Forums » Suggestions
I figure we can use this thread for feedback and suggestions regarding the new multi-player turret ships, as incarnate suggested.
I actually think they are fairly well implemented. I wasn't having the trouble that some other players were having with aiming.
I think the turret weapons should perhaps be swappable. Maybe there should be a new class of weapons. Large port, small port, and now turret port. Instead of the turrets just having neuts, you can buy turret guass, turret missiles, turret neuts, etc... These would have mass, so when loaded, it would weigh you down a bit, but they shouldn't be heavy. They should be fairly light since most of the hardware of the turret itself is built into the ship.
Gunners can currently continue firing as their ship jumps. I like this. I don't think it should be "fixed".
However, you should definitely fix the text that says "You are entering player_name". Make it say that you are entering their ship...
We did a bunch of trials testing the effectiveness of a moth with 3 gunners against a chaser. We quickly reached the conclusion that if you have 1, 2, or 3 extra pilots at your disposal, they are more useful assigned as escorts in their own ships as opposed to manning turrets. We also did testing on the atlas with a gunner against a few standard PvP ships. The atlas didn't do very well. Again, assigning the extra pilot to his or her own ship would be more useful. This makes me question when you would ever want to put an extra player in a turret as opposed to in another ship... Right now, the infinite energy makes the atlas useful in a chase, so it'll be a decent pirate setup.
Even though the turrets seem to not add any extreme advantage over having extra players in their own ships (except perhaps for chasing/pirating), I do believe that that each turret should have a power cell. They shouldn't be able to fire forever. Each turret should have a built-in FC or heavy cell that is independent from the main ship power cell. I know this may seem like nerfing something that is not overpowered, but it just seems to make more sense for them to have power restrictions. This would nerf the atlas' pirating potential only slightly, because the turret would still have power independent from the engines, so it will still be able to excel in the chase role, turboing indefinitely while firing on and off.
Slightly off-topic:
Playing around with these setups and scenarios today really was fun and made me think that there is a huge potential for multi-player ship functionality in the future. I think other functionality could be opened up when you have a "crew" onboard. A "crew ship", whether it be a regular ship or a cap ship, can maybe have some other functionality other than turrets. For instance, an extra crew member could coordinate and relay target information to a group, etc... There should also be stuff for the non-pilot crew members to do when not engaged in combat. Also, maybe you can assign a crew member as an "engineer", especially in cap ships. They could work to repair armor damage, etc... Maybe in cap ships, there could be different levels of weapon. With just a pilot, the ship's functionality is limited to essential basics. With 1 extra crew member, maybe that opens up a guass turret. 2 crew members would open up a missile turret. 3 crew members would open up a beam turret. 4 crew members would give you the ability to assign one of them as an engineer to assist with repairing damage in-flight. This would provide additional incentives for players to work together to open up other capabilities. There are a lot of possibilities that entered my mind today while playing around.
I actually think they are fairly well implemented. I wasn't having the trouble that some other players were having with aiming.
I think the turret weapons should perhaps be swappable. Maybe there should be a new class of weapons. Large port, small port, and now turret port. Instead of the turrets just having neuts, you can buy turret guass, turret missiles, turret neuts, etc... These would have mass, so when loaded, it would weigh you down a bit, but they shouldn't be heavy. They should be fairly light since most of the hardware of the turret itself is built into the ship.
Gunners can currently continue firing as their ship jumps. I like this. I don't think it should be "fixed".
However, you should definitely fix the text that says "You are entering player_name". Make it say that you are entering their ship...
We did a bunch of trials testing the effectiveness of a moth with 3 gunners against a chaser. We quickly reached the conclusion that if you have 1, 2, or 3 extra pilots at your disposal, they are more useful assigned as escorts in their own ships as opposed to manning turrets. We also did testing on the atlas with a gunner against a few standard PvP ships. The atlas didn't do very well. Again, assigning the extra pilot to his or her own ship would be more useful. This makes me question when you would ever want to put an extra player in a turret as opposed to in another ship... Right now, the infinite energy makes the atlas useful in a chase, so it'll be a decent pirate setup.
Even though the turrets seem to not add any extreme advantage over having extra players in their own ships (except perhaps for chasing/pirating), I do believe that that each turret should have a power cell. They shouldn't be able to fire forever. Each turret should have a built-in FC or heavy cell that is independent from the main ship power cell. I know this may seem like nerfing something that is not overpowered, but it just seems to make more sense for them to have power restrictions. This would nerf the atlas' pirating potential only slightly, because the turret would still have power independent from the engines, so it will still be able to excel in the chase role, turboing indefinitely while firing on and off.
Slightly off-topic:
Playing around with these setups and scenarios today really was fun and made me think that there is a huge potential for multi-player ship functionality in the future. I think other functionality could be opened up when you have a "crew" onboard. A "crew ship", whether it be a regular ship or a cap ship, can maybe have some other functionality other than turrets. For instance, an extra crew member could coordinate and relay target information to a group, etc... There should also be stuff for the non-pilot crew members to do when not engaged in combat. Also, maybe you can assign a crew member as an "engineer", especially in cap ships. They could work to repair armor damage, etc... Maybe in cap ships, there could be different levels of weapon. With just a pilot, the ship's functionality is limited to essential basics. With 1 extra crew member, maybe that opens up a guass turret. 2 crew members would open up a missile turret. 3 crew members would open up a beam turret. 4 crew members would give you the ability to assign one of them as an engineer to assist with repairing damage in-flight. This would provide additional incentives for players to work together to open up other capabilities. There are a lot of possibilities that entered my mind today while playing around.
I kind of like the ability to fire while jumping. With all the inherent disadvantages right now, it offers one distinct advantage. I'm sure turrets will become more effective once other kinds of weapons are allowed as well.
My suggestion at this point would be to make one or two different variants of these ships with the turrets in different locations. That way instead of finding locations people all agree on, the player can pick a layout suited to his purpose. Rear turret for trading, front/top or front/bottom for pirating or pursuit, starboard or port or even rear for group combat.
And let's put a turret or two on the hornet!
And yes, the "You are entering (player)" needs to go. Think of the children!
My suggestion at this point would be to make one or two different variants of these ships with the turrets in different locations. That way instead of finding locations people all agree on, the player can pick a layout suited to his purpose. Rear turret for trading, front/top or front/bottom for pirating or pursuit, starboard or port or even rear for group combat.
And let's put a turret or two on the hornet!
And yes, the "You are entering (player)" needs to go. Think of the children!
Agreed about keeping the "turret fires during jump"--it's a good reason to take a tail gunner with you and balances the fact that ships are open for assrapage when jumping (as well they should be).
As for "You are entering [player]," I guess it can go. But only if you get that same message every time you successfully quad ADV rail someone. That's definitly "entering" another player.
As for "You are entering [player]," I guess it can go. But only if you get that same message every time you successfully quad ADV rail someone. That's definitly "entering" another player.
For the energy, could the ship have two power cells, with the turrets taking energy and extra grid. But that would force us into making specifically multiplayer ships. Don't know if that is a bad thing.
Turrets on normal ships should drain their power from the power cell like anything else. Agree that a separate grid should be implemented to accomodate the turrets.
Well done, a very welcome first implementation of multi player ships.
I would generally agree with the above comments. Certainly the turret wep needs to have some energy limitation , either by being part of the grid system of the main PC , or from its own PC and grid.
I also think that eventually the turreted versions of ships should be a new varient of ship class , with adjustments to mass , armour , capacity and so on.
At present, killing a multiplayer ship only gives one player kill. I think it should include the entire crew.
I would generally agree with the above comments. Certainly the turret wep needs to have some energy limitation , either by being part of the grid system of the main PC , or from its own PC and grid.
I also think that eventually the turreted versions of ships should be a new varient of ship class , with adjustments to mass , armour , capacity and so on.
At present, killing a multiplayer ship only gives one player kill. I think it should include the entire crew.
Fantastic update, it persuaded me to manage to come back online.
As for a suggestion, perhaps a 'Crew Chat' might be implemented when gunners are on your ship, instead of the Ship Com that is only accessible when not in a turret.
Also, some thought should be given to faction loss as a result of sabotage on the part of a gunner, where his shots hit someone which would, of course, cause the pilot rather than the gunner to lose faction. Just a warning, before it accidentally happens to someone (which is inevitable).
Also, an idea for having different weapons in a turret could work as follows:
An additional port would be named the 'turret port', so when a unique ship or variant is designed for having gunners, like a 'Turret Atlas', its ports would be listed as 1S, 1L, and 1T (for turret). Then, a "Turret Weapons" section might exist where the pilot can select which turrets possess which weapons, like 'Turret Neutron Blasters' or 'Turret Gauss Cannons'.
That's enough, I suppose.
As for a suggestion, perhaps a 'Crew Chat' might be implemented when gunners are on your ship, instead of the Ship Com that is only accessible when not in a turret.
Also, some thought should be given to faction loss as a result of sabotage on the part of a gunner, where his shots hit someone which would, of course, cause the pilot rather than the gunner to lose faction. Just a warning, before it accidentally happens to someone (which is inevitable).
Also, an idea for having different weapons in a turret could work as follows:
An additional port would be named the 'turret port', so when a unique ship or variant is designed for having gunners, like a 'Turret Atlas', its ports would be listed as 1S, 1L, and 1T (for turret). Then, a "Turret Weapons" section might exist where the pilot can select which turrets possess which weapons, like 'Turret Neutron Blasters' or 'Turret Gauss Cannons'.
That's enough, I suppose.
When the devs have the time, it would be nice to have a centaur with a turret on top near the front and one on the bottom near the back. Also aiming in the turrets seems a little jerky
The turret weapons should be the same as ordinary ones, with some limits. Obviously, things like Gatling turrets wouldn't work. You can't have a Gatling turret turret. That would be cheap. Here are the weapons I think would be interesting:
Gatling Cannon. (We need a use for it!)
Firefly or Yellow Jacket missiles
All energy weapons, including railguns and flechette cannons
Gauss Cannons
Flare rockets, maybe. (Very iffy)
Repair cannons (HELL YES!)
Rail turrets would be very intriguing to me. I like that idea.
We did a bunch of trials testing the effectiveness of a moth with 3 gunners against a chaser. We quickly reached the conclusion that if you have 1, 2, or 3 extra pilots at your disposal, they are more useful assigned as escorts in their own ships as opposed to manning turrets.setup.
If a pilot isn't all that good with their own ship, or only using one ship is feasible, then turrets are useful. Note that right now, turrets are invisible, and some pilots won't use them in most cases. They would be VERY good surprise weapons.
In naval warfare, if you have a cargo ship that is generally unarmed, and you arm it, the enemy is caught off guard. Think about that.
Gatling Cannon. (We need a use for it!)
Firefly or Yellow Jacket missiles
All energy weapons, including railguns and flechette cannons
Gauss Cannons
Flare rockets, maybe. (Very iffy)
Repair cannons (HELL YES!)
Rail turrets would be very intriguing to me. I like that idea.
We did a bunch of trials testing the effectiveness of a moth with 3 gunners against a chaser. We quickly reached the conclusion that if you have 1, 2, or 3 extra pilots at your disposal, they are more useful assigned as escorts in their own ships as opposed to manning turrets.setup.
If a pilot isn't all that good with their own ship, or only using one ship is feasible, then turrets are useful. Note that right now, turrets are invisible, and some pilots won't use them in most cases. They would be VERY good surprise weapons.
In naval warfare, if you have a cargo ship that is generally unarmed, and you arm it, the enemy is caught off guard. Think about that.
I see your point, ingoguy15. However, I suggest that the devs make some missions and/or gameplay avenues that allow only a single ship to participate. Make some sort of mission or adventure thingy that somehow prohibits more than 1 ship from participating. Make this mission/task extremely difficult for a single ship with a single pilot to complete so that a ship loaded with a gunner or multiple gunners would have a huge advantage. I can think of a few ideas that would make this work, and I think it would give multi-player ships a stronger purpose.
I actually think the gat turrets should be just that turrets and no longer availabe to be used as a weapon with suburb auto aim
I actually think the gat turrets should be just that turrets and no longer availabe to be used as a weapon with suburb auto aim
Let's make that one its own suggestion... otherwise this thread is gonna be derailed fast.
Let's make that one its own suggestion... otherwise this thread is gonna be derailed fast.
I agree to the wisdom of my elders, especially the venerable Ecka when he says brainy stuff like:
At present, killing a multiplayer ship only gives one player kill. I think it should include the entire crew.
Hell yes:). A separate counter for killing two-player ships would be very nice
At present, killing a multiplayer ship only gives one player kill. I think it should include the entire crew.
Hell yes:). A separate counter for killing two-player ships would be very nice
Some bugs:
-There seems to be no Auto-Aim with the turrets, from my experience.
-No destroyable turrets. (except destroying the ship)
-Hindered range with turret weapons. (i.e. I can shoot farther than the turrets shooting at me while the ship I am pursuing runs.)
-Turret deaths should count. (I know it's a known issue, just repeating.)
-Turret weapon fire can hit its own ship. (I've seen the tail cannons on a leviathan shoot straight through itself and still hit me, I say either allow that for turret ships or at least widen the firing view of the turrets.)
Some suggestions:
-Allow the player to look in any direction and not limit them to the just the turret firing view limitations. (Show a distinct line marking the turret firing view.)
-Make specific ships with a distinct variant name and specifications to note the addition of turrets. (i.e. More armor, more weight, less cargo space, price, requirements, name, and maybe more speed.)
-Seamless turret switching, for example, if I were the only gunner in a behemoth, I can simple aim my view to a new direction that rests in a turret firing view, that turret becomes active. However, if there are multiple people, then I can't "force" another player out of a turret.
-Multiple turret weapons, i.e. rockets, rails, AGT, swarms, and mines. Of course the ammo based weapons would still be ammo based and possibly have larger ammo capacities than their counterparts. Note that each type of turret weapon carries its own specifications so there would be balancing in mass, damage, ammo, price, and requirements.
-Each turret should rely on its own battery.
-... not sure what else to suggest, oh, maybe shields.
-There seems to be no Auto-Aim with the turrets, from my experience.
-No destroyable turrets. (except destroying the ship)
-Hindered range with turret weapons. (i.e. I can shoot farther than the turrets shooting at me while the ship I am pursuing runs.)
-Turret deaths should count. (I know it's a known issue, just repeating.)
-Turret weapon fire can hit its own ship. (I've seen the tail cannons on a leviathan shoot straight through itself and still hit me, I say either allow that for turret ships or at least widen the firing view of the turrets.)
Some suggestions:
-Allow the player to look in any direction and not limit them to the just the turret firing view limitations. (Show a distinct line marking the turret firing view.)
-Make specific ships with a distinct variant name and specifications to note the addition of turrets. (i.e. More armor, more weight, less cargo space, price, requirements, name, and maybe more speed.)
-Seamless turret switching, for example, if I were the only gunner in a behemoth, I can simple aim my view to a new direction that rests in a turret firing view, that turret becomes active. However, if there are multiple people, then I can't "force" another player out of a turret.
-Multiple turret weapons, i.e. rockets, rails, AGT, swarms, and mines. Of course the ammo based weapons would still be ammo based and possibly have larger ammo capacities than their counterparts. Note that each type of turret weapon carries its own specifications so there would be balancing in mass, damage, ammo, price, and requirements.
-Each turret should rely on its own battery.
-... not sure what else to suggest, oh, maybe shields.
Yes, different weapons are a must in order to make 2 player in one ship more viable than 2 players in 2 separate ships. There needs to be a reason to use the turret.
On a side note, the first "taxi" service of Vendetta has been unintentionally created...
On a side note, the first "taxi" service of Vendetta has been unintentionally created...
There is auto-aim on the turrets but the indicator on the HUD is broken.
-Seamless turret switching, for example, if I were the only gunner in a behemoth, I can simple aim my view to a new direction that rests in a turret firing view, that turret becomes active. However, if there are multiple people, then I can't "force" another player out of a turret.
Another way to implement this is hotkeys used for switching turrets. Basically you press a binded key and it switches forward or backward in the line of available turrets.
Another way to implement this is hotkeys used for switching turrets. Basically you press a binded key and it switches forward or backward in the line of available turrets.
Another way to implement this is hotkeys used for switching turrets. Basically you press a binded key and it switches forward or backward in the line of available turrets.
YES. Been wanting this for a long time. It's a pretty horrid interface to have to go to a menu to switch the turret you want to be in. It would be wonderful if possible to, as the ship you are targeting goes out of range of your turret and into the range of another, that you can switch to that turret with a button-press (if no one is currently occupying that turret).
YES. Been wanting this for a long time. It's a pretty horrid interface to have to go to a menu to switch the turret you want to be in. It would be wonderful if possible to, as the ship you are targeting goes out of range of your turret and into the range of another, that you can switch to that turret with a button-press (if no one is currently occupying that turret).
So I begged enough Saturday to get into an Atlas turret a couple times. Item One: I love it. One person who picked me up did some spice run mission that I haven't seen myself yet. As we circled the universe, I watched out the back, free to concentrate on keeping an eye out for pirates (we met none), sorting out what was going on with the [SPOILER OMITTED ;] and scaring ion storm bots. That last turns out to be fun, effective, and really useful for the pilot who can then just concentrate on getting out and not plastering the ship across an asteriod.
[EDIT: this one is fixed in 1.8.72.]
Item Two: as mentioned on the forums when the NFZ's were new, if the game's going to YELL AT PEOPLE for shooting into empty space, it's really got to politely mention it before hand. The existing red NFZ hud item for pilots would work fine for gunners too, AFAIK.
Item Three: Being in station makes me feel sensory deprivation. I don't have any of my PDA! In flight is fine since there's some PDA available there.
Item Four. This is the actual important one, to me. We tried botting in a sector with some collectors, and the biggest thing I needed was a clear indicator of where my view range was.
The reason is this: the normal closest enemy binds and such are pretty useless because they tend to select whatever the pilot is concentrating on and the rear-facing gunner can't hit any of that. So I picked targets by finding something near or headed into the center of my view range, hoping it would stay in range long enough to repay the time investment of targetting it. With the current setup, I had to watch the green radar dots for myself and the pilot in my rear radar while actually re-aiming to center and then looking at the front radar to pick a target. Yeah, you can find your center by watching your own dot on the radar. I'm thinking it would work to have the un-aimable part of the radar greyed out a bit more. (Hrm, do I mean more transparent, or with a white wash over it, or what?)
So all in all? I shall have to harrass the universe into letting me ride gunner again some time!
[EDIT: this one is fixed in 1.8.72.]
Item Two: as mentioned on the forums when the NFZ's were new, if the game's going to YELL AT PEOPLE for shooting into empty space, it's really got to politely mention it before hand. The existing red NFZ hud item for pilots would work fine for gunners too, AFAIK.
Item Three: Being in station makes me feel sensory deprivation. I don't have any of my PDA! In flight is fine since there's some PDA available there.
Item Four. This is the actual important one, to me. We tried botting in a sector with some collectors, and the biggest thing I needed was a clear indicator of where my view range was.
The reason is this: the normal closest enemy binds and such are pretty useless because they tend to select whatever the pilot is concentrating on and the rear-facing gunner can't hit any of that. So I picked targets by finding something near or headed into the center of my view range, hoping it would stay in range long enough to repay the time investment of targetting it. With the current setup, I had to watch the green radar dots for myself and the pilot in my rear radar while actually re-aiming to center and then looking at the front radar to pick a target. Yeah, you can find your center by watching your own dot on the radar. I'm thinking it would work to have the un-aimable part of the radar greyed out a bit more. (Hrm, do I mean more transparent, or with a white wash over it, or what?)
So all in all? I shall have to harrass the universe into letting me ride gunner again some time!
So it seems we all agree that two pilots in two different ships are > two pilots in the same ship. So why put someone in the same ship?
Solutions:
-Better turrets, gauss or dare I say gat turrets.
-Increased range of motion for turret
-Some sort of AI assistance in aiming the turret, like increased auto aim, considering you don't have the luxury of lining up the shot yourself.
-Make a ship specially designed and balanced for player turrets. IE) it sucks when flown without people in the turrets, but deadly when fully manned. Something like a destroyer.
My reasoning behind this is that 2 players in the same ship should be more powerful than one player alone. Therefore, unless the attacker is more skilled than his opponents, taking on a ship with a gunner should require 2 attackers.
Solutions:
-Better turrets, gauss or dare I say gat turrets.
-Increased range of motion for turret
-Some sort of AI assistance in aiming the turret, like increased auto aim, considering you don't have the luxury of lining up the shot yourself.
-Make a ship specially designed and balanced for player turrets. IE) it sucks when flown without people in the turrets, but deadly when fully manned. Something like a destroyer.
My reasoning behind this is that 2 players in the same ship should be more powerful than one player alone. Therefore, unless the attacker is more skilled than his opponents, taking on a ship with a gunner should require 2 attackers.