Forums » Suggestions
It's just been assumed that our ships are built in stations by robots or workers or something. We pays our money and we gets our ship. (And the larger question - Who builds the stations?)
What if we made shipbuilding (and stationbuilding) part of the crafting system?
I mean, what if players had skill not only in making items that go INTO ships, but they could craft the ships themselves?
I'm not talking about new designs. Use the same old ship designs, but you could have a high-quality ship or a low-quality ship based on a player's shipbuilding skill.
Would they be built in massive "Stardocks" like on the Star Trek movies? Or are they built in stations?
Since we seem to be examining a LOT of the economic and crafting underpinnings of this game right now, I thought this might be a relevant item to think about.
What if we made shipbuilding (and stationbuilding) part of the crafting system?
I mean, what if players had skill not only in making items that go INTO ships, but they could craft the ships themselves?
I'm not talking about new designs. Use the same old ship designs, but you could have a high-quality ship or a low-quality ship based on a player's shipbuilding skill.
Would they be built in massive "Stardocks" like on the Star Trek movies? Or are they built in stations?
Since we seem to be examining a LOT of the economic and crafting underpinnings of this game right now, I thought this might be a relevant item to think about.
Good thought, Lebermac... I think player crafted ships would be very interesting indeed. I remember the devs mentioning something about needing ore to build a cap ship, so this is probably the direction they want to head in. There are so many stats to each ship, the possible variants are endless. You have:
Thrust
Torque
Sub-turbo top speed
Mass
Turbo Thrust
Turbo Top Speed
Turbo Energy
Cargo
Armor
Perhaps player designed variants could follow a similar process to this: http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/11406?page=2#134897
using percentile trade-offs between these stats within given margins so that player designs are kept in check. Just an idea.
Also, the time and ore required to craft a ship would probably be a lot bigger than that needed to craft a weapon.
I'm still fairly hesitant about crafted items of varying quality because of what margoth calls "MUDflation"
Thrust
Torque
Sub-turbo top speed
Mass
Turbo Thrust
Turbo Top Speed
Turbo Energy
Cargo
Armor
Perhaps player designed variants could follow a similar process to this: http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/11406?page=2#134897
using percentile trade-offs between these stats within given margins so that player designs are kept in check. Just an idea.
Also, the time and ore required to craft a ship would probably be a lot bigger than that needed to craft a weapon.
I'm still fairly hesitant about crafted items of varying quality because of what margoth calls "MUDflation"
Yes. Implement your system of tradeoffs here as well. Perfect. Works for me.
What about stations, though? How would you start building a station?
Would you buy (or craft yourself) an (INCREDIBLY expensive) "Station Core" component that takes up 120 cu of space, transport it in your behemoth to the sector of space where you want it, "jettison it", and anchor it to that point?
Then add on materials to the station? Let's say it's not complete until it has a power source, a docking bay, a crew module, and a parts locker (or something).
AND - let's say the station is "destructible" until you reach a certain level of development. But once you reach the "minimum station requirements", the station becomes a REAL station, and is indestructible forever, unless the devs/guides have to move it or delete it.
I can see huge efforts at secrecy to build guild stations, and huge battles erupting if a fledgling station is discovered before it's complete. They will almost HAVE to be large-guild projects only.
What about stations, though? How would you start building a station?
Would you buy (or craft yourself) an (INCREDIBLY expensive) "Station Core" component that takes up 120 cu of space, transport it in your behemoth to the sector of space where you want it, "jettison it", and anchor it to that point?
Then add on materials to the station? Let's say it's not complete until it has a power source, a docking bay, a crew module, and a parts locker (or something).
AND - let's say the station is "destructible" until you reach a certain level of development. But once you reach the "minimum station requirements", the station becomes a REAL station, and is indestructible forever, unless the devs/guides have to move it or delete it.
I can see huge efforts at secrecy to build guild stations, and huge battles erupting if a fledgling station is discovered before it's complete. They will almost HAVE to be large-guild projects only.
To start a station you have to get a power core from your capital station, then you can bring in modular units like residental, manufacturing, research, docks (in/out), Solar Pannels, etc.
Is it worth wrapping station-crafting and ship-crafting into the overall game crafting engine?
Or is it too much work, leave it alone until the widget crafting is done?
Or is it too much work, leave it alone until the widget crafting is done?
Personally, I'd like to see widget crafting asap and have stations asap after that, anything big/new to the game to give it a new lease on life.
How are "mudflation" and crafted item quality related at all?
john: I think an EQUIPMENT PORT would give it that!
:P
:P
what the fuck does "mudflation" mean, that was totally random.
I'll take an equipment port, but that would mean they'd have to create a bunch of new items to go with the port. Otherwise your just shifting port designations around and not really adding anything at all the to game, and that's just as bad as a balancing update.
I'll take an equipment port, but that would mean they'd have to create a bunch of new items to go with the port. Otherwise your just shifting port designations around and not really adding anything at all the to game, and that's just as bad as a balancing update.
I think mudflation is explained pretty well here:
http://www.grimwell.com/?action=fullnews&showcomments=1&id=233
of course, this could be a really lousy description, because I don't really know what mudflation is either.
http://www.grimwell.com/?action=fullnews&showcomments=1&id=233
of course, this could be a really lousy description, because I don't really know what mudflation is either.
Excellent link, Harry.
Back in the prehistoric era known as the early 90's when MMOs were in the primordial soup stage, there were these unique little multiplayer text-based persistant RPG worlds called Multi User Dimensions (MUDs)....
Simply put, MUDflation just means that the more high powered items that are introduced into the game world, the less valuable they become, and the less cool you become if you don't have one.
Different games deal with this in different ways, sometimes limiting the number of such items in the game... meaning the only way to get another "sword of uberness" would be to kill another player who already had one. Others have these items degrade over time.
The thing about crafting is that it doesn't make sense to limit the number of "uber gauss cannons" that exist, since crafting another one would mean somebody's uber gauss cannon would disappear somewhere else in the world. So you have the potential for some wealthy, psychotic individual to sit down and do nothing but craft 10,000 uber gauss cannons, totally inflating the economy and de-valuing other weapons....
The weapons we have now are all fairly well balanced... but if I have the ability to introduce new, high-powered items into the game from a renewable source...
That's the potential problem in a nutshell. Anyway, read the link, it's a good one and goes into a little more depth.
Back in the prehistoric era known as the early 90's when MMOs were in the primordial soup stage, there were these unique little multiplayer text-based persistant RPG worlds called Multi User Dimensions (MUDs)....
Simply put, MUDflation just means that the more high powered items that are introduced into the game world, the less valuable they become, and the less cool you become if you don't have one.
Different games deal with this in different ways, sometimes limiting the number of such items in the game... meaning the only way to get another "sword of uberness" would be to kill another player who already had one. Others have these items degrade over time.
The thing about crafting is that it doesn't make sense to limit the number of "uber gauss cannons" that exist, since crafting another one would mean somebody's uber gauss cannon would disappear somewhere else in the world. So you have the potential for some wealthy, psychotic individual to sit down and do nothing but craft 10,000 uber gauss cannons, totally inflating the economy and de-valuing other weapons....
The weapons we have now are all fairly well balanced... but if I have the ability to introduce new, high-powered items into the game from a renewable source...
That's the potential problem in a nutshell. Anyway, read the link, it's a good one and goes into a little more depth.
OK so how about you can build a station BUT....
1) only you and your guild / nation / friends ? can access it
2) said station can only hold X amount of any give item ( iirc this is going to be implimented anyways for players storage )
3)this would mean that in effect you could have your own 'faction'
4) errrrr TBC
1) only you and your guild / nation / friends ? can access it
2) said station can only hold X amount of any give item ( iirc this is going to be implimented anyways for players storage )
3)this would mean that in effect you could have your own 'faction'
4) errrrr TBC
1) only you and your guild / nation / friends ? can access it
This would be along the lines of WoW's solution... of which I'm not a big fan personally. I don't think this would work too well in Vendetta's game economy... it would strangle trade between players rather than promote it. If you want your station to flourish you need to allow players to access it in order to trade and to accept missions.
Player stations are a whole new can of worms though... I'm speaking mostly in terms of player crafted weapons, equipment, and ships.
This would be along the lines of WoW's solution... of which I'm not a big fan personally. I don't think this would work too well in Vendetta's game economy... it would strangle trade between players rather than promote it. If you want your station to flourish you need to allow players to access it in order to trade and to accept missions.
Player stations are a whole new can of worms though... I'm speaking mostly in terms of player crafted weapons, equipment, and ships.
*WHEN* Players can control stations, I think allowing access to certain individuals should be controllable by the builders.
You can set stations to be accessible by:
◊ Just YOU, the builder. (Would be highly expensive to maintain, almost not worth it.)
◊ Members of "X" Guild. (Could be multiple guilds or just ONE guild)
◊ Members of "X" Nation. (Could be just Itani and UIT, or just UIT, or whatever.)
◊ Public access station
In addition, you could ban individual alts.
◊ Station ban list: tumblemonster, Borb II, Shape, Martin, Gavan
(I wonder how many stations Arolte would have been banned from? Perhaps this can be a "carrot" to maintain a level of conduct in VO)
It would be almost idiotic not to allow public access, due to the way in which players will soon be integral parts of the economy. However, I think that ITEMS in the station should have a limited buying audience. If bots cannot get into your station, then I think that it would be difficult to keep your station maintained, you or your guild would have to do EVERYTHING.
For example: The [SKV] guild builds a station in Deneb. They craft an improved Centurion light fighter that has far less armor but 20% more turn torque. When it comes time to make this available for sale, they have some settings that they can control, like...
◊ Item is not available for Serco nation purchasers
◊ Item requires Itani standing of +600
◊ Item costs 300% more for UIT nation purchasers
I still think that "twitch"-based crafting would be an EXCELLENT way to limit the creation of too many "uber" items, Phaser.
You can set stations to be accessible by:
◊ Just YOU, the builder. (Would be highly expensive to maintain, almost not worth it.)
◊ Members of "X" Guild. (Could be multiple guilds or just ONE guild)
◊ Members of "X" Nation. (Could be just Itani and UIT, or just UIT, or whatever.)
◊ Public access station
In addition, you could ban individual alts.
◊ Station ban list: tumblemonster, Borb II, Shape, Martin, Gavan
(I wonder how many stations Arolte would have been banned from? Perhaps this can be a "carrot" to maintain a level of conduct in VO)
It would be almost idiotic not to allow public access, due to the way in which players will soon be integral parts of the economy. However, I think that ITEMS in the station should have a limited buying audience. If bots cannot get into your station, then I think that it would be difficult to keep your station maintained, you or your guild would have to do EVERYTHING.
For example: The [SKV] guild builds a station in Deneb. They craft an improved Centurion light fighter that has far less armor but 20% more turn torque. When it comes time to make this available for sale, they have some settings that they can control, like...
◊ Item is not available for Serco nation purchasers
◊ Item requires Itani standing of +600
◊ Item costs 300% more for UIT nation purchasers
I still think that "twitch"-based crafting would be an EXCELLENT way to limit the creation of too many "uber" items, Phaser.
*bumping* for LostCommander
t3h flux capacitor
Idea:
Make 'inaccessible' stations bribable (yes, I know, ripoff... just bear with me). Some are unbribable (a 'Loved' Serco will never be able to Land on the core Itani worlds and vice versa), but this way you generally avoid the problem of a trading throttle. You could make the likeliness of a station to be bribed a function of the trade that goes in and out (small traffic volume: high probability, because they need everything they can get, large volume: low probability, because they can be haughty and tell you to sod off).
Make 'inaccessible' stations bribable (yes, I know, ripoff... just bear with me). Some are unbribable (a 'Loved' Serco will never be able to Land on the core Itani worlds and vice versa), but this way you generally avoid the problem of a trading throttle. You could make the likeliness of a station to be bribed a function of the trade that goes in and out (small traffic volume: high probability, because they need everything they can get, large volume: low probability, because they can be haughty and tell you to sod off).
Heh. I really like the "bribing" thing. Yeah, that ROCKS.
Mudflation and stations!
How many player-owned stations can be in a solar system? How will it look if there will be 1-2 stations in each sqare of the solar system? I think ugly. If devs decide to allow stations building then they should limit the number of stations.
Other question: will the license or rental for a station be same everywhere? The area close to hive will be invaded by high level (and rich!) players... so the rental should be higher than for the rental for "Willies Ship&Crew Refill Station" in a backwater area.
When I played BatMud, each high level player could build own castle. There were hundreds of castles in a tiny corner of the town. If you wanted to visit a friend then you entered the castle area and chose the coordinates of the castle: no environment, no streets - only a dot matrix of entrances. :(
Regards,
Darkwood
How many player-owned stations can be in a solar system? How will it look if there will be 1-2 stations in each sqare of the solar system? I think ugly. If devs decide to allow stations building then they should limit the number of stations.
Other question: will the license or rental for a station be same everywhere? The area close to hive will be invaded by high level (and rich!) players... so the rental should be higher than for the rental for "Willies Ship&Crew Refill Station" in a backwater area.
When I played BatMud, each high level player could build own castle. There were hundreds of castles in a tiny corner of the town. If you wanted to visit a friend then you entered the castle area and chose the coordinates of the castle: no environment, no streets - only a dot matrix of entrances. :(
Regards,
Darkwood
I still belive strongly that not everyone should be able to have a "station". Stations are large opperations that require resources from a lot of different places. They should be reserved for guilds only. With that said, I think that any individual should be able to pay rent or own a small section of a station that they are in ok to good standing in. And as far as having a station in every sector, that's just dumb, there should be more then one station in a sector, and there should be certain sectors that can't have any stations at all, either too remote or too dangerous. Since sectors are infinate space should not be an issue.