Forums » Suggestions
We have /ignore so like, why do we need /vote mute? So players who don't like other players don't have to see people talking isn't that what /ignore is for?
This gang thingy that you guys seem to support don't work for me...
...if someone don't want to listen to me they can do /ignore yoda... /vote mute is soooooo armagetron (omg, what a bitchy community they have)....
just think about it John, with 1000+ players, even Mih can mute em with just a PM or an email, its wrong...
This gang thingy that you guys seem to support don't work for me...
...if someone don't want to listen to me they can do /ignore yoda... /vote mute is soooooo armagetron (omg, what a bitchy community they have)....
just think about it John, with 1000+ players, even Mih can mute em with just a PM or an email, its wrong...
Totally. But it is fun to have lynchings....
Sometimes :P
Sometimes :P
Because sometimes people are too offensive for even a /ignore. How about somebody who spams 100 with highly inappropriate messages so often that noobs can't even see responses to their questions. How does /ignore help them?
That's when they learn about the all important /ignore command.
Guides are supposed to be here for a reason.You cannot deny the abusability of the /mute command. Unless it is changed in some major way, it will be used for...well...
Vendettas.
Even if you can only /vote mute once a day, or a week, then it still won't work right. What if you make it so it takes a ton of people to /vote mute someone? Easy, you have a much harder time muting someone (it could take way too long, or not even be possible). If you have it scaled, people most likely still wouldn't be obliged to actually do the command.
And if it doesn't need too many people, large guilds will be able to abuse it, as well as random mobbing. You really can't fix it; On the internet, where people are anonymous, trust systems aren't really going to work that well.
Vendettas.
Even if you can only /vote mute once a day, or a week, then it still won't work right. What if you make it so it takes a ton of people to /vote mute someone? Easy, you have a much harder time muting someone (it could take way too long, or not even be possible). If you have it scaled, people most likely still wouldn't be obliged to actually do the command.
And if it doesn't need too many people, large guilds will be able to abuse it, as well as random mobbing. You really can't fix it; On the internet, where people are anonymous, trust systems aren't really going to work that well.
i don't see what wong with /vote mute
so far only people who spammed 100 with nonsense got muted...
with the exception of roda slane
so far only people who spammed 100 with nonsense got muted...
with the exception of roda slane
You haven't been around long enough. People have been muted because a group of players decided they were using 'lame' fighting tactics. People have been /vote muted because they were just playing around and literally asking for it, people have been /vote muted because the community frankly got annoyed with them.
I don't think the devs intended those things to happen when they implemented /vote mute.
I don't think the devs intended those things to happen when they implemented /vote mute.
hmmm ive been around for 3 years almost
does that mean that happened once three years ago if so then its not really an issue why bring it up now.
does that mean that happened once three years ago if so then its not really an issue why bring it up now.
zamzx, what are you talking about? Aside from the idiotic Arolte example (where the community behaved like a large group of dumb children), I can't think of many abuses of /vote mute. Most (if not all) of the people who've whined about getting unfairly muted were, in fact, abusing chat.
There was one such incident yesterday infact. I'm not going to bring up names cos all involved know who they are. But although the person that got muted may have deserved it THREE days ago, this mob could not get enough players together till yesterday, or some such, because what was being said by the muted player yesterday did not warrent a muting, and /ignore would have sufficed, but instead, cos he pee's off a few memebers of the community days ago, well, lynch mob time.
Hows would /vote mute help the newb that is being spammed with nonesense? /ignore works faster than vote mute, cos you don't neeed 30 people to let you ignore folk, and people do not start playing knowing about the /vote mute command either. A self policing community is great, as long as its stays that, and does not become a bunch of *vets* who decide who can rant and who cannot.
Hows would /vote mute help the newb that is being spammed with nonesense? /ignore works faster than vote mute, cos you don't neeed 30 people to let you ignore folk, and people do not start playing knowing about the /vote mute command either. A self policing community is great, as long as its stays that, and does not become a bunch of *vets* who decide who can rant and who cannot.
roguelazer, I'm thinking of several incidences, between now and since the feature was put into place. I seem to recall mobbing Bess, genka....hrm, I'm fairly certain I've been /vote muted at least once from people's own ideas, and once before because I was literally asking for it....And since I've been up all night, I can't remember any other times. But I _KNOW_ it's happened quite a bit more, I just can't remember specifics. Ask Miharu.
It's happened. And if you just think of the future, you should see it happening again as soon as the next batch of young children come in.
It's happened. And if you just think of the future, you should see it happening again as soon as the next batch of young children come in.
Let me ask you this? Whats the difference between 30 paying players typing /vote mute soso, and 30 paying players typing /ignore soso.
They aren't stopping him from playing the game socially if they /ignore him. If he is /muted, he won't be able to talk to any of his friends, or people off of 100. He basically loses his right to speak.
Aye, even PM's don't work, either it needs changing to "cannot talk on a public channel" or removing.
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Well, really the difference is that one ends with a comma, and one ends with a period, work that out :P
[edit 2]
Only one of my chars have ever been muted, and it was by a guide, so this is not personal, just a general feeling.
[edit 3]
Whats to stop a muted person creating a trial account to spout crap? NOTHING, it just encourages them.
[edit]
Well, really the difference is that one ends with a comma, and one ends with a period, work that out :P
[edit 2]
Only one of my chars have ever been muted, and it was by a guide, so this is not personal, just a general feeling.
[edit 3]
Whats to stop a muted person creating a trial account to spout crap? NOTHING, it just encourages them.
I think the best part about mutes is that being muted precludes you from seeing messages people try to send you.
PS:
I also think that this thread, while very in tune with my personal opinions on such things, is about as likely to have an effect on the devs as this one, since in the past their idea of improving the way the vote mute system meshes with the community has been dropping the number of votes required to mute someone from 20 to 30. (Apparently, like the rest of the universe, the angry mob system was designed with more players in mind.)
PS:
I also think that this thread, while very in tune with my personal opinions on such things, is about as likely to have an effect on the devs as this one, since in the past their idea of improving the way the vote mute system meshes with the community has been dropping the number of votes required to mute someone from 20 to 30. (Apparently, like the rest of the universe, the angry mob system was designed with more players in mind.)
Oh come on, genka, there was more to it than that.
Well, certainly better than the some-small-percentage-of-the-people-currently-online idea that was so unbearably heavily campaigned for by the "community."
I think you mean from 30 to 20 there, genky.
Math is hard.
First of all, the number of users required for a /mute was intended to scale with the online player count. So, I'm not terribly worried about the case with a thousand players online.
Secondly, there are already significant measures in place that prevent too many subscribed accounts which have characters that are members of the same guild, from contributing to a successful mute (whether that specific character is doing the muting or not). That was designed in from the beginning, although it wasn't implemented until later (still long ago).
The more valid question of "Why do we have /vote mute? Do we need it at all?" is not without merit. The general idea was to allow the userbase to self-police to some extent. If we wanted to supplant it entirely with /ignore, we would have to expand and improve /ignore significantly, to make it more accessible to new users (menu interface, etc etc). Something we need to do anyway, but has not been high on the priority list.
I guess the real question of whether /vote mute is useful or not comes down to the number of cases where it was applied justly, versus unjustly. I'm well aware that there are organized uses of it to fulfill various.. vendettas. In fact, I've been hip-deep in the private-email backlash of many of those excitingly unpleasant player disagreements. But determining, empirically, whether the ratio of good:bad is sufficient to keep it around would require some significant (and time-consuming) parsing of the logs. Something I could do, but I'm kind of busy trying to make the game not suck right now, and have it be marketable by summertime.
So, I guess, for the moment I leave this open to further input. I'm not against removing /vote mute entirely (with the possibility of re-implementing a more advanced version at some future point). I've certainly had my fill of people bitching to me about how such-and-such organized a vote mute against them, but they can't prove it, but they just KNOW it was them (and sometimes it was, but often it wasn't.. and instead was some other unrelated person who also hates them). It's all a big pain in my ass, and seems to result in increased player paranoia. So, please continue to weigh in and let me know what you think of vote mute, and if, in your time in game, it has been of benefit or otherwise.
There are other, somewhat similar, features that are slated for implementation. Such as the ability to report the actions of an individual to a guide interface, which then automatically parses selections of the recent log for the individual in question, and puts it all on a webpage for us guide-types to see. This kind of thing might help mitigate some issues, but it does not promise the kind of rapid action that a /vote mute allows. The user might get penalized later, when the issue was reviewed, but it wouldn't be immediately dealt with.
And no, we are not going to have an infinite number of guides who sit around all the time to determine who should be muted. So, keep that in mind in your deliberations. No matter the number of guides we have, down the line, or the tools we make available to report and communicate with them, there will *always* be times when you can't reach anyone, while someone is being a public nuisance. Is /ignore sufficient?
What's the common (beneficial) use-case, for that matter? If it's mostly unsubscribed newbies who are just being annoying for attention, we could have it only work against unsubscribed accounts.
Secondly, there are already significant measures in place that prevent too many subscribed accounts which have characters that are members of the same guild, from contributing to a successful mute (whether that specific character is doing the muting or not). That was designed in from the beginning, although it wasn't implemented until later (still long ago).
The more valid question of "Why do we have /vote mute? Do we need it at all?" is not without merit. The general idea was to allow the userbase to self-police to some extent. If we wanted to supplant it entirely with /ignore, we would have to expand and improve /ignore significantly, to make it more accessible to new users (menu interface, etc etc). Something we need to do anyway, but has not been high on the priority list.
I guess the real question of whether /vote mute is useful or not comes down to the number of cases where it was applied justly, versus unjustly. I'm well aware that there are organized uses of it to fulfill various.. vendettas. In fact, I've been hip-deep in the private-email backlash of many of those excitingly unpleasant player disagreements. But determining, empirically, whether the ratio of good:bad is sufficient to keep it around would require some significant (and time-consuming) parsing of the logs. Something I could do, but I'm kind of busy trying to make the game not suck right now, and have it be marketable by summertime.
So, I guess, for the moment I leave this open to further input. I'm not against removing /vote mute entirely (with the possibility of re-implementing a more advanced version at some future point). I've certainly had my fill of people bitching to me about how such-and-such organized a vote mute against them, but they can't prove it, but they just KNOW it was them (and sometimes it was, but often it wasn't.. and instead was some other unrelated person who also hates them). It's all a big pain in my ass, and seems to result in increased player paranoia. So, please continue to weigh in and let me know what you think of vote mute, and if, in your time in game, it has been of benefit or otherwise.
There are other, somewhat similar, features that are slated for implementation. Such as the ability to report the actions of an individual to a guide interface, which then automatically parses selections of the recent log for the individual in question, and puts it all on a webpage for us guide-types to see. This kind of thing might help mitigate some issues, but it does not promise the kind of rapid action that a /vote mute allows. The user might get penalized later, when the issue was reviewed, but it wouldn't be immediately dealt with.
And no, we are not going to have an infinite number of guides who sit around all the time to determine who should be muted. So, keep that in mind in your deliberations. No matter the number of guides we have, down the line, or the tools we make available to report and communicate with them, there will *always* be times when you can't reach anyone, while someone is being a public nuisance. Is /ignore sufficient?
What's the common (beneficial) use-case, for that matter? If it's mostly unsubscribed newbies who are just being annoying for attention, we could have it only work against unsubscribed accounts.