Some concrete suggestions for items to drop into the Pirate Station/Roving Ship-Thing. All of these assume Tri-Nation KOS as a prerequisite for access.

To prevent these toys from making their way too far into common circulation, they should also require KOS status with Serco, Itani, and UIT any time a character with them in inventory goes to equip, select as active ship, or select as active ship a ship with them already equipped.

Enhanced Mega Positron Blaster: Pirate engineers have wrung some additional efficiency from the mega positron blaster and improved its targeting, using stolen research materials. Unfortunately, these highly illegal modifications require beefing up the weapon's conductors and tracking systems, increasing mass. Their enhanced version also requires additional cooling time between shots -- make each one count. These weapons' illegal components are easily detectable - equipping or using this weapon requires KOS standing with all three nations.

Damage 1500
Velocity 210 m/s
Energy 14/blast
Delay .28 seconds
Mass 750 kgs
Targeting Good

Direwolf (Enhanced Greyhound-class interceptor):

Armor: 9250
Cargo: 3cu
Weapons (inline configuration): 1s, 1L (Mk I); 2L (Mk II)
Mass: 5100 kg
Thrust: 250 N/ 500 N turbo
Spin Torque: 6 Nm
Max Speed: 65 m/s
Turbo Speed: 225 m/s
Turbo Energy: 45/s
Integrated 2000m Cargo Scanner

Description: Both Direwolf pirate variants of the Corvus Greyhound utilize prototype technologies stolen from the most closely-guarded military research facilities of all three major nations. While offering significant improvements to these Interceptor class ships, such highly illegal components are easily detectable. Flying this ship KOS standing with all three nations.

Pelican (Enhanced Centaur-class looter):

Armor: 17500
Cargo: 75cu
Weapons: 2L
Mass: 12000 kg
Thrust: 450N
Spin Torque: 14 Nm
Max Speed: 60 m/s
Turbo Speed: 215 m/s
Turbo Energy: 50/s
Integrated 2000m Addon Scanner

Description: Pirates have long struggled to profit off their kills without becoming prey themselves. By sacrificing a weapon port and integrating some highly illegal bits of stolen technology, the Pelican-class Centaur strikes a fine balance between having enough cargo space for all but the largest pieces of booty and handily surviving hostile pursuit. These stolen modifications are easily detectable, and flying this ship requires KOS standing with all three nations.

+1 to this stuff too. I've always wanted a mkII, hive or whatever megapositron and a single large port warthog to equip it to.

-1 to a 2 large port hound. Are you drunk? The UDV is the only interceptor that should have 2 large ports. Giving to another ship makes the UDV less unique and gives less reason to be UIT.

-1 to auto-KOSing for use of these items. That's as ridiculous as giving people admired serco or itani for simply flying a prom or a valk.

Also the specs on the "crapwolf" are way too OP. You basically just increased two thirds of the specs without sacrificing anything. It would be fun to fly, no doubt, but too OP.

Honestly these are kinda tired ideas. Try again.

Except that KOS is a penalty, thus balancing these items/ships and ensuring they don't just become The Next Best Thing Everyone Has, while Admired is a benefit. Who's drunk, again?

Nor have you explained how the Direwolf specs are "too op" for a faction-exclusive, while players who choose Itani have the X1 and Serco have the SCP. I know, I know, the UIT are stuck with a shitty ship...but that's not my problem to solve.

+1

This is better than my suggestion and provides a real incentive with real tradeoff for going tri-kos.

As to Greenwall's concern about having only one 2L interceptor, he is conveniently ignoring the fact that the UDV is the ship you get when you're UIT and friendly with everyone. This is the ship you get when you're friendly with no one.

That is a nice parallel. I also like the name.

+1ish.

However, I'm less concerned with having a better Hound and more concerned with the Hound itself not being so widespread, which this doesn't really address. I'd be happy simply with making the Hound be the exclusive ship rather than adding an upgraded version.

Unfortunately, the Hound has already suffered one nerf because of its generic nature, and if we're making a truly exclusive faction/ship that doesn't just exclude access to every other major nation's ships but requires spending all your time as KOS to the three major nations in a universe full of SF and turrets and angry convoys...it should be worth it from a straight-up piracy perspective.

Those things, though, should be added in such a way that we don't have people going tri-KOS for a week, stocking up on toys, and then using a combo of Corvus standing repair and bulk procs to become beloved trader/nationalist dogs again...who also have tons of pirate toys. Because this is a completely new alignment, there is an opportunity to get exclusivity right from day one that's never existed before - I cannot emphasize enough how important it is that equipping exclusive toys or flying exclusive ships or flying ships with already-equipped toys from the "Pirate Faction" should always require tri-nation KOS...it maintains balance in a way that persists across VO's too-easily-cheated standing system.

It would be good to see the Corvus Hound nerfed a bit more after this gets introduced, seeing as how Inc has long said Corvus != pirates and putting the Hound there has been an unfortunate compromise between needing pirate content because it's a popular choice, and not having a pirate faction. Pulling the old one entirely wouldn't be horrible, but as a LTS toy I supposed we're largely stuck with it. Maybe it could be pulled except as an LTS toy, though.

I thnk incarnate has made it pretty clear there wont be a pirate faction anytime soon, if ever. One would assume this includes Tri-kos as a "faction." But carry on!

The Corvus Greyhound is not even close to the level of Prom, Valk, or even UDV, and neither is this Direwolf silliness. The Greyhound is good at flying in a straight line. Piracy isn't about straight lines. Running away is. The main (mis)use of the Greyhound in game at the moment is to shoot swarms without consequence, and be faster than everyone else when you run away (I'm looking at you, The Guild of Fast Turboers).

Giving it 2 large ports is interesting, but it's not enough. Are there no other ship models? Is it that hard to make a new one? Can't we think of a new setup that fits the profile better? It would take something really original and not just a redo of one of the myriad subpar ships we already have, to make this worth it for anyone who really seriously plays the game.

edit: about ship smuggling - if it's too hard to think of or make something new, why not just have them sell smuggled ships? RP-wise it really shouldn't be that hard for a group of outlaws to steal some ships. Heck, it even presents an actual reason why you would have to be tri-KoS!

Greenwall acknowledges his lack of substance and departs the field, tail firmly between his legs. How refreshing, versus his normal approach.

Now, Kawkfeather...you're clearly not a pirate. Piracy in VO is very much about straight lines: your prey generally runs away in them, and you generally chase them down in them. NOT flying a straight line - say because mines - slows you down, wastes energy in some ships, and is bad for catching prey. This is why the Hound is generally better for pure piracy than the Valk: I can get up to speed faster, and recharge while catching up to my prey, widow maker or MP blasting away all the while. Whether I'm trying to kill and loot, or present a credible threat of death to extort payment, the game is ALL ABOUT who can get from point A to point B fastest, and how much pain they can inflict on the other person along the way without departing from their ideal course/speed.

What piracy is NOT generally about is heads-up combat: almost no traders carrying anything worth pirating actually turn and fight. If VPR shows up in a valk while I'm patrolling a trade route in my Hound, I may fight them for shits & giggles, but I'm at a disadvantage in terms of ship capabilities and it's a distraction from my primary purpose. If they show up while I or a mate is collecting loot, there will probably be a fight...but it'll involve some mix of ganking them with two or more non-combat ships, blasting them with ordinance from a battle-moth, and/or running away with loot while dropping mines.

So it's interesting to hear the Direwolf and Enhanced MP aren't "even close to the level of Prom, Valk, or even UDV," because it shows you have no clue what's relevant to piratical abilities. No, it's not going to be able (pilot skill being even close to even) to fight a Prom, Valk, or UDV in a heads-up fight. And it shouldn't be trying from a piracy-standpoint. I'm oh so sorry you don't like people swarming and running, but that's doable equally well with Hog Mk IIs...petition for the removal of swarms, I guess. Or, you know, learn to fly even a little bit so you can dodge them.

Final point: You've already said you don't want to formally align yourself with a pirate faction - i.e., go Tri-KOS - so what do you care what's suggested? None of these should be implemented without a tri-KOS requirement and you've already said you wouldn't do one.

I will be interested if the toys are good enough, that's my point. If they're not, then why should the devs waste time implementing it?

I'm not saying that we need something with the profile of the X-1 with the armor of an SCP and 225 max turbo with 45 drain. I'm just saying that something that can strafe and isn't made of glass to allow for a bit more versatility would be preferable.

I understand how chasing works, and it's apparent that you don't, at least not against pilots who know what they're doing. Obviously, the Valk is not the greatest chaser, but the greyhound isn't either - it's only the greatest runner. If you don't get what I'm talking about, well, it's not my job to teach you.

I will be interested if the toys are good enough, that's my point. If they're not, then why should the devs waste time implementing it?

If they're not good enough for you, it would be a waste of Dev time? Yeah, that seems like it concludes the matter.

Feel free to name "the greatest chaser" - I'll be happy to run you down in it with a Hound (or Direwolf).

if the hound and valk are not the greatest chasers, what the hell is?

I think a reward for being hated by the largest, most technologically advanced nations should not include uber elite ships. I think innovative addons would be more appropriate, along with special access to the roving station thingy. If ships are going to be a reward, they need to be toned down more than that is in the OP. The buffs these have are not thought out well enough in regards to game balance. It should be noted that we shouldn't expect any modifications to the OP because Lecter thinks he's smarter than everyone else and, despite no agreement from the game creator, that piracy is the most important RP style in the game.

TRI-KOS is a very mild penalty, if even a penalty at all, for players who never go to nation space.

TRI-KOS is a very mild penalty, if even a penalty at all, for players who never go to nation space.

And yet pirates do go into nation space. There's some tasty moths in there.

More importantly, it's a major penalty for those players who would otherwise merrily stockpile or buy these weapons, addons, and ships to use in their own non-pirate gameplay. Hence the tagging anyone using them as temp tri-nation KOS.

If one is going to sever all ties to civilization, an uber elite ship is a perfect tradeoff to such a restrictive gameplay. There is no rule that says the bad guys have to be handicapped so greenwall has a better chance of winning.

The Direwolf would be uber elite only at chasing/hunting cargo; it's less of a glass cannon than the Hound because really, if the only people flying it are pirates who are always tri-KOS when in it, there should be fewer nerfs than the Hound was forced to have as a generally available ship with zero downsides to choosing to fly it.

It occurs to me that we could still see people acquiring pirate toys, flipping back to trader/nationalist alignment, and only using their ill-gotten toys in Grey...where the temp-tri-KOS thing is less of an issue. So, I would change the approach: if you want to use a pirate faction ship you have, or equip any pirate faction weapon or other item, you must actually BE tri-KOS when you go to do so (OP tweaked accordingly). That should be a better way of ensuring we don't have a repeat of the current Hound clusterfuckage/the usual "Serco in stockpiled Valks, Itani in stockpiled Proms" retardedness.

In sum: Greenwall's objections are baseless, which is why he's not supporting his broad generalizations about "need to be toned down" and "game balance". None of these suggested additions are going to be even remotely equivalent in combat to a Valk or a Prom. That they're going to be as good at combat as some other sub-faction ships while also being great at piracy-focused activities is irrelevant - like a SCP or X1, these are end-game items with significant requirements and penalties attached to them, penalties that are in fact much more demanding re: choosing one alignment than any other exclusivity decision in the game. Lighten the fuck up already, carebears.

-1 Dr. Lector, cargo ships don't fly all that fast and go boom very easily against the current hound. This is just an overpowered bad joke. If you are losing cargo ships with the current hound, you just need more practice.

I have no problem with a de-nerfed hound being mutually exclusive to factions, but please come up with an original name that won't potentially infringe on a copyright.

The proposed centaur variant is far too OP. If it wants to have 25 more cargo than the next smallest taur it needs to lose more than just a small port slot. And for its proposed mass it needs to have way less armor. The Aggresso has 18,000 armor and weighs 15,000kg with 50cu of cargo. Your Pelican needs to lose some armor and another weapon or get a whole hell of a lot heavier.

biretak, you're not getting it: the point isn't that the hound isn't "good enough"; the point is that whatever exclusive ship that a pirate faction gets should be BETTER AT PIRACY than stuff that's available to everyone. See, e.g., Serco's proms and Itani's valks.

VR, Direwolf as a word and concept existed LONG before G.R.R.M. was even born. Don't speak about IP issues of which you have no understanding.

As for the Pelican, I'm somewhat ambivalent about the balance tweaks - basically, I think hauler would be appropriate and threw numbers at the wall. Unlike the Interceptor, which I think is rather well balanced, the "Pelican" could have just about anything swapped around I think.

But again, these are alignment-exclusive items; unlike a Tung Taur, which anyone can get by leveling Tung standing without giving up any other gameplay options, getting access to these requires significant commitment to a "I'm the enemy of all major nations" style of play. Thus, there's no reason to evaluate its balance simply by comparing it to a Tung Taur. If it turns out it's too good at combat in its current status and is, say, a great way of taking on SCPs and X1s head-on...yeah, THAT would mean it was OP.

these are end-game items with significant requirements and penalties attached to them

False. Getting tri-KOS is neither a significant requirement or significant penalty. The amount of effort required to build up nation standing and XP levels (and a mission, in the case of the X1) to get access to elite exclusive ships is VERY significant. The amount of effort to get tri-kos pales in comparison. How hard is it to fly into monitored nation space and shoot a ship a couple times? "Significant", please.

I'd offer suggestions to tweak your overpowered ships if I thought they'd actually be considered, which I don't.

Your suggestions would basically reward "bad" behavior in game (shooting nation ships in nationspace) with amazing ships at a very early point in the game. I do not see how this is beneficial to the game.