Forums » General

Thoughts on L-mining Stations?

Jul 07, 2007 Martin link
I'm curious to hear what other people think of this and if anyone has any thoughts on making it more sensible. I don't mind L-mining of stations (having done it on regular occasions) but I also think it gets a bit ridiculous sometimes. It's one of those things, like crackbotting, that just feels totally out of place in the game.

My preferred option is, when you die, all your mines should disappear. This would still allow some L-mining of stations but not to a ridiculous level. It would also allow players to remove your L-mines by killing you.

Another option is faction loss if you kill station guards, maybe 25 points or so in Corvus. Then you'd have to be careful not to go overboard L-mining or Corvus will start costing you lots and removing weapon and ship options.
Jul 07, 2007 slime74 link
Jul 07, 2007 jexkerome link
It's an allowed part of the game and a valid tactic; DR-wise it's forbiden, but you cannot regulate players' action. The problem I have with l-mining stations is that it's buggy and you don't get penalized for killing someone inside a NFZ with them, so the SF never comes after you, you can still dock, etc. If they fix that I won't have any issues with it at all.
Jul 07, 2007 incarnate link
We've had a ticket open on this for about eight months. Unfortunately, in that time Andy's been up to his ears in the fixing of deliverator and the creation/debugging of Kourier. I've updated the bug to give him a heads up on it. We'll take a look at it as soon as we can.
Jul 07, 2007 upper case link
fixing deliverator? i thought it was being phased out by kourrier?
Jul 08, 2007 Whistler link
The community handled it beautifully during today's Dantia Run. There was an L-miner at the end of the event who was killed over and over until he left.

My complaint is the same as Jex's though.
Jul 08, 2007 Aleksey link
Dantia Run? Damn, I missed that :(
Jul 08, 2007 Syylk link
You have it wrong, Whistler.

The community didn't "handle it beautifully".

It's completely backwards: the community HAD to handle it as dirty as possible, resorting to the worst possible form of griefing, hoping to avoid that the fun of one moron (Temmin Shard) didn't disrupt the fun of the other 20 - as devs have clearly demonstrated they wanted to allow, if not encourage.

As soon as I docked in M14, dodging mines, I relaunched with a twinswarmer, trying to stop said moron from ruining the party, but the only effect was to increase lag even more ("M14 seems a christmas tree with all the colored cargo and scraps floating around" was said), and not discourage the sucker one bit. Ok, my PK count raised a lot. I should be happy?

Oh, and mistaking the name of the most successful, popular, old, player run event of VO, demonstrates how much detached you are from what happens in the actual game.
Jul 08, 2007 Martin link
Now the debate gets tricky. the events after the Deneb Run were rare as it's not too often that many people meet in one sector. What bugs me is that I can lock down a station such as Sedina D14 and prevent most people from leaving said station with no consequences. That is a problem as often there aren't enough players online to stop someone from doing that.

I don't want to see some totally over the top response to this as it can be quite fun. All it needs is for either

Faction hits for station guard kills - probably not a bad idea
Station guard kills to set off the strike forces and force an Lminer to leave the sector
or losing all mines when you die

Obviously all these solutions combined would be overkill. It's corvus, not a playground, but one of these would do the job nicely.
Jul 08, 2007 toshiro link
In Whistler's defense: Perhaps his being detached from it isn't all that bad, especially since he should not be partial. If he were to 'take a side', he would lose that.

I have not been there, so I can't really say anything about the event itself (though I regret missing out on it).

However, I also think that station defense turrets will be one solution to discourage mining inside the NFZ, provided there are no 'dead zones'. And Odia M-14, as a capitol station, should be eligible for such protection.
Jul 08, 2007 roguelazer link
Also worth noting is that it's Corvus station. Corvus are the sketchy pirates. If you want a nice, safe, relaxing environment, then don't sit around the pirate station...
Jul 08, 2007 Martin link
That's true rogue, but even sketchy pirates get pissed when you blow up their station guards over and over.

Realistically I can't see how there's a debate about this being something to fix. The only debate I predicted was the extent of the fix. It clearly doesn't fit into any RP aspect of the game and the ability for people to get locked inside a station is a bad thing.
Jul 08, 2007 JestatisBess link
I was there during the "fight". Players are essentially useless in that situation. I barely docked with the station without being killed. And when i tried to leave i was repeatedly killed by lmines.

This should be an easy fix. Just make the person that uses the lmines temp KOS like it does when you uses ANY other weapon and losing all mines when they die or leave the sector. That way the person, if not killed, would have to leave the sector to at least re arm. And in losing the mines, when he dies or leaves the sector, he won't be able to home at that station and die and just put more mines out.

Its been made very clear to us the majority doesn't rule, that one player can (and even is encouraged) to ruin the fun of 20+ players. But i implore you please consider implementing these changes as soon as possible.
Jul 08, 2007 zamzx zik link
It was clearly after the event that Shard l-mined the station. He obviously waited for the racers to come home.

On that note, the strike force did an excellent job destroying the mines. He never had more then 15 out at a time.

I seriously think that l-mines need a much longer life, and sf should take longer to respawn. There should be a clear hiarchy to them respawning, and eventually (after 40 minutes) they should call in reinforcements, a battle group lead by a tearadon.

of course, l-mining should also give temp kos for killing the guards with mines, and perm kos if the mines are left in that 3000m radius for more then 10 minutes,
Jul 08, 2007 Whistler link
Yes, yes, "Deneb Run". How many times do I see that when I'm checking the forums?

So I'll be brief so as not to be mired in the negativity. I WAS there, never got hit by an l-mine for some reason, enjoyed the battle at the end (as did others), didn't feel that most people were all that upset by the mines, am clearly not detached as evidenced by my time and attention which are freely given in the forums and in the game, am charged to stick to the rules, am not charged with obeying the majority, and will think twice before donating my precious weekend time to an event again.
Jul 08, 2007 JestatisBess link
Whistler: I for one never wanted to suggest that you or any of the other guides are detached from the game. I, and many others, knew your referring to the "Dantia Run" was a joke. We do appreciate your help and involvement in the player activities and just being there when we need you or just having fun in-game with you. You do a great job in the forums and in game. I think we need more guides just like you :)

zamzx zik: I was the forth racer to finish. I can't speek for the other racers but i was swarmed AND lmined as i tried to dock. One player got to m-14 but couldn't dock. i don't know if he was killed by an lmine or swarms or something else, but with all the mess he was unable to dock at all. So they were lmining BEFORE the run finished. I was unable to loeave the eara for awhile i couldn't exit the staion fast enough before geting killed. Once or twice i died in the "undocking" bay before i could control my ship to run.

I agree with Martin this should be fixed. why is one weapon, only one immune to the rules. If you were hit with a neut mk ii or any other weapon the sf would come to protect you even at a corvus station.

I don't think anyone really wants to change the way the game works over all. Just make the lmines have the same consequences of use that every other weapon has.

Whistler: If you would, can you lock this thread or move it to suggestions? I think it should be finished there.
Jul 08, 2007 genka link
haha, newbs.
Jul 08, 2007 MSKanaka link
I think some people have missed a particularly important part of the Deneb Run rules as far as killing in Odia M-14 goes, because I was asked by at least one person after the race: the sponsors of the Deneb Run DO NOT hand out prize money for kills made in Odia M-14. If someone wants to be a shithead like certain unnamed swarming and l-mining jackasses and hand out prizes for kills in M-14, they are doing so without the consent and permission of the sponsors and should NEVER be considered as associated with the Deneb Run.
Jul 08, 2007 incarnate link
The problem is that NPCs aren't really aware of lightning mine attacks, due to some inherent difference in the way they are handled; so they don't respond they way they do to other attacks, and none of the normal escalations (strike forces, etc) result. Andy has notes on fixing it. Sorry for the persistence of the problem, we'll try and get it sorted this week if at all possible.
Jul 08, 2007 RelayeR link
On that note,

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