoom around.
Maybe its just me tho, idk.
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Yea the 5 minutes is just for a super duperly large ship or something. Maybe more like 2 minutes, just so that its easy enough to keep up with the ship and fight around it. Basically I want the fights to be more localized. Unless we have 200 ppl in a sector, all fighting, its sparse. The VO movie was great and exciting because it was a group fighting a group. Not everyone breaking up and fighting individually like they usually do. I'm sure that's rather impossible to achieve but its kinda what I'm goin for. Ya kno?
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Capitol ships move too stinkin fast.
It's downright IMPOSSIBLE for noobs to dock with a HAC when it is moving at max speed.
I'm sure everyone here has seen Star Wars. Well, you know that feeling that you get when all of the fighters are zipping around the capitol ships, using the capitol ship as the only boundaries in space that there are? Well this is a sense of speed that we don't have in VO. Our light fighters just plain aren't fast. They go slow in RL and in relation to large ships. There isn't much maneuvering taking place around the HAC since its just so hard to keep it aligned with your movement.
I think that capitol ships should have a max speed of whatever they want.
Yet, they should take about 5 minutes to even reach 40 m/s. (without turbo, if they have that)
Capitol ships would be alot cooler as slowly moving static objects. (the big ones at least)
Now of course there's the Trident and such, and that's fine if it moves alot faster. But we need something like the HAC OR some other large ship to zoom around.
Maybe its just me tho, idk.
[edit]
Yea the 5 minutes is just for a super duperly large ship or something. Maybe more like 2 minutes, just so that its easy enough to keep up with the ship and fight around it. Basically I want the fights to be more localized. Unless we have 200 ppl in a sector, all fighting, its sparse. The VO movie was great and exciting because it was a group fighting a group. Not everyone breaking up and fighting individually like they usually do. I'm sure that's rather impossible to achieve but its kinda what I'm goin for. Ya kno?
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Naw Kix you have a point, even in a Rag or Cent its hard to dock with a capital ship, And I like the reference to starwars ^^.
Maybe not five minutes but I get the point your making that these ships should take a long time to get anywhere.
Maybe not five minutes but I get the point your making that these ships should take a long time to get anywhere.
Ok kix, sorry to break it to ya' but, HAC'S AND LARGE SHIPS ARE SUPPOSED TO BE FASTER.
Why? they have higher hull integredy so they can withstand higher speeds, and also have the room for the batterys and thrusters and stuff.
Just so you know, starwars is some aspects is "softcore" sci-fi (which is why it isn't on the sci fi channel ;) )
The big ships should have slow turning (unless they have huge thrusters on the sides.....) but fast acceleration for the inital burst (aka : they have to reach crusing speed's of around (making it so gains 15ms every 2 seconds...waiting a minute or two in a game isn't fun, man) 140ms before hitting turbo, which bumps em' up to +300ms
we still need a fighter that is made just for traveling/manning turrets.....
Why? they have higher hull integredy so they can withstand higher speeds, and also have the room for the batterys and thrusters and stuff.
Just so you know, starwars is some aspects is "softcore" sci-fi (which is why it isn't on the sci fi channel ;) )
The big ships should have slow turning (unless they have huge thrusters on the sides.....) but fast acceleration for the inital burst (aka : they have to reach crusing speed's of around (making it so gains 15ms every 2 seconds...waiting a minute or two in a game isn't fun, man) 140ms before hitting turbo, which bumps em' up to +300ms
we still need a fighter that is made just for traveling/manning turrets.....
Ah, but we're not aiming for 100% realism. It would be much more fun to have slow capships. Besides, according to most of the laws of physics that I know, a larger, heavier vessel would accelerate slower than a small, light vessel unless the thrust was proportional in increase to the mass. There aren't very many engine types that double in output when they double in size...
I know their supposed to be faster..... duh.
That's why I said they can be as fast as you want.
Just make 'em accelerate slowly so that they aren't ever effectively fast.
Besides I doubt that hull integrity is a problem when your going 60-90 m/s, and you can only accelerate slowly anyway.
That's why I said they can be as fast as you want.
Just make 'em accelerate slowly so that they aren't ever effectively fast.
Besides I doubt that hull integrity is a problem when your going 60-90 m/s, and you can only accelerate slowly anyway.
UmcCap ships are suppost to be fast??? Maybe a corvet or destroyer but a heavy cruiser should be fairly slow, well all of them should be slow when compaired to a light intercepter or even a heavy bomber for that matter. Sure they can have high top speeds but getting to that point should take so real effort on the part of the ships engines as there is a LOT of mass involved with a large ship. Even with gravidic drive systems. For making long range stratigic manuvers there should be some sort of FTL drive or sudo wormholes for insector jumps. They are large enough to have that size equipment are they not?
Thanks for hittin the nail on the head John.
first off, it's not that hard to dosck with a HAC. or to manuver with it. i've taken a free-bus and parked it in that crevas between the wing and the main hull before, and kept it there untill i got bored and decided to attack some turrets (again hugging the hull ata a distance of 10m (give or take depending on the HAC's manuvering at the time). additionaly what in the name Heavy Assault Crusier, inplies the HAC is designed to recover fighters during combat operations? dedicated cariers should have larger docking bays and would tend to manuver less.
that said, i agree that cap ships manujver too quickely. I think they should have very good main engins (turbo) but their manuvering engins and spin torque should be minimal. Ie they should have a top sub-turbo speed of arounf 40m/s.
or as an alternative i think it would be cool if larger cap ships could use their jump engins to travel within a sector (as long as they were clear of large objects when the activated it) and then not have much in the way of fast non-jump capability at all.
that said, i agree that cap ships manujver too quickely. I think they should have very good main engins (turbo) but their manuvering engins and spin torque should be minimal. Ie they should have a top sub-turbo speed of arounf 40m/s.
or as an alternative i think it would be cool if larger cap ships could use their jump engins to travel within a sector (as long as they were clear of large objects when the activated it) and then not have much in the way of fast non-jump capability at all.
"HAC'S AND LARGE SHIPS ARE SUPPOSED TO BE FASTER."
WHO GIVES A FUCK HOW FAST LARGE SHIPS ARE "SUPPOSED" TO BE?
Seriously... and who says they're supposed to be faster anyway? they're MASSIVE. Do you know how much energy it takes to accelerate something that massive? Yes, of course they'll have larger engines, but they're still remotely proportional to the ship itself.
The fact of the matter, is that from a gameplay perspective, the HACs are too bloody fast. You can't dock with them when they're moving, and trying to stay on a corner of the thing as it rotates is impossible. They need to be slowed down.
IMO, capships should be limited to 45 m/sec (just below the sub-turbo speed of a bus) when maneuvering. That would make it possible to match velocities while still maintaining control of your ship for support or docking. The HAC would of course have it's own turbo, which would be slightly slower than the average ship's turbo, for use in rapid redeployment, but when in combat, it should move slowly. Acceleration should also be slow, both at sub-turbo and turbo speeds - having that bigass chunk of heavily-armored hull shifting around jerkily as it changes direction is just not right.
...and with more emphasis on roll than pitch/yaw regarding in-combat rotational maneuvers.
And don't think for a minute of saying something to the effect of "BUT THAT'S TOO SLOW!" - suck it in and SHUT UP! It is by no means too slow, not even from an visual aesthetics perspective - they're big, and they SHOULD move slowly. VERY slowly.
PS. HAC and other capships need constant, low engine noise (for those people who DO want to defy physics for sound effects - the rest of you, go complain somewhere else and just assume that for now, I mean that you'd have an option to turn them off)
WHO GIVES A FUCK HOW FAST LARGE SHIPS ARE "SUPPOSED" TO BE?
Seriously... and who says they're supposed to be faster anyway? they're MASSIVE. Do you know how much energy it takes to accelerate something that massive? Yes, of course they'll have larger engines, but they're still remotely proportional to the ship itself.
The fact of the matter, is that from a gameplay perspective, the HACs are too bloody fast. You can't dock with them when they're moving, and trying to stay on a corner of the thing as it rotates is impossible. They need to be slowed down.
IMO, capships should be limited to 45 m/sec (just below the sub-turbo speed of a bus) when maneuvering. That would make it possible to match velocities while still maintaining control of your ship for support or docking. The HAC would of course have it's own turbo, which would be slightly slower than the average ship's turbo, for use in rapid redeployment, but when in combat, it should move slowly. Acceleration should also be slow, both at sub-turbo and turbo speeds - having that bigass chunk of heavily-armored hull shifting around jerkily as it changes direction is just not right.
...and with more emphasis on roll than pitch/yaw regarding in-combat rotational maneuvers.
And don't think for a minute of saying something to the effect of "BUT THAT'S TOO SLOW!" - suck it in and SHUT UP! It is by no means too slow, not even from an visual aesthetics perspective - they're big, and they SHOULD move slowly. VERY slowly.
PS. HAC and other capships need constant, low engine noise (for those people who DO want to defy physics for sound effects - the rest of you, go complain somewhere else and just assume that for now, I mean that you'd have an option to turn them off)
/me disagrees w/ zamzx zik. Larger ships, especially Capital Ships, should be much, much slower than all the 1 man fighters we've got right now. That may or may not be particularly realistic, but in the interests of gameplay I really think Capital Ships should be pretty slow.
Here's how I think it should be: once the Capital Ship control interface is finished & we start to have Cappies (both player & NPC controlled) flying around, most of the fighter class ships we currently have should have their jump & warp capabilities removed, so if they want to move to another sector or system they need to dock w/ a Cap Ship. Capital Ships should be very slow, but should have superior jump drives, that allow them to jump out of a system much closer to massive objects than smaller ships, say 500m (this would mean they could make an intra-system jump from within the warp area of a WH, so the control interface would need to differentiate between intra-system jumps and inter-system WH warps). Or maybe even remove the mass proximity limitation altogether, allowing Capital Ships to jump to a different sector from anywhere, possibly with a cool-down time after each jump, so they have to wait at least 30 seconds after each jump. This would remove the only real problem with having Cappies being slow: the time it takes to get out to jump range.
Here's how I think it should be: once the Capital Ship control interface is finished & we start to have Cappies (both player & NPC controlled) flying around, most of the fighter class ships we currently have should have their jump & warp capabilities removed, so if they want to move to another sector or system they need to dock w/ a Cap Ship. Capital Ships should be very slow, but should have superior jump drives, that allow them to jump out of a system much closer to massive objects than smaller ships, say 500m (this would mean they could make an intra-system jump from within the warp area of a WH, so the control interface would need to differentiate between intra-system jumps and inter-system WH warps). Or maybe even remove the mass proximity limitation altogether, allowing Capital Ships to jump to a different sector from anywhere, possibly with a cool-down time after each jump, so they have to wait at least 30 seconds after each jump. This would remove the only real problem with having Cappies being slow: the time it takes to get out to jump range.
>most of the fighter class ships we currently have should have their jump & warp
>capabilities removed
i don't know about that, i'd rather see a battery with huge capacity and no recharge, to encourage carier-based fighters than forcing most fighters to operate from a carier.
otherwis i'd tend to agree with your post beo
>capabilities removed
i don't know about that, i'd rather see a battery with huge capacity and no recharge, to encourage carier-based fighters than forcing most fighters to operate from a carier.
otherwis i'd tend to agree with your post beo
"most of the fighter class ships we currently have should have their jump & warp capabilities removed...
...Capital Ships should be very slow, but should have superior jump drives, that allow them to jump out of a system much closer to massive objects than smaller ships, say 500m... "
1) No.
Players should NEVER be dependant on capitol ships for transportation. EVER.
The introduction of specialized carrier-based fighters with a no-recharge battery would be fine, but they should be just that - a special case for deploying from and defending capships.
2) No.
If anything, capships should require MORE space to make a jump. 5000 meters would be a lot more reasonable than 500.
...Capital Ships should be very slow, but should have superior jump drives, that allow them to jump out of a system much closer to massive objects than smaller ships, say 500m... "
1) No.
Players should NEVER be dependant on capitol ships for transportation. EVER.
The introduction of specialized carrier-based fighters with a no-recharge battery would be fine, but they should be just that - a special case for deploying from and defending capships.
2) No.
If anything, capships should require MORE space to make a jump. 5000 meters would be a lot more reasonable than 500.
i'm with cunjo on this one
Cunjo,
the point of the super-jump was to compensate for the fact that cao ships can't move quickely over several systems.
otherwise they will take forever to get anywhere, especialy if they hit storms. they can't have a total top speed of 40m/s and still jave to get 3km from any asteroids to jump. it would just be too annoying.
the point of the super-jump was to compensate for the fact that cao ships can't move quickely over several systems.
otherwise they will take forever to get anywhere, especialy if they hit storms. they can't have a total top speed of 40m/s and still jave to get 3km from any asteroids to jump. it would just be too annoying.
LQ:
Capships don't NEED to move quickly over several systems - they're CAPITOL SHIPS! Capitol ships SHOULD take longer to deploy than fighters. The purpose of a capitol ship is NOT rapid deployment - that's what we have Hornets for.
Besides which, adding really unrealistic 'features' to powerful ships to 'fix' something that's not really broken anyway is STUPID.
If you would READ MY POST (do you understand English?) You would see that I said it would move at 45 m/sec SUB-TURBO SPEED. "SUB", as in "BELOW", meaning that 45 m/sec is the max speed it will move at when it's NOT TURBOING. When it is Turboing, it will go FASTER. Do you understand that much?
If yes, then hopefully you won't choke on this:
It will still not go as fast as a typical medium or heavy one-man frieghter turbo speed, but it could definately make the neighborhood of 150 m/sec (given a couple minutes of acceleration), which is MORE THAN FAST ENOUGH for a capitol ship.
And I said 5km, not 3km - their jump distance (and also radar range) should be longer, since they have such a dominant mass.
Annoying for who? the person piloting it? I seriously doubt having to travel slower is going to start pissing someone off who gets to pilot the damn thing.
Sit down and CHILL.
Capships don't NEED to move quickly over several systems - they're CAPITOL SHIPS! Capitol ships SHOULD take longer to deploy than fighters. The purpose of a capitol ship is NOT rapid deployment - that's what we have Hornets for.
Besides which, adding really unrealistic 'features' to powerful ships to 'fix' something that's not really broken anyway is STUPID.
If you would READ MY POST (do you understand English?) You would see that I said it would move at 45 m/sec SUB-TURBO SPEED. "SUB", as in "BELOW", meaning that 45 m/sec is the max speed it will move at when it's NOT TURBOING. When it is Turboing, it will go FASTER. Do you understand that much?
If yes, then hopefully you won't choke on this:
It will still not go as fast as a typical medium or heavy one-man frieghter turbo speed, but it could definately make the neighborhood of 150 m/sec (given a couple minutes of acceleration), which is MORE THAN FAST ENOUGH for a capitol ship.
And I said 5km, not 3km - their jump distance (and also radar range) should be longer, since they have such a dominant mass.
Annoying for who? the person piloting it? I seriously doubt having to travel slower is going to start pissing someone off who gets to pilot the damn thing.
Sit down and CHILL.
"Sit down and CHILL."
lol, that struck me as funny.
gp's Cunjo.
lol, that struck me as funny.
gp's Cunjo.
I agree with Cunjo. Capital ships should be slower then any smaller ships and have a slower turbo, and they should require a larger warping clearence since they are larger ships.
I also think that capital ship should be able to jump sector to sector without having to use wormholes(There large enough to fit a devices to create their own wormholes).Of course this should be given to the larger captial ships or the devs could create a capital ship with that as its special ability that only that ship has. When a capital ship creates a wormhole, it is open for anybody or a group that the capital ship picks to follow through. That way a group of fighters can follow the ship without having to be in its docking bay. This portal could remain open for 30 seconds
I also think that capital ship should be able to jump sector to sector without having to use wormholes(There large enough to fit a devices to create their own wormholes).Of course this should be given to the larger captial ships or the devs could create a capital ship with that as its special ability that only that ship has. When a capital ship creates a wormhole, it is open for anybody or a group that the capital ship picks to follow through. That way a group of fighters can follow the ship without having to be in its docking bay. This portal could remain open for 30 seconds
/me blows whistle at Cunjo
you, out of the gene pool.
seriously though:
yes Cunjo, i agree that cap ships should take some time to travel long distances, and that your perposal is a good one (if you look you'll see it is similar to my original sugestion).
however i think Beolach's idea regarding eliminating turbo and reducing the jump range limitations is an interesting alternitive. and besides the jump range doesn't have to be the 500m he sugested, personaly i think somwhere around 1.5-2km would be beter.
now regarding realisam:
capitle ships being bigger and having more powerfull generators would be more able to break free of the grvity-well caused by large objects
alternatively: having more room/power for advanced computers and sencores allows cap ships to plot a jump more acurately and they therefor can get closer to large objects without risking collision.
it all depends on the fictional physics of the VO universe. but there are plenty of reasons why cap ships could jump at closer range to large objects than fighters.
exDragon,
i have to disagree with your opinion regarding cap ships being able to form their own womeholes. the back-story doesn't mention anything that indicates araficial womeholes are possable. however it does inply that even if it is posable the technology to do so is not widely available if it even exists.
you, out of the gene pool.
seriously though:
yes Cunjo, i agree that cap ships should take some time to travel long distances, and that your perposal is a good one (if you look you'll see it is similar to my original sugestion).
however i think Beolach's idea regarding eliminating turbo and reducing the jump range limitations is an interesting alternitive. and besides the jump range doesn't have to be the 500m he sugested, personaly i think somwhere around 1.5-2km would be beter.
now regarding realisam:
capitle ships being bigger and having more powerfull generators would be more able to break free of the grvity-well caused by large objects
alternatively: having more room/power for advanced computers and sencores allows cap ships to plot a jump more acurately and they therefor can get closer to large objects without risking collision.
it all depends on the fictional physics of the VO universe. but there are plenty of reasons why cap ships could jump at closer range to large objects than fighters.
exDragon,
i have to disagree with your opinion regarding cap ships being able to form their own womeholes. the back-story doesn't mention anything that indicates araficial womeholes are possable. however it does inply that even if it is posable the technology to do so is not widely available if it even exists.
ExD:
Doesn't that break from the backstory continuity though? Wormholes are supposed to be static (or at least phased in place)... besides which, if we could create our own, why not just go back to earth?
LQ:
I'll start reading and considering your posts again when you start using proper spelling and grammar. Substanceless as your opinions are, they're not worth the effort to decipher.
Doesn't that break from the backstory continuity though? Wormholes are supposed to be static (or at least phased in place)... besides which, if we could create our own, why not just go back to earth?
LQ:
I'll start reading and considering your posts again when you start using proper spelling and grammar. Substanceless as your opinions are, they're not worth the effort to decipher.
LQ, might just be foreign though.
Not everyone has the gift of good grammar.
Not everyone has the gift of good grammar.