Forums » Suggestions
It causes more drama in this game. I don't see any purpose for a plugin exposing all of a player alts. Just remove it so we never have to hear about it again.
+0 Edited to reflect my evolving position.
+1
it even exists!? +1 to removal.
unless it does something else that we need.
[Edit] nevermind, see below
unless it does something else that we need.
[Edit] nevermind, see below
+1
Death to TGFT
Death to TGFT
+1
-1
care to explain why, Gavin?
If that function is removed from the sandbox then it will kill the ability to share button configurations within DroidButtons across characters.
+1
I guess that's a price we have to pay for privacy, draugath
I guess that's a price we have to pay for privacy, draugath
My mind is boggled. "I can't be trusted not to put things in my mouth when I see them, so please remove all knives from the kitchen area."
If you want to use plugins, take some responsibility for your own actions. Either don't install plugins from people you don't trust or accept that the plugins you get from people other than yourself might not have your best interests at heart.
Posting a suggestion to remove a function from the plugin api because you need more adult supervision when downloading and installing random files from the internet is a sick burn you've just pulled on yourself.
If you want to use plugins, take some responsibility for your own actions. Either don't install plugins from people you don't trust or accept that the plugins you get from people other than yourself might not have your best interests at heart.
Posting a suggestion to remove a function from the plugin api because you need more adult supervision when downloading and installing random files from the internet is a sick burn you've just pulled on yourself.
For me, this isn't about personal responsibility- which everyone should take. But about mitigating the opportunity for perpetuating the drama that imo ruins the game experience for myself and probably a lot of other people as well.
I don't personally care if people / guilds use alt finders. I thought the one that was used was clever and given my understanding of how it was used, reasonable. If you want to join our guild, I'm going to ask you to install and run this plugin so that I can be reasonably sure that you aren't an enemy. easy to get around if you know it's coming by creating a new account with no other characters.
However, something like that could easily be slipped into any plugin in such a way that it would be almost unnoticeable.
I am thinking back to the so called TGFT 'honeypot' plugin that still get's referenced by it's enemies and all of the drama that caused. It is a shame that guilds that operate from a defensive or non aggressive stance feel the need to create tools that give them an edge against the more aggressive enemies in the game that actively work to do harm to the guild. It doesn't justify using questionable tactics, but I do understand the rationalization.
I'd rather not have any tools or toys removed from the game. In my opinion the atmosphere in VO is heading the right direction and maybe this OP is being a bit reactionary to the current issue. Let's have some debate on the merits and problems that the OP would cause.
Edit: Just to clarify the point I was trying to make, it's not about protecting the players who might use the plugin but about forestalling the handful of players who would use this to endlessly perpetuate negative rhetoric against players and guilds that are discovered to have used something like this. I would much rather have instances reported through support tickets to GS as incarnate and the moderators have repeatedly asked for than to have this taken out of the game. Unfortunately as the thread in Role Play illustrates, the current player base cannot be trusted to follow simple instructions.
I don't personally care if people / guilds use alt finders. I thought the one that was used was clever and given my understanding of how it was used, reasonable. If you want to join our guild, I'm going to ask you to install and run this plugin so that I can be reasonably sure that you aren't an enemy. easy to get around if you know it's coming by creating a new account with no other characters.
However, something like that could easily be slipped into any plugin in such a way that it would be almost unnoticeable.
I am thinking back to the so called TGFT 'honeypot' plugin that still get's referenced by it's enemies and all of the drama that caused. It is a shame that guilds that operate from a defensive or non aggressive stance feel the need to create tools that give them an edge against the more aggressive enemies in the game that actively work to do harm to the guild. It doesn't justify using questionable tactics, but I do understand the rationalization.
I'd rather not have any tools or toys removed from the game. In my opinion the atmosphere in VO is heading the right direction and maybe this OP is being a bit reactionary to the current issue. Let's have some debate on the merits and problems that the OP would cause.
Edit: Just to clarify the point I was trying to make, it's not about protecting the players who might use the plugin but about forestalling the handful of players who would use this to endlessly perpetuate negative rhetoric against players and guilds that are discovered to have used something like this. I would much rather have instances reported through support tickets to GS as incarnate and the moderators have repeatedly asked for than to have this taken out of the game. Unfortunately as the thread in Role Play illustrates, the current player base cannot be trusted to follow simple instructions.
This all sounds like a good reason to have a centralized plugin distribution system where the code is checked before being released to the player base.
As not everyone knows how to read code this really should be implemented to protect those players. Before you go with the "well if they don't trust it they shouldn't install it" BS, plugins in this game do provide advantages over not using plugins. The playing field should be level for ALL players regardless of platform. There is no level playing field in VO. The VO motto should be "who codes wins".
I'm sure all the little plugin writers will disagree with this point of view but the only reason to write plugins is to gain an advantage.
As not everyone knows how to read code this really should be implemented to protect those players. Before you go with the "well if they don't trust it they shouldn't install it" BS, plugins in this game do provide advantages over not using plugins. The playing field should be level for ALL players regardless of platform. There is no level playing field in VO. The VO motto should be "who codes wins".
I'm sure all the little plugin writers will disagree with this point of view but the only reason to write plugins is to gain an advantage.
The more I think about it, the more I'm inclined to say handle it through support tickets and let GS and the moderators clamp down on the drama when necessary. I think I may have had a knee jerk reaction here. Why undermine options that facilitate a better in game experience for a few people who blow things out of proportion. I have changed my vote to a 0 as I am open to being re persuaded in favor. After all, if we go after every function that could be abused in some way, we could end up doing the game more harm than good.
-1.
"I am thinking back to the so called TGFT 'honeypot' plugin that still get's referenced by it's enemies and all of the drama that caused."
I just want to point out that TGFT_Utils did not use GetCharacterInfo in the first place. Yes, it could potentially reveal alts, but it did not do so by literally querying the game for a list of your alts. Removing that API call would not have impacted that plugin and the drama around it at all.
"This all sounds like a good reason to have a centralized plugin distribution system where the code is checked before being released to the player base."
I understand where you're coming from, but no, it isn't a good reason to do that. Doing so would impose unnecessary delays in posting bugfixes, not to mention make the process of developing and testing plugins a lot more troublesome. Not just to us, either. Somebody would have to perform that code checking, which means either the devs spend time doing it themselves, or they hire somebody to do it and then spend time managing those people and dealing with claims of abuse, or they outsource it to the community for free and spend a lot of time managing us and dealing with a greater number of claims of abuse.
A better solution would be to require plugins to include a file or function where they enumerate the various bits of functionality they are going to need (the game would refuse to provide functionality that is not listed). Then add a plugin manager that would read that list to show the user which bits of functionality a plugin will be using without having to read through the code themselves. This would be similar to installing an app on Android, where it lists all the features of your phone that the app will potentially be using. That way a plugin could not send data to a remote server, access the guild bank, or whatever else without making it clear to the user that they will do that.
Doing it this way avoids the need for human oversight and minimizes the burden to both the devs and the plugin developers.
That said, I have no idea how the game actually handles plugins at a low level, so doing things this way might not be practical.
"I am thinking back to the so called TGFT 'honeypot' plugin that still get's referenced by it's enemies and all of the drama that caused."
I just want to point out that TGFT_Utils did not use GetCharacterInfo in the first place. Yes, it could potentially reveal alts, but it did not do so by literally querying the game for a list of your alts. Removing that API call would not have impacted that plugin and the drama around it at all.
"This all sounds like a good reason to have a centralized plugin distribution system where the code is checked before being released to the player base."
I understand where you're coming from, but no, it isn't a good reason to do that. Doing so would impose unnecessary delays in posting bugfixes, not to mention make the process of developing and testing plugins a lot more troublesome. Not just to us, either. Somebody would have to perform that code checking, which means either the devs spend time doing it themselves, or they hire somebody to do it and then spend time managing those people and dealing with claims of abuse, or they outsource it to the community for free and spend a lot of time managing us and dealing with a greater number of claims of abuse.
A better solution would be to require plugins to include a file or function where they enumerate the various bits of functionality they are going to need (the game would refuse to provide functionality that is not listed). Then add a plugin manager that would read that list to show the user which bits of functionality a plugin will be using without having to read through the code themselves. This would be similar to installing an app on Android, where it lists all the features of your phone that the app will potentially be using. That way a plugin could not send data to a remote server, access the guild bank, or whatever else without making it clear to the user that they will do that.
Doing it this way avoids the need for human oversight and minimizes the burden to both the devs and the plugin developers.
That said, I have no idea how the game actually handles plugins at a low level, so doing things this way might not be practical.
Regardless of what the actual API is, this just enflames the already inherent distrust of the alt system and adds to the toxicity our community is known for. Im sure this will happen again. Alts are really the problem but we all like to straddle those ambiguous lines to have our cake and eat it too. Even without these plugins we have toxicity built in to the game. Watch the shitstorm ensue in RP thread on any given day of the week for more of the same.
If the playing field were level, we'd all have free tridents, entire roid databases, alt scripts, all the lag, etc.
So incarnate, if you can't fix 100, why not fix something meaningful thats been contributing to the toxicity in the first place?
If the playing field were level, we'd all have free tridents, entire roid databases, alt scripts, all the lag, etc.
So incarnate, if you can't fix 100, why not fix something meaningful thats been contributing to the toxicity in the first place?
Lol hey you guys remember that game we always bitch about not having new features?? Let's go suggest that they remove one... ^_^
Same here, being dissuaded, since I do use DB when I go mobile. In regards to having files checked, perhaps VOUPR.com can be modified to have the community flag files for this sorta stuff? With enough flags, the file gets a mark on it that sais "could be dangerous"? For files sent privately or such, it would still be up to the individual to check, i guess.
Voupr is not a centralized repository. I assure you, this scammer plugin that seeks to out your alts is not on Voupr along with many other nefarious plugins that players keep secret.
GetCharacterInfo
Definition:
GetCharacterInfo(int cslot) -> string name faction int money kills deaths loc home cl ll hl tl ml
Description:
Get information about your characters
Uh guys what are you griping about? - this will only retrieve info on YOUR characters
It will not return info about anyone else and it is required for the game operation.
If there is a plug that reads this and returns data to an outside party please post the guilty plugs name for us.
Definition:
GetCharacterInfo(int cslot) -> string name faction int money kills deaths loc home cl ll hl tl ml
Description:
Get information about your characters
Uh guys what are you griping about? - this will only retrieve info on YOUR characters
It will not return info about anyone else and it is required for the game operation.
If there is a plug that reads this and returns data to an outside party please post the guilty plugs name for us.