Forums » Suggestions
Please bear with me, it's 4am, I've been working all day/night and am pretty tired. This is an idea that came to me just now, while updating our asteroids (the bumpy "bone" asteroids. FYI, there's gonna be a real big update download in the next week or two.. I'm upping their max texture resolution..).
So anyway, the concept is this: Areas containing asteroid fields which have been heavily mined give off a green xithricite "fog" (I've talked about using this, elsewhere). These fogged sectors would follow the same basic rules as our current Ion Storms (limited visual range, limited radar range, extender becoming useful). Locations with this sort of fogged asteroid field may not be crossed with a jump.. (enter favorite pseudo-science explanation here.. irrelevant for now). You can go around them, with a larger number of jumps, or you can cross them, requiring you to jump in at a particular fixed entry point, and make your way under normal power to a particular fixed exit point (entry/exit unified for all NPCs/players). At that point, you can plot another jump. If you're in the "middle" of a bunch of xith-fogged sectors, you can only go jump to the adjacent sector in any direction, proceed through it the same way, and so on. If you're on the "outside edge" of a fogged region, jumping behaves as it does now.
If you attempt to jump "across" a xith-fogged region of asteroids, you're simply dropped in at the "entry" point for the nearest fogged sector on your plotted course. You can then jump back "out" again and go around if you choose.
The arrangement of these xith-fogged asteroid sectors would basically follow our current system design. Clusters here and there, mostly in partial "ring" formations, but some might form total "rings" around the central star.. requiring one to pass through them to reach a station that is nearer to the center of a system. Others might simply have "blobs" of asteroids around stations, requiring similar passage. I imagine most stations would not require this, I'm just saying that a few could, here and there. We have like 135 stations or some such, so if like 25 or so outlying/mining stations required fogged-sector traversal, that might be "interesting" without being "really annoying".
I would imagine that, for the most part, people could traverse a sector from wormhole to wormhole (thus traversing multiple systems) without having to spend time going through fogged sectors. Some exceptions might apply. Some interesting exceptions might apply in grayspace, near major wormholes, which would then become hotpoints for piracy (hunting in radar-extended Raptors, anyone?).
This could potentially replace Ion Storms entirely. Of course, we could keep them around, just in very light density, to throw a little uncertainty into the mix now and then. Also, all asteroid fields would not be fogged.. just some of them. I'm not sure how many.. maybe half? The idea being, a lot of the resources of the "universe" that are near the major nations and "central worlds" have been heavily exploited over the years, and this is the sort of fallout that's left behind. Some fields might be more heavily fogged than others (different visual distances and radar impacts).
To make an analogy, which may be meaningless to anyone other than me.. it becomes sort of like navigating reefs. As has been occasionally noted in the press, I was raised on a sailboat and thus have a tendency towards nautical metaphors (and ultimately made a nautical game, albeit in space). These reef regions can be passed through, potentially with some risk and maybe a need for good navigational data, or it's possible to go around them and avoid them entirely. However, some ports are surrounded by reefs, and require anyone wishing to visit/trade at that location to brave passage through the dangerous shoals. In the real world, things like the time of day have a major impact, since one's ability to perceive coral heads underwater is greatly improved with the sun behind you, and nearly negated entirely with the sun ahead of you. Additionally, the tides cause some regions to be much more dangerous or impassable at low water (depending on the vessel's draft), but improve at high water. In my youth I actually experienced situations where our vessel was effectively trapped in a given harbor, when we wanted to leave (due to nearby scary/dangerous/illegal activity).
These are all, of course, nautical analogues, but could also have some bearing on the game. These xith clouds could essentially take the place of the ion-storm "weather", being modulated with time and other factors. Not unlike the sort of "smog report" people get in places like Los Angeles and.. well.. Beijing, we could have a "fog density report" for different regions and so on. Maybe some places could totally clear up on occasion and you could jump right across without manual traversal. This weather modulation timing could be unique per system, or per greater region, and scheduled to avoid excessively impacting any one given timeframe (or players in any particular timezone) to keep things fair.. some areas are more open, some more closed, constant flux.
What is the Point? If this isn't apparent by now, the purpose is to generate need to traverse areas of dense, fogged asteroid fields, generating tense gameplay with the possibility of danger. Additionally, it gets rid of most, if not all, of the "Annoying Damned Ion Storm" factor. All fogged regions would be displayed on the map.. potentially all the time (although, that could be another factor.. having up-to-date weather. Perhaps you need good standing with the local faction to decrypt their weather reports?). The biggest caveat would be to make it not so excessive that we spend all our time boringly flying through green-fogged sectors trying to get to some faraway Event, or whatever. I think that's feasible, given the ability to jump around these regions 90% of the time. Those times when it would not be possible to jump around.. well, those would be specific stations or grayspace wormholes. In the latter case "Abandon Hope All Ye Who Enter Here".
Anyway, that's the broad strokes, feedback is welcome. Thanks.
So anyway, the concept is this: Areas containing asteroid fields which have been heavily mined give off a green xithricite "fog" (I've talked about using this, elsewhere). These fogged sectors would follow the same basic rules as our current Ion Storms (limited visual range, limited radar range, extender becoming useful). Locations with this sort of fogged asteroid field may not be crossed with a jump.. (enter favorite pseudo-science explanation here.. irrelevant for now). You can go around them, with a larger number of jumps, or you can cross them, requiring you to jump in at a particular fixed entry point, and make your way under normal power to a particular fixed exit point (entry/exit unified for all NPCs/players). At that point, you can plot another jump. If you're in the "middle" of a bunch of xith-fogged sectors, you can only go jump to the adjacent sector in any direction, proceed through it the same way, and so on. If you're on the "outside edge" of a fogged region, jumping behaves as it does now.
If you attempt to jump "across" a xith-fogged region of asteroids, you're simply dropped in at the "entry" point for the nearest fogged sector on your plotted course. You can then jump back "out" again and go around if you choose.
The arrangement of these xith-fogged asteroid sectors would basically follow our current system design. Clusters here and there, mostly in partial "ring" formations, but some might form total "rings" around the central star.. requiring one to pass through them to reach a station that is nearer to the center of a system. Others might simply have "blobs" of asteroids around stations, requiring similar passage. I imagine most stations would not require this, I'm just saying that a few could, here and there. We have like 135 stations or some such, so if like 25 or so outlying/mining stations required fogged-sector traversal, that might be "interesting" without being "really annoying".
I would imagine that, for the most part, people could traverse a sector from wormhole to wormhole (thus traversing multiple systems) without having to spend time going through fogged sectors. Some exceptions might apply. Some interesting exceptions might apply in grayspace, near major wormholes, which would then become hotpoints for piracy (hunting in radar-extended Raptors, anyone?).
This could potentially replace Ion Storms entirely. Of course, we could keep them around, just in very light density, to throw a little uncertainty into the mix now and then. Also, all asteroid fields would not be fogged.. just some of them. I'm not sure how many.. maybe half? The idea being, a lot of the resources of the "universe" that are near the major nations and "central worlds" have been heavily exploited over the years, and this is the sort of fallout that's left behind. Some fields might be more heavily fogged than others (different visual distances and radar impacts).
To make an analogy, which may be meaningless to anyone other than me.. it becomes sort of like navigating reefs. As has been occasionally noted in the press, I was raised on a sailboat and thus have a tendency towards nautical metaphors (and ultimately made a nautical game, albeit in space). These reef regions can be passed through, potentially with some risk and maybe a need for good navigational data, or it's possible to go around them and avoid them entirely. However, some ports are surrounded by reefs, and require anyone wishing to visit/trade at that location to brave passage through the dangerous shoals. In the real world, things like the time of day have a major impact, since one's ability to perceive coral heads underwater is greatly improved with the sun behind you, and nearly negated entirely with the sun ahead of you. Additionally, the tides cause some regions to be much more dangerous or impassable at low water (depending on the vessel's draft), but improve at high water. In my youth I actually experienced situations where our vessel was effectively trapped in a given harbor, when we wanted to leave (due to nearby scary/dangerous/illegal activity).
These are all, of course, nautical analogues, but could also have some bearing on the game. These xith clouds could essentially take the place of the ion-storm "weather", being modulated with time and other factors. Not unlike the sort of "smog report" people get in places like Los Angeles and.. well.. Beijing, we could have a "fog density report" for different regions and so on. Maybe some places could totally clear up on occasion and you could jump right across without manual traversal. This weather modulation timing could be unique per system, or per greater region, and scheduled to avoid excessively impacting any one given timeframe (or players in any particular timezone) to keep things fair.. some areas are more open, some more closed, constant flux.
What is the Point? If this isn't apparent by now, the purpose is to generate need to traverse areas of dense, fogged asteroid fields, generating tense gameplay with the possibility of danger. Additionally, it gets rid of most, if not all, of the "Annoying Damned Ion Storm" factor. All fogged regions would be displayed on the map.. potentially all the time (although, that could be another factor.. having up-to-date weather. Perhaps you need good standing with the local faction to decrypt their weather reports?). The biggest caveat would be to make it not so excessive that we spend all our time boringly flying through green-fogged sectors trying to get to some faraway Event, or whatever. I think that's feasible, given the ability to jump around these regions 90% of the time. Those times when it would not be possible to jump around.. well, those would be specific stations or grayspace wormholes. In the latter case "Abandon Hope All Ye Who Enter Here".
Anyway, that's the broad strokes, feedback is welcome. Thanks.
This is very good. Get rid of ion storms.
All good!
Make it so
Sorry, I can't agree to any changes other than trade system fixed at the present time. It is currently in a very broken state with no roadmap. Lets fix trading before we break something else.
Sounds cool, but perhaps instead of just getting rid of ion storms entirely, just make them... I dunno, rarer?
It'd be nice to have more than one type (read: color) of fog. Right now they're all blue, this would just change them to all green and make it occur in more or less fixed areas of space. Why not have the occasional (once or twice weekly in any given system) "large" ion storm that covers an area that might be roughly 3x3 or 4x4 sectors in area.
It'd be nice to have more than one type (read: color) of fog. Right now they're all blue, this would just change them to all green and make it occur in more or less fixed areas of space. Why not have the occasional (once or twice weekly in any given system) "large" ion storm that covers an area that might be roughly 3x3 or 4x4 sectors in area.
yays. Stuff that makes grey more dangerous is good! Getting rid of empty ion storms is good!
And then the stuff Blacknet talks about too please. Make Grey interesting for traders. I know it has been said before many times, doesn't make it less so.
And then the stuff Blacknet talks about too please. Make Grey interesting for traders. I know it has been said before many times, doesn't make it less so.
I like fighting/hunting in ion storms back in bp ^^ not many shared this though :(. But I like the idea of fog hunting, but as for using raptors for doing it...well...not the most combat able ship
Excellent idea tbh. I would agree that getting rid of ion storms is meh... how about just less often? As someone else mentioned, Needs moar fog colors!
I like it. I think keeping ion storms but making them rare (randomly, and no more than 1x/day) would be cool. Maybe the xith cloud could be variations of green?
I don't think Inc was saying this was something that would necessarily happen before trade fixes - he just had an idea and wanted to "put it out there".
I don't think Inc was saying this was something that would necessarily happen before trade fixes - he just had an idea and wanted to "put it out there".
For those far-off mining stations surrounded by xith cloud sectors, you should make the stations themselves be in a xith cloud. That would be awesome.
Me likes. Maybe. I suppose it depends on actual implementation.
Anything to make the Raptor actually useful is a bonus.
Anything to make the Raptor actually useful is a bonus.
I like. Comments below.
Perhaps tie the likelihood of xith clouds and/or ion storms (which should be kept) in a sector to traffic through that sector (i.e., the more traffic, both PC and NPC, through a sector, the higher the chance of a cloud/storm). Common routes slowly become more dangerous (assuming pirates see these clouds/storms as opportunities) and thereby making active navigation necessary.
To make clouds/storms more pirate/ambush friendly how about nullifying the Sector List in them unless a ship has a radar extender? Also make cloud/storm sectors unmonitored (if they aren't already, I don't remember).
If active plotting is going to become more common, would really like to be able to add/delete waypoints to/from existing plotted courses. Something like: click-drag on a line between exiting waypoints to add a new waypoint, double-click on an existing waypoint to delete it. Would be nice but not a priority.
Speaking of ion storms, can they be made more "stormy" (random perturbations of heading) so that pilots have to actively correct course to exit them instead of just turboing straight through while reading their mail (except for the occasional asteroidal intersection)? This might be fun or at least less boring (as opposed to annoying) with the decreased frequency of ion storms.
If the Raptor isn't a fighter and isn't a bomber it might be an interceptor/escort in which case it needs longer legs and more speed to be at all effective in either role (otherwise just put a radar extender in a 'hog/Hornet MkII). The Raptor wants some of that luvin' too.
Perhaps tie the likelihood of xith clouds and/or ion storms (which should be kept) in a sector to traffic through that sector (i.e., the more traffic, both PC and NPC, through a sector, the higher the chance of a cloud/storm). Common routes slowly become more dangerous (assuming pirates see these clouds/storms as opportunities) and thereby making active navigation necessary.
To make clouds/storms more pirate/ambush friendly how about nullifying the Sector List in them unless a ship has a radar extender? Also make cloud/storm sectors unmonitored (if they aren't already, I don't remember).
If active plotting is going to become more common, would really like to be able to add/delete waypoints to/from existing plotted courses. Something like: click-drag on a line between exiting waypoints to add a new waypoint, double-click on an existing waypoint to delete it. Would be nice but not a priority.
Speaking of ion storms, can they be made more "stormy" (random perturbations of heading) so that pilots have to actively correct course to exit them instead of just turboing straight through while reading their mail (except for the occasional asteroidal intersection)? This might be fun or at least less boring (as opposed to annoying) with the decreased frequency of ion storms.
If the Raptor isn't a fighter and isn't a bomber it might be an interceptor/escort in which case it needs longer legs and more speed to be at all effective in either role (otherwise just put a radar extender in a 'hog/Hornet MkII). The Raptor wants some of that luvin' too.
Perhaps it should not be random. In the way that a miner heats a roid, he could also create smog. For every unit of heat he creates in a roid, he creates a unit of smog in that sector. in the way that a roid dissipates heat over time, a sector would dissipate smog over time.
The fog should be based on the type of asteroids in the sector possibly even linked to which asteroids were / are being mined. Xith type rocks getting mined adds green tint to the fog. Ferric adds a grayish tint, Pentric yellowish etc. Since that would make updating troubles the fog could be updated whenever so many jumps are made across the sector.
The mining "dust" in a sector doesn't fog up so long as not too many people stir it up by jumping across the sector, jumping into the sector wouldn't stir it up. Though I suppose that would also allow people to lay fog traps in awkward places by mining then jumping back and forth to stir it up. Could be good could be bad not too sure right now.
The mining "dust" in a sector doesn't fog up so long as not too many people stir it up by jumping across the sector, jumping into the sector wouldn't stir it up. Though I suppose that would also allow people to lay fog traps in awkward places by mining then jumping back and forth to stir it up. Could be good could be bad not too sure right now.
I say that you should buy some beer, prop your feet up, and just play around with it, Incarnate.
It could update when sectors go "online". :P
I have to agree with blacknet on this one, at least partially.
The idea is cool and I like it, but there are other areas of the game that need improvement before replacing ion storms.
Maybe just add this enhancement to the end of the backlog (SCRUM reference) and get on with the rest?
The idea is cool and I like it, but there are other areas of the game that need improvement before replacing ion storms.
Maybe just add this enhancement to the end of the backlog (SCRUM reference) and get on with the rest?
I'm all for removing/cutting down ion storms. That being said, I really don't think it would make grey any more dangerous. Pirates will still camp wormholes as they're still the most effective choke point. Even if they camp the new areas, it's not really making grey more dangerous so much as moving the current danger to another location. Anywho, I do like the idea though as Ion Storms serve little to no purpose at the moment. May as well make them stationary.
Vardonx/blacknet, I posted the Removal of Friendly Fire RFC in April of 2007, and *that* ain't ready yet. You could go back even further for some of my posted RFCs for changing the flight model, turbo usage, etc.
The fact that I post something does not mean it's happening next week. It means I had a bleary-eyed idea at 4am and wanted to get some general feedback on it.
Also, if people seem to think the 'trade system' is so horribly broken, why is it that the only related posts on the top 2 pages of the Suggestions forum are: Blacknet wishing for more station cargo space (which does not seem very universal), and Daare's suggestion of more information for the "Sell Selected" button (which will be showing up in this week's release). Usually if something is "very broken" there is a very loud noise being made in a related thread on here. So please, if you think there are other priorities, go post about them in the relevant threads. Please don't clutter up my RFCs with criticisms about how they shouldn't happen immediately.. after all, none of them ever have (and usually this fact is a point of critique from you guys).
The fact that I post something does not mean it's happening next week. It means I had a bleary-eyed idea at 4am and wanted to get some general feedback on it.
Also, if people seem to think the 'trade system' is so horribly broken, why is it that the only related posts on the top 2 pages of the Suggestions forum are: Blacknet wishing for more station cargo space (which does not seem very universal), and Daare's suggestion of more information for the "Sell Selected" button (which will be showing up in this week's release). Usually if something is "very broken" there is a very loud noise being made in a related thread on here. So please, if you think there are other priorities, go post about them in the relevant threads. Please don't clutter up my RFCs with criticisms about how they shouldn't happen immediately.. after all, none of them ever have (and usually this fact is a point of critique from you guys).