So, there have been a number of suggestions that the relative "balance" of ships was far superior prior to my hacking off the top-speeds of a number of vessels back in April of 2006. This issue has been raised recently, and was also brought up last year, which included some good historical research by Genka.

I've been under the impression (from my own looking, and what others told me) that we didn't really have the information necessary to cobble together the "state" of the game at the desired point. The original "objtable" data was blown away at one point, and wasn't in revision control, and then later its format was changed and it was in revision control, and then still later still was moved into the dynamic database system (which does not have revision control).

But, after some digging around tonight and help from Ray, it looks like I have found what we're looking for? The update that capped the high-speed ships back to 220m/s happened on April 1st 2006. I've found a copy of the state of things from about a month before then.

I also have a copy from December of 2004, but I don't really think that's what you guys are looking for. There are a lot of tweaks between that and ~Feb of 2006, but they look like a lot of valid balance changes, although I'm not going through them one by one.

I'm posting this entire pre-nerf 2006 raw data for people to examine and debate how they like. If people want to take every ship's original (pre-nerf) turbo-thrust/top-speed, and dial them all back by 10% in relative fashion across the board, and then make the current stats use those numbers, I'm not against that.

We're really, really busy right now, and my time is limited (and is actually getting worse from now through GDC), but in theory if there's a good consensus on this, it should really just be a bunch of SQL commands to update all of this.

-- "ShipObject" entries create a ship item and a ship object. Also, if "EngineObjectType" is
-- not specified, (and _defaultengine ~= false), an engine addon/item will be created for that
-- ship.

return {
-------------------
-- Ships!

_Ship = {
_type = "ShipObject",
_class = "StdShipClass",
_state = "Ship",
_hidden = true,

BrakeConst = 210,
BrakePoint = 8,
MaxSpeed = 65,
SpinConst = 7000,
SpinDamperConst = 4000,
ThrustConst = 210,
TurboEnergyUsage = 50,
TurboMaxSpeed = 200,
TurboThrustConst = 210,
EnergyUsage = 0,

ExhaustType = "ShipExhaust01",
EngineIcon = "images/icon_addon_engine.png",
EngineSound = "ship.engine.heavy",
EngineSoundTurbo = "ship.engine.turbo",
EngineSoundBOV = "ship.engine.bov",
EngineSoundIdleFreq = 15000,
EngineSoundWOTFreq = 28000,
TurboFXType = "TurboBurst01",
LongDesc = " ",
},

-- EC88
_EC = { "_Ship",
_hidden = true,

LongDesc = [[The EC family of multipurpose spacecraft forms the broad base of general ship use in the galaxy. Originally designed and
manufactured as a transport by TPG during the early years of UIT off-world colonization, it now sees wide use with all nations. Whether
the needs are basic combat, light transport duty, even mining or other special-case uses, the EC series can handle it all. It is not
considered a specialized ship, but there are many variants of it that lend themselves better to one type of use or another. For instance,
the Axia EC-101 MkII provides heavier armor for combat use, while the Valent Robotics EC-101 Type B includes expanded cargo capacity for
trading or transport usage.]],
MeshName = "ship_generic_ec88",
MeshFile = "gaf/ship_generic_ec88.pm",
Icon = "images/icon_ship_ec88.png",
Length = 10,
},
freeship = { "_EC",
Name = "EC-88",
Desc = "Government-issued EC-88 fighter/transport",
Mass = 4.2,
HitPoints = 6000,
Cargo = 18,
ControlParams = 4,
ActivePorts = "Weapon0=port01,0",
DefaultWeaponGroups = "0=Weapon0",
EngineObjectType = "FreeEngine",
TurboEnergyUsage = 45,
PowerObjectType = "FreeBattery",
Weapon0 = "FreeLaserCannon01",
},
ship_generic_ec101 = { "_EC",
Name = "EC-101",
Desc = "EC-88 Fighter/Transport (Armored Variant)",
Mass = 4.5,
HitPoints = 6500,
Cargo = 18,
ControlParams = 4,
ActivePorts = "Small Port=port01,0",
DefaultWeaponGroups = "0=Small Port",

BrakeConst = 190,
MaxSpeed = 55,
SoundIdleFreq = 15000,
SoundWOTFreq = 28000,
SpinConst = 6500,
ThrustConst = 190,
TurboEnergyUsage = 50,
TurboMaxSpeed = 180,
TurboThrustConst = 190,
},
ship_generic_ec101mkII = { "ship_generic_ec101",
Name = "Axia EC-101 MkII",
Desc = "EC-88 Fighter/Transport (Assault Variant)",
Mass = 3.8,
Cargo = 14,
ActivePorts = "Small Port - Left=port02,0|Small Port - Right=port03,0",
DefaultWeaponGroups = "0=Small Port - Left,Small Port - Right",

BrakeConst = 210,
MaxSpeed = 65,
SoundIdleFreq = 15000,
SoundWOTFreq = 28000,
SpinConst = 7000,
ThrustConst = 210,
TurboEnergyUsage = 50,
TurboMaxSpeed = 200,
TurboThrustConst = 210,
},
ship_generic_ec101typeB = { "ship_generic_ec101mkII",
Name = "Valent EC-101 Type B",
Desc = "EC-88 Fighter/Transport (Cargo Transport Variant)",
Mass = 4,
HitPoints = 6200,
Cargo = 22,

BrakeConst = 210,
MaxSpeed = 65,
SoundIdleFreq = 15000,
SoundWOTFreq = 28000,
SpinConst = 7000,
ThrustConst = 210,
TurboEnergyUsage = 50,
TurboMaxSpeed = 200,
TurboThrustConst = 210,
},
ship_generic_ec107 = { "ship_generic_ec101mkII",
Name = "EC-107",
Desc = "EC-107 Fighter/Transport (Hunter Variant)",
Mass = 3.7,
HitPoints = 6800,
Cargo = 12,

BrakeConst = 210,
MaxSpeed = 65,
SoundIdleFreq = 15000,
SoundWOTFreq = 28000,
SpinConst = 7000,
ThrustConst = 210,
TurboEnergyUsage = 50,
TurboMaxSpeed = 210,
TurboThrustConst = 220,
},
ship_generic_ec98 = { "ship_generic_ec101",
Name = "EC-98",
Desc = "EC-88 Fighter/Transport (Basic Fighter Variant)",
Mass = 4,
HitPoints = 6000,
Cargo = 18,

MaxSpeed = 45,
SpinConst = 5500,
ThrustConst = 140,
TurboEnergyUsage = 50,
TurboMaxSpeed = 170,
TurboThrustConst = 140,
},

-- New Centurion
centurion = { "_Ship",
Name = "Centurion",
Desc = "Centurion Light Fighter",
LongDesc = [[The Centurion series of light fighter-interceptors, originally based on an Itani design, was derived from ships long used
for flight training and aerobatics by the Order of Itan. Now widely copied, variants of this basic configuration can be found in almost
every corner of populated space. The distinguishing factors of the Centurion series are high speed and good maneuverability, but a relatively
limited number of weapons configuration ports, due to its original design as a peacetime trainer. Some adaptations, most notably the
Border Guardian developed for the Itani military and the 'Rev C' version made by the Orion Heavy Manufacturing Corp (UIT space) have
proven very effective in modern combat usage.]],
Length = 10,
MeshName = "ship_generic_centurion",
MeshFile = "gaf/ship_generic_centurion.pm",
Icon = "images/icon_ship_centurion.png",
Mass = 4.2,
HitPoints = 6500,
Cargo = 8,
ControlParams = 4.25,
ActivePorts = "Small Port=port01,0",
DefaultWeaponGroups = "0=Small Port",
Explosion = "StdExplosion",

SoundIdleFreq = 20000,
SoundWOTFreq = 40000,
SpinConst = 6000,
BrakeConst = 220,
BrakePoint = 8,
MaxSpeed = 55,
ThrustConst = 210,
TurboEnergyUsage = 55,
TurboMaxSpeed = 220,
TurboThrustConst = 220,
EnergyUsage = 0,
},
centurionIBG = { "centurion",
Name = "Centurion Itani Border Guardian",
Desc = "Centurion Light Fighter (Advanced Assault Variant)",
Mass = 3.0,
HitPoints = 7200,
Cargo = 4,
ActivePorts = "Small Port - Left=port02,0|Small Port - Right=port03,0",
DefaultWeaponGroups = "0=Small Port - Left,Small Port - Right",

MaxSpeed = 70,
SpinConst = 7000,
BrakeConst = 260,
ThrustConst = 218,
TurboMaxSpeed = 240,
TurboThrustConst = 240,
TurboEnergyUsage = 65,
},
centurionMkII = { "centurion",
Name = "Centurion MkII",
Desc = "Centurion Light Fighter (Cargo Transport Variant)",
Mass = 4.8,
Cargo = 11,

BrakeConst = 200,
MaxSpeed = 60,
SoundIdleFreq = 15000,
SoundWOTFreq = 28000,
SpinConst = 6500,
ThrustConst = 200,
TurboEnergyUsage = 55,
TurboMaxSpeed = 230,
TurboThrustConst = 200,
},
centurionMkIII = { "centurion",
Name = "Centurion MkIII",
Desc = "Centurion Light Fighter (Assault Variant)",
HitPoints = 6700,

BrakeConst = 240,
MaxSpeed = 65,
SoundIdleFreq = 15000,
SoundWOTFreq = 28000,
SpinConst = 7000,
ThrustConst = 215,
TurboEnergyUsage = 60,
TurboMaxSpeed = 240,
TurboThrustConst = 220,
},
centurionRevC = { "centurion",
Name = "Orion Centurion Rev C",
Desc = "Centurion Light Fighter (Advanced Assault Variant)",
HitPoints = 7000,
Cargo = 6,
Mass = 3.2,
ActivePorts = "Small Port - Left=port02,0|Small Port - Right=port03,0",
DefaultWeaponGroups = "0=Small Port - Left,Small Port - Right",

BrakeConst = 260,
MaxSpeed = 70,
SoundIdleFreq = 15000,
SoundWOTFreq = 28000,
SpinConst = 7000,
ThrustConst = 218,
TurboEnergyUsage = 65,
TurboMaxSpeed = 240,
TurboThrustConst = 230,
},

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-- Warthog
warthog = { "_Ship",
Name = "Warthog",
Desc = "Warthog Small Attack Ship",
LongDesc = [[The Warthog series of attack ships bridges the gap between the more maneuverable fighter craft and the heavier bomber and
all-purpose assault vessels. These ships provide near-fighter-like agility, while still retaining heavier armor and the ability to equip
the Large-Port addons. A number of variants exist, such as the Mineral Extractor, which has been customized
for mining usage in dangerous regions without fighter support.]],
Length = 10,
MeshName = "ship_generic_warthog",
MeshFile = "gaf/ship_generic_warthog.dfs",
Icon = "images/icon_ship_warthog.png",
Mass = 6,
HitPoints = 9400,
Cargo = 8,
ControlParams = 4.25,
ActivePorts = "Small Port=port01,0|Large Port=port08,1",
DefaultWeaponGroups = "0=Small Port|2=Large Port",

BrakeConst = 190,
MaxSpeed = 55,
Sound = "ship.engine.heavy",
SoundIdleFreq = 15000,
SoundWOTFreq = 28000,
SpinConst = 7000,
ThrustConst = 220,
TurboEnergyUsage = 50,
TurboMaxSpeed = 180,
TurboThrustConst = 220,
},
warthogMkII = { "warthog",
Name = "Warthog MkII",
Desc = "Warthog Small Attack Ship (Upgraded)",
Mass = 5.7,

BrakeConst = 210,
MaxSpeed = 65,
SoundIdleFreq = 15000,
SoundWOTFreq = 28000,
SpinConst = 7200,
ThrustConst = 230,
TurboEnergyUsage = 50,
TurboMaxSpeed = 220,
TurboThrustConst = 240,
},
warthogMkIII = { "warthog",
Name = "Warthog MkIII",
Desc = "Warthog Small Attack Ship (Cargo Transport Variant)",
Mass = 5.5,
HitPoints = 9500,
Cargo = 14,

BrakeConst = 220,
MaxSpeed = 65,
SoundIdleFreq = 15000,
SoundWOTFreq = 28000,
SpinConst = 7200,
ThrustConst = 235,
TurboEnergyUsage = 55,
TurboMaxSpeed = 210,
TurboThrustConst = 240,
},
warthogMkIV = { "warthog",
Name = "Warthog MkIV",
Desc = "Warthog Small Attack Ship (Armored Variant)",
Mass = 5.6,
HitPoints = 10000,
Cargo = 6,

BrakeConst = 250,
MaxSpeed = 65,
SoundIdleFreq = 15000,
SoundWOTFreq = 28000,
SpinConst = 7200,
ThrustConst = 235,
TurboEnergyUsage = 65,
TurboMaxSpeed = 220,
TurboThrustConst = 240,
},
warthogTD = { "warthog",
Name = "Warthog Territorial Defender",
Desc = "Warthog Small Attack Ship (Assault Variant)",
Mass = 5.3,
HitPoints = 10000,
Cargo = 4,

BrakeConst = 250,
MaxSpeed = 65,
SoundIdleFreq = 15000,
SoundWOTFreq = 28000,
SpinConst = 7300,
ThrustConst = 220,
TurboEnergyUsage = 60,
TurboMaxSpeed = 250,
TurboThrustConst = 260,
},
warthogMiner = { "warthog",
Name = "Warthog Mineral Extractor",
Desc = "Warthog Small Attack Ship (Mining Variant)",
Mass = 6,
HitPoints = 9100,
Cargo = 18,

BrakeConst = 240,
MaxSpeed = 65,
SoundIdleFreq = 15000,
SoundWOTFreq = 28000,
SpinConst = 7000,
ThrustConst = 230,
TurboEnergyUsage = 50,
TurboMaxSpeed = 190,
TurboThrustConst = 230,
},

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-- Wraith
wraith = { "_Ship",
Name = "Wraith",
Desc = "Wraith Assault/Transport",
LongDesc = [[The Wraith is multi-role vessel that has proven popular as a light transport, assault platform, even a general-purpose
mining craft. Originally derived from an old Itani design, it has been reworked heavily by the UIT and is now one of the
favored products of the Axia Technology Corporation.]],
Length = 13,
MeshName = "ship_generic_turk",
MeshFile = "gaf/ship_generic_turk.pm",
Icon = "images/icon_ship_wraith.png",
Mass = 10,
HitPoints = 11000,
Cargo = 22,
ControlParams = 4,
ActivePorts = "Large Port=port01,1|Small Port - Left=port02,0|Small Port - Right=port03,0",
DefaultWeaponGroups = "0=Small Port - Left,Small Port - Right|2=Large Port",

BrakeConst = 350,
MaxSpeed = 55,
MaxTurnSpeed = 1.75,
Sound = "ship.engine.heavy",
SoundIdleFreq = 15000,
SoundWOTFreq = 28000,
SpinConst = 8000,
ThrustConst = 350,
TurboEnergyUsage = 50,
TurboMaxSpeed = 180,
TurboThrustConst = 350,
},
wraithMkII = { "wraith",
Name = "Wraith MkII",
Desc = "Wraith Assault/Transport (Cargo Runner Variant)",
HitPoints = 12000,
Cargo = 26,

BrakeConst = 350,
MaxSpeed = 65,
SoundIdleFreq = 15000,
SoundWOTFreq = 28000,
SpinConst = 8000,
ThrustConst = 350,
TurboEnergyUsage = 50,
TurboMaxSpeed = 200,
TurboThrustConst = 350,
},
wraithMkIII = { "wraith",
Name = "Wraith MkIII",
Desc = "Wraith Assault/Transport (Upgraded)",
Mass = 9.8,
HitPoints = 12500,

BrakeConst = 350,
MaxSpeed = 65,
SoundIdleFreq = 15000,
SoundWOTFreq = 28000,
SpinConst = 9000,
ThrustConst = 350,
TurboEnergyUsage = 50,
TurboMaxSpeed = 200,
TurboThrustConst = 350,
},
wraithguardian = { "wraith",
Name = "Axia Guardian Wraith",
Desc = "Wraith Assault/Transport (Fighter Variant)",
Mass = 9,
HitPoints = 13500,
Cargo = 16,

BrakeConst = 350,
MaxSpeed = 65,
SoundIdleFreq = 15000,
SoundWOTFreq = 28000,
SpinConst = 9500,
ThrustConst = 350,
TurboEnergyUsage = 50,
TurboMaxSpeed = 200,
TurboThrustConst = 350,
},

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-- Vulture
vulture = { "_Ship",
Name = "Vulture",
Desc = "Vulture Light Fighter",
LongDesc = [[The Vulture is one of the most popular light fighter-interceptor class ships in use today. Relatively inexpensive and originally
derived from an ancient Serco terrestrial-use design (known as the Nighthawk), it has since been copied and reinterpreted by nearly everyone.
Classical design factors result in a highly maneuverable craft of light weight, with light to moderate weapons capacity and an extremely thin
lateral aspect ratio, presenting a very small target during head-on encounters. These features have made the ship popular as a general purpose
combat fighter with everyone from national militaries to trade escorts, pirates to bounty hunters. The Vulture is not without its weaknesses,
however, also stemming from its aged terrestrial design. The inverse swept wings provide a substantial target to any attacks 'above' or 'below'
the pilot, requiring certain tactical adjustments to be made to use the thinner, lateral aspect to the best advantage. Additionally, the winglet ends
have proven to be weak spots in collisions, making Vulture pilots a little less cavalier about confined spaces. The most famous variants of
this design are most likely the Guardian, made by the Serco military for patrol purposes, the BioCom Vulture XT from UIT space, and the rumored
'Corvus Vulturius' high speed assault interceptor.]],
Length = 12,
MeshName = "ship_generic_vulture",
MeshFile = "gaf/ship_generic_vulture.dfs",
Icon = "images/icon_ship_vulture.png",
Mass = 4.2,
HitPoints = 8300,
Cargo = 2,
ControlParams = 4.25,
ActivePorts = "Small Port - Left=port02,0|Small Port - Right=port03,0",
DefaultWeaponGroups = "0=Small Port - Left,Small Port - Right",
Explosion = "StdExplosion",

BrakeConst = 210,
MaxSpeed = 55,
Sound = "ship.engine.heavy",
SoundIdleFreq = 15000,
SoundWOTFreq = 28000,
SpinConst = 7000,
ThrustConst = 190,
TurboEnergyUsage = 50,
TurboMaxSpeed = 210,
TurboThrustConst = 200,
},
vultureMkII = { "vulture",
Name = "Vulture MkII",
Desc = "Vulture Light Fighter (MkII)",
HitPoints = 8400,

BrakeConst = 220,
MaxSpeed = 65,
SoundIdleFreq = 15000,
SoundWOTFreq = 28000,
SpinConst = 7000,
ThrustConst = 200,
TurboEnergyUsage = 55,
TurboMaxSpeed = 210,
TurboThrustConst = 210,
},
vultureMkIII = { "vulture",
Name = "Vulture MkIII",
Desc = "Vulture Light Fighter (MkIII)",
Mass = 4,
HitPoints = 8600,
Cargo = 2,

BrakeConst = 230,
MaxSpeed = 65,
SoundIdleFreq = 15000,
SoundWOTFreq = 28000,
SpinConst = 7000,
ThrustConst = 220,
TurboEnergyUsage = 55,
TurboMaxSpeed = 230,
TurboThrustConst = 220,
},
vultureMkIV = { "vulture",
Name = "Vulture MkIV",
Desc = "Vulture Light Fighter (MkIV)",
Mass = 3.9,
HitPoints = 8900,

BrakeConst = 240,
MaxSpeed = 65,
SoundIdleFreq = 15000,
SoundWOTFreq = 28000,
SpinConst = 7000,
ThrustConst = 220,
TurboEnergyUsage = 60,
TurboMaxSpeed = 240,
TurboThrustConst = 230,
},
vultureXT = { "vulture",
Name = "BioCom Vulture XT",
Desc = "Vulture Light Fighter (XT Variant)",
Mass = 3.9,
HitPoints = 8900,
Cargo = 2,

BrakeConst = 240,
MaxSpeed = 65,
SoundIdleFreq = 15000,
SoundWOTFreq = 28000,
SpinConst = 7000,
ThrustConst = 220,
TurboEnergyUsage = 65,
TurboMaxSpeed = 240,
TurboThrustConst = 250,
},
vultureguardian = { "vulture",
Name = "Serco Vulture Guardian",
Desc = "Vulture Light Fighter (Guardian Variant)",
Mass = 3.8,
HitPoints = 9000,
Cargo = 2,

BrakeConst = 260,
MaxSpeed = 65,
SoundIdleFreq = 15000,
SoundWOTFreq = 28000,
SpinConst = 7500,
ThrustConst = 235,
TurboEnergyUsage = 60,
TurboMaxSpeed = 240,
TurboThrustConst = 260,
},
vulturius = { "vulture",
Name = "Corvus Vulturius",
Desc = "Vulture Light Fighter (Corvus Vulturius Variant)",
Mass = 3.8,
HitPoints = 8900,
Cargo = 2,

BrakeConst = 280,
MaxSpeed = 75,
SoundIdleFreq = 15000,
SoundWOTFreq = 28000,
SpinConst = 7500,
ThrustConst = 230,
TurboEnergyUsage = 65,
TurboMaxSpeed = 240,
TurboThrustConst = 240,
},

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-- atlas
atlas = { "_Ship",
Name = "Atlas",
Desc = "Atlas Medium Transport",
LongDesc = [[The Atlas is the most widely used transport vessel made today. The backbone of the UIT trading corps and
the most popular seller for predominate manufacturer TPG corp, it is a frequent sight in most corners of the galaxy.]],
Length = 14,
MeshName = "ship_generic_transport",
MeshFile = "gaf/ship_generic_transport.dfs",
Icon = "images/icon_ship_atlas.png",
Mass = 10,
HitPoints = 8000,
Cargo = 32,
ControlParams = 4,
ActivePorts = "Small Port=port01,0|Large Port=port08,1",
DefaultWeaponGroups = "0=Small Port|2=Large Port",
BrakeConst = 380,
MaxSpeed = 55,
MaxTurnSpeed = 1.75,
Sound = "ship.engine.heavy",
SoundIdleFreq = 15000,
SoundWOTFreq = 28000,
SpinConst = 8500,
ThrustConst = 325,
TurboEnergyUsage = 50,
TurboMaxSpeed = 180,
TurboThrustConst = 350,
},
atlasMkII = { "atlas",
Name = "Atlas MkII",
Desc = "Atlas Medium Transport (Upgraded)",
Mass = 9.5,
Cargo = 34,

BrakeConst = 400,
MaxSpeed = 65,
SoundIdleFreq = 15000,
SoundWOTFreq = 28000,
SpinConst = 9500,
ThrustConst = 350,
TurboEnergyUsage = 50,
TurboMaxSpeed = 200,
TurboThrustConst = 400,
},
atlasMkIII = { "atlas",
Name = "Atlas MkIII",
Desc = "Atlas Medium Transport (Light Armored Variant)",
Mass = 9.5,
HitPoints = 8400,
Cargo = 34,

BrakeConst = 400,
MaxSpeed = 65,
SoundIdleFreq = 15000,
SoundWOTFreq = 28000,
SpinConst = 10000,
ThrustConst = 350,
TurboEnergyUsage = 50,
TurboMaxSpeed = 200,
TurboThrustConst = 400,
},
atlasTPGtypeB = { "atlas",
Name = "TPG Atlas Type B",
Desc = "Atlas Medium Transport (Increased Hold)",
Mass = 9.6,
HitPoints = 8200,
Cargo = 36,

BrakeConst = 400,
MaxSpeed = 65,
SoundIdleFreq = 15000,
SoundWOTFreq = 28000,
SpinConst = 10000,
ThrustConst = 340,
TurboEnergyUsage = 50,
TurboMaxSpeed = 200,
TurboThrustConst = 390,
},
atlasTPGtypeX = { "atlas",
Name = "TPG Atlas Type X",
Desc = "Atlas Medium Transport (Elite Variant)",
Mass = 9.2,
HitPoints = 8500,
Cargo = 38,

BrakeConst = 450,
MaxSpeed = 65,
SoundIdleFreq = 15000,
SoundWOTFreq = 28000,
SpinConst = 12000,
ThrustConst = 375,
TurboEnergyUsage = 50,
TurboMaxSpeed = 210,
TurboThrustConst = 475,
},

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-- Hornet
hornet = { "_Ship",
Name = "Hornet",
Desc = "Hornet Heavy Attack Ship",
Length = 17,
MeshName = "ship_generic_hornet",
MeshFile = "gaf/ship_generic_hornet.dfs",
Icon = "images/icon_ship_hornet.png",
Mass = 6,
HitPoints = 11000,
Cargo = 10,
ControlParams = 4,
ActivePorts = "Small Port - Front=port01,0|Small Port - Left=port02,0|Small Port - Right=port03,0|Small Port - Rear=port08,0|",
DefaultWeaponGroups = "0=Small Port - Front,Small Port - Rear|2=Small Port - Left,Small Port - Right",
Explosion = "StdExplosion_Big",

BrakeConst = 210,
MaxSpeed = 65,
SoundIdleFreq = 15000,
SoundWOTFreq = 28000,
SpinConst = 7000,
ThrustConst = 230,
TurboEnergyUsage = 50,
TurboMaxSpeed = 200,
TurboThrustConst = 210,
},
hornetCG = { "hornet",
Name = "Orion Hornet Convoy Guardian",
Desc = "Hornet Heavy Attack Ship (Elite Variant)",
Mass = 5.6,
HitPoints = 13000,

BrakeConst = 240,
MaxSpeed = 65,
SoundIdleFreq = 15000,
SoundWOTFreq = 28000,
SpinConst = 7000,
ThrustConst = 240,
TurboEnergyUsage = 50,
TurboMaxSpeed = 220,
TurboThrustConst = 230,
},
hornetMkII = { "hornet",
Name = "Hornet MkII",
Desc = "Hornet Heavy Attack Ship (Cargo Transport Variant)",
HitPoints = 11500,
Cargo = 18,

BrakeConst = 220,
MaxSpeed = 65,
SoundIdleFreq = 15000,
SoundWOTFreq = 28000,
SpinConst = 7000,
ThrustConst = 230,
TurboEnergyUsage = 50,
TurboMaxSpeed = 220,
TurboThrustConst = 220,
},
hornetMkIII = { "hornet",
Name = "Hornet MkIII",
Desc = "Hornet Heavy Attack Ship (Assault Variant)",
Mass = 5.8,
HitPoints = 12000,
Cargo = 12,

BrakeConst = 240,
MaxSpeed = 65,
SoundIdleFreq = 15000,
SoundWOTFreq = 28000,
SpinConst = 7000,
ThrustConst = 240,
TurboEnergyUsage = 55,
TurboMaxSpeed = 220,
TurboThrustConst = 230,
},

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-- Ragnarok
ragnarok = { "_Ship",
Name = "Ragnarok",
Desc = "Ragnarok Heavy Support Ship",
Length = 19,
MeshName = "ship_generic_ragnarok",
MeshFile = "gaf/ship_generic_ragnarok.pm",
Icon = "images/icon_ship_ragnarok.png",
Mass = 16,
HitPoints = 16000,
Cargo = 18,
ControlParams = 4,
ActivePorts = "Small Port - Front=port01,0|Small Port - Left=port02,0|Small Port - Right=port03,0|Large Port - Front=port08,1|Large Port - Rear=port09,1",
DefaultWeaponGroups = "0=Small Port - Front,Small Port - Left,Small Port - Right|2=Large Port - Front,Large Port - Rear",
Explosion = "StdExplosion_Big",

MaxTurnSpeed = 1.75,
BrakeConst = 400,
MaxSpeed = 65,
SoundIdleFreq = 15000,
SoundWOTFreq = 28000,
SpinConst = 8500,
ThrustConst = 380,
TurboEnergyUsage = 50,
TurboMaxSpeed = 200,
TurboThrustConst = 420,
},
ragnarokMkII = { "ragnarok",
Name = "Ragnarok MkII",
Desc = "Ragnarok Heavy Support Ship (Light Variant)",
Mass = 16,
HitPoints = 14500,

BrakeConst = 450,
MaxSpeed = 65,
SoundIdleFreq = 15000,
SoundWOTFreq = 28000,
SpinConst = 9500,
ThrustConst = 400,
TurboEnergyUsage = 50,
TurboMaxSpeed = 200,
TurboThrustConst = 520,
},
ragnarokMkIII = { "ragnarok",
Name = "Ragnarok MkIII",
Desc = "Ragnarok Heavy Support Ship (Armored Variant)",
Mass = 16,
HitPoints = 19000,
Cargo = 16,

BrakeConst = 500,
MaxSpeed = 65,
SoundIdleFreq = 15000,
SoundWOTFreq = 28000,
SpinConst = 10000,
ThrustConst = 425,
TurboEnergyUsage = 50,
TurboMaxSpeed = 200,
TurboThrustConst = 550,
},

----------------------------------------------------------------------
-- Centaur
centaur = { "_Ship",
Name = "Centaur",
Desc = "Centaur Heavy Transport",
Length = 18,
MeshName = "ship_generic_intron450",
MeshFile = "gaf/ship_generic_intron450.dfs",
Icon = "images/icon_ship_centaur.png",
Mass = 15,
HitPoints = 15000,
Cargo = 48,
ControlParams = 4,
ActivePorts = "Small Port=port01,0|Large Port - Front=port08,1|Large Port - Rear=port09,1",
DefaultWeaponGroups = "0=Small Port|2=Large Port - Front,Large Port - Rear",
Explosion = "StdExplosion_Big",

BrakeConst = 410,
MaxSpeed = 65,
MaxTurnSpeed = 1.75,
SoundIdleFreq = 15000,
SoundWOTFreq = 28000,
SpinConst = 9000,
ThrustConst = 390,
TurboEnergyUsage = 50,
TurboMaxSpeed = 200,
TurboThrustConst = 425,
},
centaurMkII = { "centaur",
Name = "Centaur MkII",
Desc = "Centaur Heavy Transport (Armored Variant)",
Mass = 15,
HitPoints = 18000,

BrakeConst = 450,
MaxSpeed = 65,
SoundIdleFreq = 15000,
SoundWOTFreq = 28000,
MaxTurnSpeed = 1.75,
SpinConst = 11000,
ThrustConst = 400,
TurboEnergyUsage = 50,
TurboMaxSpeed = 200,
TurboThrustConst = 450,
},
centaurMkIII = { "centaur",
Name = "Centaur MkIII",
Desc = "Centaur Heavy Transport (Light Variant)",
Mass = 14,
Cargo = 44,

BrakeConst = 500,
MaxSpeed = 65,
SoundIdleFreq = 15000,
SoundWOTFreq = 28000,
SpinConst = 14000,
ThrustConst = 480,
TurboEnergyUsage = 50,
TurboMaxSpeed = 200,
TurboThrustConst = 500,
},
centauragg = { "centaur",
Name = "Tunguska Centaur Aggresso",
Desc = "Centaur Heavy Transport (Elite Variant)",
Mass = 15,
HitPoints = 17500,
Cargo = 50,

BrakeConst = 600,
MaxSpeed = 65,
SoundIdleFreq = 15000,
SoundWOTFreq = 28000,
SpinConst = 15000,
ThrustConst = 500,
TurboEnergyUsage = 55,
TurboMaxSpeed = 200,
TurboThrustConst = 600,
},

-------------------------------------------------------------------
-- Valkyrie
valkyrie = { "_Ship",
Name = "Itani Valkyrie",
Desc = "Valkyrie Advanced Fighter",
Length = 12,
MeshName = "ship_itani_small_01",
MeshFile = "gaf/ship_itani_small_01.pm",
Icon = "images/icon_ship_valkyrie.png",
Mass = 3,
HitPoints = 9500,
Cargo = 2,
ControlParams = 4.25,
ActivePorts = "Small Port - Front=port01,0|Small Port - Left=port02,0|Small Port - Right=port03,0",
DefaultWeaponGroups = "0=Small Port - Left,Small Port - Right|2=Small Port - Front",

BrakeConst = 230,
MaxSpeed = 65,
SoundIdleFreq = 15000,
SoundWOTFreq = 28000,
SpinConst = 7000,
ThrustConst = 220,
TurboEnergyUsage = 60,
TurboMaxSpeed = 240,
TurboThrustConst = 210,
},
valkyrieIDF = { "valkyrie",
Name = "IDF Valkyrie Vigilant",
Desc = "Valkyrie Advanced Fighter (Assault Variant)",
HitPoints = 11000,
Cargo = 2,

BrakeConst = 230,
MaxSpeed = 65,
SoundIdleFreq = 15000,
SoundWOTFreq = 28000,
SpinConst = 7000,
ThrustConst = 225,
TurboEnergyUsage = 55,
TurboMaxSpeed = 240,
TurboThrustConst = 235,
},
valkyrieRune = { "valkyrie",
Name = "Valkyrie Rune",
Desc = "Valkyrie Advanced Fighter (Increased Hold)",
Cargo = 6,

BrakeConst = 220,
MaxSpeed = 65,
SoundIdleFreq = 15000,
SoundWOTFreq = 28000,
SpinConst = 7000,
ThrustConst = 220,
TurboEnergyUsage = 55,
TurboMaxSpeed = 220,
TurboThrustConst = 210,
},
valkyrievgc = { "valkyrie",
Name = "Valkyrie Vengeance",
Desc = "Valkyrie Advanced Fighter (Armored Variant)",
Mass = 3.1,
HitPoints = 11600,

BrakeConst = 220,
MaxSpeed = 65,
SoundIdleFreq = 15000,
SoundWOTFreq = 28000,
SpinConst = 7000,
ThrustConst = 225,
TurboEnergyUsage = 55,
TurboMaxSpeed = 240,
TurboThrustConst = 230,
},

----------------------------------------------------------------------
-- Prometheus
prometheus = { "_Ship",
Name = "Serco Prometheus",
Desc = "Prometheus Bomber/Transport",
LongDesc = [[The Serco Prometheus forms the backbone of the Serco Dominion Military. Built from the ground up as a heavy assault
ship, the SkyCommand variant features layers of xi-rite armor thicker than any other craft short of the Capital warship class. Serco engineers
were rumored to have started the Prometheus designs by retrofitting a frigate engine into the framework of a relatively tiny
fighter-sized ship frame, then sheathed it in xi-rite alloys. The product is the heaviest hitter of the single-pilot warships,
a vessel small enough to be deployed like a fighter craft, but capable of handling massive loads with minimal battle
performance degredation. Although it will never match the easy maneuverability of its lighter cousin, the Vulture,
it can handle a variety of heavy cargo and heavy weapons while still remaining relatively light on its feet. The class covers
everything from the basic military variant, to the MkIII 'light' variant (at a mere 9500kg), up to the SkyCommand true assault
ship. Rumors persist of low-production variants, heavier still and capable of using Capital heavy weaponry, but are largely
unverifiable.]],
Length = 21,
MeshName = "ship_serco_small_01",
MeshFile = "gaf/ship_serco_small_01.dfs",
Icon = "images/icon_ship_prometheus.png",
Mass = 10,
HitPoints = 18000,
Cargo = 32,
ControlParams = 4,
ActivePorts = "Large Port=port01,1|Small Port - Left=port02,0|Small Port - Right=port03,0",
DefaultWeaponGroups = "0=Small Port - Left,Small Port - Right|2=Large Port",
Explosion = "StdExplosion_Big",
UseLOD = 2,

MaxTurnSpeed = 1.75,
BrakeConst = 550,
MaxSpeed = 65,
SoundIdleFreq = 15000,
SoundWOTFreq = 28000,
SpinConst = 9500,
ThrustConst = 490,
TurboEnergyUsage = 50,
TurboMaxSpeed = 200,
TurboThrustConst = 550,
},
prometheusMkII = { "prometheus",
Name = "Serco Prometheus MkII",
Desc = "Prometheus Bomber/Transport (Increased Hold)",
Cargo = 40,
Mass = 10.2,

MaxTurnSpeed = 1.75,
BrakeConst = 600,
MaxSpeed = 65,
SoundIdleFreq = 15000,
SoundWOTFreq = 28000,
SpinConst = 11000,
ThrustConst = 515,
TurboEnergyUsage = 50,
TurboMaxSpeed = 200,
TurboThrustConst = 550,
},
prometheusMkIII = { "prometheus",
Name = "Serco Prometheus MkIII",
Desc = "Prometheus Bomber/Transport (Light Variant)",
Mass = 9.5,
HitPoints = 16500,
Cargo = 28,

BrakeConst = 600,
MaxSpeed = 65,
SoundIdleFreq = 15000,
SoundWOTFreq = 28000,
SpinConst = 12000,
ThrustConst = 515,
TurboEnergyUsage = 55,
TurboMaxSpeed = 210,
TurboThrustConst = 550,
},
prometheusSC = { "prometheus",
Name = "Serco SkyCommand Prometheus",
Desc = "Prometheus Bomber/Transport (Assault Variant)",
Mass = 10,
HitPoints = 21000,
Cargo = 18,

BrakeConst = 700,
MaxSpeed = 65,
SoundIdleFreq = 15000,
SoundWOTFreq = 28000,
SpinConst = 12000,
ThrustConst = 535,
TurboEnergyUsage = 60,
TurboMaxSpeed = 220,
TurboThrustConst = 560,
},

----------------------------------------------------------------------
-- Marauder
marauder = { "_Ship",
Name = "UIT Marauder",
Desc = "Marauder Advanced Transport",
Length = 12,
MeshName = "ship_neutral_spider_01",
MeshFile = "gaf/ship_neutral_spider_01.dfs",
Icon = "images/icon_ship_marauder.png",
Mass = 4.8,
HitPoints = 10000,
Cargo = 48,
ControlParams = 4,
ActivePorts = "Small Port - Front=port01,0|Small Port - Left=port02,0|Small Port - Right=port03,0",
DefaultWeaponGroups = "0=Small Port - Left,Small Port - Right|2=Small Port - Front",

BrakeConst = 210,
MaxSpeed = 65,
SoundIdleFreq = 15000,
SoundWOTFreq = 28000,
SpinConst = 7000,
ThrustConst = 210,
TurboEnergyUsage = 50,
TurboMaxSpeed = 200,
TurboThrustConst = 210,
},
marauderMerc = { "marauder",
Name = "Corvus Marauder Mercenary",
Desc = "Marauder Advanced Transport (Assault Variant)",
Mass = 4,
Cargo = 28,

BrakeConst = 210,
MaxSpeed = 65,
SoundIdleFreq = 15000,
SoundWOTFreq = 28000,
SpinConst = 7000,
ThrustConst = 210,
TurboEnergyUsage = 60,
TurboMaxSpeed = 220,
TurboThrustConst = 220,
},
marauderMkII = { "marauder",
Name = "Axia Marauder MkII",
Desc = "Marauder Advanced Transport (Armored Variant)",
Mass = 5,
HitPoints = 12500,
Cargo = 44,

BrakeConst = 210,
MaxSpeed = 65,
SoundIdleFreq = 15000,
SoundWOTFreq = 28000,
SpinConst = 7000,
ThrustConst = 210,
TurboEnergyUsage = 50,
TurboMaxSpeed = 200,
TurboThrustConst = 210,
},
marauderRevB = { "marauder",
Name = "Valent Marauder Rev B",
Desc = "Marauder Advanced Transport (Increased Hold)",
Mass = 5.2,
HitPoints = 12500,
Cargo = 56,

BrakeConst = 210,
MaxSpeed = 65,
SoundIdleFreq = 15000,
SoundWOTFreq = 28000,
SpinConst = 7000,
ThrustConst = 210,
TurboEnergyUsage = 50,
TurboMaxSpeed = 200,
TurboThrustConst = 210,
},
marauderTypeB = { "marauder",
Name = "TPG Marauder Type B",
Desc = "Marauder Advanced Transport (Upgraded)",
Mass = 4.5,
HitPoints = 12000,

BrakeConst = 210,
MaxSpeed = 65,
SoundIdleFreq = 15000,
SoundWOTFreq = 28000,
SpinConst = 7000,
ThrustConst = 210,
TurboEnergyUsage = 50,
TurboMaxSpeed = 200,
TurboThrustConst = 210,
},
marauderTypeX = { "marauder",
Name = "TPG Marauder Type X",
Desc = "Marauder Advanced Transport (Light Variant)",
HitPoints = 10500,
Mass = 4,
Cargo = 42,

BrakeConst = 210,
MaxSpeed = 65,
SoundIdleFreq = 15000,
SoundWOTFreq = 28000,
SpinConst = 7000,
ThrustConst = 210,
TurboEnergyUsage = 50,
TurboMaxSpeed = 200,
TurboThrustConst = 210,
},
marauderMiner = { "marauder",
Name = "Tunguska Mineral Marauder",
Desc = "Marauder Advanced Transport (Mining Variant)",
HitPoints = 9500,
Mass = 5.5,
Cargo = 60,
ActivePorts = "Small Port=port01,0|Large Port=port08,1",
DefaultWeaponGroups = "0=Small Port|2=Large Port",

BrakeConst = 210,
MaxSpeed = 65,
SoundIdleFreq = 15000,
SoundWOTFreq = 28000,
SpinConst = 7000,
ThrustConst = 200,
TurboEnergyUsage = 50,
TurboMaxSpeed = 180,
TurboThrustConst = 260,
},

----------------------------------------------------------------------
-- Behemoth
behemoth = { "_Ship",
Name = "Behemoth",
Desc = "Behemoth Heavy Transport",
Length = 34,
MeshName = "ship_generic_behemoth",
MeshFile = "gaf/ship_generic_behemoth.dfs",
Icon = "images/icon_ship_behemoth.png",
Mass = 30,
HitPoints = 45000,
Cargo = 120,
ControlParams = 4,
ActivePorts = "Large Port - Left=port02,1|Large Port - Right=port03,1",
DefaultWeaponGroups = "0=Large Port - Left,Large Port - Right",
Explosion = "StdExplosion_Big",

BrakeConst = 550,
MaxSpeed = 65,
MaxTurnSpeed = .7,
SoundIdleFreq = 15000,
SoundWOTFreq = 28000,
SpinConst = 19000,
ThrustConst = 500,
TurboEnergyUsage = 50,
TurboMaxSpeed = 180,
TurboThrustConst = 1000,
},

Unfortunately, just looking at the Moth's pre-cap stats shows how much valid balancing has occurred since the cap.

We couldn't make use of these numbers directly: we'd have to figure out what the ratios among all the ships used to be, and then calculate how much to nerf ships that weren't affected by the speed cap, to restore the balance that existed before (i.e., at one point in time an IBG:Vult Mk I was a much bigger difference than the same ratio now). That'd be quite the undertaking, and would result in ships unaffected by the speed cap (most of them) getting nerfed in some way. Generally, the argument now is that most of those ships are already so badly outmatched by more popular ships that they need buffing.

It would also assume the prior versions were all the ideal versions for balance purposes...but some ships, like the moth, valk, prom, and some vults, have received extensive tweaks since April 2006 and their current versions are likely better balanced. The old moth versus the old IBG, for example, would be a much less drastic difference than the new moth versus the old IBG. Conversely, the old IDF Valk versus an old SVG would seem like a huge gap in stats, but a new (nerfed) Valk versus a new (buffed) SVG would seem like it was less of a gap. Nerf unaffected ships' current stats based on the old valk, and you're really whacking them versus what the valk has been balanced to be.

At this point, I think "fixing" things via a broad rebalancing of ships unaffected by the speed cap is likely impossible. If there are particular ships that were hit by the speed cap and that never recovered balance-wise -- maybe the Rev C, IBG, CV, and Vult Mk IV come to mind -- it would be better to find some way of buffing them without increasing their speeds over the cap.

The ideal would have been to figure out all the prior ratios before the cap, and nerfing everything unaffected by it to keep those same ratios after the cap...but that ship sailed literally ten years ago.

Yup, I don't disagree. But, I figured if people wanted to base ideas on the original raw data, it would be better to post it and let that discussion take place, and eliminate a lot of vague recollections.

I'm ok with the idea of just moving forward on a grand-rebalancing project, that isn't entirely historical in nature. But this kind of information could still serve as a bit of a seed for that, at least showing what the relative differentials were at a particular point in time.

Yeah, info is good and appreciated...just going to be tricky to figure out how/when to apply tweaks based on it. Guess I'll see what I can come up with from this plus current (hopefully) wiki stats.

I don't think we needed this to come up with a list of tweaks, could have done that without it based on our game knowledge. However now that we have it, we can reduce the stats uniformly with the Max stats being the current limits (like you probably should have back in the day) and scrutinize the results for fairness.

Choco, you spreadsheet wizard, will you do the honours?

If I understand correctly, these are the database values from 2006. Can we get a similar dump of current state so we can build shiny graphs in our spreadsheet? This would help create some graphs that show the differences across a variety of metrics, and everyone can use more graphs!

Actually, this is literally a copy/paste from the Lua file that historically was used to define this data in the client and server.

Sometime after this (~2008) it was moved entirely into a database. Yes, the data could be exported, but it'd be a bit of work to wrangle things into some helpful state. It isn't just in a table, it's in some spickled lua table stored as a text blob.. BS. Grumble grumble bad-use-of-SQL grumble.

So, no. I'm not going to do that right now. You can use Vo-wiki? That's pretty updated, isn't it?

The wiki has a hopefully accurate record of ingame ship values as represented by the game from this time period.

ugh, i started to organise this data into a .csv file so we could do a comparison to modern stats but it's a terrible format and I have more important work to do.

http://hastebin.com/okovobicij.scala

Here's it made into lua objects, each line represents a different ship. Obviously its object oriented programming tables, so the base ship is defined first and then the derivative ships are based off the basic ship with certain values modified.

So ideally we need to get a CSV file going on google spreasheets that shows one stat in each column of the old data vs the new and then we can do the comparions based on that.

VO wiki doesn't have all of the stats since it's based on what is visible to us in-game.

Given that turbo speed was the only thing affected by the cap, data unavailable to us is likely irrelevant anyway.

So ideally we need to get a CSV file going on google spreasheets that shows one stat in each column of the old data vs the new and then we can do the comparions based on that.

With a % changed for comparison purposes would be very nice.

I said it in 2005 and I'll say it again: 5-8% linear reduction of top turbo speed for all ships that were unaffected by the great speed nerf of 2005 (I said 5-8% because of getting round numbers, in case of atlas-x 210 m/s would turn into 200 m/s, in case of SCP 220 m/s would turn into 205 m/s, etc, etc.).

"all ships that were unaffected by the great speed nerf of 2005"

those ships being which?

I said it in 2005 and I'll say it again: 5-8% linear reduction of top turbo speed for all ships that were unaffected by the great speed nerf of 2005 (I said 5-8% because of getting round numbers, in case of atlas-x 210 m/s would turn into 200 m/s, in case of SCP 220 m/s would turn into 205 m/s, etc, etc.).

It's no longer that simple, given the balancing that has occurred since then in certain ships.

@greenwall

Only ships affected by the 2005 top speed nerf were Valkyries, IBG, Rev C, Corvus vulturis and Centurion mk2 (mk2 had 230m/s top speed). In addition to this speed nerf, all centurion interceptor variants received a really big nerf by significantly increasing their hit profile.
Before that only Tunguska Marauder has been nerfed - top speed reduced to 180 and armor cut down.

Over the years other parameters were tweaked on nation specific ships and other interceptors in consecutive balancing nersf/buffs cuz of overall whining, but imbalance of top speed created by the 2005 speed nerf was never addressed.

I really don't see how such a nerf to all non-interceptor ships helps the game, but I guess it does somehow?

It's more complex than just affecting the top speed. The top speed changes the whole acceleration curve of the ship for a given mass. In order to offset the speed changes without affecting maneuverability, we need to increase thrust on these ships.

Reducing the top speed of *all* ships in response to the high speed interceptors will only make the enormous gap between them that already exists that much bigger?

Inc, do you have a copy of this data from before weapons added mass?

You have a point Arf but along with the top speed reduction interceptors also received a thrust reduction too.

Corvus vulturis had a 70 drain and 240 m/s top speed but it had such a good thrust that it could have caught a fleeing Atlas-X in a few sec if it was within 800-1000m of it.

In pre speed nerf 2005 everyone was pretty much satisfied with the overall ships balance.
After nerf.... lot's of whining.