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Ship Roles & Weapon ports
Ship Roles & Weapon Ports
I think it’s a tad bit odd right now that it’s possible to load Swarms into the same port that a AGT would go in. It just doesn’t make sense to me. It also doesn’t make sense that even trade ships can kill combat ships, and that ships like the Behemoth are so darned fast. Here are my thoughts...
I think it is neccecary to group ships (I'll get into weapons ports in a minute) into two categories: Combat, and Trading.
In addition, these could be split up further:
Combat:
Bomber: Takes on capital ships, Queens, etc. Vulnerable to interceptors because of size and speed
Interceptor: Fast, maneuverable, but can't hold much at all
Space Superiority Fighter: All around good ship, holds a good deal, but isn't as strong against specific things like the interceptor or bomber
Heavy Fighter: Holds lots of guns, can't maneuver particularly well, but is good for taking out ships at range and for being able to withstand some punishment.
Captial ship, Frigate, Blockade Runner, etc: to be implemented, so I won't bother (for now)
Cargo ships:
Fast Blockade runner ship: Fast, holds a fair bit, and has decent armor. Has a few guns for deterrent
Massive cargo hauler: Behemoth, but with less thrust, and generally slower. Cargo ships shouldn't be fast. At all. Lots of armor, squat for speed.
Midsize trade ship: Kinda like the Centaur is now.
(I'm not saying we should only have 3 ships for trade...but they ought to be more or less grouped into these catagories)
In terms of weapon ports, I think that it would be far more realistic if ships had dedicated ports for certain types of weapons, such as Small Guns, Large Guns, Small Missiles/Rockets, Medium Missiles/rockets and Large missiles/rockets.
Before you start flaming me for suggesting something that would so obviously throw off balance, hear me out:
It’s unrealistic to be able to fit a Chaos in the same port as a Gatling Turret, or that a trade ship would be manufactured with agressive combat in mind. This would also open up practical use of a bunch of more unused weapons if we had more slots to use weapons with, particularly if their weight was decreased (or is already light)
Example
Cent IBG:
2 S(weapons) ports
1 S(missile) port
Most of the S missiles would currently fall into the M (medium) catagory,
but a few particularly light ones, such as my proposed Stiletto missile would be capable of being loaded into this port:
500 damage
0 proximity, detonation on contact
No splash
ROF: 4 shots per second
250m/s speed
40 missiles per port
lifetime: 2.5s
delay: 0.1 s
In addition, other heavier ships would be able to carry heavier missiles, while the heaviest missiles/weaponry would be reserved for heavier ships, like the Rag, Prom, perhaps versions of the Warthog, Centaur (flavors of this only, certainly not the trade-dedicated ones), and such.
I understand that the devs have put a lot of time and effort into making the current system work, and I understand that a game oftentimes takes a long time to fuly develop. However, because ships are SO customizable, I think that certain limitations on what ships can do currently are needed. Currently, a Atlas can take out a Warthog, which is just wrong.
In many other games, a Rock-Paper-Scissors system is the basis for most combat, and it has worked very well for years. While Rock (Hornet) usually doesn’t beat Scissors (Rev C), there can be exceptions simply because of excellent piloting, or stealth, or a number of other things. Currently, it’s possible to be a good fighter against many ships, even in a Atlas (!)
Anyways, I’m likely to get shot down, and I can certainly understand why, but I just thought I’d put this out there for thought. Even if one part isn’t specifically to your liking, doesnt mean the whole thing is flawed, especially in the case of the game itself.
I think it’s a tad bit odd right now that it’s possible to load Swarms into the same port that a AGT would go in. It just doesn’t make sense to me. It also doesn’t make sense that even trade ships can kill combat ships, and that ships like the Behemoth are so darned fast. Here are my thoughts...
I think it is neccecary to group ships (I'll get into weapons ports in a minute) into two categories: Combat, and Trading.
In addition, these could be split up further:
Combat:
Bomber: Takes on capital ships, Queens, etc. Vulnerable to interceptors because of size and speed
Interceptor: Fast, maneuverable, but can't hold much at all
Space Superiority Fighter: All around good ship, holds a good deal, but isn't as strong against specific things like the interceptor or bomber
Heavy Fighter: Holds lots of guns, can't maneuver particularly well, but is good for taking out ships at range and for being able to withstand some punishment.
Captial ship, Frigate, Blockade Runner, etc: to be implemented, so I won't bother (for now)
Cargo ships:
Fast Blockade runner ship: Fast, holds a fair bit, and has decent armor. Has a few guns for deterrent
Massive cargo hauler: Behemoth, but with less thrust, and generally slower. Cargo ships shouldn't be fast. At all. Lots of armor, squat for speed.
Midsize trade ship: Kinda like the Centaur is now.
(I'm not saying we should only have 3 ships for trade...but they ought to be more or less grouped into these catagories)
In terms of weapon ports, I think that it would be far more realistic if ships had dedicated ports for certain types of weapons, such as Small Guns, Large Guns, Small Missiles/Rockets, Medium Missiles/rockets and Large missiles/rockets.
Before you start flaming me for suggesting something that would so obviously throw off balance, hear me out:
It’s unrealistic to be able to fit a Chaos in the same port as a Gatling Turret, or that a trade ship would be manufactured with agressive combat in mind. This would also open up practical use of a bunch of more unused weapons if we had more slots to use weapons with, particularly if their weight was decreased (or is already light)
Example
Cent IBG:
2 S(weapons) ports
1 S(missile) port
Most of the S missiles would currently fall into the M (medium) catagory,
but a few particularly light ones, such as my proposed Stiletto missile would be capable of being loaded into this port:
500 damage
0 proximity, detonation on contact
No splash
ROF: 4 shots per second
250m/s speed
40 missiles per port
lifetime: 2.5s
delay: 0.1 s
In addition, other heavier ships would be able to carry heavier missiles, while the heaviest missiles/weaponry would be reserved for heavier ships, like the Rag, Prom, perhaps versions of the Warthog, Centaur (flavors of this only, certainly not the trade-dedicated ones), and such.
I understand that the devs have put a lot of time and effort into making the current system work, and I understand that a game oftentimes takes a long time to fuly develop. However, because ships are SO customizable, I think that certain limitations on what ships can do currently are needed. Currently, a Atlas can take out a Warthog, which is just wrong.
In many other games, a Rock-Paper-Scissors system is the basis for most combat, and it has worked very well for years. While Rock (Hornet) usually doesn’t beat Scissors (Rev C), there can be exceptions simply because of excellent piloting, or stealth, or a number of other things. Currently, it’s possible to be a good fighter against many ships, even in a Atlas (!)
Anyways, I’m likely to get shot down, and I can certainly understand why, but I just thought I’d put this out there for thought. Even if one part isn’t specifically to your liking, doesnt mean the whole thing is flawed, especially in the case of the game itself.
this goes totally against the "skill" part of being good, versus the "equipment" part of being good. While equipment does make a difference, one of the refreshing things about this game is knowing that you can beat a prom in a bus. Ok so that is an extreme example, but you get my point.
But it doesn't get rid of the entire skill factor, but it does put an emphasis on forethought and makes it so that you have to accomodate your ship's style of flying, rather than just doing whatever you like. Besides, the FPS mentality is just reinforced by the current ports/ships system. These modification make you do several things:
1. Be Prepared™
2. Be able to fight using various weapons, and
3. Anticipate techniques
In fact, it requires that you be *more skillful* to be able to fight with certain ships. Honestly, people with high level characters who start new ones will always be able to kill people.
I think this would add more realism and immersion to the game, because of the forethought that would have to go into fighting, trading, etc.
1. Be Prepared™
2. Be able to fight using various weapons, and
3. Anticipate techniques
In fact, it requires that you be *more skillful* to be able to fight with certain ships. Honestly, people with high level characters who start new ones will always be able to kill people.
I think this would add more realism and immersion to the game, because of the forethought that would have to go into fighting, trading, etc.
Ship roles will appear more as the larger ships are put in. Our small trader ships (that even includes Behemoth, if you remember its initial release news message) are supposed to be able to defend against pirates and traders. I suspect the devs will make the larger ones require cooperation with escorts and or turret gunners.
I don't know about your gripe about swarm missiles taking place in same ports as AGT's. I find that as a large scale application of the idea of interchangeable parts. What great engineers the scientists of the VO universe are!
Keep in mind that all of our ships are of the smallest size. Even the SCP is labeled as a light bomber somewhere.
I don't know about your gripe about swarm missiles taking place in same ports as AGT's. I find that as a large scale application of the idea of interchangeable parts. What great engineers the scientists of the VO universe are!
Keep in mind that all of our ships are of the smallest size. Even the SCP is labeled as a light bomber somewhere.
I don't know about your gripe about swarm missiles taking place in same ports as AGT's. I find that as a large scale application of the idea of interchangeable parts. What great engineers the scientists of the VO universe are!
Yes, sure, why shouldn't parts be interchangable? However, to be able to change them instantly? No. This falls under crafting, IMO.
I understand that all our ships are small-ish. However, the way that it looks the game is going, we'll get more ships, and we'll get capital ships, etc.
However, why we don't already have more defined combat ship roles is kinda odd. I'm all for customizability, and I don't really mind that we can fit both an AGT and Swarms in the same slot. But I do see this as making everything too "equal", and the extremes in combat are seized upon for an advantage against everything. As Dark_Phoenix said in another thread:
sounds like the idea has potential, people always talk about balance, but in reality balance isn't the problem (me thinks) its the tactics. I feel like there is only 1 type of fighter that works (and isn't shunned) the agile dodging ship, with somewhat light weapons. Heavy weapons tend to be useless or uber, and heavy ships get torn apart, so everyone flies the same ships. Adding some additional parameters like with this idea about the short range fighters in addition to other variations could finally make VO have specialized fighter types.
Yes, sure, why shouldn't parts be interchangable? However, to be able to change them instantly? No. This falls under crafting, IMO.
I understand that all our ships are small-ish. However, the way that it looks the game is going, we'll get more ships, and we'll get capital ships, etc.
However, why we don't already have more defined combat ship roles is kinda odd. I'm all for customizability, and I don't really mind that we can fit both an AGT and Swarms in the same slot. But I do see this as making everything too "equal", and the extremes in combat are seized upon for an advantage against everything. As Dark_Phoenix said in another thread:
sounds like the idea has potential, people always talk about balance, but in reality balance isn't the problem (me thinks) its the tactics. I feel like there is only 1 type of fighter that works (and isn't shunned) the agile dodging ship, with somewhat light weapons. Heavy weapons tend to be useless or uber, and heavy ships get torn apart, so everyone flies the same ships. Adding some additional parameters like with this idea about the short range fighters in addition to other variations could finally make VO have specialized fighter types.
This has been asked for several times and from the sound of it, is not a priority. This falls under the catagory, IMO, of part of the conversion from being a PVP_FPS to a more MMORPG style game, which is slow going, but making it's way at a snails pace.
Rock-Paper-Scissors is for RTS imho. The principle is not adapted to a FPS oriented game when you cannot rely on thousands on players to compensate the weaknesses of a given ship.
what does that mean? RTS?? this makes no sense!
what does that mean? RTS?? this makes no sense!
I for one am curious where johnhawl got that last quote from.
And yes, Rock-paper-scissors has been applied to many space simulation games, and I don't see a reason for it to be different here. FPS, Space Simulation, and RTS are 3 entirely different genres.
And yes, Rock-paper-scissors has been applied to many space simulation games, and I don't see a reason for it to be different here. FPS, Space Simulation, and RTS are 3 entirely different genres.
somone removed there post that's wher ethe quote came from, all I was asking was what RTS means, I don't understand that acronym.
RTS = "Real-Time Strategy" Think warcraft, starcraft, etc.
FPS = "First Person Shooter" Doom, Half-life 2
RPG = "Role-playing Game" KOTOR2, WoW etc...
FPS = "First Person Shooter" Doom, Half-life 2
RPG = "Role-playing Game" KOTOR2, WoW etc...
overkill but thanks
Rock-Paper-Scissors is for RTS imho. The principle is not adapted to a FPS oriented game when you cannot rely on thousands on players to compensate the weaknesses of a given ship.
This is completely contrary to the truth. Rock-Paper-Scissors has been used in countless games, and is being used heavily in the upcoming game Starcraft: Ghost, a FPS. In addition, Rock-Paper-Scissors has been used in every space simulation I can think of, with one exception: Vendetta Online. Our Rock-Paper-Scissors system is *very* weak. In fact, I would say that it's nearly non existant.
This is completely contrary to the truth. Rock-Paper-Scissors has been used in countless games, and is being used heavily in the upcoming game Starcraft: Ghost, a FPS. In addition, Rock-Paper-Scissors has been used in every space simulation I can think of, with one exception: Vendetta Online. Our Rock-Paper-Scissors system is *very* weak. In fact, I would say that it's nearly non existant.
ha... just make the big ships slower and the small ships quicker... that will help a little in the mean time before actual revisions can take place. just my thoughts.