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Doukutsu has a good point and so do a lot here. Only thing about that is that there needs to be a way to get your corvus standing back up so that you can dock there again. We all know about boting to get back above -600 with the nations but what about corvus? There needs to be something. Maybe being able to bot corvus back up in Odia? Or a really hard mission that you get from "under the table" at a different station? I completely agree that there needs to be some kind of change to balance the faction system out.
Wow, looks like balance is starting to be a recuring thing with me. Whatever, hope it helps.
Wow, looks like balance is starting to be a recuring thing with me. Whatever, hope it helps.
@ Momerath
In our defence : re - not mentioned on test server.
There aint people flying about trading on test server, and mining, and stuff, so errm, its only good to test NPC stuff/Mission stuff - you cannot work out all the bugs in a *controlled* enviroment - just most, some bugs ARE going to make it into production, hell, this happens in some of the best and widely used software available (windows, for a great example)
The test server is only good to test some stuff, and we all (yes, all) expect bugs in stuff, really, chill, I was just concerned because someone told me *oh no, its supposed to be like that* im human, theres more bugs in me than in your current stuff, take it easy ;)
In our defence : re - not mentioned on test server.
There aint people flying about trading on test server, and mining, and stuff, so errm, its only good to test NPC stuff/Mission stuff - you cannot work out all the bugs in a *controlled* enviroment - just most, some bugs ARE going to make it into production, hell, this happens in some of the best and widely used software available (windows, for a great example)
The test server is only good to test some stuff, and we all (yes, all) expect bugs in stuff, really, chill, I was just concerned because someone told me *oh no, its supposed to be like that* im human, theres more bugs in me than in your current stuff, take it easy ;)
@Doukutsu: That's what happens when you have an old userbase.
Hehe... don't let the grey hair fool ya... okay, I *am* old but if you help me up and hand me my geritol... I'll give ya a good fight... :)~
Hehe... don't let the grey hair fool ya... okay, I *am* old but if you help me up and hand me my geritol... I'll give ya a good fight... :)~
yodaofborg is human! WOW!
Pulling this thread back from the darkness...
We were discussing the use of Avalons in station sectors, which I approve of, as long as you don't mind the faction standing hit. Some folks think Corvus should be exempt, and you should never be able to go below -599 Corvus faction no matter what you do.
I think that this is an exploit, and that Corvus stations would be just as pissed with you as anyone else if you killed a Corvus-admired pilot in their space. Part of the standing fix that the devs should implement should address this issue.
You should have permanent Corvus faction loss if you kill corvus-admired folks in a Corvus station, JUST like any other gray-station sector. (As it is now, you can home at a Corvus station, launch, L-mine the entrances, let the SF kill you, and repeat ad infinitum since your standing can't drop below -600.) Otherwise you get the ability to mine the stations' entrances in an unlimited fashion, Avalons would just be like a massive insta-kill L-mine.
Any jerk who wanted to be annoying could wait until all of the Deneb run racers were gathered and ready to start, then detonate an Avalon for 10 PK's at once. Or they could wait for a station sector buswar, and then send an avalon into the bus-war furball midst.
Besides, Corvus pirates aren't any more or less forgiving of blowing up their pilots. If Xang-XI hates you for killing its pilots, Corvus should as well, perhaps moreso, since, well, they ARE evil organized criminals. You'd think they would be QUICKER to sign your death warrant for killing one of their own.
If you've pissed off all the factions in VO so that you can't dock anywhere (i.e. all standings below -600), well, then your character is dead. Abort, Retry, Fail?
We were discussing the use of Avalons in station sectors, which I approve of, as long as you don't mind the faction standing hit. Some folks think Corvus should be exempt, and you should never be able to go below -599 Corvus faction no matter what you do.
I think that this is an exploit, and that Corvus stations would be just as pissed with you as anyone else if you killed a Corvus-admired pilot in their space. Part of the standing fix that the devs should implement should address this issue.
You should have permanent Corvus faction loss if you kill corvus-admired folks in a Corvus station, JUST like any other gray-station sector. (As it is now, you can home at a Corvus station, launch, L-mine the entrances, let the SF kill you, and repeat ad infinitum since your standing can't drop below -600.) Otherwise you get the ability to mine the stations' entrances in an unlimited fashion, Avalons would just be like a massive insta-kill L-mine.
Any jerk who wanted to be annoying could wait until all of the Deneb run racers were gathered and ready to start, then detonate an Avalon for 10 PK's at once. Or they could wait for a station sector buswar, and then send an avalon into the bus-war furball midst.
Besides, Corvus pirates aren't any more or less forgiving of blowing up their pilots. If Xang-XI hates you for killing its pilots, Corvus should as well, perhaps moreso, since, well, they ARE evil organized criminals. You'd think they would be QUICKER to sign your death warrant for killing one of their own.
If you've pissed off all the factions in VO so that you can't dock anywhere (i.e. all standings below -600), well, then your character is dead. Abort, Retry, Fail?
The situation at Corvus is slightly different even than that. You simply do not lose Corvus faction for any action taken against them except for aborting trade missions repeatedly. And even then, you cannot go below -599, for the reason that you have to be able to dock somewhere (But please correct me if I remember that incorrectly). I don't see a problem with the -599 thing, cutthroats will let anyone hang around if there's some profit in it (and the prices you'd pay at Corvus with standing that low can only be described as "abundantly profitable" for the equipment vendor).
The "l-mines at a station" thing is a separate issue altogether. The problem being that Lmine damage does not trigger a strike force to come after whoever drops the mines (unless the mine explodes from being shot or running out of juice and damages someone that way).
The "l-mines at a station" thing is a separate issue altogether. The problem being that Lmine damage does not trigger a strike force to come after whoever drops the mines (unless the mine explodes from being shot or running out of juice and damages someone that way).
Corvus is where you can always go if you anger everyone else in the entire galaxy. Corvus does not have "people", which is why the pirates you see in Corvid space are unaligned.. they are not truly "corvus" faction. Corvus themselves are really ambivalent. The only way you can irritate them is by making them lose money, in which case they will hire someone to kill you.
Corvus also doesn't follow the same rules as someone like Xang Xi, because they aren't a faction in the same sense. They are a shadowy organization that hires outside contractors and owns stations (analogous to owning "real estate" through "shell corporations"). They respond to economic impact by hiring other contractors, sometimes to get back at the first contractors who failed them. Almost no one who is *actually* corvus is ever seen in the universe. More detail and backstory to that will come in time, but suffice it to say, there is an underlying reason why corvus does not behave the same as all other factions.. and demonstrates ambivalence about life or death, even amongst their own contract employees.
Corvus also doesn't follow the same rules as someone like Xang Xi, because they aren't a faction in the same sense. They are a shadowy organization that hires outside contractors and owns stations (analogous to owning "real estate" through "shell corporations"). They respond to economic impact by hiring other contractors, sometimes to get back at the first contractors who failed them. Almost no one who is *actually* corvus is ever seen in the universe. More detail and backstory to that will come in time, but suffice it to say, there is an underlying reason why corvus does not behave the same as all other factions.. and demonstrates ambivalence about life or death, even amongst their own contract employees.
By making mines not deployable within the NFZ and Avalons not deployable within station sectors we eliminate this particular abuse.
As for the Corvus standing per se, it is an artifical answer to the possibility of being unable to dock with anyone. As it is, I don't like it; make them lose Corvus standing, too.
The solution for someone who's suddenly lost all his standings? Have Corvus bumped back (once he dies) to -599, but make him pay through the nose for it. Slap a large debt to him(say, 401,000cr, which is 1000c per point of faction Corvus "sold him"). Every time he completes a mission, Corvus automatically takes half the cash prize, until he pays the debt. Of course, the player can also pay the totality of the cost on his own every time. 400k are nothing to scoff at, so people will tend to be more careful; I also do not buy into that "We need sectors to station fight in" BS. SpaceQuake this is not.
As for the Corvus standing per se, it is an artifical answer to the possibility of being unable to dock with anyone. As it is, I don't like it; make them lose Corvus standing, too.
The solution for someone who's suddenly lost all his standings? Have Corvus bumped back (once he dies) to -599, but make him pay through the nose for it. Slap a large debt to him(say, 401,000cr, which is 1000c per point of faction Corvus "sold him"). Every time he completes a mission, Corvus automatically takes half the cash prize, until he pays the debt. Of course, the player can also pay the totality of the cost on his own every time. 400k are nothing to scoff at, so people will tend to be more careful; I also do not buy into that "We need sectors to station fight in" BS. SpaceQuake this is not.
I will repost my reply here since you're doing that necromancy thingy...
And in reply to Lexicon's post about Corvus's faction standing bug? WHAT? If you are referring to no standing loss at Corvus stations for killing Corvus admired/liked... PLEASE DO NOT FIX THAT... it's not a bug, it's a feature (for serious this time). We need station sectors that we can fight in without penalty. (cept the temp-kos for violating the NFZ) It's fun, leave it the way it is.
EDIT: As far as making station camping/nuking/mining more difficult or impossible... Incarnate already addressed that. But again... PLEASE LEAVE CORVUS THE UNCARING, UNETHICAL BASTARDS THEY SHOULD BE.
New EDIT: Yep that's my view of Corvus as well Incarnate... glad we see 'em the same way. (close enough for government work anyways)
And in reply to Lexicon's post about Corvus's faction standing bug? WHAT? If you are referring to no standing loss at Corvus stations for killing Corvus admired/liked... PLEASE DO NOT FIX THAT... it's not a bug, it's a feature (for serious this time). We need station sectors that we can fight in without penalty. (cept the temp-kos for violating the NFZ) It's fun, leave it the way it is.
EDIT: As far as making station camping/nuking/mining more difficult or impossible... Incarnate already addressed that. But again... PLEASE LEAVE CORVUS THE UNCARING, UNETHICAL BASTARDS THEY SHOULD BE.
New EDIT: Yep that's my view of Corvus as well Incarnate... glad we see 'em the same way. (close enough for government work anyways)
I agree with chillum baba. On everything he wrote in his post previous to this one.
I disagree with baba, tosh and incarnate.
I didn't understand that Corvus was not a faction. Funny. I see Corvus-labeled stations, Corvus convoys, and I can take Corvus missions. "Unaligned" ships are what I would consider the real pirates. Corvus seems more like the "Organized Crime Faction" to me. Let's continue with this metaphor, Corvus as Organized Crime Faction:
If you blew up Tony Soprano's car with an Avalon Torpedo after he left the Bada-Bing one night, the chances are pretty good that you would not be welcome back at the Bada-Bing for a loooooong time. In fact, you'd quickly find yourself at the wrong end of an infinite list of Bounty Hunter missions.
Even if you define the term "Corvus" more loosely as incarnate does, certainly the puppet masters at the strings of the shadow corporations would not be pleased if you continued to eliminate valuable Corvus-admired pilots that made them money. Since you're now a liability, they would ban you from entering their stations.
I realize that the game needs a crutch of some sort for the morons who manage to tank their standing everywhere. That crutch is "Corvus".
The original point of the thread resurrection was to point out that if you can't prevent people from homing at a Corvus station and L-Mining the entrances (due to the special nature of NEVER being able to not dock in Corvus), re-introducing an even MORE powerful weapon (Avalons) is going to encourage more of the same behavior.
Yes, you can plug in special safeguards for mines that make it impossible to "fire" them while in an NFZ, and impossible to fire Avalons while in an entire station sector.
But - this is merely a band-aid on top of another band-aid. It requires more "suspension of disbelief".
It would be easier to allow Avalons and L-Mines to be fired anywhere, and to just have Corvus stations penalize you like other stations for killing Corvus-admired folks in their sectors. Maybe not as much, but enough to make any jerks who exploit the "bottomless Corvus standing" think twice.
I know that Corvus station sectors are supposed to be dangerous places, and I love buswars and popping the odd unaware pilot in Sedina D-14. But soon, there will be more people playing this game, and we'll have problems when entire guilds of 50 people L-mine Corvus stations.
Perhaps buswars can be opt-in missions that allow you damage anyone and to disable any SF reaction for killing you. That makes a little more sense. THEN, buswars could be held in ANY sector. (And I guess it wouldn't be limited to Busses, either. And with a mission, you could enforce ships and armaments - no cheaters equipping a UC battery in their EC-88 or a Mk. III Ion Blaster instead of the gov blaster.)
You won't prevent someone who REALLY wants to kill someone in a Corvus station sector from doing so, but just like anyplace else, there's a penalty for it.
Now, if you allowed people to bot up their faction standings just like you can bot up your nation standings, then I think we're onto something.
You'll ALWAYS have a home station. Even if you home in SkyCommand and then go on a Serco killing spree, you will still be able to purchase a govbus and attempt to leave the station's sector. So I guess the whole "dead character" thing if you have -600 standing everywhere is not necessary.
I didn't understand that Corvus was not a faction. Funny. I see Corvus-labeled stations, Corvus convoys, and I can take Corvus missions. "Unaligned" ships are what I would consider the real pirates. Corvus seems more like the "Organized Crime Faction" to me. Let's continue with this metaphor, Corvus as Organized Crime Faction:
If you blew up Tony Soprano's car with an Avalon Torpedo after he left the Bada-Bing one night, the chances are pretty good that you would not be welcome back at the Bada-Bing for a loooooong time. In fact, you'd quickly find yourself at the wrong end of an infinite list of Bounty Hunter missions.
Even if you define the term "Corvus" more loosely as incarnate does, certainly the puppet masters at the strings of the shadow corporations would not be pleased if you continued to eliminate valuable Corvus-admired pilots that made them money. Since you're now a liability, they would ban you from entering their stations.
I realize that the game needs a crutch of some sort for the morons who manage to tank their standing everywhere. That crutch is "Corvus".
The original point of the thread resurrection was to point out that if you can't prevent people from homing at a Corvus station and L-Mining the entrances (due to the special nature of NEVER being able to not dock in Corvus), re-introducing an even MORE powerful weapon (Avalons) is going to encourage more of the same behavior.
Yes, you can plug in special safeguards for mines that make it impossible to "fire" them while in an NFZ, and impossible to fire Avalons while in an entire station sector.
But - this is merely a band-aid on top of another band-aid. It requires more "suspension of disbelief".
It would be easier to allow Avalons and L-Mines to be fired anywhere, and to just have Corvus stations penalize you like other stations for killing Corvus-admired folks in their sectors. Maybe not as much, but enough to make any jerks who exploit the "bottomless Corvus standing" think twice.
I know that Corvus station sectors are supposed to be dangerous places, and I love buswars and popping the odd unaware pilot in Sedina D-14. But soon, there will be more people playing this game, and we'll have problems when entire guilds of 50 people L-mine Corvus stations.
Perhaps buswars can be opt-in missions that allow you damage anyone and to disable any SF reaction for killing you. That makes a little more sense. THEN, buswars could be held in ANY sector. (And I guess it wouldn't be limited to Busses, either. And with a mission, you could enforce ships and armaments - no cheaters equipping a UC battery in their EC-88 or a Mk. III Ion Blaster instead of the gov blaster.)
You won't prevent someone who REALLY wants to kill someone in a Corvus station sector from doing so, but just like anyplace else, there's a penalty for it.
Now, if you allowed people to bot up their faction standings just like you can bot up your nation standings, then I think we're onto something.
You'll ALWAYS have a home station. Even if you home in SkyCommand and then go on a Serco killing spree, you will still be able to purchase a govbus and attempt to leave the station's sector. So I guess the whole "dead character" thing if you have -600 standing everywhere is not necessary.
An aproprate standing system would be very complex. The system we have now is oversimplistic. oversimplistic is starting to sound like a good thing.
Got news for you, no PC in VO is the Corvus equivalent of Tony Soprano. If I whack some Corvus respected pilot right outside the D14 station, why should Corvus care? He's just a peon, who's proven himself worthy of access to items and missions, but that's it. They might send out a SF for my violating the NFZ and disturbing their peace and quiet, but that's all. And even that should probably be dispensed with.
To clarify this for those of you who aren't getting it, I propose that Corvus "standing" be renamed. As it is currently unlike any other faction standing system in existance, and should remain so, let it be made clear that Corvus stations aren't like other stations. Is it a problem if a guild wants to mine a station? No. Go somewhere else, or kill them off. The one exception should be that if you attack a station guard, then the SF will launch. Corvus stations are currently treated as just another place to dock, home, take missions, and if you're a n00b, equip stuff that you otherwise can't get.
All that needs to change, and the way to make it happen is to have fewer repercussions for engaging in mayhem there, not more. Players need to learn that Corvus is not just another station group with slightly different rules. They need to start to see going there as a real tough call, to be considered and frequently rejected as too risky. Players above X standing with Corvus should be barred from homing there, to save them the problem of being camped.
Let them fear to enter some part of the universe.
To clarify this for those of you who aren't getting it, I propose that Corvus "standing" be renamed. As it is currently unlike any other faction standing system in existance, and should remain so, let it be made clear that Corvus stations aren't like other stations. Is it a problem if a guild wants to mine a station? No. Go somewhere else, or kill them off. The one exception should be that if you attack a station guard, then the SF will launch. Corvus stations are currently treated as just another place to dock, home, take missions, and if you're a n00b, equip stuff that you otherwise can't get.
All that needs to change, and the way to make it happen is to have fewer repercussions for engaging in mayhem there, not more. Players need to learn that Corvus is not just another station group with slightly different rules. They need to start to see going there as a real tough call, to be considered and frequently rejected as too risky. Players above X standing with Corvus should be barred from homing there, to save them the problem of being camped.
Let them fear to enter some part of the universe.
'Corvus' pirates are really Unaligned pirates. As such, they have no alignment with any faction whatsoever, and are fair game, especially they way they are now.
The fact that Corvus is at best a pirate nation always puts them at risk of having a punitive expedition from a nation knocking on their wormholes if they go too far. As such, the 'anything goes' should apply for Corvus affiliates (official and unofficial ones) as well as for those who trespass on their ground.
As for WMD (L-mines, nukes), they being a no-go in the NFZ (technically) actually makes a lot of sense. Even if it's only PD lasers mounted on stations that can take out incoming warheads or mines deployed within their range with surgical precision and in a split-second after identification to give an explanation for your bemoaned 'suspense of disbelief'.
The fact that Corvus is at best a pirate nation always puts them at risk of having a punitive expedition from a nation knocking on their wormholes if they go too far. As such, the 'anything goes' should apply for Corvus affiliates (official and unofficial ones) as well as for those who trespass on their ground.
As for WMD (L-mines, nukes), they being a no-go in the NFZ (technically) actually makes a lot of sense. Even if it's only PD lasers mounted on stations that can take out incoming warheads or mines deployed within their range with surgical precision and in a split-second after identification to give an explanation for your bemoaned 'suspense of disbelief'.
Hmmm, Now I know this is meant to be a MMORPG, but it isnt quite yet. Once all the story has been written (which it has not yet) you RP ninnys will have something to base your RP off, until then button it! You are all trying to make a story up in a (dare I say it?) RP Void! The void awaits! Now scram!
IAWTP
I Am Wanting Toilet Paper ??
that too!
<< Make a dueling sector or sectors (preferably close to b8) that are completely unmonitored. >>
please i hope it was an illusion coz it's a scaring idea.
what could i say about the whole faction system?
I think it's time to :
- Make opposed faction standing serco/itani (you can't be admired in the two sides. example if you have +599 with serco so you have -599 with itani. The traders will have to manage their standing to be safe). Each time you win standing number on a side so you will lose the same standing number on the opposed side. new player start with an opposed standing number (UIT has +200 itani/-200 serco, ITANI has +700 itani/-700 serco and SERCO has -700 itani/+700 serco)
-Remove the current FF protection.
-Corvus has a special standing penalty (-599 to +1000 everybody is under their protection) If you kill around station : a small lose (example -50 pts per kill around the corvus station). But if you violated their no-fire zone and went temporaly KOS = you will be not under their protection.
please i hope it was an illusion coz it's a scaring idea.
what could i say about the whole faction system?
I think it's time to :
- Make opposed faction standing serco/itani (you can't be admired in the two sides. example if you have +599 with serco so you have -599 with itani. The traders will have to manage their standing to be safe). Each time you win standing number on a side so you will lose the same standing number on the opposed side. new player start with an opposed standing number (UIT has +200 itani/-200 serco, ITANI has +700 itani/-700 serco and SERCO has -700 itani/+700 serco)
-Remove the current FF protection.
-Corvus has a special standing penalty (-599 to +1000 everybody is under their protection) If you kill around station : a small lose (example -50 pts per kill around the corvus station). But if you violated their no-fire zone and went temporaly KOS = you will be not under their protection.
Yeah, the faction system should reflect the fact that the Itani and Serco are at war; not even the UIT should be able to be in fine standing with both sides (being nice to one side immediately makes you suspect with the other). And UIT-Corvus standing should be the same way as the Itani-Serco standing; either you're an upstanding citizen or a pirate, or somewhere in the middle, but you shouldn't have it both ways.