Forums » Suggestions
Currently for logging out a 10second countdown happens then you and your ship vanish, ok whatever, that's ok for a fighter I suppose
Currently when you disconnect either not on purpose or on purpose your ship drifts for about a minute.
For a fighter you'll probably die if in combat, for a capship, whoopdeedo, you'll be fine
Now here's the idea to kill using logouts as an escape
-For logout make a fighter sized ship drift for a minute, just like a disconnect
-Capital class vessels drift for 5-10min after the captain has logged out
This fixes a long standing exploit in the game.
Hell, if no one minds you can even make the fighters drift the same length, I don't actually mind this I was just being nice to the softer side of vo with that one.
Currently when you disconnect either not on purpose or on purpose your ship drifts for about a minute.
For a fighter you'll probably die if in combat, for a capship, whoopdeedo, you'll be fine
Now here's the idea to kill using logouts as an escape
-For logout make a fighter sized ship drift for a minute, just like a disconnect
-Capital class vessels drift for 5-10min after the captain has logged out
This fixes a long standing exploit in the game.
Hell, if no one minds you can even make the fighters drift the same length, I don't actually mind this I was just being nice to the softer side of vo with that one.
+1, as always when this idea comes up.
previous rendition, where we decided that my suggestion of 15 minutes was excessive, but 5 might be about right.
previous rendition, where we decided that my suggestion of 15 minutes was excessive, but 5 might be about right.
This isn't so much a suggestion as it is a needs to happen.
+1
+1
+1
+1
They'll also need to address the instant-disappearing trick of logging in the same account on another client.
They'll also need to address the instant-disappearing trick of logging in the same account on another client.
+1
I know this can be a tricky thing to fix and balance with disconnects. But specially with caps, it REALLY needs to be addressed.
psudo code idea:
if player.health > 99 then
# ship poofs after 10 seconds -- helps if your moving stuff and have a legit problem.
else
if ship.damge_taken_in_last_600_seconds then
# ship can't dissapper from space
else
#ship goes poof
end
as for the log in on another pilot on the account. That one is much harder, but also needs to be addressed. A cheap fix is don't let players switch pilots for 10 mins or something, but that will just make legit pilot swappers upset. That one I ca't begin to answer.
I know this can be a tricky thing to fix and balance with disconnects. But specially with caps, it REALLY needs to be addressed.
psudo code idea:
if player.health > 99 then
# ship poofs after 10 seconds -- helps if your moving stuff and have a legit problem.
else
if ship.damge_taken_in_last_600_seconds then
# ship can't dissapper from space
else
#ship goes poof
end
as for the log in on another pilot on the account. That one is much harder, but also needs to be addressed. A cheap fix is don't let players switch pilots for 10 mins or something, but that will just make legit pilot swappers upset. That one I ca't begin to answer.
+1 to ~5min or so logout drift for capships as long as your gunners can still fire weapons until the moment you disappear.
+1 OP.
I say no. If you manage to logout legitimately you should be out. If you try logon while your account has an active character then you should be made to wait a period of time (30 seconds) while your character is removed from the universe. If you kill your client, because it froze or some other reason, your character should persist for a period of time as if your connection had lagged out. If you then try to log back in, then the aforementioned wait period for an active character should come into play.
It should not be tied to ship health being less than 100%.
Scenario:
Player A jumps into sector, sees Player B is out of range. Player A logs off or kills client while player B approaches. Player A disappears right as blaster bolts are about to land.
Scenario:
Player A jumps into sector, sees Player B is out of range. Player A logs off or kills client while player B approaches. Player A disappears right as blaster bolts are about to land.
Logging back into the same character should not be delayed - only Character switches
+1 op
You should not be able to log out (or have your ship disappear) for any reason once "in combat" but there's not "in combat" flag in VO that I can find (maybe there is but hidden). The only think I can see is take damage events, so no ship disappearing if you have taken damage in the last 600 seconds or something seems about right (though that time out may need to be adjusted).
from a pure hard line stance, your ship should not be able to disappear for any reason unless your in station. But real dissconnects do happen, as does lag, and other issues. So something in between is needed. As good as I can figure no damage in the last x seconds is likely the 2nd easiest to implement. And should fix this issue, which still allowing for dropped connections.
Pilot swapping or logging in on another device, is a bit trickier to stop. There are plenty of legit reasons to swap devices or pilots and to make those legit players wait could suck.
Maybe (though it would be very hard to do), if a pilot logs out (or drops) in that seconds from last damage timeout their account can be locked for 10 mins or something. It would suck for real disconnects during fights, but wouldn't effect legit pilot swaps and would prevent log off during combat.
from a pure hard line stance, your ship should not be able to disappear for any reason unless your in station. But real dissconnects do happen, as does lag, and other issues. So something in between is needed. As good as I can figure no damage in the last x seconds is likely the 2nd easiest to implement. And should fix this issue, which still allowing for dropped connections.
Pilot swapping or logging in on another device, is a bit trickier to stop. There are plenty of legit reasons to swap devices or pilots and to make those legit players wait could suck.
Maybe (though it would be very hard to do), if a pilot logs out (or drops) in that seconds from last damage timeout their account can be locked for 10 mins or something. It would suck for real disconnects during fights, but wouldn't effect legit pilot swaps and would prevent log off during combat.
I think that no matter what ship you're in, you should not be able to log out instantly (being within a minute) in any sector where there are:
-- Players
-- Wormholes
-- Stations (exception when docked)
-- Border War Sectors (Sectors currently in Border Skirmish)
If someone attempts to log off, the logout timer is 15 minutes drifting (log out may look instant but your ship persists)
And last words: Dying is not a big deal !!!
-- Players
-- Wormholes
-- Stations (exception when docked)
-- Border War Sectors (Sectors currently in Border Skirmish)
If someone attempts to log off, the logout timer is 15 minutes drifting (log out may look instant but your ship persists)
And last words: Dying is not a big deal !!!
-1 to coteyr, for making something that is dead simple too complex.
"-1 to coteyr, for making something that is dead simple too complex."
Well my favorite answer is ships never despawn and just float forever, but I can understand how legit disconnects could cause issues with that theory. (and the fact that we don't really pilot ships it's more we "are" the ships).
Kierky's suggestion works quite well if it's longer then a minuet. Sector checks should be quite cheap, player checks not so much, but they are already being done so it could be cheap to hook into.
There is also the problem of logging in on another device or logging in to a different pilot. Those are much harder to intercept. I don't know the details of course, but what I can see from the API and the events (and what happens when you do it). The actual act of "logging in" is handled quite apart from "where is my ship or my stuff".
It's also the reason why we can't have "go back to pilot selection screen", instead of logout.
Well my favorite answer is ships never despawn and just float forever, but I can understand how legit disconnects could cause issues with that theory. (and the fact that we don't really pilot ships it's more we "are" the ships).
Kierky's suggestion works quite well if it's longer then a minuet. Sector checks should be quite cheap, player checks not so much, but they are already being done so it could be cheap to hook into.
There is also the problem of logging in on another device or logging in to a different pilot. Those are much harder to intercept. I don't know the details of course, but what I can see from the API and the events (and what happens when you do it). The actual act of "logging in" is handled quite apart from "where is my ship or my stuff".
It's also the reason why we can't have "go back to pilot selection screen", instead of logout.
f you try logon while your account has an active character then you should be made to wait a period of time (30 seconds) while your character is removed from the universe.
Only if you're switching characters. If you just disconnected b/c of a network problem (or switched to the tablet so you can go to the bathroom, lol) why should you have to wait to get back in the game on the same character you just disconnected with?
The amount of knee-jerk reactions in this thread is lols.
Only if you're switching characters. If you just disconnected b/c of a network problem (or switched to the tablet so you can go to the bathroom, lol) why should you have to wait to get back in the game on the same character you just disconnected with?
The amount of knee-jerk reactions in this thread is lols.
Why should you have to wait even for other characters? What is wrong with being in space while your alt is floating unprotected? Okay, so you could get a free PK, big whoop. I have over six thousand PKs. Does anybody actually care about that? I doubt it.
"Only if you're switching characters. If you just disconnected b/c of a network problem (or switched to the tablet so you can go to the bathroom, lol) why should you have to wait to get back in the game on the same character you just disconnected with?"
This is part of the balancing act. Honestly I totally admit the change device problem, or the real disconnect problem is a hard one to solve.
The swap device is simple. Don't allow device swapping. Force a person to actually logout on device one before they can login on device 2. So if you just have to fly your moth while taking a dump you can, but you need to log out, grab your tab, and log in. That would seem to fix that problem (though again it hinders legit players).
The disconnect problem there isn't really a fix for. Anything you "soften" to allow a disconnect allows for some one to just pull their router. I have no answer for that.
I think were only talking about logging out in combat. No one cares if you log out in a station or in some system way away from everyone. The real problem is bailing mid fight. Normal ships isn't much of a problem, 10 seconds is long enough to kill any normal ship that isn't moving/dodging/what have you. Cap ships present a "new" problem.
This is part of the balancing act. Honestly I totally admit the change device problem, or the real disconnect problem is a hard one to solve.
The swap device is simple. Don't allow device swapping. Force a person to actually logout on device one before they can login on device 2. So if you just have to fly your moth while taking a dump you can, but you need to log out, grab your tab, and log in. That would seem to fix that problem (though again it hinders legit players).
The disconnect problem there isn't really a fix for. Anything you "soften" to allow a disconnect allows for some one to just pull their router. I have no answer for that.
I think were only talking about logging out in combat. No one cares if you log out in a station or in some system way away from everyone. The real problem is bailing mid fight. Normal ships isn't much of a problem, 10 seconds is long enough to kill any normal ship that isn't moving/dodging/what have you. Cap ships present a "new" problem.
"I think were only talking about logging out in combat."
Um, no, that is not the only thing we're talking about. There is also logging out during a chase where no damage had been exchanged. Or logging out while a pirate is waiting for you to enter the /givemoney command (which can sometimes take newbs (especially mobile users) a bit of time). Or logging in and out frequently while camping a wormhole or enemy station outside of targeting range.
Sure, you could try to set up special conditions to cover each case, and any others that people think up. But why bother? Why chase a million stupid little details, when you could simply apply it globally and not have issues in the first place? If it would cause some major burden to people, I'd understand, but it doesn't. Log out in a station, and it's instant and safe. Log out in space, and it is quick, but the ship stays behind, unsafe. Big fucking deal. Stations are everywhere and you can get to them quickly. Empty sectors that nobody ever visits are everywhere, and you can get to them even more quickly. There is no negative impact!
As for device swapping, there is no issue when a simple global persistence is used. Just treat it like it does now - instantly log out the other client. The only difference is, if the other client was on a different character from the new one, leave that character's ship floating around for five minutes -- the same as if they had logged out properly using this system.
Um, no, that is not the only thing we're talking about. There is also logging out during a chase where no damage had been exchanged. Or logging out while a pirate is waiting for you to enter the /givemoney command (which can sometimes take newbs (especially mobile users) a bit of time). Or logging in and out frequently while camping a wormhole or enemy station outside of targeting range.
Sure, you could try to set up special conditions to cover each case, and any others that people think up. But why bother? Why chase a million stupid little details, when you could simply apply it globally and not have issues in the first place? If it would cause some major burden to people, I'd understand, but it doesn't. Log out in a station, and it's instant and safe. Log out in space, and it is quick, but the ship stays behind, unsafe. Big fucking deal. Stations are everywhere and you can get to them quickly. Empty sectors that nobody ever visits are everywhere, and you can get to them even more quickly. There is no negative impact!
As for device swapping, there is no issue when a simple global persistence is used. Just treat it like it does now - instantly log out the other client. The only difference is, if the other client was on a different character from the new one, leave that character's ship floating around for five minutes -- the same as if they had logged out properly using this system.