Forums » Suggestions
Ok, I've been spending a fair amount of time the past few days in some of the less used ships, and some of the "non-uber' weapons, trying to figure out what can be done to make EVERY ship a usable ship in the game, giving each ship a role, and also trying to keep each ship balanced with its levels as well.
I have some suggestions, I am not advocating these changes be made immediately, nor am I attempting to imply that these MUST be done or even that they are the BEST way to do it. It's just something I have been toying with for a while now. I would ask that anyone wanting to comment/critique my suggestions read the whole post, and keep in mind that all of the changes i am suggesting are meant to be taken as a whole, not individually.
As such complaining that i want to "nerf the BLAH" based on what i propose doing to its stats is only a valid argument if you consider what is being done to the other ships at the same time, and still think it would make that ship completely useless. Additionally my suggestions are also somewhat designed around a rock paper scissors approach, attempting to make it so that no 1 ship can beat all other ships 1v1.
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My first 2 suggestions deal with the prometheous and the centurions, probably the 2 most used ships in the game.
The Prom: as i stated in another thread, with the 50N cut and the 25N cut across the board, the proms feel pretty good to me right now. They are a special ship, and take a fair amount of level grinding to get, so they should be a fairly powerful ship.
The Centurions: These ships are tricky, as it is now they are so light that they easily dodge almost all weapons fire. I'd like to see them also get a small thrust cut; (5N maybe). Additionally, as I have said before, they have too much cargo IMO, cut the cargo on all variants in half to reduce thier use as a raider and encourage them to work in a team if they are used as a pirate ship. Reduce the spin torque on them a bit as well making them more of a hit and run style raider so that they cant track targets as well at close quarters. Last i'd like to see all the centurion variants take a 30% hull reduction. I'm sure i'll get some flack over this due to the fact that they are allready veunerable to rocketrams but i think i have a solution for that later on in the post.
The next ship on my list is the valk, with the small thrust increase it just got, it might be a bit better than it was. It's 3 weapons ports are still effectively useless however because of the mass of any weapon other than the neuts, and even if the cent had the changes i suggest above, it still isnt worth the levels needed to get it. I'd suggest increasing its mass and its thrust by 25%, making the mass of weapons less of an influence on it, keeping more of its agility. Increase the spin torque a bit, making it the ideal close up "knife range" fighter. I am a bit afraid that this would make it the "UBER" ship again however, so if that were to be the case i would want to see its armor cut by enough to balance that out. It is a LOT easier to hit than a centurion or a vulture due to its shape however, and I THINK the changes i suggest would make it about the same as a cent/vulture if it used all 3 weapons ports. Obviously if it only equips 1 super light weapon its going to be interesting tho... so if that becomes a problem, a nice 25% cut to its armor would be a decent start.
The vulture doesnt actually need much in the way of changes if the above ideas were implimented, I would cut its armor a bit but thats just because it LOOKS so fragile with those paper thin wings.
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Heres where the ideas start to get a bit odd, all of the above ships (except the prom, which i think is good maxed out at 220m/s on the SCP) I would give a small (10-20m/s) increase in top speed, and an similar increase in non-turbo speed (5m/s-10m/s) at the expense of added energy drain. None of the variants would have better than 60 drain, and those would be the weaker variants. most would have 65-70 drain. This would make these ships excellent combat ships, but with the disadvantage of not having the "legs" for fast moving battles.
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The Centaur and the Rangarok I have lumped together as the "heavies" because what i want to do to both ships is, IMO the most interesting suggestion i have. I would like to see the turbo drain of both ships doubled, and have a second battery slot in each of the ships. This would give both ships the ability to store a LOT more energy for weapons use, making energy weapons more viable on both ships, but particularly on the rangarok. (maybe 3 batteries and tripple the energy drain on the rag)
The rangarok needs another increase of both mass and thrust, but probably only about 125%, just enough to reduce the effects of the weapons mass a little bit more.
Both the rangarok and the centaur would have thier top speed set at about 180-190, but i think it would be interesting for thier non-turbo speed to be increased to 70-75m/s, giving them a better chance in a running fight. (yes it means they backpedal better)
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The warthog and the hornet both need about the same treatment as the valk, increase both mass and thrust by 150%, making them less prone to the mass of weapons. the hornet would actually need an increase of about 175%, maybe as much as 200% on both. Additionally both ships need a small increase in HP, and maybe some upped spin-torque.
The warthog and horent would fill a new role in the game, that of a long range fighter. both ships would have infiniturbo or nearly infiniturbo(55 drain) on all variants. top speeds would be in the 200m/s range (+/-10 depending on the variant) This would allow them to become convoy gaurdians/attackers because they would have the turbo endurance to keep up with transports.
in a 1v1 battle with one of the pure fighters, except the prom, they would still be at a disadvantage, but i think with the changes i propose it wouldnt be AS significant as it is now.
Additionally the hornet might get the same treatment as the rag and the centaur, and have doubled turbo drain and 2 battery slots to make all 4 of its weapons ports useful.
Both ships would be a balance to the prom, because they would pack enough firepower to go 1v1 with it and I think they would still be a bit more agile than it is, they would both be especially useful against the rags and centaurs because of thier infiniturbo combined with heavy firepower, since both ships would be more agile than the heavies.
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The Marauder needs some serious help, right now it is outclassed in every way as a cargo ship by the moth with the exception of short, local low mass deliveries, and even then, why take 48 when you can take 120? I dont actually suggest changing anything on its stats, just lower its level so it can be purchased at level 6 trade, maybe even level 5 trade, and up the moth to level 9 or 10 trade. The marauder is still better at defending its cargo, but the moth has enough hull and straight line turbo accel that it can usually just run away and live, even if it has to dock and repair in every system it visits.
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I havent forgotten the wraith or the bus, but IMO both ships are fine as they are. The bus is a good enough noobie ship, and the wraith is an Excellent step up from the bus on the trader/miner path, its allready a good multi-purpouse ship for those just starting out.
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Now for the weapon changes... IMO most of the low level weapons are pointless, theres is no reason to have 4 versions of the phased blaster or the ion blaster.. pick the best version of each and leave it in the game, and just scrap the other versions. i dont think anyone really uses them anyway. obviously keep the factional variants like the orion and the TPG versions but as far as the basic variants go.. 1 is enough.
neutrons might need a small cut in damage (no more than 100 damage/shot) but i'm not set on this.
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Change the Iceflares to a level 0 weapon to give new players a taste of rockets. tripple the ammo load to 24
increase the ammo on the starflares to 18.
the sunflare could use a small increase in refire time, make it 1.5 seconds between shots, and reduce the ammo down to 12.
Add a new flare.. the NovaFlare, give it the same stats as the iceflare except increase the speed to 90m/s and add a concussion force of 2500(1/4 of a concussion mine) with an ammo load of 4.
Add another new flare, give it 4X the mass of the sunflare, triple the damage, and a refire of 4 seconds. ammo of 6. i dont have a name for this one, its kind of an off the wall idea. i'd just like to see some more interesting rocket tactics. It would take some time and patience to set up a shot with this one, but it might be worth it.
Jackhammers and screamers are more or less ok, maybe a small increase in damage because they seem just a bit weak for thier mass, but maybe reduce the mass instead.
With the new "distance" saftey fuses we will see what happens. I am still of the opinion that a time fuse would be better tho. Maybe a combination of the two.. if a rocket travels XXmeters OR .75 seconds its proximity fuse activates. This would still allow boosted rockets to have a use at reasonable ranges without making it useless to use rockets defensively to keep attackers at bay.
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The gauss cannon is only really useful against light ships when its on light ships, on a heavy ship it cant be aimed fast enough to be extremely effective. I'd like to see both its mass and damage go up by 50% and its shot speed increase to 200m/s. This would limit its effectiveness on a light ship such as the centurion or vulture, and provide some incentive to take the hornet and the warthog because with thier increased thrust/mass they would have a better chance of mounting it.
The AGT is actually pretty decent as it is, and its only really dangerous on the current proms, which if given the small thrust changes i suggested above would be less effective mounting it. Maybe up its mass just a bit.
Swarms... these are pretty well balanced.
Stingrays. can we please make these a level 0 heavy weapon
Gatling Cannon. see stingrays.
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Ok, thats pretty much it. with the above changes as i see it, the valk, vult and centurion would be the best fighters, in that order, with the prom being just about equal to the valk in a 1v1 but using its armor and firepower (it mounts gauss better and has a L-port) instead of speed and agility.
The centaur and the rangarok would provide heavy firesupport at the cost of having lower speed/maneuver.
the hornet and the warthog would be midrange fighters, good for multiple tasks and able to travel longer distance shile still packing a reasonable punch in a fight.
the gauss cannon would be a "heavy" small port weapon, which considering its autoaim is what I feel it was meant to be, and the lighter weapons wouldnt have so many useless options cluttering upt he buy menu. There would be more useful rocket options, and rocket tactics would be more interesting.
I have some suggestions, I am not advocating these changes be made immediately, nor am I attempting to imply that these MUST be done or even that they are the BEST way to do it. It's just something I have been toying with for a while now. I would ask that anyone wanting to comment/critique my suggestions read the whole post, and keep in mind that all of the changes i am suggesting are meant to be taken as a whole, not individually.
As such complaining that i want to "nerf the BLAH" based on what i propose doing to its stats is only a valid argument if you consider what is being done to the other ships at the same time, and still think it would make that ship completely useless. Additionally my suggestions are also somewhat designed around a rock paper scissors approach, attempting to make it so that no 1 ship can beat all other ships 1v1.
------------------------------------
My first 2 suggestions deal with the prometheous and the centurions, probably the 2 most used ships in the game.
The Prom: as i stated in another thread, with the 50N cut and the 25N cut across the board, the proms feel pretty good to me right now. They are a special ship, and take a fair amount of level grinding to get, so they should be a fairly powerful ship.
The Centurions: These ships are tricky, as it is now they are so light that they easily dodge almost all weapons fire. I'd like to see them also get a small thrust cut; (5N maybe). Additionally, as I have said before, they have too much cargo IMO, cut the cargo on all variants in half to reduce thier use as a raider and encourage them to work in a team if they are used as a pirate ship. Reduce the spin torque on them a bit as well making them more of a hit and run style raider so that they cant track targets as well at close quarters. Last i'd like to see all the centurion variants take a 30% hull reduction. I'm sure i'll get some flack over this due to the fact that they are allready veunerable to rocketrams but i think i have a solution for that later on in the post.
The next ship on my list is the valk, with the small thrust increase it just got, it might be a bit better than it was. It's 3 weapons ports are still effectively useless however because of the mass of any weapon other than the neuts, and even if the cent had the changes i suggest above, it still isnt worth the levels needed to get it. I'd suggest increasing its mass and its thrust by 25%, making the mass of weapons less of an influence on it, keeping more of its agility. Increase the spin torque a bit, making it the ideal close up "knife range" fighter. I am a bit afraid that this would make it the "UBER" ship again however, so if that were to be the case i would want to see its armor cut by enough to balance that out. It is a LOT easier to hit than a centurion or a vulture due to its shape however, and I THINK the changes i suggest would make it about the same as a cent/vulture if it used all 3 weapons ports. Obviously if it only equips 1 super light weapon its going to be interesting tho... so if that becomes a problem, a nice 25% cut to its armor would be a decent start.
The vulture doesnt actually need much in the way of changes if the above ideas were implimented, I would cut its armor a bit but thats just because it LOOKS so fragile with those paper thin wings.
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Heres where the ideas start to get a bit odd, all of the above ships (except the prom, which i think is good maxed out at 220m/s on the SCP) I would give a small (10-20m/s) increase in top speed, and an similar increase in non-turbo speed (5m/s-10m/s) at the expense of added energy drain. None of the variants would have better than 60 drain, and those would be the weaker variants. most would have 65-70 drain. This would make these ships excellent combat ships, but with the disadvantage of not having the "legs" for fast moving battles.
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The Centaur and the Rangarok I have lumped together as the "heavies" because what i want to do to both ships is, IMO the most interesting suggestion i have. I would like to see the turbo drain of both ships doubled, and have a second battery slot in each of the ships. This would give both ships the ability to store a LOT more energy for weapons use, making energy weapons more viable on both ships, but particularly on the rangarok. (maybe 3 batteries and tripple the energy drain on the rag)
The rangarok needs another increase of both mass and thrust, but probably only about 125%, just enough to reduce the effects of the weapons mass a little bit more.
Both the rangarok and the centaur would have thier top speed set at about 180-190, but i think it would be interesting for thier non-turbo speed to be increased to 70-75m/s, giving them a better chance in a running fight. (yes it means they backpedal better)
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The warthog and the hornet both need about the same treatment as the valk, increase both mass and thrust by 150%, making them less prone to the mass of weapons. the hornet would actually need an increase of about 175%, maybe as much as 200% on both. Additionally both ships need a small increase in HP, and maybe some upped spin-torque.
The warthog and horent would fill a new role in the game, that of a long range fighter. both ships would have infiniturbo or nearly infiniturbo(55 drain) on all variants. top speeds would be in the 200m/s range (+/-10 depending on the variant) This would allow them to become convoy gaurdians/attackers because they would have the turbo endurance to keep up with transports.
in a 1v1 battle with one of the pure fighters, except the prom, they would still be at a disadvantage, but i think with the changes i propose it wouldnt be AS significant as it is now.
Additionally the hornet might get the same treatment as the rag and the centaur, and have doubled turbo drain and 2 battery slots to make all 4 of its weapons ports useful.
Both ships would be a balance to the prom, because they would pack enough firepower to go 1v1 with it and I think they would still be a bit more agile than it is, they would both be especially useful against the rags and centaurs because of thier infiniturbo combined with heavy firepower, since both ships would be more agile than the heavies.
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The Marauder needs some serious help, right now it is outclassed in every way as a cargo ship by the moth with the exception of short, local low mass deliveries, and even then, why take 48 when you can take 120? I dont actually suggest changing anything on its stats, just lower its level so it can be purchased at level 6 trade, maybe even level 5 trade, and up the moth to level 9 or 10 trade. The marauder is still better at defending its cargo, but the moth has enough hull and straight line turbo accel that it can usually just run away and live, even if it has to dock and repair in every system it visits.
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I havent forgotten the wraith or the bus, but IMO both ships are fine as they are. The bus is a good enough noobie ship, and the wraith is an Excellent step up from the bus on the trader/miner path, its allready a good multi-purpouse ship for those just starting out.
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Now for the weapon changes... IMO most of the low level weapons are pointless, theres is no reason to have 4 versions of the phased blaster or the ion blaster.. pick the best version of each and leave it in the game, and just scrap the other versions. i dont think anyone really uses them anyway. obviously keep the factional variants like the orion and the TPG versions but as far as the basic variants go.. 1 is enough.
neutrons might need a small cut in damage (no more than 100 damage/shot) but i'm not set on this.
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Change the Iceflares to a level 0 weapon to give new players a taste of rockets. tripple the ammo load to 24
increase the ammo on the starflares to 18.
the sunflare could use a small increase in refire time, make it 1.5 seconds between shots, and reduce the ammo down to 12.
Add a new flare.. the NovaFlare, give it the same stats as the iceflare except increase the speed to 90m/s and add a concussion force of 2500(1/4 of a concussion mine) with an ammo load of 4.
Add another new flare, give it 4X the mass of the sunflare, triple the damage, and a refire of 4 seconds. ammo of 6. i dont have a name for this one, its kind of an off the wall idea. i'd just like to see some more interesting rocket tactics. It would take some time and patience to set up a shot with this one, but it might be worth it.
Jackhammers and screamers are more or less ok, maybe a small increase in damage because they seem just a bit weak for thier mass, but maybe reduce the mass instead.
With the new "distance" saftey fuses we will see what happens. I am still of the opinion that a time fuse would be better tho. Maybe a combination of the two.. if a rocket travels XXmeters OR .75 seconds its proximity fuse activates. This would still allow boosted rockets to have a use at reasonable ranges without making it useless to use rockets defensively to keep attackers at bay.
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The gauss cannon is only really useful against light ships when its on light ships, on a heavy ship it cant be aimed fast enough to be extremely effective. I'd like to see both its mass and damage go up by 50% and its shot speed increase to 200m/s. This would limit its effectiveness on a light ship such as the centurion or vulture, and provide some incentive to take the hornet and the warthog because with thier increased thrust/mass they would have a better chance of mounting it.
The AGT is actually pretty decent as it is, and its only really dangerous on the current proms, which if given the small thrust changes i suggested above would be less effective mounting it. Maybe up its mass just a bit.
Swarms... these are pretty well balanced.
Stingrays. can we please make these a level 0 heavy weapon
Gatling Cannon. see stingrays.
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Ok, thats pretty much it. with the above changes as i see it, the valk, vult and centurion would be the best fighters, in that order, with the prom being just about equal to the valk in a 1v1 but using its armor and firepower (it mounts gauss better and has a L-port) instead of speed and agility.
The centaur and the rangarok would provide heavy firesupport at the cost of having lower speed/maneuver.
the hornet and the warthog would be midrange fighters, good for multiple tasks and able to travel longer distance shile still packing a reasonable punch in a fight.
the gauss cannon would be a "heavy" small port weapon, which considering its autoaim is what I feel it was meant to be, and the lighter weapons wouldnt have so many useless options cluttering upt he buy menu. There would be more useful rocket options, and rocket tactics would be more interesting.
Spell, that's awesome
*stamp-o-winnar*
I like it
I like all the changes except the sunflare. They do in NO WAY need their refire time reduced. Also, the guass cannon is fine as it is.
Well thought out Spell, I could live with all of that. I'm not entirely sure the gauss needs more oomph but with extra mass I think it would be fine. No significant complaints here.
Hi Spellcast,
Very nice post. Here are my 2cts :
(a) I agree with your assessments of the proms. They need a slight reduction in spin torque.
(b) Centurions are fine as they are now, they are barely a match for the proms at the moent, so if you reduce their thrust by 15N you might has well reduce them to their pre-uber days. What I would Like to see is Mk2 and Mk1 cents getting a mass reduction to 3500kg. They are so lousy now nobody uses them, and they are so different from the Rev C/IBG that effectively they are a separate class of ships. I agree with the no-cargo thing though. The hull reduction is debatable : try taking a Rev C vs an AGT-Flare-Prom first before you make this call. (I've read your solution, see below later.)
(c) I like your idea for the valk. But I think if you do that the tri-flare valk is going to kill everything. Imagine a tri-Novaflare (your idea) valk. But, if the flares are nerfed a bit, then this will be a great idea.
(d) I think the vulture needs help too. Increase thrust by 5N on each variant will help. But keep its spin torque though (For speed fiends, fly a cent.) Reduce Corv Vult drain to 65s.
(e) I agree with your assessment of the Rag and Centaur.
(f) I don't fly hogs much, so I can't comment so much.
(g) The Hornet needs so much help it is ridiculous. I agree with your assessment.
Guns :
(a) Flares. Ok I disagree on flares. I think the current flares are too fast. I don't really want to comment so much (with all the flamewars going on), so I won't except to make 1 comment. Let the devs look at the statistics (they have a lot they say) and then they decide.
Here is my one comment : the new flares have make the AGT-flare-prom even more deadly than before. The reduced flare mass compensate for the reduced thrust/spin torque, and the increase speed makes the prom's "Sphere of COntrol" even wider. Takae 2 pilots, about equal ability, and have them duel with a light ship vs AGT-flare-prom, make them fight each other 10 times, swappin ships each time. See what is the result. That's statistics.
(I don't like anecdotal evidence "oh the guy nearly killed my prom with so-and-so", the ones we get in the forums.)
I am not sure the 1sec delay will help much, but I think that's a step in the right direction though. Maybe we can try this before tweaking the flares.
(b) Agree with all your small weapons change except the Gauss. There is a "heavy" version of the gauss, and that's the PlasDev which needs an increse in damage to 1800. Now I know you want to make the gauss a 'heavy' light ship gun, but I think you can just make a new gun for it (maybe a 'Heavy Gauss'). The gauss is fine right now, it is not uber, not too weak, and gives some much needed variety over the usual blaster stuff. So why break it?
Thanks for reading.
Very nice post. Here are my 2cts :
(a) I agree with your assessments of the proms. They need a slight reduction in spin torque.
(b) Centurions are fine as they are now, they are barely a match for the proms at the moent, so if you reduce their thrust by 15N you might has well reduce them to their pre-uber days. What I would Like to see is Mk2 and Mk1 cents getting a mass reduction to 3500kg. They are so lousy now nobody uses them, and they are so different from the Rev C/IBG that effectively they are a separate class of ships. I agree with the no-cargo thing though. The hull reduction is debatable : try taking a Rev C vs an AGT-Flare-Prom first before you make this call. (I've read your solution, see below later.)
(c) I like your idea for the valk. But I think if you do that the tri-flare valk is going to kill everything. Imagine a tri-Novaflare (your idea) valk. But, if the flares are nerfed a bit, then this will be a great idea.
(d) I think the vulture needs help too. Increase thrust by 5N on each variant will help. But keep its spin torque though (For speed fiends, fly a cent.) Reduce Corv Vult drain to 65s.
(e) I agree with your assessment of the Rag and Centaur.
(f) I don't fly hogs much, so I can't comment so much.
(g) The Hornet needs so much help it is ridiculous. I agree with your assessment.
Guns :
(a) Flares. Ok I disagree on flares. I think the current flares are too fast. I don't really want to comment so much (with all the flamewars going on), so I won't except to make 1 comment. Let the devs look at the statistics (they have a lot they say) and then they decide.
Here is my one comment : the new flares have make the AGT-flare-prom even more deadly than before. The reduced flare mass compensate for the reduced thrust/spin torque, and the increase speed makes the prom's "Sphere of COntrol" even wider. Takae 2 pilots, about equal ability, and have them duel with a light ship vs AGT-flare-prom, make them fight each other 10 times, swappin ships each time. See what is the result. That's statistics.
(I don't like anecdotal evidence "oh the guy nearly killed my prom with so-and-so", the ones we get in the forums.)
I am not sure the 1sec delay will help much, but I think that's a step in the right direction though. Maybe we can try this before tweaking the flares.
(b) Agree with all your small weapons change except the Gauss. There is a "heavy" version of the gauss, and that's the PlasDev which needs an increse in damage to 1800. Now I know you want to make the gauss a 'heavy' light ship gun, but I think you can just make a new gun for it (maybe a 'Heavy Gauss'). The gauss is fine right now, it is not uber, not too weak, and gives some much needed variety over the usual blaster stuff. So why break it?
Thanks for reading.
I disagree with the Centaurs and Ragnaroks being boosted to 70-75m/s. Heavy fighters should never outrun/outmanuever light fighters, especially toe to toe. Currently only the Centurion Border Guardian and Rev C versions can go 70, and only the Vulturius goes 75. This is the major strength of these ships.
I would suggest that that the IDF Valkyrie Vigilant impulse speed be increased to 70m/s so it behaves a bit more like an elite version of the light fighter and not just a reworked Valkyrie Vengance.
I would suggest that that the IDF Valkyrie Vigilant impulse speed be increased to 70m/s so it behaves a bit more like an elite version of the light fighter and not just a reworked Valkyrie Vengance.
I'm with Softy2 on the changes.
Some really good thoughts, Spellcast.
I really, really like the idea of giving the heavy ships 2 battery slots... there's always been something that bothered me about giving a ship with a *greater* turbo thrust *less* of a battery drain, it just didn't make sense. With 2 battery slots on the heavies, the ragnarok and the hornet could make better use of their numerous weapon ports.
Of course, this would re-emphasize energy weapons over rockets, and there would probably have to be yet another round of energy weapon rebalancing.
The centurion is already a weak hulled ship, I don't think it needs its hull cut at all. I actually would say just leave the cent alone... it already seems like a fairly well balanced ship (light, fast, maneuverable, paper-thin)
I agree that all vulture variants could use ~1000 armor reduction, back to their VT 3.2 days.
I think the warthog is fine as is (my PvP melee ship of choice), provided the vulture gets a small hull cut.
Upping the mass and thrust of the Valk is an interesting idea... I havn't flown a Valk since release, so I can't really comment on this. Same goes for the prom.
As far as basic weapon variants go: leave them in, please! The newbs already have next to nothing to choose from when they enter the game, and even though vets may know that the basic weapon variants are crap, to a newb buying your first plasma cannon mkII is an exciting experience. The last thing we need to do is give newbs even fewer weapon options.
I do think that the speeds of the basic weapons should all be upped 10-20 m/s to match the speed increase the higher level weapons were given.
Gauss cannons are fine as is... their slow speed is offset by their high damage, good autoaim, and fat shots. I don't think we should mess with gauss at this point.
Iceflares at level 0: I couldn't agree more... I would say put yellowjackets at level 0 also. That way a newb can have his/her choice between a blaster, a rocket, or a missile when they first start out. *variety is good for newbs! first impressions are key!* I'd also say bump the stingray (which already is available at level 0 b.t.w.) up to HW level 1 to replace the yellowjackets. It doesn't make sense that you have to level up to get a slower, less powerful missile launcher that has half the ammo (s-port or no).
Basic Gatling at level 0: as is, I think this weapon is too powerful for level 0. It does around 4,000 damage per second, has shots that travel faster than any other basic blaster, and pretty decent energy usage. I do however think a "dumbed down" version of the gatling cannon would be ideal for level 0... I've heard many newbs clamoring for a level 0 heavy weapon that can actually *hit* the target (unlike the stingray)... and the basic gatling has a unique look to it; again, more variety at the newb level is a good thing. Perhaps if the shot speed were reduced to 170, the damage cut to 230, and the mass bumped up 500kg or so.
I really, really like the idea of giving the heavy ships 2 battery slots... there's always been something that bothered me about giving a ship with a *greater* turbo thrust *less* of a battery drain, it just didn't make sense. With 2 battery slots on the heavies, the ragnarok and the hornet could make better use of their numerous weapon ports.
Of course, this would re-emphasize energy weapons over rockets, and there would probably have to be yet another round of energy weapon rebalancing.
The centurion is already a weak hulled ship, I don't think it needs its hull cut at all. I actually would say just leave the cent alone... it already seems like a fairly well balanced ship (light, fast, maneuverable, paper-thin)
I agree that all vulture variants could use ~1000 armor reduction, back to their VT 3.2 days.
I think the warthog is fine as is (my PvP melee ship of choice), provided the vulture gets a small hull cut.
Upping the mass and thrust of the Valk is an interesting idea... I havn't flown a Valk since release, so I can't really comment on this. Same goes for the prom.
As far as basic weapon variants go: leave them in, please! The newbs already have next to nothing to choose from when they enter the game, and even though vets may know that the basic weapon variants are crap, to a newb buying your first plasma cannon mkII is an exciting experience. The last thing we need to do is give newbs even fewer weapon options.
I do think that the speeds of the basic weapons should all be upped 10-20 m/s to match the speed increase the higher level weapons were given.
Gauss cannons are fine as is... their slow speed is offset by their high damage, good autoaim, and fat shots. I don't think we should mess with gauss at this point.
Iceflares at level 0: I couldn't agree more... I would say put yellowjackets at level 0 also. That way a newb can have his/her choice between a blaster, a rocket, or a missile when they first start out. *variety is good for newbs! first impressions are key!* I'd also say bump the stingray (which already is available at level 0 b.t.w.) up to HW level 1 to replace the yellowjackets. It doesn't make sense that you have to level up to get a slower, less powerful missile launcher that has half the ammo (s-port or no).
Basic Gatling at level 0: as is, I think this weapon is too powerful for level 0. It does around 4,000 damage per second, has shots that travel faster than any other basic blaster, and pretty decent energy usage. I do however think a "dumbed down" version of the gatling cannon would be ideal for level 0... I've heard many newbs clamoring for a level 0 heavy weapon that can actually *hit* the target (unlike the stingray)... and the basic gatling has a unique look to it; again, more variety at the newb level is a good thing. Perhaps if the shot speed were reduced to 170, the damage cut to 230, and the mass bumped up 500kg or so.
softy:
"- if you reduce their thrust by 15N you might has well reduce them to their pre-uber days. try taking a Rev C vs an AGT-Flare-Prom first before you make this call. (I've read your solution, see below later.)-"
Did this.. what i've suggested in reducing the cents is intentional.. i dont feel that the centurion SHOULD be able to stand against a prom 1v1. A ship thats availible at level 1 combat IMO should probably not have an even chance vs a ship that takes 9/x/10/x(SCP prom) Reducing its thrust a bit would allow it to have a role as a passable light fighter, make it deadly against ships like the rangarok, centaur, etc, but it would be torn apart by the valk or the prom given pilots of equal skill. As i stated in my top post, I was trying for a situation where all ships are weak against some ships, and strong against others. If it were to turn out that 15N was too much, then it could be reduced back to a 10N cut.
"-(c) I like your idea for the valk. But I think if you do that the tri-flare valk is going to kill everything. Imagine a tri-Novaflare (your idea) valk. But, if the flares are nerfed a bit, then this will be a great idea.-"
heh the novaflare couldnt kill anything, not with 4 rounds of iceflare damage, not even in a tri-nova valk could do very much damage with that... it'd knock you for a loop with the cuncussion, but its not a lot of damage.
the other new flare i suggested might be more of a problem tho, It was kind of a last minute addon and I have no trouble loosing it. By cutting the ammo on the sunflares and giving them a slight increase in refire, I tried to reduce that possibility of the triflare ram.
"-There is a "heavy" version of the gauss, and that's the PlasDev which needs an increse in damage to 1800.-"
"-The gauss is fine right now, it is not uber, not too weak,-"
I disagree that the gauss is not too weak, the gauss is currently useless on anything but a light ship, even prom vs prom or wraith vs wraith the gauss cannon doesnt pack enough punch and is too hard to hit with.
I've always seen the light figthers as a platform for high refire, low individual shot damage, low autoaim weapon systems.
The gauss cannon doesnt really fit that. Its more of a medium size weapon IMO. a bridge between the light and heavy weapons. It would be ideal on the revamped hornet or warthog.
Actually my main fear with the gauss was that after the changes it would become UBER on the valk if used as a trio even without modifications, which is where the mass increase came from.
Anyhow, at 180m/s shot speed a weapon that only fires twice a second is useless against the fast agile ships currently in the game. I was attempting to balance that out without making it even more uber on the light ships, hence the mass increase, and the damage increase to even out the mass increase so that it would be a viable weapon on the ships it would still be usable with.
Speaking of the plasma dev however, i completely forgot about it earlier.. It does definitely need a boost in its damage, tho i'd have gone all the way to 1900 or 2000 a shot.
Mecha:
"-I disagree with the Centaurs and Ragnaroks being boosted to 70-75m/s. Heavy fighters should never outrun/outmanuever light fighters, especially toe to toe. -" Oh i dont think the heavies should outmaneuver them, with the excedingly low spin torque/thrust of both the ships maneuvering isnt really a problem.
Both of those ships DO however need something of a benefit to offset that disadvantage, and since they would have a lower turbo speed they arent in any real danger of escaping. All the higher non-turbo speed would do is give them a better chance to fight thier way out of a bad situation, something neither ship has any chance at right now, making them flying coffins.
I can see the tweak to the IDF valk, but my suggestions were more in the line of broad outlines, not focused on any specific ship. think of the values i've suggested as being about the average of all ships in that particular class.
"- if you reduce their thrust by 15N you might has well reduce them to their pre-uber days. try taking a Rev C vs an AGT-Flare-Prom first before you make this call. (I've read your solution, see below later.)-"
Did this.. what i've suggested in reducing the cents is intentional.. i dont feel that the centurion SHOULD be able to stand against a prom 1v1. A ship thats availible at level 1 combat IMO should probably not have an even chance vs a ship that takes 9/x/10/x(SCP prom) Reducing its thrust a bit would allow it to have a role as a passable light fighter, make it deadly against ships like the rangarok, centaur, etc, but it would be torn apart by the valk or the prom given pilots of equal skill. As i stated in my top post, I was trying for a situation where all ships are weak against some ships, and strong against others. If it were to turn out that 15N was too much, then it could be reduced back to a 10N cut.
"-(c) I like your idea for the valk. But I think if you do that the tri-flare valk is going to kill everything. Imagine a tri-Novaflare (your idea) valk. But, if the flares are nerfed a bit, then this will be a great idea.-"
heh the novaflare couldnt kill anything, not with 4 rounds of iceflare damage, not even in a tri-nova valk could do very much damage with that... it'd knock you for a loop with the cuncussion, but its not a lot of damage.
the other new flare i suggested might be more of a problem tho, It was kind of a last minute addon and I have no trouble loosing it. By cutting the ammo on the sunflares and giving them a slight increase in refire, I tried to reduce that possibility of the triflare ram.
"-There is a "heavy" version of the gauss, and that's the PlasDev which needs an increse in damage to 1800.-"
"-The gauss is fine right now, it is not uber, not too weak,-"
I disagree that the gauss is not too weak, the gauss is currently useless on anything but a light ship, even prom vs prom or wraith vs wraith the gauss cannon doesnt pack enough punch and is too hard to hit with.
I've always seen the light figthers as a platform for high refire, low individual shot damage, low autoaim weapon systems.
The gauss cannon doesnt really fit that. Its more of a medium size weapon IMO. a bridge between the light and heavy weapons. It would be ideal on the revamped hornet or warthog.
Actually my main fear with the gauss was that after the changes it would become UBER on the valk if used as a trio even without modifications, which is where the mass increase came from.
Anyhow, at 180m/s shot speed a weapon that only fires twice a second is useless against the fast agile ships currently in the game. I was attempting to balance that out without making it even more uber on the light ships, hence the mass increase, and the damage increase to even out the mass increase so that it would be a viable weapon on the ships it would still be usable with.
Speaking of the plasma dev however, i completely forgot about it earlier.. It does definitely need a boost in its damage, tho i'd have gone all the way to 1900 or 2000 a shot.
Mecha:
"-I disagree with the Centaurs and Ragnaroks being boosted to 70-75m/s. Heavy fighters should never outrun/outmanuever light fighters, especially toe to toe. -" Oh i dont think the heavies should outmaneuver them, with the excedingly low spin torque/thrust of both the ships maneuvering isnt really a problem.
Both of those ships DO however need something of a benefit to offset that disadvantage, and since they would have a lower turbo speed they arent in any real danger of escaping. All the higher non-turbo speed would do is give them a better chance to fight thier way out of a bad situation, something neither ship has any chance at right now, making them flying coffins.
I can see the tweak to the IDF valk, but my suggestions were more in the line of broad outlines, not focused on any specific ship. think of the values i've suggested as being about the average of all ships in that particular class.
Hi Spellcast,
Thanks for the reply.
(a) "i dont feel that the centurion SHOULD be able to stand against a prom 1v1."
I understand the sentiment, but I am not sure this is going to work . The problem is basically "in real life", it is 1 player in 1 ship, so naturally nobody wants to fly an inferior ship. The level requirement is not really an important point : people will just bot up to "PVP levels" and play with the ships that give them the best chance.
This situation of "one ship cannot stand up to another" already exists : why does nobody fly the Valk/Standard Cent/hornet etc...? Because it cannot stand up to the other ships in the game.
If there is an "elite" class of ships, people will just fly those, and we are already seen what happened, twice :
(1) when valk was uber, serco flies them
(2) proms are uber now, so itani flies them
The danger is that then everyone will be flying multicolored "INSERT UBER SHIP HERE".
(b) Tri-Nova Flare valk. Hehe. Sorry I missed the iceflare damage bit. But still, a triflare valk in your setting will fly like the current 4200kg triN3 valk. It will kill cents with 1.5 shots (but then that's your idea I guess, valk should always beat cents...) But yes, your line of thinkin abot fixing the valk is very interesting.
(c) Gauss. The gauss is flyable on heavy ships too. Example : the dual gauss Corv Vult, which at 5800kg at 7.5N, turns as badly as the dual gauss SCP (multiply both by 2), and accelerates worse than the dualgauss SCP. It is totally flyable, and can kill cents pretty quickly. Its autoaim is almost useless though (don't use it like you use N3s), and like Tramshed like to say "The Way of the Gauss : you 'place' shots, not aim them.)
I know the gauss is not easy to use, but there lies its charm : it can be mastered and made very effective. It's velocity is 190 m/s btw, and it's being pretty effective against the agile light ships in the game so far. I know Shape, Apex, my Holden char (my other char doesn't use gauss to keep in "character") tram and others use the gauss plenty against light ships.
Nevertheless I agree that there should be a "heavy gauss", like you advocated, but you don't hae to break the old gauss to do make it.
Thanks for reading.
Thanks for the reply.
(a) "i dont feel that the centurion SHOULD be able to stand against a prom 1v1."
I understand the sentiment, but I am not sure this is going to work . The problem is basically "in real life", it is 1 player in 1 ship, so naturally nobody wants to fly an inferior ship. The level requirement is not really an important point : people will just bot up to "PVP levels" and play with the ships that give them the best chance.
This situation of "one ship cannot stand up to another" already exists : why does nobody fly the Valk/Standard Cent/hornet etc...? Because it cannot stand up to the other ships in the game.
If there is an "elite" class of ships, people will just fly those, and we are already seen what happened, twice :
(1) when valk was uber, serco flies them
(2) proms are uber now, so itani flies them
The danger is that then everyone will be flying multicolored "INSERT UBER SHIP HERE".
(b) Tri-Nova Flare valk. Hehe. Sorry I missed the iceflare damage bit. But still, a triflare valk in your setting will fly like the current 4200kg triN3 valk. It will kill cents with 1.5 shots (but then that's your idea I guess, valk should always beat cents...) But yes, your line of thinkin abot fixing the valk is very interesting.
(c) Gauss. The gauss is flyable on heavy ships too. Example : the dual gauss Corv Vult, which at 5800kg at 7.5N, turns as badly as the dual gauss SCP (multiply both by 2), and accelerates worse than the dualgauss SCP. It is totally flyable, and can kill cents pretty quickly. Its autoaim is almost useless though (don't use it like you use N3s), and like Tramshed like to say "The Way of the Gauss : you 'place' shots, not aim them.)
I know the gauss is not easy to use, but there lies its charm : it can be mastered and made very effective. It's velocity is 190 m/s btw, and it's being pretty effective against the agile light ships in the game so far. I know Shape, Apex, my Holden char (my other char doesn't use gauss to keep in "character") tram and others use the gauss plenty against light ships.
Nevertheless I agree that there should be a "heavy gauss", like you advocated, but you don't hae to break the old gauss to do make it.
Thanks for reading.
I like most of the remarks made by spellcast but the problem is as softy stated that you will create cases where people are only going to fly a valk and the prom. Even if it is a grind to get them. Not to mention that you will make being a newb even harder since as you put it a hornet has no chance against a valk nor has a warthog nor has a centurion. Meaning that the pvp focus might be lost since people will need to bot up to 8/x/10/x just to be competetive with the vets in a 1vs1 case. And I do NOT want to see a valk with 3 flares at least not with the agility it has or had during alfa. In my book 1 -2 sunflares is more then enough if you keep the same agility as the old vulture.
I agree to introducing an energybased heavy weapon to the game, but would prefer if it happened at level 1(or maybe level 2 but prefer level 1). Since you don't start out with a ship that is able to load a large port weapon. And you do get your first large port ship with trade 1 and I believe combat 2(warthog but I can be wrong on this number).
I am not going to say someting about gausses, but in my mind a gauss should be more adequately usuable on a medium and heavy ship. But this is still under revisement.
I agree to introducing an energybased heavy weapon to the game, but would prefer if it happened at level 1(or maybe level 2 but prefer level 1). Since you don't start out with a ship that is able to load a large port weapon. And you do get your first large port ship with trade 1 and I believe combat 2(warthog but I can be wrong on this number).
I am not going to say someting about gausses, but in my mind a gauss should be more adequately usuable on a medium and heavy ship. But this is still under revisement.
My vision of a proper gauss is one that fits well on a hog but weighs a cent down. The hog is good against proms and valks, but is weak against light fighters, I think Spellcasts tweaks will make more of a PRS balance rather than uber vs uber.
If the hog were tweaked a little and other mediums brought up to speed I think we would find them a nice counter to the heavies. Meanwhile the lights counter the mediums well and the heavies tear up the lights mostly. Sounds ok to me.
If the hog were tweaked a little and other mediums brought up to speed I think we would find them a nice counter to the heavies. Meanwhile the lights counter the mediums well and the heavies tear up the lights mostly. Sounds ok to me.
"-This situation of "one ship cannot stand up to another" already exists : why does nobody fly the Valk/Standard Cent/hornet etc...? Because it cannot stand up to the other ships in the game.-"
as true as that is, I dont see the valk and the prom being used exclusively in my above scenario because of the increased turbo drain. The ability to infiniturbo or nearly infiniturbo would draw some players down to the weaker ships..
the prom itself would be veunerable to the warthog or hornet, because they have more armor than the lighter ships and more maneuverability than the prom under the guidelines i set up.
The valk would be beatable by the prom, and to a lesser extent by the other light fighters, particularly the vulture.
All of the light fighters, AND the prom would be at a disadvantage in anything where they had to chase a target, or keep up with another ship to defend it.
At least thats what i was going for.. giving each ship some slightly more specialized roles.
I'm willing to concede the gauss issue, tho IMO its still not fast enough to be used well in combat unless its mounted on a light fighter.
Hoax, yea thats pretty much what i was going for.. the trick is balancing those mediums so they cant take apart both the heavies AND the lights. they have to be agile enough and have enough firepower to blast the heavies... but slow enough to not be able to go toe to toe with the lights. its an interesting balance, and frankly, i'm glad that its not me that has to make it work in anything other than a hypothetical situation. :D
as true as that is, I dont see the valk and the prom being used exclusively in my above scenario because of the increased turbo drain. The ability to infiniturbo or nearly infiniturbo would draw some players down to the weaker ships..
the prom itself would be veunerable to the warthog or hornet, because they have more armor than the lighter ships and more maneuverability than the prom under the guidelines i set up.
The valk would be beatable by the prom, and to a lesser extent by the other light fighters, particularly the vulture.
All of the light fighters, AND the prom would be at a disadvantage in anything where they had to chase a target, or keep up with another ship to defend it.
At least thats what i was going for.. giving each ship some slightly more specialized roles.
I'm willing to concede the gauss issue, tho IMO its still not fast enough to be used well in combat unless its mounted on a light fighter.
Hoax, yea thats pretty much what i was going for.. the trick is balancing those mediums so they cant take apart both the heavies AND the lights. they have to be agile enough and have enough firepower to blast the heavies... but slow enough to not be able to go toe to toe with the lights. its an interesting balance, and frankly, i'm glad that its not me that has to make it work in anything other than a hypothetical situation. :D
"All the higher non-turbo speed would do is give them a better chance to fight thier way out of a bad situation, something neither ship has any chance at right now, making them flying coffins."
I look at ship balance like this: Light fighters: High Speed, Low Armor; Medium Fighters: Moderate Speed, Moderate Armor; Heavy Fighters: Low Speed, High Armor.
Your suggestion is to make thenm faster, better armed, and better armored than light fighters. Beyond any PvP implications such a setup would have, can you say botting without trying? With such a high strafe speed, no bot would hit you.
The purpose of a heavy fighter isn't that it's supposed to dodge well. It's supposed to withstand the beating long enough to train it's multitude of weapons on a target and liquify it. It would seem to me that if it fails in this regards, that looking at increasing it's armor for better survivability would be the go.
Consider too that the ships already have infiniboost. This gives them an excellent chance of escape if a player actually decides he wants out of the bad situation.
As far as everything else goes ship wise, I agree with your propositions. The idea with the IDF Valk is that it specifically needs something to set it aside from the rest of the valk group, as it represents the pinnacle of Itani light fighter technology.
I look at ship balance like this: Light fighters: High Speed, Low Armor; Medium Fighters: Moderate Speed, Moderate Armor; Heavy Fighters: Low Speed, High Armor.
Your suggestion is to make thenm faster, better armed, and better armored than light fighters. Beyond any PvP implications such a setup would have, can you say botting without trying? With such a high strafe speed, no bot would hit you.
The purpose of a heavy fighter isn't that it's supposed to dodge well. It's supposed to withstand the beating long enough to train it's multitude of weapons on a target and liquify it. It would seem to me that if it fails in this regards, that looking at increasing it's armor for better survivability would be the go.
Consider too that the ships already have infiniboost. This gives them an excellent chance of escape if a player actually decides he wants out of the bad situation.
As far as everything else goes ship wise, I agree with your propositions. The idea with the IDF Valk is that it specifically needs something to set it aside from the rest of the valk group, as it represents the pinnacle of Itani light fighter technology.
"-Your suggestion is to make thenm faster, better armed, and better armored than light fighters. Beyond any PvP implications such a setup would have, can you say botting without trying? With such a high strafe speed, no bot would hit you.-"
you appear to be under some kind of bad assumption... i'm suggesting a higher TOP speed, not a higher thrust... its the ability to CHANGE course that matters in combat, and thats thrust, not top speed. if it takes several seconds to alter course it doesnt matter what your potential top speed is. The only thing the higher top speed would add is the ability to retreat more effectively, shich the ships would need if thier turbo speed was reduced to 180/190.
"-Consider too that the ships already have infiniboost. This gives them an excellent chance of escape if a player actually decides he wants out of the bad situation.-"
let me make a suggestion, take a rangarok and go to sedina b-8. Put NO weapons on it to minimize your mass. have someone in a cent or a valk or even a prom attack you and try to get away by just turboing. infiniturbo is not a good means of escape for a rangarok.
you appear to be under some kind of bad assumption... i'm suggesting a higher TOP speed, not a higher thrust... its the ability to CHANGE course that matters in combat, and thats thrust, not top speed. if it takes several seconds to alter course it doesnt matter what your potential top speed is. The only thing the higher top speed would add is the ability to retreat more effectively, shich the ships would need if thier turbo speed was reduced to 180/190.
"-Consider too that the ships already have infiniboost. This gives them an excellent chance of escape if a player actually decides he wants out of the bad situation.-"
let me make a suggestion, take a rangarok and go to sedina b-8. Put NO weapons on it to minimize your mass. have someone in a cent or a valk or even a prom attack you and try to get away by just turboing. infiniturbo is not a good means of escape for a rangarok.
what role do you have for the wraith?
since I prefer to see a prom like a seriously beefed up wraith, and seeing your adjustments that is exactly what it is going to become. And well my view of a wraith and therefore also of a prom was as a very decent defenseship because of its large hull and moderate (medium agility) or even like a bombardmentship. I really don't view it per se as a heavy although it has the exterior characteristics but not the interior ones (armament). A perfect heavy special would in my eyes be like a mix between the ragnorok (gilitywise) and the behemoth (armorwise) with 3 - 4 large ports and 0 small ones.
I do however agree that the plasmadev needs a beefing up.
[stupid idea]
Also it might be an idea to not only make the special weapons like the axia positron and the n3 depending on factionstanding and the win of ctc but also depending on certain duels with higher rated people. Aka: get a duel going on with one of the top 10 users of a gauss be able to beat or survive a certain time against him before you will get the right to actively use them. Or beat a certain number of people with the positron before you are able to get access to the axia positron. Maybe just like the busmedal unlocks the special bus. Maybe even give the top 10 a x-master medal and beating one of these masters gives you the right to use these special weapons after attaining the normal requirements. This can also be used for the specials in a way. Which actually keeps both the normal ones as the specials usefull. Since really who gives a second glance to any of the centurions once they have the rev-c... although this may be a lot harder to do/set up.
[/stupid idea]
since I prefer to see a prom like a seriously beefed up wraith, and seeing your adjustments that is exactly what it is going to become. And well my view of a wraith and therefore also of a prom was as a very decent defenseship because of its large hull and moderate (medium agility) or even like a bombardmentship. I really don't view it per se as a heavy although it has the exterior characteristics but not the interior ones (armament). A perfect heavy special would in my eyes be like a mix between the ragnorok (gilitywise) and the behemoth (armorwise) with 3 - 4 large ports and 0 small ones.
I do however agree that the plasmadev needs a beefing up.
[stupid idea]
Also it might be an idea to not only make the special weapons like the axia positron and the n3 depending on factionstanding and the win of ctc but also depending on certain duels with higher rated people. Aka: get a duel going on with one of the top 10 users of a gauss be able to beat or survive a certain time against him before you will get the right to actively use them. Or beat a certain number of people with the positron before you are able to get access to the axia positron. Maybe just like the busmedal unlocks the special bus. Maybe even give the top 10 a x-master medal and beating one of these masters gives you the right to use these special weapons after attaining the normal requirements. This can also be used for the specials in a way. Which actually keeps both the normal ones as the specials usefull. Since really who gives a second glance to any of the centurions once they have the rev-c... although this may be a lot harder to do/set up.
[/stupid idea]
what role do you have for the wraith?
pretty much the same one it has now.. its a perfect first step for a new player, its a better bus basically. More cargo, more hull, more weapons, still not a great fighter.. (tho in certain hands it CAN be dangerous in some cases)
Trade level 1 is the easiest level to get, making the wraith the easiest "new" ship to get. It also gives a taste of the heavies without BEING a heavy... if you understand what i mean.
pretty much the same one it has now.. its a perfect first step for a new player, its a better bus basically. More cargo, more hull, more weapons, still not a great fighter.. (tho in certain hands it CAN be dangerous in some cases)
Trade level 1 is the easiest level to get, making the wraith the easiest "new" ship to get. It also gives a taste of the heavies without BEING a heavy... if you understand what i mean.
Again...
They are heavy fighters...
They are mobile gun plaforms...
They are not supposed to be fast...
They are supposed to withstand punishment...
Hasty retreat should not be in thier repertoire...
Higher top speed won't phase thier acceleration...
But will allow for increased lateral mobility...
Taking little time to reach...
Making them bot immune...
Allowing them to orbit intercepting light fighters...
This specific change...
Would unbalance them...
They are heavy fighters...
They are mobile gun plaforms...
They are not supposed to be fast...
They are supposed to withstand punishment...
Hasty retreat should not be in thier repertoire...
Higher top speed won't phase thier acceleration...
But will allow for increased lateral mobility...
Taking little time to reach...
Making them bot immune...
Allowing them to orbit intercepting light fighters...
This specific change...
Would unbalance them...