Original Post by Death Fluffy
With regard to selling ships, I would like to see a consignee system implemented which would allow players to place ships or items for sale at a price of their choosing- with a slight percentage of that going to the station as cost of doing business. So for example, I could take the time to haul 20 X1's down to Sedina and post them for sale at say $200,000cr each. This would cover the cost of purchase, labor involved in moving the vehicle and give me a modest profit. Qualified players could put fully constructed superlights up for sale at say 2,000,000cr each.

Reply post by vskye
Agrees with you on ship selling at the station AND allowing you to set a price that you want. That would work, and allow some friendly price wars between folks.

Reply post by Kierky
I think this would be great for Player to Player communication and trading extensively, and this should fit under the normal items quoting "Commodities offered by Players", "Ships offered by Players", "Weapons offered by players".
It should also note how many are in stock, how much per item/ship and who the seller is, and of course, the stats of the ship/item in question. This would also introduce a function for the Welcome screen. Notifying the player offering that the ship/item has been purchased, and should transfer credits once the player offering the ship/item docks. Until then it should remain with the station. But I love the idea and would be so glad if this became a reality in the near future

yes please if this is implimented tell us who the person who put these items on the market is

http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/21982#271967

So because I can buy ultracharge powercells, I should be allowed to buy 1000 of them and put them up for consignment at the same station? I don't mind this if the station takes a major cut. Like 100k per badge skipped and 10k per level requirement skipped. in addition to it's other charges. I don't mind someone selling valks on the black market, as long as the station is pulling several 100k per valk, above and beyond what the seller makes. But skipping badges or levels should cost an arm and a leg, and should only be doable at certain stations.

Why should the station, rather than the seller, be taking the cut? I do think that there should be moderate to severe reputational (faction) and anonymity (seller is IDed anywhere but Corvus: name & shame) repercussions of, say, putting an X-1 up for sale.

lecter even on the black market you still know who you are buying something from, why would we let a bunch of carebear traders sell valks in sedina to other carebear traders let alone pirates who would then turn around and use them to kill said traders.

you still know who you are buying something from

Pey, we're sharing a guild tag now, so I'd like to elevate the tone of our discourse. Bearing that in mind, I pose the following question: are you fucking brain damaged?

You know where you're going to buy the item, sure, but what do you know about the fence who's selling it? Not much. What do you know about the player who sold him the item? Jack shit. I agree that there should always be a faction hit for sales, but don't see why Corvus should list that Dr. Lecter put 200 Itani Valkyries up for sale.

I would love to see illicit trade in ships/arms available only in nation space become something big. Selling the items should tank your standing with the nation that produced them, thus requiring that you find a way to trade out in space with someone who can buy such goodies. Because of the stupidly effective border defenses, these transactions would have to occur outside the protections of that nation's space--even better.

The main problem here is that ships, the big ticket nation specific items, are very hard to smuggle, having to be flown by the buyer to the black market sale point. Until we can get ship widgets that fit in moths... But maybe that's not such a bad thing, making it a royal pain to sell valks/proms in Grey.

America doesn't own very many Mig fighters. Russia doesn't own any F-15 fighters. The cross exchange between these nations/items is so minimalistic as to virtually not exist. You might buy a valk and put it on the black market...once. And then never be allowed in Itani space again. It is one thing for some n3 to show up with the serial numbers filed off, but valks and proms are purchased one at a time, and should be assumed to be highly regulated items.

I say that any idea of bypassing purchase requirements is too complex, too limited, and just not worth trying to get the devs to implement.

Your secondary agenda is getting in the way of your primary agenda.

You might buy a valk and put it on the black market...once. And then never be allowed in Itani space again.

Didn't I just say that?

lecter its pretty easy to find out where something you purchased came from and the trail that it took to the store in most cases it says on the box "made in china" "fair trade" and specially on the black market you aren't going to just throw down hard cash for something that "some guy who you aren't allowed to meet procured" hmm sounds a lot like a sting operation

Pey, work through this with me:

Let's say I have a friend at work--we work at a gas station--who is from Mexico and has a lot of day laborer/migrant friends who hang out at our gas station. One day, he comes to me and says 'Hey, this migrant worker who showed up a month or so ago, he's got friends back home in with the [pick your poison] cartel. They'd pay big for some Americano hardware from one of our bases, you know? Don't you have friends at that national guard base in town and at Quantico?"

You think I'm gonna jack a few crates of M-16s/M-4s by paying off my buddy in the armory, and then just send 'em down South of the border way as is? Hell no. I'm gonna have a Dremel party with my amigos before anything changes hands--no serial #s, no markings, nothing. Then we'll hand 'em over to some guy with an 18 wheeler, take our cash, and try to avoid any suspicious banking activity for a few years. And when those weapons are for sale in Mexico? Nobody's gonna trace shit.

So, for game balance/play reasons, I think the faction should "know" when you actually sell their restricted tech to a station for 'consignment'. But, at least at Corvus, I don't think we should advertise who's perpetuating the arms bazzar in Grey--that's sure as Hell not how it works in the real world. And only with plausible deniability can "clean" guilds like TGFT be involved in this sort of illicit activity.

who says clean guilds have to be invloved? I'm sorry but lecter if i buy anything illegal i want to know who the person i am buying from got it, if they are a respected provider and if its legit otherwise shit is not going down, and I am more then positive that corvus would be quiet suspicious about major traders offering up combat ships for sale with out making some other sort of concessions to the them.

your whole story proves my point you know the guy who you are dealing through you work with him everyday you trust him to vouche for a guy that you don't know. it would be the same thing with corvus i highly doubt they would sell things to pirates that the funds from the sale where being directly funneled to anti-pirate groups

You're officially too stupid to breathe. Please go play 'swallow the stuff under the sink.'

Peytros, the black market doesn't work that way. Corvus doesn't care who you are, as long as the goods check out or your money is good. It doesn't matter who sold the goods to Corvus (or the pawn shop owner downtown for that matter). It would discourage a lot of good business to try to attach names and faces to things like that.

The station could take 15% (and then +20% per info) of your profits if you wish to keep a certain piece of identity information secret. In light of this, the stations provide 2 pieces of information to the buyer. These being, Name and Initial Faction Alignment.

This could also bring the Bounty Hunter incentive back. A person could report a black-market nation ship, provided that they have the provided information and the ship has not been sold by the time that the information has reached a nation space marshal. This is where the faction hit to the seller may come from. Also, if you bust someone for selling nation ships on the black-market, you get their projected profit [which is the total profit minus the station fees (15% of total profit)].

Anyway, those are just some ideas.

peytros, if you buy something illegal, you sure as shit don't want to know everyone down the line. It's called "plausible deniability".

Furthermore, they really don't want you to know about them... This a system where everyone loses with perfect information.

If I get a leather jacket from some shady guy selling them out the back of a van, I really don't want to know which old grandmother got tossed off her harley for it.

"I'm sorry but lecter if i buy anything illegal i want to know who the person i am buying from got it, if they are a respected provider and if its legit"

Paradox Alert

shape buying stolen weapons and a leather jacket are two different things. I sure as shit want to know the weapons that i am buying aren't going to funding them same people i am going to be using them on.

a) We could ask for a simple system that skips all these details, and then ask for these kinds of details later.

b) We could get bogged down in all these details now, and never agree on what we are asking for.

On with the bogging: If you sell something to someone, they either know who you are, or at least check to make sure they are getting what they pay for. If you don't want them to tell anyone where they got it, that typically cost extra. But there is no guarantee. If so one else is willing to pay enough extra, they might still be able to find out who you are.

In short, there is next to no hope of making an automated system emulate the complexities of human behavior. Stop trying.

The simple system is make the automation handle the mechanical requirements of trading, and let humans emulate the complexities of humans. If you want to dump that valk quietly, you need to find a player to fence it for you.

You know, the ships are made *somewhere* and must be moved *somewhere else* to be available at all these stations. If someone could jack the transports moving the ships then you don't have to worry about faction loss (provided you do it in a storm/unmonitored sector)...

As for the faction hit in selling items - why the hell would Corvus report anything back to nation space? If word got back, how could the nation "authorities" have any solid information beyond suspicions? They couldn't unless they went out themselves and you think everyone is just going to leave their trade tables up when the cops show up, even if Corvus allowed them to dock or whatever? ha!

I have some more thoughts, but we're headed out the door right now.

In essence, grey was meant as a bazaar for weapons anyways. Making ship widgets and consignment are ways to allow players to have an influence on the free market out there.

[EDIT: More thoughts]
So, here's the thing, the nation would *know* who's selling what where if there's a specific deal made between the player and the nation station. Basically, if there's demand for a trader to move gear from one nation station to another, then the nation would *know* when the order just fell off the back of the truck. Losses like this result in faction loss.

Basically, if you're going to buy a ship *widget* that's restricted (X1, SCP, etc), then it *has* to go to another nation station for sale. That way, ship sales occur normally and traders can have a new widget to move around according to price fluctuations.

On the other hand, if the trader dies while filling the order, there is a reduced faction loss (you idiot! take more escorts! we're taking away 500 faction if you don't recover the cargo in 12 hours), but not as severe as the "Hey, where's the 20 X1s?" variety (900+ faction, say).

Incidentally, if someone really wanted to tank their standing and "steal" hardware at the same time, this would be a great way to do it in game.

Now, what this provides for is enemy groups or pirates from swooping in and stealing the goods and then supplying the black market or driving up prices at the front line. It also makes flying with escorts *really really* important for a trader if they choose to move ship widgets of this type. So, there's still a way to supply the black market (via piracy, duh!) while retaining the ability to move widgets around in nation space with consequences for the people who just think they can up and steal military hardware.

You know, the ships are made *somewhere* and must be moved *somewhere else* to be available at all these stations.

Blasphemy! Everything is magically transported from station to station, for the same reason that a station has an infinite supply of everything it sells