Forums » Suggestions
I've noticed 3 things :
(A) Traders are Filthy Rich
(B) Miners are even more Filthy Rich
(C) Everybody else : CTC players+pirates are Piss Poor.
The reason is simple of course : trading and mining are waaaay over profitable. So all the money in the game gets locked up in the hands of Traders and Miners.
Personally I don't mind them being rich. But I think we can utilize this fact to encourage more MULTI-PLAYER coop :
Remove Weapons from trade/mining ships. THe goal is to force them to hire escorts. This way,
(1) Traders/miners have a use for the 500M they have stocked up, and money can distributed more evenly.
(2) Encourage Multiplayer Coop. When Traders have escorts, Pirates will need to hunt in fleets. More Big-Fights = Good Thing.
To compensate : make trading more profitable (if it is not already too bloody profitable already :)).
Please : keep this thread flame-free. I am trying to figure out ways to encourage MULTI-player tactics, instead of the 1vs1 enounters that is happening most of the time.
{EDIT 1] : Increase the Faction Gain for trading in Grey Space, that's one way to increase the Profits from trading.
(A) Traders are Filthy Rich
(B) Miners are even more Filthy Rich
(C) Everybody else : CTC players+pirates are Piss Poor.
The reason is simple of course : trading and mining are waaaay over profitable. So all the money in the game gets locked up in the hands of Traders and Miners.
Personally I don't mind them being rich. But I think we can utilize this fact to encourage more MULTI-PLAYER coop :
Remove Weapons from trade/mining ships. THe goal is to force them to hire escorts. This way,
(1) Traders/miners have a use for the 500M they have stocked up, and money can distributed more evenly.
(2) Encourage Multiplayer Coop. When Traders have escorts, Pirates will need to hunt in fleets. More Big-Fights = Good Thing.
To compensate : make trading more profitable (if it is not already too bloody profitable already :)).
Please : keep this thread flame-free. I am trying to figure out ways to encourage MULTI-player tactics, instead of the 1vs1 enounters that is happening most of the time.
{EDIT 1] : Increase the Faction Gain for trading in Grey Space, that's one way to increase the Profits from trading.
How about centaur, no slots, 52 cargo?
How about separate 'mining slots' for miners?
Some miners/traders would like this, no more heavy-weapons licenses to get a decent trade ship
How about separate 'mining slots' for miners?
Some miners/traders would like this, no more heavy-weapons licenses to get a decent trade ship
> (C) Everybody else : CTC players+pirates are Piss Poor.
Well, if *all* they do is CtC or Pirate, then yes... but I personally do a fair amount of trading between CtC convoys, and while I'm nowhere near as rich as some of the hard-core traders, I am most definitely *not* 'Piss Poor'. It really doesn't take all that much trading to pay for all your needs for your other 'interests'. And personally, a better solution to this IMO would be to make the other interests (CtC, piracy) more profitable, rather than making trading & mining less. And also IMO it's right and proper for Traders/Miners to be wealthier than others - just maybe not to the extent it is now.
As far as removing weapon slots from trading ships, that's cool with me, especially if there's a cargo increase like ananzi suggests. I leave them empty when I trade anyway. But since mining lasers use weapon slots, mining ships *have* to have slots, and more is better, of course. What I could see, is having a special 'M' slot for mining lasers. I'd still like some (not too good) S & L mining lasers, but have all the better ones 'M', and have the specialized mining ships have 1-3 (4? more?) 'M' slots, and at most 1 S port (for the scanner), and no L ports. Then have no damaging weapons for the 'M' slot.
Well, if *all* they do is CtC or Pirate, then yes... but I personally do a fair amount of trading between CtC convoys, and while I'm nowhere near as rich as some of the hard-core traders, I am most definitely *not* 'Piss Poor'. It really doesn't take all that much trading to pay for all your needs for your other 'interests'. And personally, a better solution to this IMO would be to make the other interests (CtC, piracy) more profitable, rather than making trading & mining less. And also IMO it's right and proper for Traders/Miners to be wealthier than others - just maybe not to the extent it is now.
As far as removing weapon slots from trading ships, that's cool with me, especially if there's a cargo increase like ananzi suggests. I leave them empty when I trade anyway. But since mining lasers use weapon slots, mining ships *have* to have slots, and more is better, of course. What I could see, is having a special 'M' slot for mining lasers. I'd still like some (not too good) S & L mining lasers, but have all the better ones 'M', and have the specialized mining ships have 1-3 (4? more?) 'M' slots, and at most 1 S port (for the scanner), and no L ports. Then have no damaging weapons for the 'M' slot.
<ot>
In EVN, I could make an insane amount of money off of combat if I wanted to. (I used this to bootstrap myself a lot, in fact, taking down a Manticore or three in my Shuttle and becoming a millionaire...) In VO, I find myself completely running out of money from doing CtC, and being out of action for a day as a result while I trade back for the stuff I need. I'm not sure which I like more.
</ot>
The only worthwhile group activity (IMO) at the moment is Capture the Cargo. With player-owned capital ships this will change, as a capital ship would be at the mercy of a fleet of small fighters unless it had one of its own.
If Advanced Combat were made better in groups, people would do it. Same with Border Patrol.
Also, what about group cargo missions like the solo scrap metal one we have now? (i.e. "Your group must deliver 300 cu of Phase Arrays to <x station>. Each group member will be given cargo as they dock." with a reward of 2000 trade xp and 100000c)
-:sigma.SB
In EVN, I could make an insane amount of money off of combat if I wanted to. (I used this to bootstrap myself a lot, in fact, taking down a Manticore or three in my Shuttle and becoming a millionaire...) In VO, I find myself completely running out of money from doing CtC, and being out of action for a day as a result while I trade back for the stuff I need. I'm not sure which I like more.
</ot>
The only worthwhile group activity (IMO) at the moment is Capture the Cargo. With player-owned capital ships this will change, as a capital ship would be at the mercy of a fleet of small fighters unless it had one of its own.
If Advanced Combat were made better in groups, people would do it. Same with Border Patrol.
Also, what about group cargo missions like the solo scrap metal one we have now? (i.e. "Your group must deliver 300 cu of Phase Arrays to <x station>. Each group member will be given cargo as they dock." with a reward of 2000 trade xp and 100000c)
-:sigma.SB
This is a good thread. And I have a few ideas to toss in there too.
1. Doing group missions should be MORE profitable, not less than going solo. As I'm sure anyone whos done group combat missions noticed.
2. I agree with the heavier trade ships not having weapons,as most traders never really use weapons anyways other than to missle spam ya and run away. And removing weapons while increasing cargo would definatly encourage grouping, since the trader flying with 100 units of heliocene and no weapons im sure is rather concerned about flying alone.
3. Mining ships and beams/scanners should definatly have thier own port, and the mineral scanner should be an M port item also. Because currently, you could not remove the weapons from the larger trade ships without making mining a very difficult prospect indeed.
4. The group trade missions that would require both players to make multiple trips sounds awesome. Make them quite a bit more profitable in trade exp to make up for the added time/danger, and make it so the amount of cargo you have to transport is based on how many people are in the group, with a base amount of 30 or so (low enough for the noobs, but high enough to make them take at least two trips.) and then add, say 15 units per trade level per player. So say a level 4 trade guy and a level 2 trade guy were to do a group mission, they would have to transport 150 units.
5. One last idea to mellow out the miners getting filthy rich, make a mining beam cost oh, say 500 or 600 credits a minute to operate, you can get more than that in ore per minute mining, so it would be quite profitable, but would tone it down a bit, it would also make those people who script-mine to increase their levels pay out thier ass to do something so jerkass, hehe.
6. Ok, one last thing for real this time, this pertaining to traders. How about you make cargo and the canisters they are in two separate objects. Make the canisters somewhat pricey, but reusuable, with 1cu 2cu and 3cu versions, each of them only able to hold a trade object of the same size. That way a trader who wants to start moving 48 units of whatever in his centaur also has to buy 48 cargo canisters, which would be pricey. Also, so it doesnt completely screw the noobs over, make it so cargo missions give you the container canisters when you take the mission and take them when you finish/abort it. That way "normal" trading, which isnt uber profitable can still take place as usual, but the more hardcore trading would require an investment, and getting pirated in an empty trade ship wouldnt be such an insignificant loss to them, since any empty canisters they had in thier hold will have to be rebought also.
1. Doing group missions should be MORE profitable, not less than going solo. As I'm sure anyone whos done group combat missions noticed.
2. I agree with the heavier trade ships not having weapons,as most traders never really use weapons anyways other than to missle spam ya and run away. And removing weapons while increasing cargo would definatly encourage grouping, since the trader flying with 100 units of heliocene and no weapons im sure is rather concerned about flying alone.
3. Mining ships and beams/scanners should definatly have thier own port, and the mineral scanner should be an M port item also. Because currently, you could not remove the weapons from the larger trade ships without making mining a very difficult prospect indeed.
4. The group trade missions that would require both players to make multiple trips sounds awesome. Make them quite a bit more profitable in trade exp to make up for the added time/danger, and make it so the amount of cargo you have to transport is based on how many people are in the group, with a base amount of 30 or so (low enough for the noobs, but high enough to make them take at least two trips.) and then add, say 15 units per trade level per player. So say a level 4 trade guy and a level 2 trade guy were to do a group mission, they would have to transport 150 units.
5. One last idea to mellow out the miners getting filthy rich, make a mining beam cost oh, say 500 or 600 credits a minute to operate, you can get more than that in ore per minute mining, so it would be quite profitable, but would tone it down a bit, it would also make those people who script-mine to increase their levels pay out thier ass to do something so jerkass, hehe.
6. Ok, one last thing for real this time, this pertaining to traders. How about you make cargo and the canisters they are in two separate objects. Make the canisters somewhat pricey, but reusuable, with 1cu 2cu and 3cu versions, each of them only able to hold a trade object of the same size. That way a trader who wants to start moving 48 units of whatever in his centaur also has to buy 48 cargo canisters, which would be pricey. Also, so it doesnt completely screw the noobs over, make it so cargo missions give you the container canisters when you take the mission and take them when you finish/abort it. That way "normal" trading, which isnt uber profitable can still take place as usual, but the more hardcore trading would require an investment, and getting pirated in an empty trade ship wouldnt be such an insignificant loss to them, since any empty canisters they had in thier hold will have to be rebought also.
Re: tramshed
1. Yes. Most definitely, but not too much more.
2. Also yes. We really need larger capacity ships, or bot transports to hire, or something. Currently, I'm really not afraid of pirates, because even if I lose a full load of luxury goods, oh well, I can make that back quick enough. OTOH, if it was losing 100+ units, I'd be much more proactive about protecting it.
3. The one thing here, is that I think there should still be S & L port mining equipment, just make them really crappy. I'd see all the specialized mining ships (with the 'M' port) requiring certain mining licenses, so to get started mining there would need to be S & L equipment, but all the real hardcore miners wouldn't want to use them.
4. Yes.
5. I think, and hope, you're joking here. Like I mentioned in my previous post, I'd rather see PvP combat/piracy made more profitable, rather than making trading/mining less profitable. What's wrong with miners/traders being insanely rich? The only problem is if you're bored witless w/ mining/trading, and you end up 'Piss Poor'. And making miners/traders not insanely rich does not solve the problem of non-miner/trader players being poor.
6. This would be interesting, but has a couple of problems IMO. First, it's too confusing for what it's worth. Also, even though you say the canisters would be reusable, if a trader is trading X cu goods one way, and Y cu goods back, s/he'd have to keep switching canisters, and would either need to sell the canisters (not much of a problem, as long as the crates sell for as much or more than they cost, but still annoying), or end up with big piles of crates in certain stations. Lastly, if the trader's going to be empty anyway, why wouldn't they sell the canisters as well, so losing their ship would still be an insignificant loss.
[Edit]
Possible ways to make PvP combat more profitable:
1. More bounties. Hopefully the coming illegal bounty system will help here.
2. Maybe make it so players carry a certain small percentage of their credits with them, which would be dropped as cargo crates if the player is destroyed.
[/edit]
1. Yes. Most definitely, but not too much more.
2. Also yes. We really need larger capacity ships, or bot transports to hire, or something. Currently, I'm really not afraid of pirates, because even if I lose a full load of luxury goods, oh well, I can make that back quick enough. OTOH, if it was losing 100+ units, I'd be much more proactive about protecting it.
3. The one thing here, is that I think there should still be S & L port mining equipment, just make them really crappy. I'd see all the specialized mining ships (with the 'M' port) requiring certain mining licenses, so to get started mining there would need to be S & L equipment, but all the real hardcore miners wouldn't want to use them.
4. Yes.
5. I think, and hope, you're joking here. Like I mentioned in my previous post, I'd rather see PvP combat/piracy made more profitable, rather than making trading/mining less profitable. What's wrong with miners/traders being insanely rich? The only problem is if you're bored witless w/ mining/trading, and you end up 'Piss Poor'. And making miners/traders not insanely rich does not solve the problem of non-miner/trader players being poor.
6. This would be interesting, but has a couple of problems IMO. First, it's too confusing for what it's worth. Also, even though you say the canisters would be reusable, if a trader is trading X cu goods one way, and Y cu goods back, s/he'd have to keep switching canisters, and would either need to sell the canisters (not much of a problem, as long as the crates sell for as much or more than they cost, but still annoying), or end up with big piles of crates in certain stations. Lastly, if the trader's going to be empty anyway, why wouldn't they sell the canisters as well, so losing their ship would still be an insignificant loss.
[Edit]
Possible ways to make PvP combat more profitable:
1. More bounties. Hopefully the coming illegal bounty system will help here.
2. Maybe make it so players carry a certain small percentage of their credits with them, which would be dropped as cargo crates if the player is destroyed.
[/edit]
Ok, as for 5. that was mainly aimed at these damn script miners, I ve encoutnered quite a few of them and killed them just to get shitty with me later saying i wasnt even there! When they are sittin there mining and ejecting cargo.
6. I know it is rather complex and was mainly just an idea, cuz like what was said, its way way too easy for traders to make money and dying is nothing at all to a trader, possibly jack the price up on the high cargo ships a nice chunk so its a bit more of a hit to them, its not like they cant afford it.
6. I know it is rather complex and was mainly just an idea, cuz like what was said, its way way too easy for traders to make money and dying is nothing at all to a trader, possibly jack the price up on the high cargo ships a nice chunk so its a bit more of a hit to them, its not like they cant afford it.
Tramshed are you sure they were script mining? They might have just been AFK for a minute or two?
they were jettisoning cargo, so yeah, either they were lying about not being there, or script mining.
The reason of trading is to fund your excursions.
If I however do not have a fondness for excursions in which I get blasted out of the sky wherever I go no matter what I do. ill stay in safe space also and grow filthy rich. In real life you do not get payed a lot either to be a sniper (for instance) but you might be payed more as a shroud(sp!) business person.
And no, I do not agree that heavy ships should be a target (as another thread should have probable made that clear). I do however agree that there should be tradeships that have no weapons but a lot of cargo, irrevolving from their size. With the specific role as to cater to individual needs and group oriented missions. (some people prefer agility, others armor...)
For all I care you add an atlas with twice the cargocapacity but 0 weaponports. Same for the centaur(but only double after it has been balanced), for the prom, ...
If I however do not have a fondness for excursions in which I get blasted out of the sky wherever I go no matter what I do. ill stay in safe space also and grow filthy rich. In real life you do not get payed a lot either to be a sniper (for instance) but you might be payed more as a shroud(sp!) business person.
And no, I do not agree that heavy ships should be a target (as another thread should have probable made that clear). I do however agree that there should be tradeships that have no weapons but a lot of cargo, irrevolving from their size. With the specific role as to cater to individual needs and group oriented missions. (some people prefer agility, others armor...)
For all I care you add an atlas with twice the cargocapacity but 0 weaponports. Same for the centaur(but only double after it has been balanced), for the prom, ...
From my limited experience with the game and with another FL mod, I can offer these observations.
Early on I found little to do with all my extra cash, I'm sure I need to poke around a bit more, but the ships seem to be pretty cheap and the weapons aren't too expensive either.
The problem is how to keep people from accumulating too much money. Otherwise it becomes worthless and it gets dull accumulating another $100,000 credits.
From what I've seen, the only expenses are buying new ships, equipment, ammo, and cargo. Presumably the cargo makes you money, so I won't count that. Of all the others, only ammo costs are recurring (if you don't die a lot).
What is needed are some recurring expenses for the miners/traders to increase their cost of doing business. Give them something to do with all that cash.
I've just been thinking of these off the top of my head, so I haven't checked the forum to see if others have suggested the same thing (sorry if they have).
1. Maintenance fees. Make people pay for repairs to their ships/guns.
2. Docking passes. People need to pay for the right to land at a base. Could be staged, one time passes, one week passes, one month, indefinite. With increasing prices for each.
3. Bribes. NPCs in the bars could offer info/faction standing adjustments for a fee (I know, sorta like freelancer). Perhaps you could bribe people to get certain equipment/missions that would otherwise be unavailable.
4. Protection money. Pay off the local pirates and they leave you alone for a while.
5. Hire a bot-- hire NPC bots to escort you.
6. Insurance -- pay a certain amount per day and if you die, you get your ship back for free. Rates may depend on your license levels, value of ship, region of coverage.
7. Storage fees -- you pay a price to store items at a base.
8. Guild Hangars -- allow guilds to rent a 'hangar' at a particular base. Members of the guild will then be allowed to access any equipment/ships left in the hangar.
9. Loan sharks -- Some NPCs in less regulated areas should be allowed to 'lend' money to players at an absurd interest rate. If you don't pay up by a certain time they put out a contract on you.
10 Increase the penalty for death -- make it hurt to die, as in you restart with a small amount of money (like $1000) and the starter ship again.... unless you bought insurance. That will make death something to be avoided at all cost.
Early on I found little to do with all my extra cash, I'm sure I need to poke around a bit more, but the ships seem to be pretty cheap and the weapons aren't too expensive either.
The problem is how to keep people from accumulating too much money. Otherwise it becomes worthless and it gets dull accumulating another $100,000 credits.
From what I've seen, the only expenses are buying new ships, equipment, ammo, and cargo. Presumably the cargo makes you money, so I won't count that. Of all the others, only ammo costs are recurring (if you don't die a lot).
What is needed are some recurring expenses for the miners/traders to increase their cost of doing business. Give them something to do with all that cash.
I've just been thinking of these off the top of my head, so I haven't checked the forum to see if others have suggested the same thing (sorry if they have).
1. Maintenance fees. Make people pay for repairs to their ships/guns.
2. Docking passes. People need to pay for the right to land at a base. Could be staged, one time passes, one week passes, one month, indefinite. With increasing prices for each.
3. Bribes. NPCs in the bars could offer info/faction standing adjustments for a fee (I know, sorta like freelancer). Perhaps you could bribe people to get certain equipment/missions that would otherwise be unavailable.
4. Protection money. Pay off the local pirates and they leave you alone for a while.
5. Hire a bot-- hire NPC bots to escort you.
6. Insurance -- pay a certain amount per day and if you die, you get your ship back for free. Rates may depend on your license levels, value of ship, region of coverage.
7. Storage fees -- you pay a price to store items at a base.
8. Guild Hangars -- allow guilds to rent a 'hangar' at a particular base. Members of the guild will then be allowed to access any equipment/ships left in the hangar.
9. Loan sharks -- Some NPCs in less regulated areas should be allowed to 'lend' money to players at an absurd interest rate. If you don't pay up by a certain time they put out a contract on you.
10 Increase the penalty for death -- make it hurt to die, as in you restart with a small amount of money (like $1000) and the starter ship again.... unless you bought insurance. That will make death something to be avoided at all cost.
first off, yes, please, let's make multiplayer coop something people want to do.
secondly, if one is going to tweak traders and miners to have less income, think very hard about what one is doing. now, I can only speak for myself, but here is my take on the situation:
1) I'm not overly good at PvP. I've played this game for a little over a week now.
2) I like to build and develop.
3) I take risks depending on the reward.
now, as of right now, it isn't really worth it for me to go deep into grey space. I'll drop by now and then, but rather rarely. but, if I made less money then now, or the risks were higher upon going into grey space, I'd _never_ go into grey space.
the money pirates get comes from traders and miners. it is money we deem we can afford to gamble with. offer me a contraband shipment deep into grey space, sure, I'll jump on it -- as long as the risk isn't extreme.
one solution to this is to make faction standing more relevant for sales of items, make it so a good standing is something to protect, and something that needs to be maintained. first off, this means that doing contraband et al is a risk since you'll loose standings if you get caught, and you'd have to work to get your standings up again. maybe some of the special trade routes that come up now and then should require a good standing?
also, pirates are offered another interesting possibility. if a person is found to move contraband, and they're rich and have a good standing, that'll hurt _bad_. the pirate could then use that information to extort the player, maybe over quite some time, before the incident slides into the annals of time. this could also lead to situations where richer and highstanding players pay other players to transport contraband, and so on. we can get a lot of ways to make money move between characters, which is, how I see it, the primary issue at the moment.
sure, some people will take the slow and safe routes, and will be pretty safe and rather rich. but, they're playing a game which alot of players will find boring. now, are we going to punish people for playing a version of the game we find boring?
and as I said, please keep in mind that miners and traders are the ones producing money. pirates can only get money already produced. make it difficult to produce money and you'll make damn sure people will stay _very_ clear of pirates.
Terje / Alamar.
secondly, if one is going to tweak traders and miners to have less income, think very hard about what one is doing. now, I can only speak for myself, but here is my take on the situation:
1) I'm not overly good at PvP. I've played this game for a little over a week now.
2) I like to build and develop.
3) I take risks depending on the reward.
now, as of right now, it isn't really worth it for me to go deep into grey space. I'll drop by now and then, but rather rarely. but, if I made less money then now, or the risks were higher upon going into grey space, I'd _never_ go into grey space.
the money pirates get comes from traders and miners. it is money we deem we can afford to gamble with. offer me a contraband shipment deep into grey space, sure, I'll jump on it -- as long as the risk isn't extreme.
one solution to this is to make faction standing more relevant for sales of items, make it so a good standing is something to protect, and something that needs to be maintained. first off, this means that doing contraband et al is a risk since you'll loose standings if you get caught, and you'd have to work to get your standings up again. maybe some of the special trade routes that come up now and then should require a good standing?
also, pirates are offered another interesting possibility. if a person is found to move contraband, and they're rich and have a good standing, that'll hurt _bad_. the pirate could then use that information to extort the player, maybe over quite some time, before the incident slides into the annals of time. this could also lead to situations where richer and highstanding players pay other players to transport contraband, and so on. we can get a lot of ways to make money move between characters, which is, how I see it, the primary issue at the moment.
sure, some people will take the slow and safe routes, and will be pretty safe and rather rich. but, they're playing a game which alot of players will find boring. now, are we going to punish people for playing a version of the game we find boring?
and as I said, please keep in mind that miners and traders are the ones producing money. pirates can only get money already produced. make it difficult to produce money and you'll make damn sure people will stay _very_ clear of pirates.
Terje / Alamar.
some comments to Furious' suggestions:
> 1. Maintenance fees. Make people pay for repairs to their
> ships/guns.
this will hurt pirates and PvP players more than anything else. just don't. :-)
> 2. Docking passes. People need to pay for the right to land at
> a base. Could be staged, one time passes, one week passes, one
> month, indefinite. With increasing prices for each.
good idea! and again, I'd like to make standings play a bigger part here. higher standings make for better and cheaper passes.
> 3. Bribes. NPCs in the bars could offer info/faction standing
> adjustments for a fee (I know, sorta like freelancer). Perhaps
> you could bribe people to get certain equipment/missions that
> would otherwise be unavailable.
yes! (getting caught costs standing. *cough*)
> 4. Protection money. Pay off the local pirates and they leave
> you alone for a while.
this works fine today. ask any pirate. :-)
> 5. Hire a bot-- hire NPC bots to escort you.
yes please. although, quite seriously, today there isn't a bot that'll even annoy the pirates we have in the game today. the best you can hope for is that it'll buy you time to run.
> 6. Insurance -- pay a certain amount per day and if you die,
> you get your ship back for free. Rates may depend on your
> license levels, value of ship, region of coverage.
yeah, insurance sounds like a good idea, but I'd more like to include cargo in the insurance.
> 7. Storage fees -- you pay a price to store items at a base.
not a bad idea at all. just make sure you don't cripple people wishing to store things for crafting!
> 8. Guild Hangars -- allow guilds to rent a 'hangar' at a
> particular base. Members of the guild will then be allowed to
> access any equipment/ships left in the hangar.
yes! more group / guild stuff! yes please!
> 9. Loan sharks -- Some NPCs in less regulated areas should be
> allowed to 'lend' money to players at an absurd interest rate.
> If you don't pay up by a certain time they put out a contract
> on you.
offer contraband. it's easier and much more likely to be used. noone will really have a strong enough need to borrow money to take the risk.
> 10 Increase the penalty for death -- make it hurt to die, as in
> you restart with a small amount of money (like $1000) and the
> starter ship again.... unless you bought insurance. That will
> make death something to be avoided at all cost.
no. you'll make damn sure a lot of people will never take chances. you'll end up with miners hardly leaving their home stations. :-/
> 1. Maintenance fees. Make people pay for repairs to their
> ships/guns.
this will hurt pirates and PvP players more than anything else. just don't. :-)
> 2. Docking passes. People need to pay for the right to land at
> a base. Could be staged, one time passes, one week passes, one
> month, indefinite. With increasing prices for each.
good idea! and again, I'd like to make standings play a bigger part here. higher standings make for better and cheaper passes.
> 3. Bribes. NPCs in the bars could offer info/faction standing
> adjustments for a fee (I know, sorta like freelancer). Perhaps
> you could bribe people to get certain equipment/missions that
> would otherwise be unavailable.
yes! (getting caught costs standing. *cough*)
> 4. Protection money. Pay off the local pirates and they leave
> you alone for a while.
this works fine today. ask any pirate. :-)
> 5. Hire a bot-- hire NPC bots to escort you.
yes please. although, quite seriously, today there isn't a bot that'll even annoy the pirates we have in the game today. the best you can hope for is that it'll buy you time to run.
> 6. Insurance -- pay a certain amount per day and if you die,
> you get your ship back for free. Rates may depend on your
> license levels, value of ship, region of coverage.
yeah, insurance sounds like a good idea, but I'd more like to include cargo in the insurance.
> 7. Storage fees -- you pay a price to store items at a base.
not a bad idea at all. just make sure you don't cripple people wishing to store things for crafting!
> 8. Guild Hangars -- allow guilds to rent a 'hangar' at a
> particular base. Members of the guild will then be allowed to
> access any equipment/ships left in the hangar.
yes! more group / guild stuff! yes please!
> 9. Loan sharks -- Some NPCs in less regulated areas should be
> allowed to 'lend' money to players at an absurd interest rate.
> If you don't pay up by a certain time they put out a contract
> on you.
offer contraband. it's easier and much more likely to be used. noone will really have a strong enough need to borrow money to take the risk.
> 10 Increase the penalty for death -- make it hurt to die, as in
> you restart with a small amount of money (like $1000) and the
> starter ship again.... unless you bought insurance. That will
> make death something to be avoided at all cost.
no. you'll make damn sure a lot of people will never take chances. you'll end up with miners hardly leaving their home stations. :-/
tramshed
just because someone is jettisoning cargo does not mean they are using a script to do it.
just because someone is jettisoning cargo does not mean they are using a script to do it.
tramshed
i see. so you actually saw them drop a cargo, but they gave no reply to your 'give me 20,000 or die' request?
that is quite interesting. someone woudl have to have a program to give vendetta the j, a, etc buttons properly.
if someone is truly using a script to mine i can only consider it an exploit, since the only thing it is good for is grinding your mining license and experience points.... which are the easiest points to get in the game anyways.
what can i say. if people truly are script mining, and you can prove it, i would like to see them harassed, bumped into interstellar space, brought down to 5 percent hull, etc. i dunno about straight out killing them though, their home might be several systems away.
i see. so you actually saw them drop a cargo, but they gave no reply to your 'give me 20,000 or die' request?
that is quite interesting. someone woudl have to have a program to give vendetta the j, a, etc buttons properly.
if someone is truly using a script to mine i can only consider it an exploit, since the only thing it is good for is grinding your mining license and experience points.... which are the easiest points to get in the game anyways.
what can i say. if people truly are script mining, and you can prove it, i would like to see them harassed, bumped into interstellar space, brought down to 5 percent hull, etc. i dunno about straight out killing them though, their home might be several systems away.
Furious,
the reason why I did not comment on the being to filthy rich part is because I do expect a couple moneysinks to be put in in the next couple months.
One of these moneysinks will be frigates. There will probably be others like the ability to name your ship, or design your own ship within some boundaries, or buy/confescate/seize stations although these last options are just ones of my imagination. Its just that the game is far from complete, and still rather basic as you highlighted in another thread. Mostly because the devs had to get some sustenance to contineou in making it a game they where picturing to be the ideal space game.
but if you make money to hard to come by, people will spend even less. I do not engage in fights when I don't have a couple mills stashed away safely in case I need them. I don't like being poor by my own fault... And Im sure that im not the only person with that tendency. And if you decrease the money I get from trading, your making me have to do the less fun part even more just to get some sort of safety. Maybe making it in stead of a fun and entertaining game into a chore. And we all know how much we hate chores ... especially if we have to pay for doing the chore.
cheers
EDIT: ananzi if somebody is scriptmining take it to the devs and let them check it. In stead of taking it (or suggesting to do so) in your own hands and maybe driving away paying customers. Beside as long as they don't hurt you and the devs don't mind(so took no action to impede or stop it) I don't see a real problem with it. Since if that is problematic we should ban the people that use the /roll command also, heck also the people that use the self adjusting fov command since that gives an unfair advantage to the person also not to mention that it is also using scripts like in a macro...
the reason why I did not comment on the being to filthy rich part is because I do expect a couple moneysinks to be put in in the next couple months.
One of these moneysinks will be frigates. There will probably be others like the ability to name your ship, or design your own ship within some boundaries, or buy/confescate/seize stations although these last options are just ones of my imagination. Its just that the game is far from complete, and still rather basic as you highlighted in another thread. Mostly because the devs had to get some sustenance to contineou in making it a game they where picturing to be the ideal space game.
but if you make money to hard to come by, people will spend even less. I do not engage in fights when I don't have a couple mills stashed away safely in case I need them. I don't like being poor by my own fault... And Im sure that im not the only person with that tendency. And if you decrease the money I get from trading, your making me have to do the less fun part even more just to get some sort of safety. Maybe making it in stead of a fun and entertaining game into a chore. And we all know how much we hate chores ... especially if we have to pay for doing the chore.
cheers
EDIT: ananzi if somebody is scriptmining take it to the devs and let them check it. In stead of taking it (or suggesting to do so) in your own hands and maybe driving away paying customers. Beside as long as they don't hurt you and the devs don't mind(so took no action to impede or stop it) I don't see a real problem with it. Since if that is problematic we should ban the people that use the /roll command also, heck also the people that use the self adjusting fov command since that gives an unfair advantage to the person also not to mention that it is also using scripts like in a macro...
'script mining' is where they have an external windows program that feeds input into vendetta. its like having a robot play for you, and its cheating.
it is nothing like '/roll' or dodge macros, those are specifically allowed by the devs otherwise they wouldnt put them in the game and document them in the manual. there is no macro you can make to auto-jettison your cargo while you mine.
but i will admit 'vigilante justice' on cheaters can be bad.
it is nothing like '/roll' or dodge macros, those are specifically allowed by the devs otherwise they wouldnt put them in the game and document them in the manual. there is no macro you can make to auto-jettison your cargo while you mine.
but i will admit 'vigilante justice' on cheaters can be bad.
I'll have to play this some more to get a better feel for the economics, but here are a few observations...
As a n00b, I was making reasonably decent money doing some basic trading/botting/etc... Got a couple of thousand and discovered that I didn't have anything to spend it on other than more trade goods. The ships weren't that expensive, the guns were fairly cheap. I was left wondering what the heck I was going to do with the cash.....
One of the ongoing problems with freelancer servers has always been what to do with the millions of credits you could amass in a short time. Buy a new ship? Not that expensive. Unless you buy a cap ship. They get expensive because you need to keep buying nanobots to fix it. But there are no ship maintenance costs here. So people keep accumulating millions of credits until there is really no point in doing it.
The point of the money sinks to maintain player motivation. If its all money in and no money out, then people get really rich and have no reason to leave the station. If you need another 100,000 to pay the rent on your guild hangar, then theres a good reason for you and your buds to go out and earn some.
Clearly some rebalancing of the economics would be required if some of these ideas were implemented. That might include adding some additional income sources. Smuggling could become a good income source. Perhaps ships (NPC or PC) from the opposing team could drop a bounty item that could be sold to the appropriate government for a hefty sum. How about betting on the outcome of a duel?
I'm not talking about making it impossible to make money, just a little harder. That just means it will take a little longer to get the amount you want. To me, the development and earning credits part of the game is the fun part. When there is no challenge left, because I have all I need, then there is no point in playing anymore.
---
For the record... several people seem to feel the need to apologize for the Devs when I post something a bit critical. No need. I understand their position perfectly and think they have done a great job so far. I am only interested in seeing it become a truly great game. If some of my input helps with that, great. If not, that's fine too. I'm sure several of the ideas I have mentioned have been thought of before, and if so, feel free to ignore them.
As a n00b, I was making reasonably decent money doing some basic trading/botting/etc... Got a couple of thousand and discovered that I didn't have anything to spend it on other than more trade goods. The ships weren't that expensive, the guns were fairly cheap. I was left wondering what the heck I was going to do with the cash.....
One of the ongoing problems with freelancer servers has always been what to do with the millions of credits you could amass in a short time. Buy a new ship? Not that expensive. Unless you buy a cap ship. They get expensive because you need to keep buying nanobots to fix it. But there are no ship maintenance costs here. So people keep accumulating millions of credits until there is really no point in doing it.
The point of the money sinks to maintain player motivation. If its all money in and no money out, then people get really rich and have no reason to leave the station. If you need another 100,000 to pay the rent on your guild hangar, then theres a good reason for you and your buds to go out and earn some.
Clearly some rebalancing of the economics would be required if some of these ideas were implemented. That might include adding some additional income sources. Smuggling could become a good income source. Perhaps ships (NPC or PC) from the opposing team could drop a bounty item that could be sold to the appropriate government for a hefty sum. How about betting on the outcome of a duel?
I'm not talking about making it impossible to make money, just a little harder. That just means it will take a little longer to get the amount you want. To me, the development and earning credits part of the game is the fun part. When there is no challenge left, because I have all I need, then there is no point in playing anymore.
---
For the record... several people seem to feel the need to apologize for the Devs when I post something a bit critical. No need. I understand their position perfectly and think they have done a great job so far. I am only interested in seeing it become a truly great game. If some of my input helps with that, great. If not, that's fine too. I'm sure several of the ideas I have mentioned have been thought of before, and if so, feel free to ignore them.
Furious, your saying it yourselve as a noob you were making some decent money. However the objective of the easy access to money is to have the ability to have pvp. It used to be that a noob every time he exitted his homesector ran into a pirate and got his ass owned (with the 1 sector homesector). Resulting in him being poor for at least 4 weeks untill he got some friends or some skill to protect himself. But even then the 'elite' pirates still owned his ass and made him poor. Only after 3 - 4 months these newbies were finally able to take on with some successrate these pirates. Although it was still a gamble, but all along the only thing they got was a blasted ship as soon as they exitted their protected home turf. Although during the rocketage they weren't even safe in there and multiple newbies got shot over and over and over again by the same so called pirates that we see now in grey space. (this is the only actual reason why I was and always will be against pirating, unless it is regulated by some severe repercussions, but ill not go into this further). But it just so you know wherefrom the present economy comes from. Besides as a newbie you haven't actually participated in any wars, ctc, duels,... and all these are in itself already moneysinks (although minor). But for a newbie getting access to easy credits makes them able to fiddle a bit around with some different type of ships to see which they like best, and I do consider that to be a good thing.
Also there is supposed to be introduced a bountyhunter system, this in itself proves to be a possible moneysink(at least the assasin one). Although we could say that you need to pay some taxes(based on your ships in cargo) to subsedize the government one.
I want to highlight another part furious, namely that for some people trading is actually the thing they hate(means to an end), and for this only having to do a bit of trading to be able to take part in the items they find fun/entertaining is in my eyes a good thing. Although since you like trading so much nothing stops you keep on trading since it will not only increase your wealth but also your standing,and that in itself is enough of a reward in my eyes. Although I still favour better missions which will be coming im sure.
EDIT: in my eyes even the /roll, the /+turbo and the /fov one are in fact cheats since you are not actually flying the ship anymore but letting a program do it for you(or are you pressing the buttons alternatingly???). We only need another command to be able to shoot on regular times to have a shooting bot. They are only documented because a lot of people like them and use them frequently. I consider these cheats especially if you consider the mining script to be one.
Also there is supposed to be introduced a bountyhunter system, this in itself proves to be a possible moneysink(at least the assasin one). Although we could say that you need to pay some taxes(based on your ships in cargo) to subsedize the government one.
I want to highlight another part furious, namely that for some people trading is actually the thing they hate(means to an end), and for this only having to do a bit of trading to be able to take part in the items they find fun/entertaining is in my eyes a good thing. Although since you like trading so much nothing stops you keep on trading since it will not only increase your wealth but also your standing,and that in itself is enough of a reward in my eyes. Although I still favour better missions which will be coming im sure.
EDIT: in my eyes even the /roll, the /+turbo and the /fov one are in fact cheats since you are not actually flying the ship anymore but letting a program do it for you(or are you pressing the buttons alternatingly???). We only need another command to be able to shoot on regular times to have a shooting bot. They are only documented because a lot of people like them and use them frequently. I consider these cheats especially if you consider the mining script to be one.
<ot>
> in my eyes even the /roll, the /+turbo and the /fov one are in fact cheats since
> you are not actually flying the ship anymore but letting a program do it for you
Last time I checked, I wasn't physically flying my ship, I was pressing keys that tell the program how to fly it. :P
I use the /+turbo command when I'm going afk for a minute (bathroom break, etc.) and the /roll command when I'm looking for a little excitement. I think you're referring to people that use these in aliases to make dodging automatic. I once made a dodge bind; I got bored with it after about two minutes. They are lame, and they don't work anyway.
</ot>
<ot>
I'm always broke, or close to broke. I'd like to keep it this way. Hopefully cap ships will be a moneysink so I'll have a reason to change my ways. (when you never die, and have no operating costs, you don't need much more savings than to pay for a 20k ship.)
</ot>
-:sigma.SB
> in my eyes even the /roll, the /+turbo and the /fov one are in fact cheats since
> you are not actually flying the ship anymore but letting a program do it for you
Last time I checked, I wasn't physically flying my ship, I was pressing keys that tell the program how to fly it. :P
I use the /+turbo command when I'm going afk for a minute (bathroom break, etc.) and the /roll command when I'm looking for a little excitement. I think you're referring to people that use these in aliases to make dodging automatic. I once made a dodge bind; I got bored with it after about two minutes. They are lame, and they don't work anyway.
</ot>
<ot>
I'm always broke, or close to broke. I'd like to keep it this way. Hopefully cap ships will be a moneysink so I'll have a reason to change my ways. (when you never die, and have no operating costs, you don't need much more savings than to pay for a 20k ship.)
</ot>
-:sigma.SB