Taken from: http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/1/10687

Thought this deserved its own thread.

Renegade ++RIP++:


Well in stead of making a ship like the cent have infiniboost what about a fast moving ship with no weaponports? Since a scout is a scout right? He is there to check stuff out, not fight. Also give it like 0 -1 cargospace and like a infiniturbo of 300. Hull like one of the aerna seekers.

Heck give me an aerna seeker as scoutship :D.

Phaserlight:

Rene: Well in stead of making a ship like the cent have infiniboost what about a fast moving ship with no weaponports? Since a scout is a scout right? He is there to check stuff out, not fight. Also give it like 0 -1 cargospace and like a infiniturbo of 300. Hull like one of the aerna seekers.

This is too drastic. What about a centurion variant with 240 m/s infiniboost, no weapon ports, 3 cargo space, and 6500 armor?

Renegade ++RIP+++

phaser...

I object, have you seen the guides move in that little zippy thing... I want to have one too...

And as long as it has no weaponports nor has any cargoports we aren't hurting anyone with its creation. Heck prolly most people would not even bother buying it. And it would fortify the idea about different ships :D and a speciality.

Besides its not like you can really use its advantage that notoriously... most warpholes are very short making the speed at which you top out practically of 0 importance, since iy only matters another 2 seconds.

cheers

LeberMac:

Some wormhole distances are over 10,000 m, Rene.
That's why people used the Cent Mk2 for the long-distance Deneb run race. 230 m/s was not the fastest, but on the average, the infiniboost capabilities were FAR more important than a high top speed.

In Yoda's defense, it's REALLY hard to stop a behemoth with a pilot who knows what he/she is doing. Warp into the WH sector, wait for FC batt to recharge, aim nose at WH, BOOST, hit activate when you reach WH, laugh at pirates. You'd need I estimate about 4 folks with heavy missile ships to bring down an undamaged 'moth.

I still like my IDF Valk methinks. Since there's no reason to use the NON-Infiniboost Rune Valk.

Renegade ++RIP+++:

the point is leber,

what is the hurt in creating a ship with no weaponports, no cargoports and that speed, heck give it 3k hull for all i care. But the point is, it is a scout. it offers a quick survey of a sector, a quick exit even. But it is not unbalanced since practically nobody is going to use it to haul cargo, to fight people and get out. Sorry but I really don't see the problem in the creation of it. Its not like it is a ubercent with uberdodgingcapabilities while being able to whittle a person down...

Besids those are some sectors, I was speaking about the majority of sectors. On all my trips there were like 8 or 10 sectors with alonger distance then 5k (make that it is like 2 - 5% of all the sectors).

Beside it was logical why infiniboost was more important then being the fastest. Since the difference between infiniboost and topspeed is so little (240 max, 230 infini). Put a ship with 190 infiniboost and a ship with 240 maxpeed (like the valk) beside each other, i'm sure that we can say that the infiniboost is then not the winner...

LeberMac:

Oh, I think you are right, Rene. No harm in having a Personal Transport Ship (The PST or PTS or whatever.)

Consider this, a 5000 distance to a WH.
A Moth and a new Cent MK2 (55 drain?) show up and just to make things fair, wait until their batteries recharge.
The moth hits turbo and with its accel to 190 m/s, it is probably at the WH in like 30 secs. (NO, I'm not gonna do the math with the acceleration.)
The Cent 2 hits turbo, it travels faster, perhaps reaching the WH in about 25 secs, but by the time it hits the WH, it's battery is half-drained and it must wait 2.5 secs for the battery to recharge in order to enter the WH. That's a gain of a mere 2.5 secs, which is completely eliminated with a few rounds fired off.

So in certain cases, even a FAST ship with only a 55 drain cannot outrun a moth, depending on what your motives are. Just racing? The smaller ship will win. Trying to destroy the moth? No way.

I'll miss my Valk Rune because it was easy to get around in space with an infiniboost fighter. But the IDF Valk is almost as good now.

Phaserlight:

[quote]what is the hurt in creating a ship with no weaponports, no cargoports and that speed, heck give it 3k hull for all i care. But the point is, it is a scout. it offers a quick survey of a sector, a quick exit even. But it is not unbalanced since practically nobody is going to use it to haul cargo, to fight people and get out. Sorry but I really don't see the problem in the creation of it. Its not like it is a ubercent with uberdodgingcapabilities while being able to whittle a person down...[/quote]

It is uber though... it could get around the universe faster than any other ship. People would only use these ships to travel from point A to point B unless they were on a combat or trade mission.

If you're going to have a consistent universe it doesn't make sense to have one ship with performance so drastically different from all the others. As a matter of fact, I wouldn't even like to see a 240 m/s infiniboost. I don't think there should be any ship capable of infiniboosting faster than 180 m/s, but that's just me.

A ship capable of traveling 300 m/s indefinitely is just insane. Sure it would be fun, but it would wreck the game balance.

The Noid:

[quote]If you're going to have a consistent universe it doesn't make sense to have one ship with performance so drastically different from all the others.[/quote]

What's inconsistent about that?
don't you agree that a F1 car has a drastic difference in performace when compared to a MAC truck? Or a van? or a SUV? or a mini?
All cars with a drastically different performance, that excell at their specific use.

Nya13:

i am agree with "Phaserlight"

<< I don't think there should be any ship capable of infiniboosting faster than 180 m/s, but that's just me >>

you are not alone :-)

the current 200 infiniboost is "correct"
all depend. (i but i really think 180 is the most correct)

that make hard for pirates to attack Traders w/o tactic only!

once they are in fight it's very difficult to get away from a light ship.

yodaofborg:

To steal a quote :
[quote]If you're going to have a consistent universe it doesn't make sense to have one ship with performance so drastically different from all the others.[/quote]

We could all fly round in ec88 with free gun, and then there is PvP heaven, this is a RPG game with real time combat in making.

IE, you get better levels, you get better stuff.

I'm sorry, i have taken a pre pre balance SC prom out in a cent mk2, it just requires a real boring tactict is all, and takes time, and a lot of dodging.

And more to come soon no doubt =P

Renegade ++RIP+++:

Nya,

please read again and try to understand what I wrote... how can a ship with 3k hull, 0 weaponports, 0 cargoports be a threat to a trader or a fighter? Please explain that to me and if you have due cause i'll change my point of view.

Or if you prefer it in french, and I'll excuse myself for my horrible french:

Comment est ce qu'on peut dire qu'un vaisseau spatial avec 3000hp, aucune porte de cargaison, aucune porte d'arme est pas balancé? Est ce que tu vas l'utiliser pour liquider mon moth? Si tu peut m'expliquer pourquoi tu trouve ca pas toutes a fait en balance je vas changer mon opinion. Mais pas si tous que tu écrit est irrelevant sur mon proposition...

cheers

Phaserlight:

[quote]don't you agree that a F1 car has a drastic difference in performace when compared to a MAC truck? Or a van? or a SUV? or a mini?
All cars with a drastically different performance, that excell at their specific use.[/quote]

I'll grant you that, but we're not talking a MAC truck and a F1 car here... we're talking two different models of a cent.

It's not that I even have a problem with a ship traveling 300 m/s. I have a problem with a ship that travels 300 m/s indefinitely.

First, all engines in VO seem to generally follow this tradeoff: High top speed or effecient energy usage. A 300 m/s engine that had only 50 energy drain goes against this rule. There's nothing else like it in the game.

Second, the reason this would upset balance is because people would use it to go *everywhere.* It would *half* the time it takes to get from one end of the universe to the other.

couldnt that have all been one post?

hey the first post is a good idea, no weapon ports, no cargo hold, maybe a permanent mineral scanner attached (no modding). that would be a great scout ship for checking on mining spots or just incase they nerf the /explode command, it would be a great way to get to another station to pick up the ship you want.

my 2 c.

kernel.panic

I'll grant you that, but we're not talking a MAC truck and a F1 car here... we're talking two different models of a cent.

Who said it *had* to be a cent?

First, all engines in VO seem to generally follow this tradeoff: High top speed or effecient energy usage. A 300 m/s engine that had only 50 energy drain goes against this rule. There's nothing else like it in the game.
But we've also seen a cent mk2 with both a high topspeed and an efficient engine. It just lacked in all other departments.
I don't see a problem with a 3000 armour, 0 cargo, 0 weapons, low torque, 300 turbo infiniboost scout. It's just a cockpit on a rocket, nothing more.

So long as it can't kill things by ramming them at 300+m/s I'm all for the 3000kg, 0 cargo, 0 weapons, 1 permanent sensor pocket rocket too.

I don't see why it shouldn't be able to ram things. But honestly, what are you going to be able to hit with that thing besides a cap ship or a queen? With a properly low mass on the ship, it won't do much more than spread the scoutship's pilot over a very large surface area.

The centII was just fine the way it was (with infibost). well... it was just fine as a scout, it sucked as a dog fighter.

Long Range Scout:
infiniboost
cargo of 1 or more (special deliveries)
1 small port (minerial scanner, etc..)
220+ turbo
0.4+ thrust/weight ratio
availability at every station. (like centI)

and i don't care if it has any armor or not.

What if there was a "scout battery" that could be earned at TL 5?

It could have 55 recharge, and 110 energy. It would be great for jumping, but it would suck for energy loadouts, and it would give some of the cents infiniturbo back again.

I don't want a cent with infiniboost. Not ot mention that it would still not counter the option of putting a rocket on it and still making it a rathe rperfect chasing ship.

Heh imagine a prom mk2 with such a battery... it would gain energy as it travelled in stead of losing it.