It might make sense to make an ordinance's life also contingent on its pilot being alive, not just being in the same sector.

Thoughts?

I don't think I really want you placing umpteen million lightning mines in B8.

How about being alive AND being in the same sector?

doh! what denji said...

Um, why? This is serious.

Well that would fix mining stations..

That would depend on how it's implemented, Ara. For mining stations you usually dock at the station in question, in which case you are both alive and in sector. The only way it would stop mining of stations is if it required you to be in SPACE in the sector and alive, which would also preclude reloading in capships to keep your mines/missiles alive.

...which would make sense.

So, basically, mines only exist while a person is:

a) Alive

b) Launched

c) In the same sector as the mines.

Is that about right? So adding a/b?

That sounds about right. This would also make it so you couldn't dump several tubes of missiles at a target (like a levi), immediately dock and rearm, launch and do it again without most of your missiles disappearing. Which isn't really a bad thing, cos by the time you're doing that to a target its shields are down and it's only a matter of time.

This would also make it impossible to fire a set of cap-swarms, leave the turret, rejoin the turret, and fire again nearly instantly (which might be a bug that's been fixed, it's been awhile since I've tried it). Win on all sides!

OK. My original post painfully mediocre. My apologies.

Let me try again.

Smarter weapons (missiles, lmines) would exist only as long as the person is a) alive and b) launched c) in same sector, as inc said.

Other ammo based weapons (rockets, other mines, but not rails) should exist for some period (5 seconds?) after any of the above conditions are no longer satisfied? Maybe we still want to allow mutual kills. It seems like we should be consistent and impose the same restrictions on all 'smart' weapons, though.

All exploding weapons should blow up rather than simply disappear for immersion reasons.

Additional benefits include lessened confusion when someone's weapons continue haunting you after they have been killed; death to leave sector times vary between people...

Are we talking ordinances as in rules, or ordnance as in weaponry?

Wait...sorry, weapons...should have read more...

If a plane fires a missle or a sub launches an ICBM the lethalness of those weapons doesn't expire if the jet or sub are taken out. Should be the same here. If you enter a fight you fight until all threats are offline.

Hmmmm...on a little further thought I can see the logic in making weapons disappear if you leave a sector or if you go offline. In the real world mines remain a dnger for many years. But this is probably best NOT replicated in VO.

The life of ordinance could be longer, but the 'chase' feature of some guided missiles could understandably be disabled upon death of a pilot due to the fact that the missile was receiving data from the ship's guidance systems.

I can absolutely understand not making mines last 10-15 mins. That could get nasty very fast. But if a trader is running from a pirate, drops a mine and then jumps, it would make sense that the mine should remain intact for at least 1 min, even 3. This way the pirate would be required to navigate around it, shoot it, or fulfill it's intended purpose and be slowed by it.

Leave mines as they are, if anything make their life contingent only on their internal power (5-15mins). Lightning mines excel at denying the other team useable space, if you can only deploy a max of 8 then that ability is severely reduced, especially in skirmish situations. if you're worried about someone placing lots of mines in B8 then shoot out the mines as they are laid, it's very difficult to both defend and add to a field at the same time, especially without dying

Even if mines only relied on their internal power for life, a pilot having to go back to a station for each additional batch of mines means he won't get a terribly huge amount out before they start timing.

EDIT: As for mining stations, the guards actively shoot down mines, even due to the non FF of same nation, violating the NFZ marks you as temp KoS enabling the guards to shoot out your mines, which with large fields can result in very rapid perma KoSing denying you the ability to do such a thing again for the near future.

I've been thinking about this thread for a couple more days. Ordnance must have a VO life different from rl analogies.

In rl mines laid can kill for years. In VO a person should be able to jump into a sector and not worry that a mine laid last week, or even last night, by someone who voluntarily left the game, will kill him. Ordnance laid or deployed by someone killed in a battle should have a longer life but should not really last much longer than the battle. Ordnance deployed should pose a threat even to the deploying person. In rl pilots can be killed by their own missles if they errantly fly into it's path. Once killed a pilot's already laid or deployed ordnance should begin to expire quickly but not immediately. During a battle ordnance should have reasonable life and be a threat even to the deploying pilot. Ordnance deployed by a pilot should expire immediately if a pilot voluntarily quits or otherwise leaves the game, for instance, if an Internet connectionis lost. If you kill me after I have laid a mine you should have to beware that mine. If I quit just before you kill me to avoid death, the mines I laid or missles I fired should pose no threat. Even if my quitting wasn't intentional on my part, at my connection is lost.

Most mines in VO only last 5 minutes the exception are the Lightning mines which last a maximum of 15 minutes, less if they are active and dishing out damage. What I'm trying to say is do not make mines weaker by forcing the pilot to remain in space, docking with a capital ship or station should not wipe out any mines laid. If someone wants to deploy and maintain a massive mine field then let them, such feats require constant effort as once mines begin to time out the field dwindles rapidly.

Mining for LENBs are hard enough without having to re-lay every l-mine everytime you leave sector to repair or get killed (or conveniently /explode).

change how mine's work if you must... but don't make the LENB any harder to get than it already is (please :).

note: xkcd fans... note the unbalanced parenthesis.