Forums » Suggestions
Pertinent to recent discussions, I would suggest providing the ability to demand payment from targets in a clickable window (i.e. like kill forgiveness) to those players who have achieved Serco-Itani-UIT KoS.
-Payment demands would take over screen and require a Yes or No answer before players could retain control of their game.
-Payment demands would be limited to once every 10 minutes for each target.
-Payment demands should be limited to 10,000,000 credits
-If target has insufficient funds, "Yes" response should be grayed out and "You have insufficient funds." should be displayed underneath.
-A "No" response by target who has verified insufficient funds would have this communicated back to the demanded (i.e. "TargetName" has declined your demand because of insufficient funds).
-Payment demand ability would be lost once any of the major three nations standings rises above KoS, but re-attainable at any time and without limit.
-Payment demands would take over screen and require a Yes or No answer before players could retain control of their game.
-Payment demands would be limited to once every 10 minutes for each target.
-Payment demands should be limited to 10,000,000 credits
-If target has insufficient funds, "Yes" response should be grayed out and "You have insufficient funds." should be displayed underneath.
-A "No" response by target who has verified insufficient funds would have this communicated back to the demanded (i.e. "TargetName" has declined your demand because of insufficient funds).
-Payment demand ability would be lost once any of the major three nations standings rises above KoS, but re-attainable at any time and without limit.
The idea has something to it but I don't like the "losing of ship control" thing. It could be misused. Imagine you sit in some sector and someone jumps in next to you and pulls out the payment demand to get you from your ship control. While you click no, you lose important time to defend yourself.
I totally agree there should be a payment demand function that is bigger than a one-liner in the chat box. Perhaps make a small window pop up at the right that doesn't make you lose control, but is clickable.
If that was done, home-faction KOS may already be enough.
I totally agree there should be a payment demand function that is bigger than a one-liner in the chat box. Perhaps make a small window pop up at the right that doesn't make you lose control, but is clickable.
If that was done, home-faction KOS may already be enough.
-1 for lost control
-1 for ability to lose credits from a single mouse click
-1 for ability to lose credits from a single mouse click
I believe something like this has been floated before, maybe not as a formal suggestion.
-1 to tri- kos players. I think this really undermines the value of such a payment window.
-1 to the payment window taking over the screen. I think this would be too easy to abuse.
I would suggest rather that this be incorporated as a game wide payment method as a modern version of the /givemoney command. Let players add a message that can be preset like a hail or customized on the spot or adjusted by a plugin.
Rather than having the window take over the screen, have a notification similar to the mission notifications as well as a message in the chat window appear on the screen and an easy shortcut for mobile and pc users to access the window.
In the spirit of negotiation, when the new player has insufficient funds, let them have several options as well as a custom option with which to make a counter offer to the pirate. This should be based on no more than 20% of their total current credit count.
I would cut the time limit between distinct demands that are not part of a negotiation sequence to between 2 and 5 minutes instead of 10 if at all.
This could also be used to exchange credits between players who are trading goods or giving a loan or gift. Instead of initiating a demand, a player could initiate a credit transfer to another player along with a message if they so choose.
Otherwise, this is something I've wanted in the game for a long time.
-1 to tri- kos players. I think this really undermines the value of such a payment window.
-1 to the payment window taking over the screen. I think this would be too easy to abuse.
I would suggest rather that this be incorporated as a game wide payment method as a modern version of the /givemoney command. Let players add a message that can be preset like a hail or customized on the spot or adjusted by a plugin.
Rather than having the window take over the screen, have a notification similar to the mission notifications as well as a message in the chat window appear on the screen and an easy shortcut for mobile and pc users to access the window.
In the spirit of negotiation, when the new player has insufficient funds, let them have several options as well as a custom option with which to make a counter offer to the pirate. This should be based on no more than 20% of their total current credit count.
I would cut the time limit between distinct demands that are not part of a negotiation sequence to between 2 and 5 minutes instead of 10 if at all.
This could also be used to exchange credits between players who are trading goods or giving a loan or gift. Instead of initiating a demand, a player could initiate a credit transfer to another player along with a message if they so choose.
Otherwise, this is something I've wanted in the game for a long time.
-1 I've heard some pilots don't pay. just don't allow ships outside of a station to log off if someone is in the same sector. Empty sectors are easy enough to find.
or, if this ends up implemented, make it a small pop up box way off to the side that does not have focus that allows you to defend yourself like Sieger mentioned. Plus, make it accessible to everyone. Traders need to be paid for their services as well.
or, if this ends up implemented, make it a small pop up box way off to the side that does not have focus that allows you to defend yourself like Sieger mentioned. Plus, make it accessible to everyone. Traders need to be paid for their services as well.
I envisioned the screen takeover being akin to going to the pda.. i.e. it won't kill your turbo or stop your ship from moving.
I do recognize the importance of abating use of this to yank someones ability to control their ship (even for a split second). One idea to counter this would be a timed invulnerability (3 seconds?) while you ponder your response, which cancels the moment you answer. It shouldn't take long to consider your answer, and a good pirate would pre-empt any demand with some other chat communication before hand, to ensure clarity (otherwise they might lose out on payment).
i actually disagree with fluffy and would amend my suggestion for the regen time to be 20 minutes (to keep griefers from sitting in pvp sectors and disrupting fights).
Along those lines, people dueling should be exempt from demands.
I do recognize the importance of abating use of this to yank someones ability to control their ship (even for a split second). One idea to counter this would be a timed invulnerability (3 seconds?) while you ponder your response, which cancels the moment you answer. It shouldn't take long to consider your answer, and a good pirate would pre-empt any demand with some other chat communication before hand, to ensure clarity (otherwise they might lose out on payment).
i actually disagree with fluffy and would amend my suggestion for the regen time to be 20 minutes (to keep griefers from sitting in pvp sectors and disrupting fights).
Along those lines, people dueling should be exempt from demands.
-1. Popups are a horrible idea.
-1
What a flop this suggestion is. Nuff said.
What a flop this suggestion is. Nuff said.
lol a new way to kill pirates, creative. Payment demands spamming!
OP proposed with an option in preferences for auto denying or auto accepting demands, could be acceptable.
OP proposed with an option in preferences for auto denying or auto accepting demands, could be acceptable.
I don't think auto-accepting would be a feature people would use, but auto-denying certainly!
Grenwall, I am constantly amazed by your ingenuity. Why hasn't anyone thought of this before!?
Oh yeah, because:
1) it's WAY harder to implement than the other, much better suggestion of simply displaying a message when people try to log out, but attempts to address the same problem. This point alone has sunk many great ideas from the get go.
2) this isn't even that great of an idea! eventually being able to givemoney through a UI could add a lot to the game, but I imagine that being part of a more general UI update and benefits everyone. This suggestion just seems like a bandaid with a bunch of possible side effects that have been discussed above. For example, why should you have to be Tri-KoS or Home Faction KoS to use something like this? That doesn't make any sense whatsoever - someone doesn't like you so all of a sudden your ship has a new button? Get real. Also, if it takes keyboard and mouse focus away it is completely exploitable in many situations both including and separate from the problem at hand. You're maneuvering to dodge my swarms? Here, have a dialog! Lastly, how are noobs going to feel when a dialog pops up on the screen, they accidentally hit a button, and all their credits are gone? That's not what we're after.
The point is, this solution is way too hard and will take a lot of time and testing to get right. Why not start off with a quick fix and make major changes as part of the scheduled improvement of the game?
Oh yeah, because:
1) it's WAY harder to implement than the other, much better suggestion of simply displaying a message when people try to log out, but attempts to address the same problem. This point alone has sunk many great ideas from the get go.
2) this isn't even that great of an idea! eventually being able to givemoney through a UI could add a lot to the game, but I imagine that being part of a more general UI update and benefits everyone. This suggestion just seems like a bandaid with a bunch of possible side effects that have been discussed above. For example, why should you have to be Tri-KoS or Home Faction KoS to use something like this? That doesn't make any sense whatsoever - someone doesn't like you so all of a sudden your ship has a new button? Get real. Also, if it takes keyboard and mouse focus away it is completely exploitable in many situations both including and separate from the problem at hand. You're maneuvering to dodge my swarms? Here, have a dialog! Lastly, how are noobs going to feel when a dialog pops up on the screen, they accidentally hit a button, and all their credits are gone? That's not what we're after.
The point is, this solution is way too hard and will take a lot of time and testing to get right. Why not start off with a quick fix and make major changes as part of the scheduled improvement of the game?
Sorry Greenwall, but this does add more problems than it addresses.
-1
-1
you want an in game feature to disable UI control of someones game until they answer a question, yea...that won't get abused :P
-1
-1
I don't see how this is harder to impliment than log off notification. This suggestion would utilize an existing feature, only for a different purpose.
I wouldn't be opposed to some sort of popup notification (non-disabling), as long as it still would serve the purpose of reducing the time to guess if someone is paying or not.
I wouldn't be opposed to some sort of popup notification (non-disabling), as long as it still would serve the purpose of reducing the time to guess if someone is paying or not.
Okay kids, there's nothing else to see here. Responses have been overwhelmingly negative. Pack up and move on. The maids will be cleaning up your mess so don't worry about that.
Counter proposal:
Demanding payment would print a notification in the target's chat window rather than a dialog box. Controls and visibility would not be impacted. This should cancel the logout timer if it is already in progress, and two new commands would be enabled for the target: /pay and /decline. Attempting to logout (or getting within 30 seconds of disconnecting) would automatically /decline, notifying the requester that their request for payment was declined. Sending any amount of money to the demander via /givemoney, or either party leaving the sector, docking, or dying would abort the interaction (i.e., if you pay by hand or flee, they won't be notified that you "declined" if you later start to log out). The requester would also be able to /demandAbort or so to abort the payment himself. Either way, both parties would be informed via chat if a payment request is aborted.
This way it cannot be used to disrupt people's gameplay, and it doesn't reveal whether somebody is actually logging out (since apparently that offends some people). But if somebody does try to log out, we still know that they're not intending to pay, so we can know to start shooting at them. And people who are lazy can just never bother to /decline, and things will get cleared out automatically as soon as one of the two parties dies, docks, or leaves. (There could also be a 5-minute timer or so after which the interaction aborts automatically.)
Problem: only one demand can be active at a time with the use of simple /pay commands.
A way to solve this is to allow multiple demands, using /pay "name" and /decline "name" to specify which one to use if there are more than one. Using /pay or /decline without specifying a name when there are multiple demands active could either print a message informing how to specify, or it could open a dialog for the player to choose (this is different from the OP in that the dialog only comes up when the player himself takes an action). Initiating a logout would decline all (there could also be a /declineAll command for convenience).
Also, this version is non-disruptive, it shouldn't be restricted to any particular faction standings since it could be used for perfectly friendly transactions as well. If I ask TRI how much I owe them, right now they have to type the price, then I have to type the price again when I /givemoney, and then they have to check how much I gave them for errors. With this system however, they could just request payment and then I could pay them with a simple /pay, and they will know I gave them the requested amount without having to count the zeroes to make sure I didn't miss one. Makes life easier for everybody.
Demanding payment would print a notification in the target's chat window rather than a dialog box. Controls and visibility would not be impacted. This should cancel the logout timer if it is already in progress, and two new commands would be enabled for the target: /pay and /decline. Attempting to logout (or getting within 30 seconds of disconnecting) would automatically /decline, notifying the requester that their request for payment was declined. Sending any amount of money to the demander via /givemoney, or either party leaving the sector, docking, or dying would abort the interaction (i.e., if you pay by hand or flee, they won't be notified that you "declined" if you later start to log out). The requester would also be able to /demandAbort or so to abort the payment himself. Either way, both parties would be informed via chat if a payment request is aborted.
This way it cannot be used to disrupt people's gameplay, and it doesn't reveal whether somebody is actually logging out (since apparently that offends some people). But if somebody does try to log out, we still know that they're not intending to pay, so we can know to start shooting at them. And people who are lazy can just never bother to /decline, and things will get cleared out automatically as soon as one of the two parties dies, docks, or leaves. (There could also be a 5-minute timer or so after which the interaction aborts automatically.)
Problem: only one demand can be active at a time with the use of simple /pay commands.
A way to solve this is to allow multiple demands, using /pay "name" and /decline "name" to specify which one to use if there are more than one. Using /pay or /decline without specifying a name when there are multiple demands active could either print a message informing how to specify, or it could open a dialog for the player to choose (this is different from the OP in that the dialog only comes up when the player himself takes an action). Initiating a logout would decline all (there could also be a /declineAll command for convenience).
Also, this version is non-disruptive, it shouldn't be restricted to any particular faction standings since it could be used for perfectly friendly transactions as well. If I ask TRI how much I owe them, right now they have to type the price, then I have to type the price again when I /givemoney, and then they have to check how much I gave them for errors. With this system however, they could just request payment and then I could pay them with a simple /pay, and they will know I gave them the requested amount without having to count the zeroes to make sure I didn't miss one. Makes life easier for everybody.
@rin
I think your counter proposal is good. However the idea should be renamed "Request" instead of "Demand".
But consider further:
I tried to build in the incentive of a TRI-KOS achievement reward since it's a common marker of pirate purists. In the same way the faction redux removed people's ability to achieve 13-POS, despite that being a major accomplishment and preferred status of many a trader, rewarding TRI-KOS with an exclusive pirate-centric payment demand ability would further push the pirate RP from something that is a "player-level RP idea" to something that is "dev supported". This would be an important step in supporting the possibility of future pirate-RP centric changes.
I still am not a huge proponent of forcing people to RP according to faction standing, but I know a lot of people are. If we are going to force those who wish to have equal favorable standings amongst as many factions as possible (a valid desire for a trader) to accept compromises in certain situations (serco/itani, axia/valent), then I think it's reasonable to force those who want to be aligned with "grey" or to be a "pirate" to adjust their standings accordingly as well.
As it stands now, many pirates keep their itani or serco standing high enough to purchase the elite ships. From an RP perspective, this doesn't make much sense unless they are nationalist pirates (which they almost never are). Why would Serco and Itani nations sell their elite ships to organizations that kill their own nationals? We should incentivize the behavior by rewarding the appropriate alignment of standings with exclusivity. A payment demand is a good a place to start as any.
I understand the feature would find use for others in game, but frankly /givemoney is sufficient. It's not like we have a major hole in our ability to transfer credits to each other.
I think your counter proposal is good. However the idea should be renamed "Request" instead of "Demand".
But consider further:
I tried to build in the incentive of a TRI-KOS achievement reward since it's a common marker of pirate purists. In the same way the faction redux removed people's ability to achieve 13-POS, despite that being a major accomplishment and preferred status of many a trader, rewarding TRI-KOS with an exclusive pirate-centric payment demand ability would further push the pirate RP from something that is a "player-level RP idea" to something that is "dev supported". This would be an important step in supporting the possibility of future pirate-RP centric changes.
I still am not a huge proponent of forcing people to RP according to faction standing, but I know a lot of people are. If we are going to force those who wish to have equal favorable standings amongst as many factions as possible (a valid desire for a trader) to accept compromises in certain situations (serco/itani, axia/valent), then I think it's reasonable to force those who want to be aligned with "grey" or to be a "pirate" to adjust their standings accordingly as well.
As it stands now, many pirates keep their itani or serco standing high enough to purchase the elite ships. From an RP perspective, this doesn't make much sense unless they are nationalist pirates (which they almost never are). Why would Serco and Itani nations sell their elite ships to organizations that kill their own nationals? We should incentivize the behavior by rewarding the appropriate alignment of standings with exclusivity. A payment demand is a good a place to start as any.
I understand the feature would find use for others in game, but frankly /givemoney is sufficient. It's not like we have a major hole in our ability to transfer credits to each other.
Greenwall, I see that it is futile to attempt any sort of communication with you. None of your ideas are grounded in any sort of fact, you just tout your own biased personal opinion as law and act like other people agree with you. We don't. So please, stop trolling everyone!
Hawkfeather, I've addressed many of your questions, which you would have noticed if you read my posts. Contrary to your frustrated assertions, my ideas are absolutely based in fact and direct, extensive experience with the game. Moreover, why wouldn't I tout my own opinion? That's the entire purpose of this forum, lol. If you don't like hearing other people's opinions that you disagree with, you are in the wrong place darling.
Didn't you read the other thread yet, greenie? Inc has spoken, and you lost.