Forums » Suggestions
Deneb is the main battle in VO, the Serco and Itani war, but is seen in the game as insignificant. There are simply no good rewards for participating, and even winning.
1:
--- Capships should drop small amounts of capship parts if damaged/killed by players (FFSA, FCP, rarely a RBH) ---
Trident Light Frigate
FCP - 20%
FFSA - 40%
RBH - 1%
Nothing - 39%
TPG Teradon Frigate
FCP - 40%
FFSA - 55%
RBH - 5%
TPG Constellation Heavy Transport 2 drops
FCP - 50% per drop
FFSA - 43% per drop
RBH - 7% per drop
Heavy Assault Cruiser 3 drops
FCP - 45%
FFSA - 45%
RBH - 10%
2:
--- Monetary rewards + 300% unless the new economy can reduce easy ways of making money, as then it will be balanced ---
3:
--- Implement the Deneb Badges as listed in the badges thread ---
4:
--- Link the Nation Specific High-End Ship Availability to the outcome of the Deneb War ---
More specifically, whoever loses gets very limited stock (tied in with supply side economy).
1:
--- Capships should drop small amounts of capship parts if damaged/killed by players (FFSA, FCP, rarely a RBH) ---
Trident Light Frigate
FCP - 20%
FFSA - 40%
RBH - 1%
Nothing - 39%
TPG Teradon Frigate
FCP - 40%
FFSA - 55%
RBH - 5%
TPG Constellation Heavy Transport 2 drops
FCP - 50% per drop
FFSA - 43% per drop
RBH - 7% per drop
Heavy Assault Cruiser 3 drops
FCP - 45%
FFSA - 45%
RBH - 10%
2:
--- Monetary rewards + 300% unless the new economy can reduce easy ways of making money, as then it will be balanced ---
3:
--- Implement the Deneb Badges as listed in the badges thread ---
4:
--- Link the Nation Specific High-End Ship Availability to the outcome of the Deneb War ---
More specifically, whoever loses gets very limited stock (tied in with supply side economy).
Won't. Do. Anything.
Value fixes for rewards will not fix the underlying problem. Deneb is a beta for this dynamic warfare system thingy that we're supposedly getting in 1.9 -> 2.0 but it gives a terrible impression of what VO combat is like and wheres why:
1) lag
2) imbalances between Itani vs Serco side (lack of in system station, ship role imbalances)
3) terrible terrible AI
4) greater rewards if you lose rather than if you win
4) horrible scalability from low to high playerbase
No scalability of missions is a key issue with Deneb. You are forced to participate in a Large skirm even if theres only a 1v1 going on between itani/serco participants. It's a horrible experience where you spend more time dealing with NPC than actual enemy pilots.
In the meta-game of VO, it's all about furballs in greyspace. If you lose deneb the enemy has to come to just outside your nation space in order to participate in these furballs which means you've got them right where you want them. The NPC capships slug them for repair costs and it takes rudimentary co-ordination to dispense with the dumb capship AI. Why would you play deneb when it means you get furballs right outside your home space if the enemy is dumb enough to come and fight you there?
Also the type of combat you do in deneb is hugely favourable to Itani who get the only interceptor ship that is any good at taking down a ragnarok mk III for like 10 systems. The SVG is terrible at this task and cannot possibly hope to dish out enough damage with its two ports and higher drain. The prometheus is much better at holding or defending objectives such as the conquerable stations in greyspace or CtC, thus all Serco nationalists are more interested in this content.
The Serco Dominion is done with Deneb. We're sick of it. So many of the old Serco nationalists have quit because they're sick of it too and rightly so. In RED we have raised a new generation of Serco Nationalists that love greyspace content - thank god for that, because if we taught them that Deneb was the pinnacle of Serco Nationalism they would have all become pirates by now and Nationalism would be relatively dead again like it was when I first started playing two years ago.
Incarnate has indicated he has no plans to reform Deneb in the near future, so as far as I'm concerned Deneb is just another place to train your licenses or practice stacking swarms. If the devs were to make the National ships tied to the outcome of Deneb, I would hang up my Serco nationalist shoes and create another greyspace guild and fly valkryies again.
Deneb needs a complete overhaul, there are no two ways about it.
Value fixes for rewards will not fix the underlying problem. Deneb is a beta for this dynamic warfare system thingy that we're supposedly getting in 1.9 -> 2.0 but it gives a terrible impression of what VO combat is like and wheres why:
1) lag
2) imbalances between Itani vs Serco side (lack of in system station, ship role imbalances)
3) terrible terrible AI
4) greater rewards if you lose rather than if you win
4) horrible scalability from low to high playerbase
No scalability of missions is a key issue with Deneb. You are forced to participate in a Large skirm even if theres only a 1v1 going on between itani/serco participants. It's a horrible experience where you spend more time dealing with NPC than actual enemy pilots.
In the meta-game of VO, it's all about furballs in greyspace. If you lose deneb the enemy has to come to just outside your nation space in order to participate in these furballs which means you've got them right where you want them. The NPC capships slug them for repair costs and it takes rudimentary co-ordination to dispense with the dumb capship AI. Why would you play deneb when it means you get furballs right outside your home space if the enemy is dumb enough to come and fight you there?
Also the type of combat you do in deneb is hugely favourable to Itani who get the only interceptor ship that is any good at taking down a ragnarok mk III for like 10 systems. The SVG is terrible at this task and cannot possibly hope to dish out enough damage with its two ports and higher drain. The prometheus is much better at holding or defending objectives such as the conquerable stations in greyspace or CtC, thus all Serco nationalists are more interested in this content.
The Serco Dominion is done with Deneb. We're sick of it. So many of the old Serco nationalists have quit because they're sick of it too and rightly so. In RED we have raised a new generation of Serco Nationalists that love greyspace content - thank god for that, because if we taught them that Deneb was the pinnacle of Serco Nationalism they would have all become pirates by now and Nationalism would be relatively dead again like it was when I first started playing two years ago.
Incarnate has indicated he has no plans to reform Deneb in the near future, so as far as I'm concerned Deneb is just another place to train your licenses or practice stacking swarms. If the devs were to make the National ships tied to the outcome of Deneb, I would hang up my Serco nationalist shoes and create another greyspace guild and fly valkryies again.
Deneb needs a complete overhaul, there are no two ways about it.
Also, that's it? you want capship parts in deneb? You want to haul 200+ FCP all the way from deneb down to latos?
I'd rather build them, you'd have to be a madman to want this.
I'd rather build them, you'd have to be a madman to want this.
It seems rather stupid entirely. Deneb. I would love for the whole damn thing to be overhauled completely. The cappie parts dropping was a ready-up for when there is nation space cappie building, because it seems rather crazy that the only cappie station is in greyspace.
Yes, it's all stupid. That's why we don't play it. It's called the meta-game.
I giggle uncontrollably when ecka tries to tease us about deneb. The old fart is so delusional he can't see that he's the only person in the whole verse playing deneb.
I giggle uncontrollably when ecka tries to tease us about deneb. The old fart is so delusional he can't see that he's the only person in the whole verse playing deneb.
We do play it and I'd appreciate it if you'd stop convincing everyone on the Serco side to stop playing it. It's boring as hell when it's one-sided.
+1 to capship part drops. It'll make things interesting.
+1 to capship part drops. It'll make things interesting.
ARF, I've flown next to you in Deneb in my better days, so I know that you do.
To convince me to come to Deneb now, as I've stated before in similar threads:
1) Place a serco station in Deneb on the WH
2) Remove the distance from Initros to Geira to 1 or 2 WH's [I'm NOT going to create a deneb-only alt]
After that we can talk rewards and tweaks, but without these conditions I won't consider going there even if I'm bored stiff, shooting queens in nation space is more satisfying than participating in deneb.
To convince me to come to Deneb now, as I've stated before in similar threads:
1) Place a serco station in Deneb on the WH
2) Remove the distance from Initros to Geira to 1 or 2 WH's [I'm NOT going to create a deneb-only alt]
After that we can talk rewards and tweaks, but without these conditions I won't consider going there even if I'm bored stiff, shooting queens in nation space is more satisfying than participating in deneb.
2) Remove the distance from Initros to Geira to 1 or 2 WH's [I'm NOT going to create a deneb-only alt]
I think decreasing the Itani's distance is much more important.
TRS, quit complaining and grab a bloody Warthog Mk2 if you want to chase down bombers.
And if you add incentive to Deneb, it'll just be a bigger shitfest. (No offense to Incarnate)
I think decreasing the Itani's distance is much more important.
TRS, quit complaining and grab a bloody Warthog Mk2 if you want to chase down bombers.
And if you add incentive to Deneb, it'll just be a bigger shitfest. (No offense to Incarnate)
"I'd appreciate it if you'd stop convincing everyone on the Serco side to stop playing it"
Um, they don't need any convincing? the shitty imbalances and laggy gameplay is more than enough convincing. The 1,000,001 threads about little tweaks to improve it being ignored is also convincing enough for everyone else. I give my honest opinion, that it's boring. Nobody has to agree, the fact that they happen to isn't my fault.
"It's boring as hell when it's one-sided."
It's boring as hell period. And it's always been one-sided in favour of blue team as per above.
Snk:
The only 'complainant' here is Kierky, an Itani. We are not complaining about Deneb. I am happy for things to be the way right now with no deneb. I also think its much nicer to have furballs in Ukari A-10 than in Edras I-2, so why bother with all the extra effort?
And honestly, Warthog Mark II is a terrible chase ship unless your target is a Moth. Just terrible.
Also, because Eo is a capital system, an Itani player can actually beat a Serco player in a race from say Latos to Deneb. He just has to cause tempKOS until he gets rehomed to Eo and then it's just one system away. The closest the serco have is SolII which is 3 systems away.
Um, they don't need any convincing? the shitty imbalances and laggy gameplay is more than enough convincing. The 1,000,001 threads about little tweaks to improve it being ignored is also convincing enough for everyone else. I give my honest opinion, that it's boring. Nobody has to agree, the fact that they happen to isn't my fault.
"It's boring as hell when it's one-sided."
It's boring as hell period. And it's always been one-sided in favour of blue team as per above.
Snk:
The only 'complainant' here is Kierky, an Itani. We are not complaining about Deneb. I am happy for things to be the way right now with no deneb. I also think its much nicer to have furballs in Ukari A-10 than in Edras I-2, so why bother with all the extra effort?
And honestly, Warthog Mark II is a terrible chase ship unless your target is a Moth. Just terrible.
Also, because Eo is a capital system, an Itani player can actually beat a Serco player in a race from say Latos to Deneb. He just has to cause tempKOS until he gets rehomed to Eo and then it's just one system away. The closest the serco have is SolII which is 3 systems away.
Also, because Eo is a capital system, an Itani player can actually beat a Serco player in a race from say Latos to Deneb. He just has to cause tempKOS until he gets rehomed to Eo and then it's just one system away. The closest the serco have is SolII which is 3 systems away.
I love how you use a bug as a viable excuse for travel.
No.
I love how you use a bug as a viable excuse for travel.
No.
deneb is most fun when you can play against other people, thus it follows that playing deneb from the serco side is currently more enjoyable. Sercos who say they dont play because of itani biased imbalances are sore losers who really wouldnt do any better at deneb warfare if the biases were ever corrected. THEY ARE MINIMAL.
Adding higher tier capship drops, as previously discussed, would most certainly draw more people to Deneb.
Adding higher tier capship drops, as previously discussed, would most certainly draw more people to Deneb.
I liked playing in Deneb, even w/o other players. Just for the shooting.
But it's not good that we have to jump a wormhole and another sector jump, to get back there, specially when there is PvP activity. It's faster to get killed than to get back.
Easily solved with a Serco Station over there.
As for an increment there, what about a good prize in credits for deshielding those capital ships? Separated from the one you get for destroying it.
But it's not good that we have to jump a wormhole and another sector jump, to get back there, specially when there is PvP activity. It's faster to get killed than to get back.
Easily solved with a Serco Station over there.
As for an increment there, what about a good prize in credits for deshielding those capital ships? Separated from the one you get for destroying it.
I have agree with both arguments on this one. If you want to win in Deneb then it's all about bombers. More than that, it's about controlling the outcome of the first interaction of the Teradons so that yours wins and hopefully won't do something stupid before making a meaningful impact- that is assuming the thing doesn't park itself out of range. Once that is achieved, soloing the larger missions is a cake walk.
Now maybe someone like Greenwall can stack avalons well enough to that the Teradon becomes irrelevant. I got bored before reaching that point and once again took an extended holiday from the game. I think I might have been close though. Have them drop trident parts and keep them from timing out until you can get in there to collect them and I'd have some incentive to come back.
I honestly don't think Deneb makes for good PVP beyond the fighter skirmish. Like I said, it's all about the bombers, but I don't really mind the solitude since I don't much care to get involved with other players these days. I do think that Deneb SHOULD be the pinnacle of VO conflict.
+1 to OP
+1 to complete Deneb revision.
Now maybe someone like Greenwall can stack avalons well enough to that the Teradon becomes irrelevant. I got bored before reaching that point and once again took an extended holiday from the game. I think I might have been close though. Have them drop trident parts and keep them from timing out until you can get in there to collect them and I'd have some incentive to come back.
I honestly don't think Deneb makes for good PVP beyond the fighter skirmish. Like I said, it's all about the bombers, but I don't really mind the solitude since I don't much care to get involved with other players these days. I do think that Deneb SHOULD be the pinnacle of VO conflict.
+1 to OP
+1 to complete Deneb revision.
There'd be much more PvP if dogfighting was important.
2) Remove the distance from Initros to Geira to 1 or 2 WH's [I'm NOT going to create a deneb-only alt]
Man, you've gotta be kidding me. Take a look at how long Itani space is... Yeah, Serco can't complain about that one.
Man, you've gotta be kidding me. Take a look at how long Itani space is... Yeah, Serco can't complain about that one.
-1 to OP. It would just become another broken aspect of the game. People would just participate to farm cappie parts.
Sercos who say they dont play because of itani biased imbalances are sore losers who really wouldnt do any better at deneb warfare if the biases were ever corrected. THEY ARE MINIMAL.
Bullshit, Greenie. The travel distances to get back in sector after dying is handicap enough to make Deneb a chore to Serco if played long-term. Yes, it fits the backstory to make the invading force fight an uphill climb (something I embraced for as long as I could), but they would be using superior numbers and expect larger losses (supposedly having "the largest military" in the galaxy), so you won't mind if we ask for twice the casualty count, will you? Maybe double the Serco NPC's deployed?
As implemented, Deneb is merely a weekly game of "checkers", a level field would be appropriate.
Sercos who say they dont play because of itani biased imbalances are sore losers who really wouldnt do any better at deneb warfare if the biases were ever corrected. THEY ARE MINIMAL.
Bullshit, Greenie. The travel distances to get back in sector after dying is handicap enough to make Deneb a chore to Serco if played long-term. Yes, it fits the backstory to make the invading force fight an uphill climb (something I embraced for as long as I could), but they would be using superior numbers and expect larger losses (supposedly having "the largest military" in the galaxy), so you won't mind if we ask for twice the casualty count, will you? Maybe double the Serco NPC's deployed?
As implemented, Deneb is merely a weekly game of "checkers", a level field would be appropriate.
I realize I'm thread hijacking here, but I really don't care, so here goes.
The entire concept of contesting into empty sectors- I know, I know, lag- for no purpose is fundamentally flawed. Players are fighting over empty space which is absurd. At least you can mine the hive ring when you kill the Levi.
Combat needs to be based upon access to resources or construction projects. Said resources should be essential to ship and weapon construction for the war effort- I know funny right? It's like there is such a thing as 'need' in VO. That would imply limitation or <gasp> shortage. Construction projects should be meaningful in some way with regards to either resources or the war effort. Both should be designed in such a way as to minimize any bomber advantage.
Oh, and the ultimate showdown should always be over the wormhole.
The entire concept of contesting into empty sectors- I know, I know, lag- for no purpose is fundamentally flawed. Players are fighting over empty space which is absurd. At least you can mine the hive ring when you kill the Levi.
Combat needs to be based upon access to resources or construction projects. Said resources should be essential to ship and weapon construction for the war effort- I know funny right? It's like there is such a thing as 'need' in VO. That would imply limitation or <gasp> shortage. Construction projects should be meaningful in some way with regards to either resources or the war effort. Both should be designed in such a way as to minimize any bomber advantage.
Oh, and the ultimate showdown should always be over the wormhole.
as i have stated before in other threads: making deneb more balanced only makes sense, but in the meantime its not enough of a disadvantage to the serco to warrant a complete boycott. If serco could ever mobilize even a slight hint of coordination they'd do just fine.
and also lets not forget that deneb wll never be fully awesome until we get more people to play VO...yeah...
There is no organized boycott that I'm aware of, it's just a case of all the active serco not caring. I've pretty much come to accept that you have to play VO for what it is now and work around the broken. Deneb is an example of the broken so we leave it alone. If you're suggesting I attempt to force people to play it well that's laughable.
Everyone who felt obligated to play Deneb on a regular basis has quit. I like my guildies I'm not going to bully them into playing Deneb just because you itan whiners have a cry in some suggestion posts.
Everyone who felt obligated to play Deneb on a regular basis has quit. I like my guildies I'm not going to bully them into playing Deneb just because you itan whiners have a cry in some suggestion posts.