Forums » Suggestions

F2p ideas - things to buy

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Dec 05, 2015 greenwall link
I'll start:

I'd like to buy temporary boosts (armor, thrust, ammo). They don't have to be huge game-breaking boosts, just small ones with a low price tag. They can have limitations and timeouts to prevent people from boosting 24/7.

And, while personally I don't want to buy this, I think nation changes should be buyable (and, honestly, only available through a purchase).

I realize that there are differences between mobile f2p play and PC play (and that I only play on PC), so this is coming from that perspective. But at least I can start the conversation.
Dec 05, 2015 incarnate link
Thanks. So one of the factors in making purchasable content actually useful for generating revenue, is whether it is consumable. That basically goes to your example of "limitations and timeouts", a consumable advantage might only be helpful as a boost for a short period of time. Limitations on usage of a given consumable, that makes for a real pragmatic advantage, could mitigate the pay-to-win aspect, but there would always be some degree of pay-to-win.. unless it was achieved through a secondary currency or system that allowed a "free" (time-based) method of acquisition to offset the option of direct in-game purchase.

So, given all of that:

- What sort of consumable and non-consumable purchasables would be acceptable?

- What would be acceptable in the veteran sub context, and what should potentially be specific to F2P? (assuming a hybridized approach, a-la D&DU).

For instance, one of the most successful means of monetization in mobile games is use of some sort of "wheel of fortune" (sometimes on the order of like 50% or more of game revenue), where people basically spin the wheel to "win" something, and may use purchased currency to execute the spin, or the resulting items "won" arrive in a configuration that required combination in some other system that has a high probability of monetization.

So, in this context, that could be something like.. a crafting mechanic that allows weapons or items to have some potential to be "buffed" in some way, but also be consumable (cease to be of benefit over time). Placing a regular Neut III into this manufacturing thing might result in some special random Neut III (say, +0 to +X damage?), but after Nx100 shots will it revert back to being a regular Neut III. The process of "enhancing" the N3 might require some kind of rare dropped item (sub), or a purchase of some kind (sub), or for F2P users it might always require additional crystal (f2p), and all types of users might have a limit on how many times per day they could use this machine (more mercenary, revenue-driven games go wildly out of their way to not-limit this).

Anyway, these are all just ballpark concepts to think about.. easily purchased one-off items, or things like nation changes (or, for that matter, "sales" and "content bundles") are simpler to implement in the near term.
Dec 05, 2015 Death Fluffy link
How about some of the things we've been asking for? The 3 lp Rangerok, trident dedicated large port weapons and mining beams?

I'd pay for being able to customize the appearance of my ships.

New weapons and tools that are slightly better or just different than what currently exist in the game, which don't drop or that perhaps can only be equipped once.

If I were still building a trident, I'd pay for bundles of components.

Standing. I'd pay a bribe to improve my standing either temporarily or permanently.

Of course, I'm PC only so I have no idea what lite and f2p would want.
Dec 05, 2015 incarnate link
Ok good input, here are some points that fall out of that:

- If we used a "crafting vs purchase" method as our time-vs-money tradeoff, would people who were grinding up trident components be pissed about others who simply bought everything? Or is that tradeoff reasonable enough to be acceptable? Because, if so, we could use that for a lot of items and components.. either craft them from a lot of elaborate stuff and rare drops, or buy them straight-out (trident components, trident addons / mining beams / weapons, special ship variants.. even stuff like skins).

- Similarly, if you purchased special weapons on your Trident, and some ass-hat killed you in five minutes, how pissed are you going to be? Or, in that case, is it not really that important whether it's money or time (you might honestly be more pissed about the time).

But this goes to all variants and such, our degree of "rarity" in the game, and difficulty to acquire, has always been VERY LOW. I mean, even though Tridents are a bitch to craft, you don't actually lose much when they blow up, because you've crafted the ability to buy them, really, and after that it turns into "insurance". Really, only a few other cases are genuinely consumable crafted items. And yet, for monetization, consumable items are what's desired, as it's the only way to monetize over time.

If we make fully one-off and consumable items that can be purchased-vs-crafted, there may be a bit more rage when one inevitably loses something in two seconds of lag, or whatever else.
Dec 05, 2015 Death Fluffy link
Personally, as someone who did 95% of the hauling to build their dent, I wouldn't mind. This is why I wouldn't mind. #1 I would probably use it myself for building tridents for some of my alts, but more importantly....

#2 It's putting money in GS's pockets. Please bear in mind that I haven't been terribly active in recent months, and for the last year or so I've become more of a recluse and don't engage with the player base beyond my guild for politeness and discussion on these forums. When I was last active, I became extremely frustrated by how my guild mates and I would support these new players and help them building their trident, both in hauling and helping them farm components only to see them disappear along the way or quit shortly after completing their build. I'd rather play the game and do stuff that I want to do and let these new players either do the work like I did, or anti up and pay a decent price in exchange for the time they would otherwise have to put in doing nothing but hauling. My only complaint there is that it reduces the only real trade component in the game besides building faction standing. Things may be different these days, though I rather doubt it.

If I die in 5 minutes of buying a special weapon for my trident, I was either looking for a fight or particularly stupid that day. Most likely particularly stupid. ;)

Other than that, I would be more upset about losing something I worked for than something I 'cheated' for.
Dec 05, 2015 Savet link
I like the idea of temporary buffs. If you put a cooldown between their uses or a total # of uses per time period, it would equalize their use between subscribers and f2p. You could grant this maximum # with each subscription to keep things even.
Dec 06, 2015 yodaofborg link
I like the buff idea, I also think the idea of buying components for manufacturable things is also a decent idea. These would both work on the PC platform at least. Here's an idea I've had over time though, and its probably more aimed towards the current mobile/lite players.

The ability to buy pre-made ships for (x) amount of time. So for example:

$1.99c lets you buy (one at a time, no stockpiling) for 24 hours, and depend on Faction (if required)

IDF Valkyrie with a fast charge power cell, 2 x Neutron blasters and a Sunflare rocket.
SC Prometheus with a fast charge power cell, 1 x AGT, 2 x Neutron blasters.
UDV Raptor with a fast charge power cell, 1 x AGT, 1 x Jackhammer rocket.
Behemoth with a fast charge power cell, 2 x proximity mines.
Behemoth XC with a fast charge power cell.
etc etc etc

You can only buy another one once the previous one has died, and only for as long as you pay for. Once purchase time has expired, you can continue to fly the ship you still have until it dies. Sure, this may increase people whining saying "That was my last blah, and I cannot get another one till pocket money day! You suck and your mom!" but this already happens. Weapons/loadouts cannot be changed. These are pre-made ships.

You could also add some level limits before these purchases become available, as to not skip at least a bit of grinding. For the combat style ships, require combat 4 (or whatever the max f2p combat level becomes), trade 4 for trade. These ships are then consumable, and premium subscribers still have an advantage. They can stockpile these ships, choose their own weapon layouts and of course have no such thing as a "last one".

I know when I was on F2P/Lite for a while I would have shelled out a few quid to grab a moth to get them faction levels up, or grab a valk/prom for nation wars. (Yes, I know I am not 'everyone')
Dec 06, 2015 Sieger link
I'll be constructive then so incarnate doesn't accuse me of commenting on stuff with no data to backup my opinion!

What I would buy:

- Abilities which have zero impact on gameplay (e.g. the ability to re-paint your ship. This would come in handy for Tridents etc.)
- Special ship variants/skins if they look fancy
- I'd also buy the boosts, given that they are really as reasonable as suggested by the OP
- Name changes

And just consider the "pay-to-bypass-grinding" way. You would have many options that are reasonable and would not push the game into a pay to win niche. You could sell:

- License point packs: Buying this would fill the license of your choice by 25% of the points required to the next level
- Warps!: You could sell 10, 20 and 50 warp packs which let you insta-warp to a location. This would reduce travelling time. Of course you'd still be required to go the 3000m out.
- Cash: You could sell credit-packs (especially newbies would profit from those)
- Trident parts: As suggested above, do it. The player can select a part he wants and once he paid up, it will be put into his Latos M7 inventory
- Game-ready characters: I like Fluffy's idea of selling fully built characters. You get your alt boosted to license 8-10s everywhere for 50 bucks or something

And there are many more options.

All of these options I personally do not find game breaking. The player only saves a lot of time and in return, Guild Software gets money for that. I have personally built a Trident and hell, if I knew somebody spent 500 bucks instead of grinding as I did, I'd be okay with it. Same goes to licenses: if somebody buys himself a higher combat license than I have. I could live with it!

Also note that theese ideas do not take away from the skill system of VO: It will still take skill to stand your ground in PvP. It will still take skill to be an efficient botter or trader or whatever. And you can achieve EVERYTHING what is sold by grinding instead of paying. Easy as that!
Dec 06, 2015 DeathSpores link
- Warps!: You could sell 10, 20 and 50 warp packs which let you insta-warp to a location. This would reduce travelling time. Of course you'd still be required to go the 3000m out.

-Warp tracker let you jump to your target destination using the Warps boost, if you're inside the 1000m range of your target and within 3000m from any roid station wormlhole. Warp Trackers are packed in same amount as the warps package.
Dec 06, 2015 yodaofborg link
Warp packs - nope. Talk about game breaking...
Dec 06, 2015 Sieger link
Yep. Warp Trackers would be a good counter measure.

Warp packs - nope. Talk about game breaking...

Oh please... Imagine some f2p kid wants to get spices from red space and is too lazy to fly there. He'd already spend 2 warps to get them to where he wants. Seems really reasonable.

Sure they can be used to escape from your enemy. But really, if I know GS made 10 bucks just so the scrub that I chased could warp away from me I am perfectly content with that.
And I could always just buy a Warp Tracker pack to chase him ;)

EDIT: And imagine the amount of cash vets will spend just so they can get their favorite PvP ships to the hood where PvP happens. The tradeoff seems verey small compared to the cash GS could make.
Dec 06, 2015 yodaofborg link
I suppose. It does also make dent owners even more immune to being hunted down though. A few rats get together to pwn some trident, trident hops to empty - logs, buys a warp pack - the pirates camp the wormholes for em, then the trident logs back in and warps to deneb.

Not that I would really care! Although it would be a shame to let someone get away from a decent chase if they had warp packs and you do not. That brings in the whole pay 2 win argument again.
Dec 06, 2015 Death Fluffy link
I'm neither for nor against the warp idea, but I would suggest conflict avoidance could be mitigated with a timer similar to the log out function.
Dec 06, 2015 Lord~spidey link
Damn there's some crappy ideas in this thread.
Dec 06, 2015 Sieger link
yodaofborg - Yeah you got a point with the Trident problem. That would make the hunting of Tridents even more complex.
I like Fluffy's solution for this: Add a timer of 30 seconds or something until you can warp. If you take damage within that time span, the warp is aborted.
Generally, I don't demand that warps be added. It was just part of my brainstorming of stuff that would certainly sell cause it's useful enough and saves time.

Lord~spidey:

Damn there's some crappy ideas in this thread.

Then instead of posting useless-crap comments into the only constructive thread of VO that has not been ruined yet, MAYBE come up with some ideas of your own that you find more appropriate?
Dec 06, 2015 biretak link
the use of a warp shortcut should require getting to the wormhole and the wormhole sector being empty when you magic warp to your destination. If the wormhole sector isn't empty, you just go to the other side and the chase continues.
Dec 06, 2015 SkinWalker link
Some of these are interesting ideas but some I think are a little too far. The warp idea is of the latter category.
There are things that make this game social and require that people interact, either to negotiate with pirates or to work cooperatively with others to get intel on if a sector is safe to move a moth. That sort of thing.

Warp passes on that sort of scale reduce social interaction and will ultimately make the game more individualistic than cooperative or social. A pilot could simply warp to Bethashee or Divinia for spices rather than offer to buy some from others, which happened in-game just yesterday. VeXeD was introduced as a new friend to a newb through that simple act.

I do, however, think credit packs could be useful. And maybe the sale of minor (or perhaps even midrange) dent parts, though I'm less sure about the major parts that need to be moved to M7.

But back on the topic of purchased Warps, I might not be opposed to one that could be called an "emergency warp package" that could send you to any sector in the galaxy at random, including one that is dangerous to the user (itani sent to serco space, sent to the middle of an Arklan sector with your XC etc.). Would be an interesting feature for dent pilots trying to escape, but I think anyone within 1000 m should still see the coordinates they went to. You know, so we can laugh a little if they end up in a training sector.
Dec 06, 2015 greenwall link
Yes, obviously skins should be purchasable. I don't give three craps about skins, but I'm aware that huge profits can be made from the sale of skins in other games, so why the hell not?

To incarnate's question(s):

As soon as you start offering purchasable items and abilities, it's a given you then have to start supporting problems associated with them. Various errors and unfair situations will probably have to result in more customer service interaction. The degree to which someone is pissed about the sudden loss of something they spent money on is hard to calculate, but I'd like to think with the right amount of disclosure/explanation of the nature of what they are buying you could tamper down the amount of unhappy campers to a managable amount.

It might be worth thinking about implimenting some kind of remdiation tool (along side the introduction of whatever array of purchasable items you decide on) to assist in more quickly responding to people's problems (i.e. making it easier to replace items or alter account stats).
Dec 06, 2015 Ore link
I also don't care about skins and after hearing a few noobs cry it out, I'd likely point out their vanity and suggest they don't buy them either as I don't want 100 filled with even more bedwetters than it already has. You know this will happen and I won't be the only one.

Skinwalker brings up a good point around social interaction.

I've said this before but I think it bares repeating. F2P noobs should be given the opportunity to craft trident building blocks (FCP, FFSA) in their own nation space. This gets them invested in their own builds with little friction, keeps the social interaction up or they can sell the parts. It could eventually lead to a full sub in order to complete the build and fly the trident.

I like the idea of selling credit packs provided they can buy something useful.
Selling moths would help the grinding process early in the game and support the above suggestion.
Dec 06, 2015 Hawkfeather link
-1 to stat boosts. What makes this game fun is that the max cap for equipment power level is attainable with minimal grinding, and anything that increases that cap, even slightly, that can't be "turned on" 24/7 breaks the game in a way that makes it completely unfun, whether it is purchasable with credits or with cash.

-1 to instant warps. This is a completely stupid idea, and I won't dignify it by explaining why.
[EDIT: reading a bit more I would be fine with warps (albeit still not thrilled) if they take time to activate, notify nearby players that a warp is about to occur, and are cancelled by moving or being hit (this would "refund" the warp consumable)]

I would be frustrated beyond words if either of those things become part of the game. Please don't add these things.

+1 to skins. People like shiny things! This idea has been massively successful in other games and provides a way for players to customize more while keeping competitive standards intact. I would be happy to pay for skins that I think look good.

+1 to license upgrades or levelled characters. Grinding an alt after playing with superior equipment is literally the worst thing in the world. I would gladly pay to skip that for an alt. New players will also gladly pay to skip tedious hours of shooting bots, trading, or mining. Also, not everyone likes every part of the game - I got to license 4 in mining solely for the XC and it is my intention to never touch a mining beam again, except for maybe on an alt to have access to the XC there. I would gladly pay to avoid that torture. This is the suggestion that will likely bring in the most revenue imo.

+1 to faction changes. Make them expensive, and limit the number of times it can be done. These shoudl definitely be part of the game and not a special case that requires a manual dev change.

+1 to dent parts and items normally only acquirable through manufacturing. This does do some annoying things to the player economy, but as long as the items are a bit overpriced I think having multiple methods to acquire these objects is a very good model.

+1 to credit packs. Credits are easy enough to get in game, so I don't know how much this would actually be purchased, but if it's easy to add I don't see anything wrong with it.