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Soon, however, they will learn the tricks. They will become less prone to dying stupidly.
Of this I have seen absolutely no evidence.
Of this I have seen absolutely no evidence.
I think thats leebs version of trollin Lecter.
"Everything Leebs said."
Agreed-ish, up to last paragraph.
Agreed-ish, up to last paragraph.
Tumblykins said: The problem with your message leebs is that the most skilled combat pilots become pirates 9 out of 10 times.
Well, true, mainly because most of the old vets/skilled pilots have done everything else, and the only thing that keeps them involved in the game is the next fight. They tend to hang out where most of the fighting occurs (Sedina B-8) and eventually they tend to buddy up with a pirate or two... and before you know it, they're taking escort missions just to pop the behemoths and killing players on the side when the chance presents itself. Violence, robbery and crimes of opportunity, lead to the dark side these do, eh, yoda? >:P
Soon, however, they will learn the tricks. They will become less prone to dying stupidly.
-- Of this I have seen absolutely no evidence. Lecter said.
True, it does appear the the current crop of new players are fairly empty-headed when it comes to group organization, or showing an aptitude for learning the intricacies of the game, or devising strategies for self-preservation.
I mean, the choice is simple when a new player is confronted by a pirate: Pay 100,000 credits and ONLY make 100,000 on your cargo run, or don't pay, fail the mission, lose your ship AND pricey cargo. To be honest, I'm surprised that tumble hasn't rolled out his "protection" program again. You got good coverage with only a little weekly investment.
Perhaps I'm partially at fault for proudly broadcasting my "I'll never pay pirates!" screed. Perhaps some of the newer players latched onto this and said "Look! This drunken idiot thumbs his nose at them, SURELY I can do it as well!" What they don't know is that I:
a) Play about once or twice a month so it's hard for pirates to work themselves up into a frenzy about me and my big mouth on constantly yapping
b) Have not been seen trading in a Behemoth since John Kerry was busy losing the presidential election (well, not ENTIRELY true, but pretty much so)
c) Have about as many hours ingame as the rest of these pirates, much more than some, and know most of the tricks that they do. Even if I don't take advantage of some of the things I consider hacks.
d) really Really REALLY don't care much about losing 20 fights in a row if the fights are fun, although winning does seem to make the game MORE fun.
Perhaps the conflict is more about expectations. I mean, if you expect A and get B, you're unhappy. I think the new players expect something more like EVE where you're super-safe until you venture into lowsec space, and by that time you've wasted a realtime year of your life doing useless grinding bullshit before you can have your first PvP fight. It needs to be made clear to them that there is NO SAFE HAVEN in VO. If you leave a station, you must be prepared for non-consensual exploding every second that you aren't actually docked, inside a station. I don't think this is clear to them.
These days, the first encounter with a new player and a pirate is usually a hail, a confused exchange of instant messages, a horribly skewed under-appreciation of how much BETTER at this the pirates are, an attempt to run, and then the eventual separation of the newb pilot's body into its component molecules.
Then comes the shocking realization by the newb that "OMG! I've been KILLED by another player, who is probably selling all my loot as I speak!" Sometimes they wait a bit and then try the exact same thing, which has predictable consequences. Sometimes they launch in the best combat ship (Vult Mk. I) they can obtain and try to exact their revenge, and of course they die again. Sometimes they log off and expect different treatment under a different alt/alias.
Perhaps part of "The Christmas Truce" should be an emphasis that there is no safe haven in Vendetta, so that the newbs understand that space is dangerous, grayspace very much moreso. If they EXPECT to have to run from/pay pirates every time they try to trade, then perhaps they won't whine as much.
Well, true, mainly because most of the old vets/skilled pilots have done everything else, and the only thing that keeps them involved in the game is the next fight. They tend to hang out where most of the fighting occurs (Sedina B-8) and eventually they tend to buddy up with a pirate or two... and before you know it, they're taking escort missions just to pop the behemoths and killing players on the side when the chance presents itself. Violence, robbery and crimes of opportunity, lead to the dark side these do, eh, yoda? >:P
Soon, however, they will learn the tricks. They will become less prone to dying stupidly.
-- Of this I have seen absolutely no evidence. Lecter said.
True, it does appear the the current crop of new players are fairly empty-headed when it comes to group organization, or showing an aptitude for learning the intricacies of the game, or devising strategies for self-preservation.
I mean, the choice is simple when a new player is confronted by a pirate: Pay 100,000 credits and ONLY make 100,000 on your cargo run, or don't pay, fail the mission, lose your ship AND pricey cargo. To be honest, I'm surprised that tumble hasn't rolled out his "protection" program again. You got good coverage with only a little weekly investment.
Perhaps I'm partially at fault for proudly broadcasting my "I'll never pay pirates!" screed. Perhaps some of the newer players latched onto this and said "Look! This drunken idiot thumbs his nose at them, SURELY I can do it as well!" What they don't know is that I:
a) Play about once or twice a month so it's hard for pirates to work themselves up into a frenzy about me and my big mouth on constantly yapping
b) Have not been seen trading in a Behemoth since John Kerry was busy losing the presidential election (well, not ENTIRELY true, but pretty much so)
c) Have about as many hours ingame as the rest of these pirates, much more than some, and know most of the tricks that they do. Even if I don't take advantage of some of the things I consider hacks.
d) really Really REALLY don't care much about losing 20 fights in a row if the fights are fun, although winning does seem to make the game MORE fun.
Perhaps the conflict is more about expectations. I mean, if you expect A and get B, you're unhappy. I think the new players expect something more like EVE where you're super-safe until you venture into lowsec space, and by that time you've wasted a realtime year of your life doing useless grinding bullshit before you can have your first PvP fight. It needs to be made clear to them that there is NO SAFE HAVEN in VO. If you leave a station, you must be prepared for non-consensual exploding every second that you aren't actually docked, inside a station. I don't think this is clear to them.
These days, the first encounter with a new player and a pirate is usually a hail, a confused exchange of instant messages, a horribly skewed under-appreciation of how much BETTER at this the pirates are, an attempt to run, and then the eventual separation of the newb pilot's body into its component molecules.
Then comes the shocking realization by the newb that "OMG! I've been KILLED by another player, who is probably selling all my loot as I speak!" Sometimes they wait a bit and then try the exact same thing, which has predictable consequences. Sometimes they launch in the best combat ship (Vult Mk. I) they can obtain and try to exact their revenge, and of course they die again. Sometimes they log off and expect different treatment under a different alt/alias.
Perhaps part of "The Christmas Truce" should be an emphasis that there is no safe haven in Vendetta, so that the newbs understand that space is dangerous, grayspace very much moreso. If they EXPECT to have to run from/pay pirates every time they try to trade, then perhaps they won't whine as much.
I don't think it's just the safety issue. Rather, the reason they refuse to pay when faced with the prospect of loss is that they're offended at the notion that another player might be profiting off them. If it was an NPC asking for 50k or else they'd lose 100k of ship and cargo, I have no doubt that they'd pay and carry on.
Many of these guys, however, seem to regard all non-consensual interactions, but especially piracy, as a form of harassment/griefing. They're trading, they don't want to be subject to combat, and they're indignant that someone is violating that sense of "I'm doing something else now!" Thus, since they don't want to give the offending player any credits for their behavior, and death has no meaning in VO, they opt for an "irrational" choice and give the finger to people they know full well will kill them if not paid.
I'm happy to keep offending these pissants -- and I will go out of my way to do so -- but they bore me.
Many of these guys, however, seem to regard all non-consensual interactions, but especially piracy, as a form of harassment/griefing. They're trading, they don't want to be subject to combat, and they're indignant that someone is violating that sense of "I'm doing something else now!" Thus, since they don't want to give the offending player any credits for their behavior, and death has no meaning in VO, they opt for an "irrational" choice and give the finger to people they know full well will kill them if not paid.
I'm happy to keep offending these pissants -- and I will go out of my way to do so -- but they bore me.
Problem solved. Devs! Put an asterisk in front of all of our names and force change them to randomized names. You can pass us off as highly intelligent AI! Yarrr!
I'd like to be "*Arklan Guardian AK-7154" I will hang out in ion storms and seriously scare the crap outta people.
Thank You.
Thank You.
I don't think it's just the safety issue. Rather, the reason they refuse to pay when faced with the prospect of loss is that they're offended at the notion that another player might be profiting off them. If it was an NPC asking for 50k or else they'd lose 100k of ship and cargo, I have no doubt that they'd pay and carry on.
I haven't seen much evidence to suggest that. I've had multiple newbs ignore my hails, only to message me (after I suggest that they "shoulda paid" on 100) that they ignored me because they "thought I was an NPC". I think the real problem is that they 1) expect to be invincible and 2) get so offended by the fact that they aren't that any logical ability they may possess shuts down permanently after they're unexpectedly killed for the first time.
I haven't seen much evidence to suggest that. I've had multiple newbs ignore my hails, only to message me (after I suggest that they "shoulda paid" on 100) that they ignored me because they "thought I was an NPC". I think the real problem is that they 1) expect to be invincible and 2) get so offended by the fact that they aren't that any logical ability they may possess shuts down permanently after they're unexpectedly killed for the first time.
That may be true as an initial matter, ladron, but once they figured out that there were NPC pirates roaming around, they'd just pay if they couldn't escape and carry on. Maybe they'd make a suggestion that they not charge so much or be so numerous or whatever... but you wouldn't see the same "BOOM ME ALL U WANT I NEVA PAY U GRIEFRZ!!11" attitude time and time again.
Sometimes for no reason ill kill someone without warning.
then when they're stunned and start complaining on 100 I dont speak or respond to anyone the whole time.
Then to really aggravate them I'll take off when they try to get their revenge kill so their defeat is never satisfied.
then when they're stunned and start complaining on 100 I dont speak or respond to anyone the whole time.
Then to really aggravate them I'll take off when they try to get their revenge kill so their defeat is never satisfied.
Some quite possible improvement, very easy to implement:
1) Pirates do not state price on hail. And deal a price compatible with pilot/ship/cargo. If Im newbie, poor, on a empty 3Kc and a pirate asks me 100Kc, there is no talking possible... 100Kc is nothing to a veteran, but a fortune to a newbie!
2) Slightly change on tutorials, to repeat many times that gray is dangerous, and why. Crate some monsters on closet. But that's where candies are.
3) A new obligatory tutorial that every newbie should take before allowed trade 1 license is a pirate handling tutorials, like three steps mission, spawning a bot as simulated pirate. On 1st pilot must PAY, second must EVADE, third must KILL. A smarter bot, but with training lasers.
I am working on a mission like this... And make very clear, this was a bot to simulate, next, will be a real pilot. And some text explaining how to join convoys and require escorts.
--> More complex ones:
4) Adding guild to name also would help, as suggested.
5) Non-lethal piracy scheme (disable/etc), as suggested.
1) Pirates do not state price on hail. And deal a price compatible with pilot/ship/cargo. If Im newbie, poor, on a empty 3Kc and a pirate asks me 100Kc, there is no talking possible... 100Kc is nothing to a veteran, but a fortune to a newbie!
2) Slightly change on tutorials, to repeat many times that gray is dangerous, and why. Crate some monsters on closet. But that's where candies are.
3) A new obligatory tutorial that every newbie should take before allowed trade 1 license is a pirate handling tutorials, like three steps mission, spawning a bot as simulated pirate. On 1st pilot must PAY, second must EVADE, third must KILL. A smarter bot, but with training lasers.
I am working on a mission like this... And make very clear, this was a bot to simulate, next, will be a real pilot. And some text explaining how to join convoys and require escorts.
--> More complex ones:
4) Adding guild to name also would help, as suggested.
5) Non-lethal piracy scheme (disable/etc), as suggested.
Crate some monsters on closet. But that's where candies are.
I find your suggestion fascinating; please, tell me more.
I find your suggestion fascinating; please, tell me more.
I think what he wants is for us to stand on a closet (well, he probably meant wardrobe) and put monsters in crates, possibly while eating candy. Sounds fun, but not really suitable for a space-based mmorpg...
I think it's "tell the newbies that there are monsters in the dark area... but the dark area also has high rewards."
Aka, "dangerous but lucrative"
But yah... PCC is already working on a tutorial that does this. "Intro to the Universe" does a decent job, but it isn't mandatory (it should be), and the warnings are a dash too weak IMO.
For the record, a mission where a newbie is forced to pay a pirate to win the mission will never make it into the game, and if by some odd luck it does, it will never be mandatory. Give the newbie options. If he gets killed and fails, that's his problem, but the mission should not fail upon lack of payment. But as I said, we're already working on this. Feel free to contribute to the active thread on the PCC forum... don't make a "competing" tutorial (I've already got a well-written script on the boards, do check them).
Aka, "dangerous but lucrative"
But yah... PCC is already working on a tutorial that does this. "Intro to the Universe" does a decent job, but it isn't mandatory (it should be), and the warnings are a dash too weak IMO.
For the record, a mission where a newbie is forced to pay a pirate to win the mission will never make it into the game, and if by some odd luck it does, it will never be mandatory. Give the newbie options. If he gets killed and fails, that's his problem, but the mission should not fail upon lack of payment. But as I said, we're already working on this. Feel free to contribute to the active thread on the PCC forum... don't make a "competing" tutorial (I've already got a well-written script on the boards, do check them).
For the record, a mission where a newbie is forced to pay a pirate to win the mission will never make it into the game, and if by some odd luck it does, it will never be mandatory.
Wrong. I suggested earlier that it be a mandatory mission for leaving Nationspace and could be done in the manner of "We want you to go to X sector in Latos. You may encounter privateers, so here's 10,000 credits of ransom money in case you need to pay your way," followed by an NPC rat demanding 10,000 credits passage fee.
Wrong. I suggested earlier that it be a mandatory mission for leaving Nationspace and could be done in the manner of "We want you to go to X sector in Latos. You may encounter privateers, so here's 10,000 credits of ransom money in case you need to pay your way," followed by an NPC rat demanding 10,000 credits passage fee.
Wrong. I suggested earlier that it be a mandatory mission for leaving Nationspace and could be done in the manner of "We want you to go to X sector in Latos. You may encounter privateers, so here's 10,000 credits of ransom money in case you need to pay your way," followed by an NPC rat demanding 10,000 credits passage fee.
It seems you have failed to see the distinction between your suggesting something and it being introduced into the game.
However, I do have less of a problem with giving the newb the money to pay the ransom, though I still think the newb should have the option to attempt to escape or kill the npc rat (though such an attempt would most likely fail... the npc should be a good one). If a newb were to survive without paying, they'd have to give the money back to whoever gave it to them at the end of the mission, therefore practicing using the /givemoney command.
Actually... that's a damned good idea. /me heads over to the PCC forum.
It seems you have failed to see the distinction between your suggesting something and it being introduced into the game.
However, I do have less of a problem with giving the newb the money to pay the ransom, though I still think the newb should have the option to attempt to escape or kill the npc rat (though such an attempt would most likely fail... the npc should be a good one). If a newb were to survive without paying, they'd have to give the money back to whoever gave it to them at the end of the mission, therefore practicing using the /givemoney command.
Actually... that's a damned good idea. /me heads over to the PCC forum.
If a newb were to survive without paying, they'd have to give the money back to whoever gave it to them at the end of the mission, therefore practicing using the /givemoney command.
Indeed, I like it.
Indeed, I like it.
Brb, gonna write the mission Lecter suggested (well, after I finish my work over here.)
Boring do nothing PCC forum posts are nice, but action is better
Go Chaosis go!
Go Chaosis go!