Forums » Suggestions
Reading the Suggestions forum in order to check out Dr. Lecter's thoughts on the Behemoth, I noted a common thread which I have experienced personally in VO -- there's very little crafting going on.
That's not because crafting isn't available. It is, however, an activity that generally gets you a product you can't reasonably use or don't want to use because you've spent so much time crafting it.
Let's review some craft items and the caveats thrown in to make each one basically useless for VO game play -- game play being the real reward.
Pet Bots: craft up to three Stygian Furies. Relatively simple to make and Axia Must Die is a fun mission. Caveat: there is never any point to using more than one bot, because if one dies, they all die -- and they die very easily.
Extreem Drain Battery Basic: I've not tried the later variants, because after seeing the first one, why would I want to make more? (Created by serving as a wingman on Axia mining missions or mining for Axia -- forgive me for forgetting which.)Caveat: can only power one weapon. What good is a battery that has grid power of 4? Ooooh, a really good battery for my single port Centurion. Better yet, let's put it in my crafted SuperLight!
Centurion SuperLight: I think we all admit that this is a pretty cool ship, but you aren't going to fight with it. That's the caveat -- it took you too long to make it!
Corvus Widowmaker: Nice weapon, for your Centurion. Caveat: 18 grid power! Since it consumes so much grid power, unless you plan on running lots of addons, there's no reason to use it for any other ship. Oh wait, don't addons take grid power too? So far, much of the battery/ship/weapon crafting seems to be focused on bringing the single port Centurion back into the fighting universe. Uh, sorry -- there's a reason why people like the Valkyrie so much and it's the THREE small ports.
Light Xithricite Mining Beam: Get this by doing those various "We Need Help Making This" missions. OK, if it fit in a small port, like if it was really light, that would make sense. Caveat: it's not as good as the existing Xithricite mining beam, so only someone who doesn't qualify to use that beam is even going to be interested in it.
Teller-Ulam Mine: I've crafted this at Latos I8 more than once and will admit that having special crafting missions at conqueralbe stations do make the stations something to covet. Nevertheless, it's powerful (oh yeah), but the caveats are many. Caveats: Besides taking forever and an arm and a leg to build (many real life hours), it requires a full heavy battery to launch. Since it's launcher is also really heavy, this means it is almost always a suicide mission to attempt to launch one of these bombs. Oh, BTW, did we mention that it costs a million credits to reload? You better have a key to a station if you want to use this thing. In addition, despite trying, I have yet to successfully deploy this thing against an enemy.
There's a few more things that I could discuss, but you get the point: the problem with crafting is that there is nothing worth crafting. There are things to craft, but their caveats are designed to give them extremely limited utility. If they are useful, you gnash your teeth once you lose them because they took so much time to build. And VO is a universe designed so that you will lose things!
Fixing crafting: remove the caveats.
Give the Extreem Drain battery full grid power -- at least enough to power three small ports (12 power)!
Make the Widowmaker like the Gauss III -- 8 grid power -- not 18!
Make the Superlight available for purchase, but make the Greyhound craftable! A Greyhound is not a PvP device -- it's a selective hunting device, as the name suggests. It is far more likely to last in the hands of a pilot using it for its intended purpose (convoy and trader chasing) than a SuperLight, which right now is nothing more than a tube racer. The Greyhound would also actually be worth the time spent crafting, unlike the SuperLight.
Light Xithricite Mining Beam: Make it truly useful -- turn it into a small port device.
Pet Bots: If they can't live independent of each other, don't even bother making three of them available, because there's no sense watching all three get blown up when one gets destroyed.
The TU Mine: no more than 250 energy to launch. And a million credits each? Seriously? Try 100K, max, and someone might actually load this thing out for kicks. Drop the weight by half so the user can actually escape it's blast -- or at least make the majority of the weight in the mine itself, so that you're freed of the weight once you drop it! I don't know why the devs are afraid of this weapon proliferating, because Chaos Swarms are exponentially more devastating.
That's not because crafting isn't available. It is, however, an activity that generally gets you a product you can't reasonably use or don't want to use because you've spent so much time crafting it.
Let's review some craft items and the caveats thrown in to make each one basically useless for VO game play -- game play being the real reward.
Pet Bots: craft up to three Stygian Furies. Relatively simple to make and Axia Must Die is a fun mission. Caveat: there is never any point to using more than one bot, because if one dies, they all die -- and they die very easily.
Extreem Drain Battery Basic: I've not tried the later variants, because after seeing the first one, why would I want to make more? (Created by serving as a wingman on Axia mining missions or mining for Axia -- forgive me for forgetting which.)Caveat: can only power one weapon. What good is a battery that has grid power of 4? Ooooh, a really good battery for my single port Centurion. Better yet, let's put it in my crafted SuperLight!
Centurion SuperLight: I think we all admit that this is a pretty cool ship, but you aren't going to fight with it. That's the caveat -- it took you too long to make it!
Corvus Widowmaker: Nice weapon, for your Centurion. Caveat: 18 grid power! Since it consumes so much grid power, unless you plan on running lots of addons, there's no reason to use it for any other ship. Oh wait, don't addons take grid power too? So far, much of the battery/ship/weapon crafting seems to be focused on bringing the single port Centurion back into the fighting universe. Uh, sorry -- there's a reason why people like the Valkyrie so much and it's the THREE small ports.
Light Xithricite Mining Beam: Get this by doing those various "We Need Help Making This" missions. OK, if it fit in a small port, like if it was really light, that would make sense. Caveat: it's not as good as the existing Xithricite mining beam, so only someone who doesn't qualify to use that beam is even going to be interested in it.
Teller-Ulam Mine: I've crafted this at Latos I8 more than once and will admit that having special crafting missions at conqueralbe stations do make the stations something to covet. Nevertheless, it's powerful (oh yeah), but the caveats are many. Caveats: Besides taking forever and an arm and a leg to build (many real life hours), it requires a full heavy battery to launch. Since it's launcher is also really heavy, this means it is almost always a suicide mission to attempt to launch one of these bombs. Oh, BTW, did we mention that it costs a million credits to reload? You better have a key to a station if you want to use this thing. In addition, despite trying, I have yet to successfully deploy this thing against an enemy.
There's a few more things that I could discuss, but you get the point: the problem with crafting is that there is nothing worth crafting. There are things to craft, but their caveats are designed to give them extremely limited utility. If they are useful, you gnash your teeth once you lose them because they took so much time to build. And VO is a universe designed so that you will lose things!
Fixing crafting: remove the caveats.
Give the Extreem Drain battery full grid power -- at least enough to power three small ports (12 power)!
Make the Widowmaker like the Gauss III -- 8 grid power -- not 18!
Make the Superlight available for purchase, but make the Greyhound craftable! A Greyhound is not a PvP device -- it's a selective hunting device, as the name suggests. It is far more likely to last in the hands of a pilot using it for its intended purpose (convoy and trader chasing) than a SuperLight, which right now is nothing more than a tube racer. The Greyhound would also actually be worth the time spent crafting, unlike the SuperLight.
Light Xithricite Mining Beam: Make it truly useful -- turn it into a small port device.
Pet Bots: If they can't live independent of each other, don't even bother making three of them available, because there's no sense watching all three get blown up when one gets destroyed.
The TU Mine: no more than 250 energy to launch. And a million credits each? Seriously? Try 100K, max, and someone might actually load this thing out for kicks. Drop the weight by half so the user can actually escape it's blast -- or at least make the majority of the weight in the mine itself, so that you're freed of the weight once you drop it! I don't know why the devs are afraid of this weapon proliferating, because Chaos Swarms are exponentially more devastating.
I don't really agree with all of these, but +1 to the Furies. I mean who the fuck decided that you need to keep all 3 alive at the same time to function....
The widowmaker should be reduced to 17 drain. no less. Two of these, or even one of these and any other weapon should never fit on anything. I use the widowmaker in combat. I have lost them. I have made more. I use them on valks. Just because a ship has more than one port doesn't mean you have to fill all the ports. I used to kill left and right with a one gun vult3.
I did not know about the new power cell. Thanks for the heads up. I can see where it would be very useful to drive a widowmaker or megaposi. Almost sounds like the perfect power cell for a greyhound fitted with a ion storm extender and mp. Please do not make this cell more than 7 grid. How do I get one (or three)?
I see greyhounds get lost in combat far more than I see ultra lights get lost in combat. I hear an ultra light is dirt cheap to repair. I do love it when I get the kill on an ultra light. heh.
I did not know about the new power cell. Thanks for the heads up. I can see where it would be very useful to drive a widowmaker or megaposi. Almost sounds like the perfect power cell for a greyhound fitted with a ion storm extender and mp. Please do not make this cell more than 7 grid. How do I get one (or three)?
I see greyhounds get lost in combat far more than I see ultra lights get lost in combat. I hear an ultra light is dirt cheap to repair. I do love it when I get the kill on an ultra light. heh.
A Greyhound is not a PvP device -- it's a selective hunting device, as the name suggests. It is far more likely to last in the hands of a pilot using it for its intended purpose (convoy and trader chasing) than a SuperLight, which right now is nothing more than a tube racer. The Greyhound would also actually be worth the time spent crafting, unlike the SuperLight.
You need to get your head out of your ass and spend a lot more time pirating large, multi-moth + capship convoys if you think these things don't get blotted out of the Void with reasonable regularity.
You need to get your head out of your ass and spend a lot more time pirating large, multi-moth + capship convoys if you think these things don't get blotted out of the Void with reasonable regularity.
You are making a load of sense here Cranston. Essentially removing (most of the) caveats would make crafting worthwhile. As it is now, crafting is equal to grinding.
The widowmaker was made with the high drain to preclude it from being used with other weapons and the drain was implemented specifically for this purpose. It will probably have some other use later on, to arrive soon (TM)
I think it would be interesting with a crafting mission for the Hound, as long as the crafting missions would cater to the right people. No mindless harvesting of armour plates and Orun chips. The ones supposed to use the hound are rats, the crafting mission should reflect this. That said, if it was a crafted mission, its repair cost should probably be divided by 10 instead of the current mindnumbing figure.
As to the SL, it makes sense to have a ship that is so hard to make only if the ship could be sold to other players. But that is for another thread
The widowmaker was made with the high drain to preclude it from being used with other weapons and the drain was implemented specifically for this purpose. It will probably have some other use later on, to arrive soon (TM)
I think it would be interesting with a crafting mission for the Hound, as long as the crafting missions would cater to the right people. No mindless harvesting of armour plates and Orun chips. The ones supposed to use the hound are rats, the crafting mission should reflect this. That said, if it was a crafted mission, its repair cost should probably be divided by 10 instead of the current mindnumbing figure.
As to the SL, it makes sense to have a ship that is so hard to make only if the ship could be sold to other players. But that is for another thread
I'm not sure any of the craftable items need changes to their specs, but they *all* need to be easier to craft.
After a few threads on this sort of thing, I've come to the conclusion that items which are too valuable to lose make the game less fun. It's annoying enough that a few Valkjocks run away when they start to lose fights because it's too much work to bring ships to Sedina from Jallik. Items that are even more difficult to replace only encourage running.
A Superlight should require you to ship an single XC-load of crap from Dau to Sedina. Said crap should have a modest cost (~100k or less) in Dau and a high sell price (~500k or more) in Odia (maybe all Corvus stations) to encourage piracy. This sort of change wouldn't just make crafting a quicker process, it would become risky and fun. Other items should have similar runs, requiring a shipment in to or out of grey space, though most of them should have slightly lower requirements (e.g. 2 WMs per XC-load).
After a few threads on this sort of thing, I've come to the conclusion that items which are too valuable to lose make the game less fun. It's annoying enough that a few Valkjocks run away when they start to lose fights because it's too much work to bring ships to Sedina from Jallik. Items that are even more difficult to replace only encourage running.
A Superlight should require you to ship an single XC-load of crap from Dau to Sedina. Said crap should have a modest cost (~100k or less) in Dau and a high sell price (~500k or more) in Odia (maybe all Corvus stations) to encourage piracy. This sort of change wouldn't just make crafting a quicker process, it would become risky and fun. Other items should have similar runs, requiring a shipment in to or out of grey space, though most of them should have slightly lower requirements (e.g. 2 WMs per XC-load).
good OP idea.
though
"The TU Mine: no more than 250 energy to launch. And a million credits each? "
not really true - depends on where do you refill
though
"The TU Mine: no more than 250 energy to launch. And a million credits each? "
not really true - depends on where do you refill
greyhound / crafting / rats
lol
: )
EDIT
heh by crafting do ye mean that players could collect "ears" from faction admired players kills in station / monitored sectors and exchange those "ears" for a shiny greyhound? : ]
replace "ears" by any other parts of anatomy
lol
: )
EDIT
heh by crafting do ye mean that players could collect "ears" from faction admired players kills in station / monitored sectors and exchange those "ears" for a shiny greyhound? : ]
replace "ears" by any other parts of anatomy
Something like that BT. Strangely, the Hound needs the exact engine parts you can only find in a used Moth, Centaur, INSERT TRADESHIP HERE engine.
I am perfectly aware that most rats are action junkies (and good for them:)) and as such abhore the idea of collecting assorted crap from all over the place. Hell, even I find it tedious and bordering on extremely boring (and I find mining interesting...) However, imagine that you can find an assploded trader widget in the wreckage of a trader, and six of those along with 60 scrap (just pulling a figure here) allows you to purchase the Hound at a tenth of the price. Furthermore, it would be a tenth of the price to repair.
Someone had an interesting idea of crafting the XC. I know it sounds horrific to many traders, hear me out please. Imagine that you "only" need an amount of Corvus Holo discs extra as crafting price for the purchase, thus pseudo-crafting and nothing that will really affect you. Again, the item is just pulled out of thin air. It should, however, be something that is found EXCLUSIVELY in grey, thus making it interesting and semi-necessary to run in grey.
Somehow I think we have failed completely to understand what crafting should mean. How come you have to ship hull plates from all over space to Sedina when the Corvus station itself churns out ships by the thousands? Crafting should mean supplying that special item that makes this majiggy you want to create tick.
zak, you are right on. A single mothfull of SPECIAL junk should be all that is required for anything short of a capitol ship. And crafting should and hopefully would be more ubiquitous.
Crafting should be fun, RP related and not laborious and "work-like".
/me slinks back in the hole
edit: Twas pirren here: http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/23273
I am perfectly aware that most rats are action junkies (and good for them:)) and as such abhore the idea of collecting assorted crap from all over the place. Hell, even I find it tedious and bordering on extremely boring (and I find mining interesting...) However, imagine that you can find an assploded trader widget in the wreckage of a trader, and six of those along with 60 scrap (just pulling a figure here) allows you to purchase the Hound at a tenth of the price. Furthermore, it would be a tenth of the price to repair.
Someone had an interesting idea of crafting the XC. I know it sounds horrific to many traders, hear me out please. Imagine that you "only" need an amount of Corvus Holo discs extra as crafting price for the purchase, thus pseudo-crafting and nothing that will really affect you. Again, the item is just pulled out of thin air. It should, however, be something that is found EXCLUSIVELY in grey, thus making it interesting and semi-necessary to run in grey.
Somehow I think we have failed completely to understand what crafting should mean. How come you have to ship hull plates from all over space to Sedina when the Corvus station itself churns out ships by the thousands? Crafting should mean supplying that special item that makes this majiggy you want to create tick.
zak, you are right on. A single mothfull of SPECIAL junk should be all that is required for anything short of a capitol ship. And crafting should and hopefully would be more ubiquitous.
Crafting should be fun, RP related and not laborious and "work-like".
/me slinks back in the hole
edit: Twas pirren here: http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/23273
I mean who the fuck decided that you need to keep all 3 alive at the same time to function....
It was me. I did it for some kind of reason related to the mission editor and the way accomplishment flags are handled, which I don't fully remember. I can take a look at it and see if there's a workaround.
It was me. I did it for some kind of reason related to the mission editor and the way accomplishment flags are handled, which I don't fully remember. I can take a look at it and see if there's a workaround.
+1 to changing furies, xith beams, the powercell, and biocom mines.
-1 to changing SL/Greyhound: Greyhounds should NOT be craftable. They are used too widely and die too easily. Superlight should NOT be bought. As I've pointed out in other threads, they are the most maneuverable ship in the game.
-1 to changing widowmakers: The widowmaker is powerful alone, if you know how to use one (I don't, instead prefer two guns).
+1 to changing xith beams: They suck. Need to be fixed.
+1 to changing biocom mines: I've used one once, and never reloaded it because of the bill. What's the point in making one if you can't really use it?
+1 to changing the powercell: Never seen one, but now I want one. If it has 4 grid, it instantly is useless. Maybe a single LENB on a cent would work with this, but otherwise, I can't see any use.
+1 to changing furies: Current system is pretty ridiculous.
-1 to changing SL/Greyhound: Greyhounds should NOT be craftable. They are used too widely and die too easily. Superlight should NOT be bought. As I've pointed out in other threads, they are the most maneuverable ship in the game.
-1 to changing widowmakers: The widowmaker is powerful alone, if you know how to use one (I don't, instead prefer two guns).
+1 to changing xith beams: They suck. Need to be fixed.
+1 to changing biocom mines: I've used one once, and never reloaded it because of the bill. What's the point in making one if you can't really use it?
+1 to changing the powercell: Never seen one, but now I want one. If it has 4 grid, it instantly is useless. Maybe a single LENB on a cent would work with this, but otherwise, I can't see any use.
+1 to changing furies: Current system is pretty ridiculous.
Thank you for the OP.
I agree with Nahin on all but CWM. Well, it may be a powerful gun but how much do you sell each of them for? 1.5M? More? If you spend 1.5M and bring the weapon to a combat you should get some advantage. Moreover, two CWM at once, twice the chance of dropping one. 18 grid usage is too much in any meaning.
I wonder why some people are so mad about 2 CWM but they are fine with triple/quad Sunny Flares or quad Advanced Rail setups which are way more powerful.
This is for a separate thread but I believe CWM grid should be lowered and vice versa, at least, for flares.
Remember, that often spelled ~balance~ is the real killer of this game.
I agree with Nahin on all but CWM. Well, it may be a powerful gun but how much do you sell each of them for? 1.5M? More? If you spend 1.5M and bring the weapon to a combat you should get some advantage. Moreover, two CWM at once, twice the chance of dropping one. 18 grid usage is too much in any meaning.
I wonder why some people are so mad about 2 CWM but they are fine with triple/quad Sunny Flares or quad Advanced Rail setups which are way more powerful.
This is for a separate thread but I believe CWM grid should be lowered and vice versa, at least, for flares.
Remember, that often spelled ~balance~ is the real killer of this game.
Widowmakers are undervalued by most and aren't actually that difficult to make. Two of them on a ship isn't going to happen.
The Widowmaker is quite effective. The extra 5m/s over any other blaster matters more than you might think. For those of you who think the grid power should be dropped to 16 or some such, imagine Strat with a Widowmaker/Sunflare RevC and see if you still feel that way.
The superlight is the most maneuverable ship in the game. It also has some of the lightest armor and only one gun port. It's the ultimate light fighter; that doesn't imply that it's unbalanced or should require hours of grinding to produce. We have an ultimate medium fighter (the Valkyrie) and an ultimate heavy (the Skyprom), but the ultimate light fighter is so hard to get that it's virtually never seen in combat.
The superlight is the most maneuverable ship in the game. It also has some of the lightest armor and only one gun port. It's the ultimate light fighter; that doesn't imply that it's unbalanced or should require hours of grinding to produce. We have an ultimate medium fighter (the Valkyrie) and an ultimate heavy (the Skyprom), but the ultimate light fighter is so hard to get that it's virtually never seen in combat.
"The extra 5m/s over any other blaster matters more than you might think."
Do not try to figure what I think, rather stick to facts. It is simple, CMW is 2.38% faster than AAP.
"The superlight is the most maneuverable ship in the game."
Why do you think? The IDF has better spin/thrust to mass ratios plus a lot of armor and three ports. And yes, a bigger hull to be hit. It has been previously discussed.
"imagine Strat with a Widowmaker/Sunflare"
Trying to scare someone? Last time we had to imagine Maalik with 2 CWM. Now, it is Strat. This is funny but not an argument. If you are scared of someone's particular setup, set up your ship appropriately.
"Two of them on a ship isn't going to happen."
Well, what about grid 12 then?
Then give Ice/Star/Sun flares grid 8/10/12 and zak.wilson can sleep with no strat in his nightmares.
Do not try to figure what I think, rather stick to facts. It is simple, CMW is 2.38% faster than AAP.
"The superlight is the most maneuverable ship in the game."
Why do you think? The IDF has better spin/thrust to mass ratios plus a lot of armor and three ports. And yes, a bigger hull to be hit. It has been previously discussed.
"imagine Strat with a Widowmaker/Sunflare"
Trying to scare someone? Last time we had to imagine Maalik with 2 CWM. Now, it is Strat. This is funny but not an argument. If you are scared of someone's particular setup, set up your ship appropriately.
"Two of them on a ship isn't going to happen."
Well, what about grid 12 then?
Then give Ice/Star/Sun flares grid 8/10/12 and zak.wilson can sleep with no strat in his nightmares.
but but but if the cwm is 8 grid then i can have two on a valk and one sun flare and strat can still have 2 suns and a cwm.
oh nvm that makes sense.
oh nvm that makes sense.
8 grid for WM makes sence. (even without raising grid usage for flares.)
The Superlight wins over the IDF because it has 10m/s higher combat speed. "Drag" starts to counter acceleration at fairly modest speeds; a bit more combat speed offsets that significantly.
"The Superlight wins over the IDF"
Do you have some serious objective statistics to back this claim?
I agree that 75 m/s is a combat advantage. I am not that sure that it is as simple as to say "Superlight wins over the IDF".
Do you have some serious objective statistics to back this claim?
I agree that 75 m/s is a combat advantage. I am not that sure that it is as simple as to say "Superlight wins over the IDF".
Personally, I've always found the fact that a CORVUS mission requires you to go to NATION SPACE, where a good number Grey denizens are KOS to be rather contradictory. I have never flown a SuperLight, due to the fact that until recently, I have been UIT KOS since the day I created this character 4yrs ago.
So ya! Let's just make the Greyhound one of those ships I, as a self-proclaimed Unaligned citizen can't get! THAT WOULD BE AWESOME THX!
If I have to enter Nation Space to buy an already outrageously expensive ship to buy/repair, you can accept this as my resignation!
So ya! Let's just make the Greyhound one of those ships I, as a self-proclaimed Unaligned citizen can't get! THAT WOULD BE AWESOME THX!
If I have to enter Nation Space to buy an already outrageously expensive ship to buy/repair, you can accept this as my resignation!