Forums » Suggestions
Now that TempKOS lasts 15 minutes or until you die, whichever comes first, I feel that it should be also adjusted to not cancel itself when the death is a suicide. Otherwise I can kill somebody in the NFZ, jump over to another station, grab a free bus, /explode, and go back. That takes time, but not much. Especially if I'm homed at the TempKOS station.
Requiring death at the hands of another ship still wouldn't stop me from leaving, grabbing a bus, and then coming back and letting the strike force finish the job. But it would at least require something else to kill me, instead of just /exploding, and I think that's an important psychological part of the "punishment".
Doing this would raise the issue of "Where do I go if I'm TempKOS with my home when I die?". I assume that it would treat it like a normal KOS with the home, and try to send you back to your nation's capital. However, that could be abused to warp across the galaxy, for example if you were in Bractus, you could home with C-5, shoot a guard, fly away, and then /explode, and get sent all the way back to the nation's capital. Instead, it should iterate through the neighboring stations until one is found that you can dock at. If there are none, it should try adjacent systems and so on until it does.
Requiring death at the hands of another ship still wouldn't stop me from leaving, grabbing a bus, and then coming back and letting the strike force finish the job. But it would at least require something else to kill me, instead of just /exploding, and I think that's an important psychological part of the "punishment".
Doing this would raise the issue of "Where do I go if I'm TempKOS with my home when I die?". I assume that it would treat it like a normal KOS with the home, and try to send you back to your nation's capital. However, that could be abused to warp across the galaxy, for example if you were in Bractus, you could home with C-5, shoot a guard, fly away, and then /explode, and get sent all the way back to the nation's capital. Instead, it should iterate through the neighboring stations until one is found that you can dock at. If there are none, it should try adjacent systems and so on until it does.
Why not just make tempKOS last 15 minutes, period?
"Why not just make tempKOS last 15 minutes, period?"
Seems a better idea.
Seems a better idea.
15 minutes period++
Because if it's 15 minutes period, I won't be able to kill a moth in the NFZ, let myself be killed, and then use my own moth to grab the cargo! :)
But yeah, from an objective viewpoint, that might be better. It would still have the same potential warp exploit though. That's actually the way I thought it was going to be, and it was only while testing to see if that exploit worked that I realized death still reset it. Then I reread the announcement and saw that it never said that part was changed.
Though I suppose my proposed workaround needs an amendment. It would need to have an additional check to avoid crossing into unfriendly nation space even if there is a dockable station there. Otherwise you could skip over the border into Verasi while perma-KOS with UIT by getting temp-kosed with the Edras station (and possibly with Itani and Ineubis to ensure it sends you west instead of north or south).
But yeah, from an objective viewpoint, that might be better. It would still have the same potential warp exploit though. That's actually the way I thought it was going to be, and it was only while testing to see if that exploit worked that I realized death still reset it. Then I reread the announcement and saw that it never said that part was changed.
Though I suppose my proposed workaround needs an amendment. It would need to have an additional check to avoid crossing into unfriendly nation space even if there is a dockable station there. Otherwise you could skip over the border into Verasi while perma-KOS with UIT by getting temp-kosed with the Edras station (and possibly with Itani and Ineubis to ensure it sends you west instead of north or south).
+1 to Suicide do not cancel TempKoS
+2 to make TempKoS last during that timeframe, no matter if you die many times or none.
+3 to increasing time for tempKoS due NFZ violations, double every time.
Finally, if you gets tempKoS with faction where you homed, respawn at nearest faction in grayspace, IF stading allows to, or else respawn at Corvus capital... Simply tempKoS cannot respawn in nation who assigned the penalty.
+2 to make TempKoS last during that timeframe, no matter if you die many times or none.
+3 to increasing time for tempKoS due NFZ violations, double every time.
Finally, if you gets tempKoS with faction where you homed, respawn at nearest faction in grayspace, IF stading allows to, or else respawn at Corvus capital... Simply tempKoS cannot respawn in nation who assigned the penalty.
Yeah suicide shouldn't cancel TempKOS. File that one under BUGS.
haha, I thought you were talking about this bug at first, Rin.
+1 to OP
In your example of skipping the UIT border to Verasi, Rin, it really doesn't matter if the KOS at the Edras station is temporary or permanent. It really should be fixed for both cases (assuming that is indeed the current behavior).
+1 to OP
In your example of skipping the UIT border to Verasi, Rin, it really doesn't matter if the KOS at the Edras station is temporary or permanent. It really should be fixed for both cases (assuming that is indeed the current behavior).
I think current behavior is to put you in a capital station. The border skipping was an example of what could happen if they change that carelessly.
The reason the current behavior would be bad is that tempkos is only temporary. People aren't likely to make themselves kos with a faction just so they can explode and appear back in their capital. If they could do that by just being temp-kos, they might. I would, anyway.
Though I've noticed that the current system doesn't seem to be consistent. Sometimes when I die the tempkos is reset, and sometimes it is not. When it isn't, I do get sent back to my home nation. I don't remember which station it was, but it was one of the ones in Arta C. I assume it was one of the several UIT capital stations. Also, once the temp-kos was lifted, and my home was still set to the original station, I continued getting sent back to arta until I re-homed (I double-checked, the display was still saying I was homed in Latos while this was happening).
I should probably file a bug, but I don't like making bug reports this late at night. I'll do sometime when I'm awake and reread this and don't realize I'm just being tired and stupid or something. And I want to fiddle with it a little first, see if I can find the pattern. Somebody mentioned maybe it depended on the number of recent offenses whether it expires on death. That deserves to be tested.
The reason the current behavior would be bad is that tempkos is only temporary. People aren't likely to make themselves kos with a faction just so they can explode and appear back in their capital. If they could do that by just being temp-kos, they might. I would, anyway.
Though I've noticed that the current system doesn't seem to be consistent. Sometimes when I die the tempkos is reset, and sometimes it is not. When it isn't, I do get sent back to my home nation. I don't remember which station it was, but it was one of the ones in Arta C. I assume it was one of the several UIT capital stations. Also, once the temp-kos was lifted, and my home was still set to the original station, I continued getting sent back to arta until I re-homed (I double-checked, the display was still saying I was homed in Latos while this was happening).
I should probably file a bug, but I don't like making bug reports this late at night. I'll do sometime when I'm awake and reread this and don't realize I'm just being tired and stupid or something. And I want to fiddle with it a little first, see if I can find the pattern. Somebody mentioned maybe it depended on the number of recent offenses whether it expires on death. That deserves to be tested.
If they do impliment this, whats gunna happen if I violate the Odia M-14 NFZ while homed there? Currently if that happens, it tries to send me to Sol II, which removes the KOS, but I cannot dock there, so it bounces me back to Odia M-14. If the Temp KOS is still set, I'll get bounced back n forth between Sol II and Odia M-14 for 15 mins.
Please don't do that. And don't say "well don't violate that NFZ" because well STFU.
Please don't do that. And don't say "well don't violate that NFZ" because well STFU.
hmm, perhaps Corvus stations shouldn't have the 15 min temp-KOS and instead go back to the old system where leaving the sector resets it.
Actually, the larger issue is how to handle newbies who just accidentally bring about KoS on themselves, and don't really understand what's happening. If a new person launches from a station, shoots a convoy and gets KoS established, they're now KoS at their home faction. That means they'll be relocated to another station somewhere (potentially really far away, very confusing), and at worst they'll be shoved out into grayspace at a Corvus station.
Handling suicide differently is possible, and worth considering. But what's really important here is to understand that this new Temp KoS persistency is just a first step, with other steps including "Backstabber" type warning badges and increasingly unpleasant ramifications and time periods, none of which is magically avoided unless the respective player forgives the kill. I've written about this in other threads in years past, which people can dig up if they want.
Handling suicide differently is possible, and worth considering. But what's really important here is to understand that this new Temp KoS persistency is just a first step, with other steps including "Backstabber" type warning badges and increasingly unpleasant ramifications and time periods, none of which is magically avoided unless the respective player forgives the kill. I've written about this in other threads in years past, which people can dig up if they want.
:O a backstabba badge?!?!? i wont!!!
Couple of suggestions to you excellent points inc:
Most newbies don't just come out blasting. And an established player baiting a new player into attacking has always existed, so this isn't a new problem. Perhaps there is a way to track first aggressor, and if both first aggressor and killer are both true, then apply the temp-kos.
And a lot of newbies migrate to a corvus station at some point anyway....so it's not entirely bad if they end up here.
Most newbies don't just come out blasting. And an established player baiting a new player into attacking has always existed, so this isn't a new problem. Perhaps there is a way to track first aggressor, and if both first aggressor and killer are both true, then apply the temp-kos.
And a lot of newbies migrate to a corvus station at some point anyway....so it's not entirely bad if they end up here.
Some newbies are stupid though Savet, and this being a game, people shouldn't be punished too harshly the first time they try something, especially since it takes a while to fully grasp the rules of the game's penalties.
For newbies, a gradual escalation of punishment would be the way to go, partially based on levels and partly on actions. Also with consideration taken for how much damage is actually done, so that it can be made heavier when somebody is doing worse things.
There could be a (possibly hidden) "legal status" meter, which tracks a player's progression from "Pilot in training", where penalties are light, to "Pilot", where penalties are harsher. Leveling up licenses, completing certain training missions, scoring PK's, and committing offenses would all increase the meter.
There would be no way to reduce the meter.
As long as the player is a pilot in training, they would get the old penalty for minor NFZ violations, e.g. firing a single shot at another ship. When the meter is empty, outright killing another ship inside the NFZ would result in a penalty more like the current one, but where death resets it consistently (even under lag, which may have been what my problem was). As the meter fills, the requirement for the stronger penalty changes from killing to dealing N% damage, where N would be roughly the remaining distance to fill the meter (e.g. at 20% full, doing 80% damage gets the second penalty).
Once the meter is full, doing any damage would result in the second penalty. Also, at that point the player would get a warning that he is no longer consider a pilot in training and will be responsible for his actions, and the resetting on death will stop happening.
This could potentially be extended to deal with things like outlaws and what-not, but I think that is something that should happen on a nation by nation basis, and is a bit OT anyway.
Also, the "meter" doesn't have to actually exist as a variable or anything. It could just be a formula that takes in the player's licenses, pk count, and number of infractions as parameters and spits out a number. As opposed to the faction standings, where a value is actually stored and tracked. (I'm assuming that you do intend to keep a count of violations anyway, if you don't already.)
For newbies, a gradual escalation of punishment would be the way to go, partially based on levels and partly on actions. Also with consideration taken for how much damage is actually done, so that it can be made heavier when somebody is doing worse things.
There could be a (possibly hidden) "legal status" meter, which tracks a player's progression from "Pilot in training", where penalties are light, to "Pilot", where penalties are harsher. Leveling up licenses, completing certain training missions, scoring PK's, and committing offenses would all increase the meter.
There would be no way to reduce the meter.
As long as the player is a pilot in training, they would get the old penalty for minor NFZ violations, e.g. firing a single shot at another ship. When the meter is empty, outright killing another ship inside the NFZ would result in a penalty more like the current one, but where death resets it consistently (even under lag, which may have been what my problem was). As the meter fills, the requirement for the stronger penalty changes from killing to dealing N% damage, where N would be roughly the remaining distance to fill the meter (e.g. at 20% full, doing 80% damage gets the second penalty).
Once the meter is full, doing any damage would result in the second penalty. Also, at that point the player would get a warning that he is no longer consider a pilot in training and will be responsible for his actions, and the resetting on death will stop happening.
This could potentially be extended to deal with things like outlaws and what-not, but I think that is something that should happen on a nation by nation basis, and is a bit OT anyway.
Also, the "meter" doesn't have to actually exist as a variable or anything. It could just be a formula that takes in the player's licenses, pk count, and number of infractions as parameters and spits out a number. As opposed to the faction standings, where a value is actually stored and tracked. (I'm assuming that you do intend to keep a count of violations anyway, if you don't already.)
+1 to the meter idea
people, looks like ye're from another 'verse.. just blind? -1.
They should add six stars to the HUD that fill up as you commit crimes, and then add shops where we can spray paint our ships to remove up to a certain number of these. It would be even cooler if we can pull people out of their ships and beat them up, then jump into their ship and fly off.
All joking aside, I think less than or equal to Combat 3 and it uses the old system.
All joking aside, I think less than or equal to Combat 3 and it uses the old system.
A "probationary" warning for the first offense with a strongly worded reprimand would be reasonable.
Death is no excuse for not being punished. 15 minutes plus some bonus time if you die!
ok then just the straight up 15 minutes if you please.
As to the Odia issue if a player is KOS everywhere then prohibit them from entering the game for the 15 minutes... Serves them right for being a moron. Perhaps redirect them to a screen with them being spanked .....just to add insult to injury ...
Or you could consider a very old idea and place a broken down station in odia that is unaligned and only sells free buses....
Death is no excuse for not being punished. 15 minutes plus some bonus time if you die!
ok then just the straight up 15 minutes if you please.
As to the Odia issue if a player is KOS everywhere then prohibit them from entering the game for the 15 minutes... Serves them right for being a moron. Perhaps redirect them to a screen with them being spanked .....just to add insult to injury ...
Or you could consider a very old idea and place a broken down station in odia that is unaligned and only sells free buses....
I've always argued that death should result in a monetary loss proportional to your total levels, but that's another thread I suppose.
+1 to TempKOS = 15 minutes regardless with graded penalties for new players.
+1 to TempKOS = 15 minutes regardless with graded penalties for new players.