Forums » Suggestions
A thread for suggestions about the new hive/leviatin, pretty self explanitory
I'll toss a few out real fast.
1- change the asteroid ring to an actual sphere.. maybe like the old ice one in sector 14 of the alpha.. that should be big enough to house a good fight.. and making it out of ice would be easier to explain than the large chunks of rock appearing.
additionally having a sphere would make the turbo through and drop swarms on the turrets tactic much harder.
2- triple, maybe even quadruple the hitpoints on the leviathin itself, it dies too easy IMO
3- give its escort bots a operating radius so they cant be drawn off and spaced. maybe 2 sets of escorts.. 1 group that doesnt leave the inner ring (they wont follow anyone not inside the asteroids?), and another group that will patrol the outside up to 4 KM away, but not enter the asteroids themselves.
I'll toss a few out real fast.
1- change the asteroid ring to an actual sphere.. maybe like the old ice one in sector 14 of the alpha.. that should be big enough to house a good fight.. and making it out of ice would be easier to explain than the large chunks of rock appearing.
additionally having a sphere would make the turbo through and drop swarms on the turrets tactic much harder.
2- triple, maybe even quadruple the hitpoints on the leviathin itself, it dies too easy IMO
3- give its escort bots a operating radius so they cant be drawn off and spaced. maybe 2 sets of escorts.. 1 group that doesnt leave the inner ring (they wont follow anyone not inside the asteroids?), and another group that will patrol the outside up to 4 KM away, but not enter the asteroids themselves.
I think most of the hitpoints get taken from the leviathan by bots ramming into it and our broken collision damage model. So we should fix that too.
The problem with setting a fighting radius on the bots, right now, is that you can keep them at the border, constantly turning around deciding whether or not to fight you. So we need to add a "back off while firing at target" action to do it right, which is in the works.
The problem with setting a fighting radius on the bots, right now, is that you can keep them at the border, constantly turning around deciding whether or not to fight you. So we need to add a "back off while firing at target" action to do it right, which is in the works.
Not ice roids like old s14, that sector murdered my FPS.
Also, another suggestion I said ingame is that of artificial ion storms made by the hive around the borders of the stronghold for added protection.
Also, another suggestion I said ingame is that of artificial ion storms made by the hive around the borders of the stronghold for added protection.
but if they can make ion storms why can't we make anti ion storms...
have you ever tried to stop a sand storm?
I always thought ion storms were a by product of lots of traffic. Sorta like acid rain. Ion storms always seem to enjoy popping up where I keep flying back and forth through.
And speaking about AI, I still sometimes hear an explosion outside of stations, a piece of scrap metal from whence it came, and a new station guard undocking.
I always thought ion storms were a by product of lots of traffic. Sorta like acid rain. Ion storms always seem to enjoy popping up where I keep flying back and forth through.
And speaking about AI, I still sometimes hear an explosion outside of stations, a piece of scrap metal from whence it came, and a new station guard undocking.
You're right, Fnugget. The loading screen tips tell us "Ion storms made their first appearance in the Dau system in AD 3785, after the inception of the modern jump engine. They have since become commonplace in every known system."
I don't want to be a shrill critic here, but does the lev model strike anyone else as being a bit too cartoonish to find in space? Many of the current models in VO already are like that (the Trident, the vulture, hornet, most/all bot models, etc.). Could we get something that looks more organic but less insectoidish? Perhaps the leviathan could be more of a space station stronghold that organically encompasses several of the asteroids--kinda like the old sec7 station. Collector bots (or even a new class of builder bots) could be adding modules and repairing old ones with their repair (constructor) beams. A giant, iron space worm wiggling around asteroids sounds a little bit too Cartoon Networkish. Anyways, food for thought.
You know, SirCamps, I was about to mention the same thing but I didn't want to offend any of the devs. But now that you mention it I thought I'd throw in my support too. I also think that it's a bit farfetched to have these mechanical robots imitate the looks of an insect. I can understand the reasoning behind the behavior of the hive, for survival reasons, but do you really think the whole centipede look is efficient for the environment they're in? I seriously doubt it.
In all honesty I miss the old alien ships (furies?). Granted they don't really fit in the storyline or anything, BUT you have to admit they looked pretty damn cool (even if they were a bit on the cliche side). Personally I'd rather be fighting a fearful and mysterious group of organic alien ships. Not some robots that are trying too hard to look like Mothra. But whatever. I can overlook things like that. Because the game is still so much damn fun.
Now, if the current (actually outdated) player-controlled ship designs follow the same path of appearing cartoonish/silly later on... I'll have to throw a tantrum. A lot of the current ships need to be redesigned, yes, but I just hope they won't follow the same path as the hive ships. Something with a more serious/military/sleek fighter design would be preferable.
The Hornet is a perfect example of a plausible air-space amphibious fighter. Designs like that would kick ass. Wingless designs like the Prometheus is even more plausible, especially with the visible maneuvering thrusters planted throughout the ship's body. But see, none of these examples are cartoonish. They actually look "serious" and plausible, in my opinion. And that's the kind of thing I'm hoping to look forward to.
In all honesty I miss the old alien ships (furies?). Granted they don't really fit in the storyline or anything, BUT you have to admit they looked pretty damn cool (even if they were a bit on the cliche side). Personally I'd rather be fighting a fearful and mysterious group of organic alien ships. Not some robots that are trying too hard to look like Mothra. But whatever. I can overlook things like that. Because the game is still so much damn fun.
Now, if the current (actually outdated) player-controlled ship designs follow the same path of appearing cartoonish/silly later on... I'll have to throw a tantrum. A lot of the current ships need to be redesigned, yes, but I just hope they won't follow the same path as the hive ships. Something with a more serious/military/sleek fighter design would be preferable.
The Hornet is a perfect example of a plausible air-space amphibious fighter. Designs like that would kick ass. Wingless designs like the Prometheus is even more plausible, especially with the visible maneuvering thrusters planted throughout the ship's body. But see, none of these examples are cartoonish. They actually look "serious" and plausible, in my opinion. And that's the kind of thing I'm hoping to look forward to.
ok, having had some time to think about it..
first, i kind of agree with camps and arolte.. The hive is a bit.. ummm silly. Maybe it will be more interesting once the leviathan is segmented properly and can move.
Secondly, there were a lot of extra ice roids in s-14 that weren't part of the spere, All that the hive would need was the sphere itself, maybe retextured a bit to cut the framerate hit down. It makes more sense for the leviathan to be able to formulate a shell of ice from the aquean ore than it does for a ring of xithricite asteroids to just appear in a sector that was empty the day before.
regardless, a ring of asteroids doesn't provide any real protection from attack, a sphere with no direct path straight through does, as it forces the ship to maneuver as it makes the attack, no constant turbo.
a few new ideas...
-How about some station modules with turrets that are attached directly to the asteroids or ice roids of the fortress.. both on the inner and outer sides to provide additional firepower.
-Within a few hours of the fortress forming, smaller "sub-fortresses" should appear in each sector around the fortress. These should consist of say, 2 special queens and their defenders. the special queens would have a beam turret or two on thier backs and generate some form of ion storm like effect (maybe green not blue to signify that its artifical??)
attacking a sub-fortress would have the same result as a attacking a bastion.. kill a queen and the remaining bots retreat to the fortress, causing the ion effect to dissapate.
In the event that the leviathan takes more than 50% damage, the sub-fortresses would be abandoned, and all the bots would return to help defend the leviathan, making it prudent to clear out at least a few of the subfortresses before making the final raid.
first, i kind of agree with camps and arolte.. The hive is a bit.. ummm silly. Maybe it will be more interesting once the leviathan is segmented properly and can move.
Secondly, there were a lot of extra ice roids in s-14 that weren't part of the spere, All that the hive would need was the sphere itself, maybe retextured a bit to cut the framerate hit down. It makes more sense for the leviathan to be able to formulate a shell of ice from the aquean ore than it does for a ring of xithricite asteroids to just appear in a sector that was empty the day before.
regardless, a ring of asteroids doesn't provide any real protection from attack, a sphere with no direct path straight through does, as it forces the ship to maneuver as it makes the attack, no constant turbo.
a few new ideas...
-How about some station modules with turrets that are attached directly to the asteroids or ice roids of the fortress.. both on the inner and outer sides to provide additional firepower.
-Within a few hours of the fortress forming, smaller "sub-fortresses" should appear in each sector around the fortress. These should consist of say, 2 special queens and their defenders. the special queens would have a beam turret or two on thier backs and generate some form of ion storm like effect (maybe green not blue to signify that its artifical??)
attacking a sub-fortress would have the same result as a attacking a bastion.. kill a queen and the remaining bots retreat to the fortress, causing the ion effect to dissapate.
In the event that the leviathan takes more than 50% damage, the sub-fortresses would be abandoned, and all the bots would return to help defend the leviathan, making it prudent to clear out at least a few of the subfortresses before making the final raid.
That was my first impression.
A space wars cartoon.
Does the shape serve a purpose?
They are robots, and they wouldn't be building things in a certain shape just to be creative.
Sorry to give so much flak, because I know a tremendous amount of work went into it, which I do appreciate,
But I feel it kinda of hinders the whole environment of a tense outer space war.
I think Arolte stated it perfectly.
A space wars cartoon.
Does the shape serve a purpose?
They are robots, and they wouldn't be building things in a certain shape just to be creative.
Sorry to give so much flak, because I know a tremendous amount of work went into it, which I do appreciate,
But I feel it kinda of hinders the whole environment of a tense outer space war.
I think Arolte stated it perfectly.
I also really like Spellcast's ideas of the sub fortresses.
make the red parts glow
In the deffence of the centapied shape i have this to say:
The leviathins build the hive queens right?
so has anyone conciderd exaxtly how it does this? A queen is too large to come out of a bay of come sort on the leviathin, so maybee the leviathin curls up, and uses it's "legs" as scafolding when it's constructing a queen.
Now as for my sugestions regarding the Hive i general:
1. I think queens need to be more dangerous in general. I'v e heard there are people who can kill the 10 they need for the queen badge in a couple of houres, less if they don't have to replenish their funds. I would recomend that a Queen's main weapon be replaced with a beam cannon (so it will liik like an Uber mining beam) and that they have 2 or 3 gattling turrets moiunted on their back somwhere, so as to provide cover from the rear and dorsal areas.
2. I definately agree thet the roid field needs to be a sphear, but to explain the apperence of the roids i would sugest that there be a period where queens spaun out beyond the jump in points towing roids into place. Another side effect of a sphere is it would prevent capitle ships from efectivly attacking the leviathin, they would have to deploy fighters rather than manuver into the roid sphear.
The leviathins build the hive queens right?
so has anyone conciderd exaxtly how it does this? A queen is too large to come out of a bay of come sort on the leviathin, so maybee the leviathin curls up, and uses it's "legs" as scafolding when it's constructing a queen.
Now as for my sugestions regarding the Hive i general:
1. I think queens need to be more dangerous in general. I'v e heard there are people who can kill the 10 they need for the queen badge in a couple of houres, less if they don't have to replenish their funds. I would recomend that a Queen's main weapon be replaced with a beam cannon (so it will liik like an Uber mining beam) and that they have 2 or 3 gattling turrets moiunted on their back somwhere, so as to provide cover from the rear and dorsal areas.
2. I definately agree thet the roid field needs to be a sphear, but to explain the apperence of the roids i would sugest that there be a period where queens spaun out beyond the jump in points towing roids into place. Another side effect of a sphere is it would prevent capitle ships from efectivly attacking the leviathin, they would have to deploy fighters rather than manuver into the roid sphear.
Personally... when I read the description of the Leviathan... I never thought of a giant centipede...
It's a nice idea... and I do appreciate how much work has gone into it... but... *agrees with Arolte*
And to Lord Q's point... those legs don't look very effective as scaffolding mechanisms... I'd think a Giant Dragonfly would be more reasonable... but yeah... that's probably just me.
It's a nice idea... and I do appreciate how much work has gone into it... but... *agrees with Arolte*
And to Lord Q's point... those legs don't look very effective as scaffolding mechanisms... I'd think a Giant Dragonfly would be more reasonable... but yeah... that's probably just me.
I really don't care how the ships look. The whole game is fake (science-fiction, emphasis on the fiction), there's no way to make it not feel that way, so I don't think it's worth the effort to try to make super realistic looking ship models. Also, I agree w/ Lord Q, the Leviathan curling up as it constructs the Queens is a reasonable explanation for its appearance.
Anyway, here's some thoughts I've had on the Hive. I haven't actually seen the Leviathan yet, but from what I've heard it uses beam weapons, like the HAC does. I was actually rather disappointed when I heard that, because one of the loading screen tool tips says "AI hive queens are particularly adept at scavenging technology and integrating it into their own designs. Thus, while the queens cannot design new armaments, they've borrowed from 200 years of human innovation." I thought it would be cool if there were a few weapons that the Hive didn't have access to, and beam weapons was at the top of my list. What I think would be cool is if the Hive started out without beam weapons, but if it ever destroyed a HAC or something else that had beam weapons, then the Hive could scavenge the technology and start producing beam weapons of its own. That would give even more incentive to players not to let their cap ships get destroyed by the Hive. [edit] The Hive currently doesn't use rails, missiles, or rockets; they also could be weapons that the Hive doesn't start out with, and could acquire by scavenging from ships that had used them that the Hive had destroyed. [/edit]
Also as I was thinking about that loading screen tip, I thought it would be really cool if the different factions had active arms research & development going on, with new & improved weapons being developed, that would be better than what the Hive had, until the Hive destroyed & scavenged the new weapons. The Hive's threat would be from its mass production of hive bots, rather than superior weaponry. But active R&D in weapons would be very difficult to implement, especially considering the balance complications that would be inherent to it. [edit] But, without some type of R&D in weapons, eventually the Hive would catch up, which would remove what I think would be an interesting aspect of the Hive. [/edit]
Anyway, here's some thoughts I've had on the Hive. I haven't actually seen the Leviathan yet, but from what I've heard it uses beam weapons, like the HAC does. I was actually rather disappointed when I heard that, because one of the loading screen tool tips says "AI hive queens are particularly adept at scavenging technology and integrating it into their own designs. Thus, while the queens cannot design new armaments, they've borrowed from 200 years of human innovation." I thought it would be cool if there were a few weapons that the Hive didn't have access to, and beam weapons was at the top of my list. What I think would be cool is if the Hive started out without beam weapons, but if it ever destroyed a HAC or something else that had beam weapons, then the Hive could scavenge the technology and start producing beam weapons of its own. That would give even more incentive to players not to let their cap ships get destroyed by the Hive. [edit] The Hive currently doesn't use rails, missiles, or rockets; they also could be weapons that the Hive doesn't start out with, and could acquire by scavenging from ships that had used them that the Hive had destroyed. [/edit]
Also as I was thinking about that loading screen tip, I thought it would be really cool if the different factions had active arms research & development going on, with new & improved weapons being developed, that would be better than what the Hive had, until the Hive destroyed & scavenged the new weapons. The Hive's threat would be from its mass production of hive bots, rather than superior weaponry. But active R&D in weapons would be very difficult to implement, especially considering the balance complications that would be inherent to it. [edit] But, without some type of R&D in weapons, eventually the Hive would catch up, which would remove what I think would be an interesting aspect of the Hive. [/edit]
It was cool being buzzed by all those observers, but they are a little pointless. It would be cooler, and more dangerous, if they were like mini-seekers, tho not quite as insane, maybe 2000 damage. The Worm could spawn them at a set rate whenever some are destroyed!
/me steals & alters simondearsley's suggestion, combining it with his...
How about, after the first time the Hive attacks a station, and encounters the seekers in the station's SF, then it can start producing its own version of seekers? But for the observers, I'd rather they didn't act like seekers, their purpose is to observe, not seek and destroy.
How about, after the first time the Hive attacks a station, and encounters the seekers in the station's SF, then it can start producing its own version of seekers? But for the observers, I'd rather they didn't act like seekers, their purpose is to observe, not seek and destroy.
Oh god, please no more aerna seekers. They're annoying as it is already. PLEASE!!!
/me rolls into the fetal position and cries uncontrollably
/me rolls into the fetal position and cries uncontrollably
I'm not getting the direction of the hive.
It's obvious that the amount of bots in the Leviathan's sector is too overwhelming, even for a group. The only viable tactic is to jump in, unload all your ammo, and jump out.
I think the fight would be much more satisfying if you could get a group together go in fighting, and not have to retreat.
The way it stands now any noob could kill a leviathan with enough time/money, much like the queen.
While the bombing runs are obviously a good tactic, I wish there was an alternative.
I don't know many other games that let you leave the battle, repair/rearm and then rejoin the fight with the enemy damaged.
I would suggest making the leviathan sector much more like a linear game. You go in you kill all it's minions, and only then does the Leviathan "wake up" at which point it spawns an ion storm with no exit (and no entrance for other players). then there could be a 30 minute time limit to kill it before it spawns a wave of bots.
I just think that would be much more fun than everyone taking turns with rocket rags.
It's obvious that the amount of bots in the Leviathan's sector is too overwhelming, even for a group. The only viable tactic is to jump in, unload all your ammo, and jump out.
I think the fight would be much more satisfying if you could get a group together go in fighting, and not have to retreat.
The way it stands now any noob could kill a leviathan with enough time/money, much like the queen.
While the bombing runs are obviously a good tactic, I wish there was an alternative.
I don't know many other games that let you leave the battle, repair/rearm and then rejoin the fight with the enemy damaged.
I would suggest making the leviathan sector much more like a linear game. You go in you kill all it's minions, and only then does the Leviathan "wake up" at which point it spawns an ion storm with no exit (and no entrance for other players). then there could be a 30 minute time limit to kill it before it spawns a wave of bots.
I just think that would be much more fun than everyone taking turns with rocket rags.
*counters cam a bit*
I know that one tactic worked extremely well against the Leviathan:
get a bunch of guys (we'll say 5 for simplicities sake), jump in, and get one or two guys to distract all the bots, and run away. In the meantime, you get the other guys who are in Sunflare and Megaposi rags to slip in under the Leviathan, and proceed to blast away. This worked great on a leviathan the other night, and I know that I was sitting underneath that thing blasting it for a full five minutes or more without any hint of bot attacks.
Overall, Cam is right though. It's too easy to get in and get out. Getting in and being able to hang around is critical, because it's fun to do so. Getting in, killing/being killed in a matter of a minute (assuming you're making a strafing run, and not backrolling), if you're lucky, is no fun.
I know that one tactic worked extremely well against the Leviathan:
get a bunch of guys (we'll say 5 for simplicities sake), jump in, and get one or two guys to distract all the bots, and run away. In the meantime, you get the other guys who are in Sunflare and Megaposi rags to slip in under the Leviathan, and proceed to blast away. This worked great on a leviathan the other night, and I know that I was sitting underneath that thing blasting it for a full five minutes or more without any hint of bot attacks.
Overall, Cam is right though. It's too easy to get in and get out. Getting in and being able to hang around is critical, because it's fun to do so. Getting in, killing/being killed in a matter of a minute (assuming you're making a strafing run, and not backrolling), if you're lucky, is no fun.