I firmly believe the first few hours of gameplay are the most important for any player, and as much fun as Vendetta is to me I also think that this is where VO needs the most work. One way I think the introductory experience of a new player could be improved is to make a few more weapon types available right off the bat. Right now the only two weapons a new player can get are a plasma cannon and a slightly better but otherwise identical plasma cannon. There are plenty of cool weapons in Vendetta, but a newbie really has no way of knowing that, and the game doesn't do a lot to show new players what's out there. Remember, an addicted veteran will work for hours and hours to get a neat new item or weapon, but a newbie may get frustrated and quit for good within the first hour. Lowering the xp requirement for level 1 was a step in the right direction, but I still think the player should be immediately given a taste of the variety of weapons in Vendetta, provided the weapons are balanced with the plasma cannon. Two prime candidates for alternate newbie weapons available at level 0 are the yellowjacket launcher and the iceflare launcher.

There are several reasons why I think these weapons should be available to buy at level 0. First of all, neither one is overpowered. A newbie would do well to kill two or three orun bots with a yellowjacket launcher, and no one can deny that the iceflare is the definition of a nerf gun.

Second, as weak as these weapons may be, they both look damn cool, and they provide a taste of a variety of weapon types that are out there. The yellowjacket has a neat looking fire trail, the iceflare has its proximity detonation. My younger brother was watching as I hit a bot with a rocket and noted "It's cool how the rocket explodes when it gets close."

If a newbie is getting frustrated with killing bots using the plasma cannon, at least they can try out a few different weapon types and get a taste for what's out there. Perhaps they will find they are naturally good with rockets or they just like the way missiles look and work on getting better missiles. In the end they will probably realise that the plasma cannon mk II is better anyway and go back to using that, but they will at least have an idea for the different kinds of weapons in store for them. I think having a variety of weapon types available to newbs when they first start would be a big improvement to the opening game of Vendetta.

that's an awesome idea.
the yellowjackets and iceflares really are about level 0 weapons, and this would not upset balance.

maybe some new players would realize that energy is probably best right now, but at least we give them options :).

I also hope there is some sort of... large port bus. with a weak large port weapon?

this is a good idea Phaer, while we are at it, lets make the gatling cannon (not the turret) a level 0 weapon. It seems to me that its the prefect choice for a starter L-port energy weapon.

I couldn't agree more, Spellcast. And bump the Starflare launcher down to the HW1 license slot vacated by the yellowjacket.

On a related note I think wylfing does a great job of illustrating the problem in this thread:
http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/1/8104?page=2

I would tend to somewhat disagree with Phaserlight.

I am a relatively new (2 months) player here, and to give absolute new folks (within their 8 hour or 30 day trial) uber new weapons would be the same as giving a newly licensed driver the keys to a Ferrari.

Although the first few hours of gameplay are critical to keeping a new person's interest in the game, as evidenced by the latest patch to make the first three levels a bit easier, the most important part is learning how all the pieces fit together.

With that I mean that if you give a new player an uber newbie weapon, all they are gonna do is go out and get killed several times whilst doing the Advanced Combat Mission, and then they will wonder why they died... After all, they had the uber newbie weapon, right?

There is a relationship between credits and ships/weapons that are available, and also the ability to afford to make the mistakes all us new players make when we die. There are basics to this game, and some of the basics include playing with a shovel before we get to play with a diesel powered trench digger.

just my 2 credits worth... :)

WC

What you say is true, WC, and I agree with you to a certain extent, however you are missing one critical piece of information...

Neither the Yellowjacket launcher or the Iceflare launcher are uber in any sense of the word, in fact, the plasma cannon mkII (available at level 0) is arguably a much better weapon than either of these. Try these weapons out in a bus and you will see what I mean.

While its true that you should have somethign to work toward, I don't think it's the right approach to limit new players to a single weapon type. The first few hours of gameplay should WOW the player, and for the reasons I stated in my first post, I think letting newbs try the yellowjacket and iceflare would help in this respect. Imho, Vendetta tends to save its best features for higher level players when it should spend more time showing off its cooler features to newbies. As long as game balance is not upset, new players deserve a little more variety than the EC-88 and a plasma cannon.

It wouldn't be like giving a newb keys to a Ferrari, it would be like giving a newb a choice between driving a VW Bug or a Honda Civic.

couldn't agree more. in addition, i would make the starter energy weapon the ion blaster (and perhaps eliminate the plasma cannon and variants entirely - i don't see why any of the three nations would ever equip a ship with them).

i suppose if the plasma cannon line were L-slot weapons similar to the plasma devastator, that might be a good use for them (though they'd need a significant damage boost in order to be relevant).

ok, so i have only been playing for about 6 hours of the 8 hours demo and have found myself going, "is this really all there is?"
but i think TheLadyWhitecat hit one of the spots bothering me with "as giving a newly licensed driver the keys to a Ferrari." there are newly licensed drivers that get ferraris(not me but there are) i have really found the license requirments tedious at best. in real life if you go to a gun show they won't say, "whoa there, you can only buy this knife or blowgun."
granted i'm coming into VO from playing and loving the EV, EVO, EV NOVA games but i really think VO could get some good ideas from looking at that series. if i had to suggest something it would be, drop the licenses(or make them something you just have to purchase) and up up up the prices of everything especialy the ships. if there are uber weapons that you want to limit, then make part of joining the military or something, which might only give you military missions but access to those weapons. even then i feel the need to point out, nobody in military service has ever had to buy there own nuclear missle.
but something about the world just doesn't seem right when two boxes of junk or screwdrivers can buy a ship, so i think pricing should be the natural progression obstacle and not experience points.

Ok... this is NOT a ferrari we're talking about. We're talking about weps that are NEVER used, because they're ALWAYS too weak. That being the case, I think this is a good idea. They would actually see play, and noobs would begin to specialize in energy/ rockets from the beginning. Sounds like great training to me.

[stamp of approval]

madisonsuicide:

Cost is a bad way to provide balance, especially in a game such as this. We had a situation where cost was the only balance back in the alpha, and it sucked. What happens is that new players end up begging for cash, buying a super ship, dying repeatedly because they never learned the basics, and never learning how to fend for themselves.

Additionally having cash as the only progression eliminates one of the things that IMO makes vendetta so good. the fact that everyone, no matter who they know, has to start from teh same place. In other games a new player can be buffed out by an experienced player to the point where the creatures(bots) appropriate to his/her level dont provide any challenge at all. With vendettas license system, this is impossible, which IMO is a good thing.

I see what all of you are saying and I do agree that these two weapons are not anything spectacular, and quite likely my analogy was a bit over-stated by comparing them to something like a Ferrari.

There have been some interesting and thought provoking ideas stated here that have caused me to reconsider my opinion(s).

Thank you all for the intelligent discussion. :)

WC

I quite agree on both of theese, they would certainly make more fun gameplay. Although I'd prefer to push them to level 1 instead of level 0 (make the gatling cannon level 0 heavy, and move the stingrays to level 1 Heavy ) .. Why? Because at level 1 they are visible, and right now, level 1 is quite easily attained.

"What happens is that new players end up begging for cash, buying a super ship, dying repeatedly because they never learned the basics, and never learning how to fend for themselves"

and how is this different to as it is now? im 8/10/10/7/4 and I suck at PvP...botting /= skill. If anything the 'money+standing' system would make people more likely to fight others and improve their PvP ability (im sure that in alpha you fought a lot).

The other diffence is that all the levelling makes people rich. By forcing people to level, you force them to become rich. Currently I have 3 million and nothing to spend it on...yeah, get a valk, PvP, boom...repeat. If people werent forced to level, IMO they wouldnt make as much money, meaning that losses start to actually matter.

IMHO levelling is not good gameplay, it tends to be a mechanic to prevent players getting all the content too fast. But with vendetta power-levellers can get through all the content fast enough to make it a bit of a joke - as there effectively only 10 levels.

Feel free to disagree, its just my lowly opinion...

myko wrote (in part) "IMHO levelling is not good gameplay, it tends to be a mechanic to prevent players getting all the content too fast. But with vendetta power-levellers can get through all the content fast enough to make it a bit of a joke - as there effectively only 10 levels."

I don't disagree, I just am wondering how a game (this one in particular) would allow players to advance without some form of levelling? (I prefer the term "score keeping" it seems more accurate IMO)

If cash were used to keep score, wouldn't that be the same as saying "when you get to xx license level, you get Neutron III weps" instead of "when you get 3 million, you get Neutron III weps"? I am saying that there must be -some- kind of method to keep score...

Power levelling has it's advantages and disadvantages... the advantages basically go to the new or less experienced player, because that new or less experienced player doesn't even have to do anything to get the points... the disadvantages generally effect the more experienced player because they have to kill more to get the same effect as they would have without grouping the other player.

I will say that I absolutely was power levelled in my lower license levels and I was glad for it... but there came a point when I realized that if I recieved all my levels that way, then even though I was a level 13 in Heavy Weapons, I wouldn't be able to really (for true) fight worth a crap. So, I decided to start getting my own levels for my own pride in a task well-accomplished.

The whole point here is that levels (or "score keeping") do not seem to be the way to cause players to participate more in PvP. I'm not sure what it would take to cause that to happen, I just don't think that a different style of "score keeping" would influence that.

Best Regards,

WC

Things like Capture-the-Convoy propagate PvP, as did CTF way back when. When CTF was taken out, the amount of PvP dropped pretty quick, with everyone concentrating on getting levels.

In short, it's missions where players are matched against players, with rewards that affect your performance in-game, or provide an unique score for you or your team.

Classical motivation theory.

So... how about it Devs? Any chance we'll see a license requirement (/item cost) update in the future?

Ever use an Iceflare? Don't try to tell me THAT's more effective than a TachIII.
-:sigma.SB

lol... ah yes, iceflares... neut III bane! LMAO

now, if sunflares were neut3 weight... and same level...